Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?

[Brietta]

The first expert witness for the state testified they were human bones from a forearm, hand and fingers, the second expert witness for the state testified they were human bones but were so degraded that no dna could be obtained. The expert witness called by the defence also said they were human bones but testified there was no way to tell if they were of male or female origin, as if its OK to have any human bones found in your house.
So with that in mind, how would you explain the human bones that were found?

In the expert human opinion human bones were found.

According to Morse - a cadaver dog trained only using human material - that is not the case.

Morse did not alert.  Dogs do not lie.

My money is on the remains found being either domestic or wild pig but we'll never know will we, for the simple reason no DNA was extracted either pig or human.

[Eleanor]

OK which evidence supplied during the trial made you reach the conclusion there was reasonable doubt that Hap killed his wife and burned the remains.

The Prosecution failed to prove their case.  That is a fact.

[Brietta]

OK which evidence supplied during the trial made you reach the conclusion there was reasonable doubt that Hap killed his wife and burned the remains.

I am not familiar with the case.  But it really doesn't matter what Eleanor thinks.  The only important opinion is that of the Court from which I take it he walked a free man.

[Icanhandlethetruth]

The Prosecution failed to prove their case.  That is a fact.

No, I know that, but I didn't understand how the jury reached their decision, you share their view so I would like to try and understand what the thought process was. It may give me a better perspective if someone were to explain to me how the evidence failed to convince the jury.

[Eleanor]

No, I know that, but I didn't understand how the jury reached their decision, you share their view so I would like to try and understand what the thought process was. It may give me a better perspective if someone were to explain to me how the evidence failed to convince the jury.

It was a conglomeration of careless investigating.

[Icanhandlethetruth]

I am not familiar with the case.  But it really doesn't matter what Eleanor thinks.  The only important opinion is that of the Court from which I take it he walked a free man.

If you believe courts and juries always reach the correct decision then I have news for you. Many a guilty person has been acquitted and many innocent people have spent decades behind bars.
Before everyone starts defending Hap just because Grime was involved giving evidence against him then spare a thought for the victim and her family, the evidence was overwhelming against Hap but he had the money to pay for a good legal defence. Money talks when it comes to justice especially in the USA.

[Icanhandlethetruth]

It was a conglomeration of careless investigating.

How so?

[Eleanor]

How so?

They found nothing to prove he had done it.  The dogs were irrelevant in my opinion.

[Brietta]

If you believe courts and juries always reach the correct decision then I have news for you. Many a guilty person has been acquitted and many innocent people have spent decades behind bars.
Before everyone starts defending Hap just because Grime was involved giving evidence against him then spare a thought for the victim and her family, the evidence was overwhelming against Hap but he had the money to pay for a good legal defence. Money talks when it comes to justice especially in the USA.

The thread title asks if dog alerts are evidence.  In themselves they are not and I think everyone is aware of that.

This is also the McCann board.

So hypothetically commenting about the dogs' performance in other cases is well on topic.  Going further and dissecting the minutiae of a particular case unrelated to Madeleine's in my opinion, is not.

[Icanhandlethetruth]

The thread title asks if dog alerts are evidence.  In themselves they are not and I think everyone is aware of that.

This is also the McCann board.

So hypothetically commenting about the dogs' performance in other cases is well on topic.  Going further and dissecting the minutiae of a particular case unrelated to Madeleine's in my opinion, is not.

Wrong if they are heard in open court they are evidence.
Well Misty brought this case up yesterday so take it up with her not me.

[Icanhandlethetruth]

They found nothing to prove he had done it.  The dogs were irrelevant in my opinion.

Let's pretend Martin Grime never showed up and no cadaver dog evidence was presented before court. Let's look at the evidence.

Hap was convicted the previous year of beating his wife to a point where medical treatment was needed.

During the hearings about a protection order Rabihan testified that Hap had threatened to kill her and dump her body in a river

Rabihan told her daughter that if she was found dead to look at Hap as the culprit.

The last contact Rabihan had with anyone apart from Hap was March 24th, Hap never reported Rabihan missing. Rabihan’s daughter did this in mid April.

