Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?

[Icanhandlethetruth]

Its not a matter of belief its a matter of evidence and there is next to nothing to support cadaver dog alerts

If it is heard in court it is evidence.

[Mr Gray]

If it is heard in court it is evidence.

There is next to nothing to support the validity of the alerts.. Fact. The fact they have been admitted in a tiny number of cases doesn't change that

[Icanhandlethetruth]

There is next to nothing to support the validity of the alerts.. Fact. The fact they have been admitted in a tiny number of cases doesn't change that

I repeat

If it is heard in court it is evidence.

[Mr Gray]

I repeat

If it is heard in court it is evidence.

So is any statement whether its true or not.. The fact its evidence gives it no credibility as to its validity. If Kate was called as a witness... And she said the window was open.. That is evidence... Despite there being nothing else to support it

[Wonderfulspam]

Yes sorry Misty I didn't mean to throw you under the bus or dob on you to the higher powers I just thought I would point it out.
I do enjoy engaging you in discussion because its always well thought out, reasoned and never gets nasty. Two people can have differing views and still remain civil I believe.
I don't think Grimes alerts added too much to the mixture but I still believe the evidence was strong enough even without the alerts to gain a conviction. I should point out that all 3 expert witnesses including one for the defence testified that the remains were human, I have no idea long it would take to burn a body but maybe 3 days is enough.

Doing it in a home fireplace is ineffective. Chandler Halderson tried sawing his parents into manageable pieces & burning them in the home fireplace, but it didn't get hot enough, needs lots of chemicals & oxygen pumped in to really get the temperature up. He tried putting a fan in front of the fireplace, it burned a little better but it still wasn't enough, so he gave up & resorted to scattering their remains around the countryside. All they ever found of his mother were her thighs.

[Icanhandlethetruth]

So is any statement whether its true or not.. The fact its evidence gives it no credibility as to its validity. If Kate was called as a witness... And she said the window was open.. That is evidence... Despite there being nothing else to support it

The penny has finally dropped.
If Kate was called as a witness to testify in court of law it would indeed be evidence, the jury would then decide its worth.
If dog alerts are heard in a court of law then they are evidence. The jury would decide their worth.
We are finally there.

[Icanhandlethetruth]

Doing it in a home fireplace is ineffective. Chandler Halderson tried sawing his parents into manageable pieces & burning them in the home fireplace, but it didn't get hot enough, needs lots of chemicals & oxygen pumped in to really get the temperature up. He tried putting a fan in front of the fireplace, it burned a little better but it still wasn't enough, so he gave up & resorted to scattering their remains around the countryside. All they ever found of his mother were her thighs.

I wouldn't know, maybe Hap was better than Chandler who knows. All I know is 3 expert witness identified human bones in the home of a woman who disappeared never to be seen again.

[Mr Gray]

The penny has finally dropped.
If Kate was called as a witness to testify in court of law it would indeed be evidence, the jury would then decide its worth.
If dog alerts are heard in a court of law then they are evidence. The jury would decide their worth.
We are finally there.

It must have finally dropped with you.... I understood that from the beginning

[Icanhandlethetruth]

It must have finally dropped with you.... I understood that from the beginning

You mean you always understood that dog alerts were evidence?
Read back this thread you have spent years repeated the mantra dog alerts are not evidence.
Now you say you always believed they were evidence after all.

[Mr Gray]

You mean you always understood that dog alerts were evidence?
Read back this thread you have spent years repeated the mantra dog alerts are not evidence.
Now you say you always believed they were evidence after all.

You would need to define what you mean by evidence... Evidential value.. Evidential reliability.
In the MM case the alerts do not support the premise Maddie died in the apartment.and are therefore not evidence of death. If I say I saw a ghost last night... Is that evidence a ghost exists.
You are looking at things simplistically.

[Wonderfulspam]

I wouldn't know, maybe Hap was better than Chandler who knows. All I know is 3 expert witness identified human bones in the home of a woman who disappeared never to be seen again.

I believe Mark Bridger burned some & scattered or buried the rest.
Anyway, when I need to get rid of a body I'm trying the Corrie Mckeague method.
I reckon it's probably a 50/50 shot but in desperation I'd be willing to take them odds.

[Icanhandlethetruth]

You would need to define what you mean by evidence... Evidential value.. Evidential reliability.
In the MM case the alerts do not support the premise Maddie died in the apartment.and are therefore not evidence of death. If I say I saw a ghost last night... Is that evidence a ghost exists.
You are looking at things simplistically.

The definition of evidence is not vague

"the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid."

If a dog handler testifies that his dog alerted to what he was trained to find this is evidence just as a witness may claim a window was open, or a handwriting expert testifies that in his belief the letter was written by so and so

Why in the MM case do the alerts not support the premise that Maddie died in the apartment?

You are looking at things simplistically.

[Icanhandlethetruth]

I believe Mark Bridger burned some & scattered or buried the rest.
Anyway, when I need to get rid of a body I'm trying the Corrie Mckeague method.
I reckon it's probably a 50/50 shot but in desperation I'd be willing to take them odds.

Yea maybe thats what Hap did.

Agreed a body in a landfill is gone.

[Mr Gray]

You mean you always understood that dog alerts were evidence?
Read back this thread you have spent years repeated the mantra dog alerts are not evidence.
Now you say you always believed they were evidence after all.

As you claim I've repeated a mantra could you provide some cites. It's Grime and Harrison who said they had no evidential reliability or value

[Wonderfulspam]

Yea maybe thats what Hap did.

Agreed a body in a landfill is gone.

Very, very difficult to find in the least.
Possibility of it being incinerated unnoticed even, which may have happened to Corrie.
The inquest has shown that which I've mentioned often, bin men generally aren't in the habit of checking a bins contents before tipping it in.

But if anyone paid attention to US news recently, thank god there were some dumpter divers who did take an active interest in garbage.

Baby in bin: Alexis Avila pleads not guilty to child abuse and attempted murder after newborn found in waste container in New Mexico

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hxk2jHUgxM