Hap told Police he dropped off Rabihan at Trump plaza, Atlantic City on March 28th, but when CCTV was checked only Hap was visible in the car.

Rabihan never used any of her credit cards, casino accounts,paid any bills or renewed any documents after March 2012. No CCTV of Rabihan in Atlantic City.

When Rabihan’s daughter went to Haps house after she was missing and saw her mothers jewellery still at the house she knew her mother had died. Rabihan never went anywhere without her rings.

During a search of the house, blood belonging to Rabihan was found in the bedroom, a carving knife with Rabihan’s dna was found in the bedside cabinet and human remains were found in a box near the fireplace.

Neighbours reporting that the chimney at Haps house was smoking for 3 days constantly, this was reported as out of character.

During this same period the blinds were drawn all over the house and there were no comings or goings at all. Hap was usually very active coming and going from the house.

In the ten years since Rabihan went missing there has been no contact with her daughter with whom she shared a very close relationship.

No sightings of Rabihan anywhere in the world since March 2012. Its is very hard to just disappear of the face of the earth and still be alive these days, IMO

[The General]

Let's pretend Martin Grime never showed up and no cadaver dog evidence was presented before court. Let's look at the evidence.

Hap was convicted the previous year of beating his wife to a point where medical treatment was needed.

During the hearings about a protection order Rabihan testified that Hap had threatened to kill her and dump her body in a river

Rabihan told her daughter that if she was found dead to look at Hap as the culprit.

The last contact Rabihan had with anyone apart from Hap was March 24th, Hap never reported Rabihan missing. Rabihan’s daughter did this in mid April.

Hap told Police he dropped off Rabihan at Trump plaza, Atlantic City on March 28th, but when CCTV was checked only Hap was visible in the car.

Rabihan never used any of her credit cards, casino accounts,paid any bills or renewed any documents after March 2012. No CCTV of Rabihan in Atlantic City.

When Rabihan’s daughter went to Haps house after she was missing and saw her mothers jewellery still at the house she knew her mother had died. Rabihan never went anywhere without her rings.

During a search of the house, blood belonging to Rabihan was found in the bedroom, a carving knife with Rabihan’s dna was found in the bedside cabinet and human remains were found in a box near the fireplace.

Neighbours reporting that the chimney at Haps house was smoking for 3 days constantly, this was reported as out of character.

During this same period the blinds were drawn all over the house and there were no comings or goings at all. Hap was usually very active coming and going from the house.

In the ten years since Rabihan went missing there has been no contact with her daughter with whom she shared a very close relationship.

No sightings of Rabihan anywhere in the world since March 2012. Its is very hard to just disappear of the face of the earth and still be alive these days, IMO

Yeh, but apart from that.....?

[Icanhandlethetruth]

Yeh, but apart from that.....?

Well, the cadaver dog alerts on an axe, the centre of the basement, first and second-floor bathrooms, plumbing access panels and on a wool mask beneath a safe in an office. Buts let not mention them, you know how folks get.

[Eleanor]

Okay.  No search was made for her outside of America.  Interpol weren't informed and no attention paid to Kerzakistan?  from whence she came.

The lady who tested the burning of never went anywhere near the real fireplace and based her assumptions on any other old fireplace that might have been similar.

Temperatures could only have been half of those in an incinerator.

The chimney only smoked for three days.

The box of bones was left by the fireplace.  Very careless.  But only a few of them, apparently.

The Dogs.  Irrelevant.  You need more than that.  And they didn't alert to the fireplace itself.

The Prosecution failed to prove it's case.

[Brietta]

Wrong if they are heard in open court they are evidence.
Well Misty brought this case up yesterday so take it up with her not me.

Check it out!  https://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11174.msg679921#msg679921

Misty's post is bang on topic as it refers to dogs and evidence.

You are now deflecting from topic because you have expanded from the discussion on dogs and evidence into discussion of the full case.

I'm sorry you don't seem to be aware of that and I am sorry you are so dismissive of my post.