Did the PJ do a reconstitution after Joana Cipriano disappeared?

[Anna]

Thanks Anna, do you have a link to the original?

Sorry for delay carana, I have visitors. Will this do?

29 sep 2004 CM wed

with the authorities provided that, at the time of reconstitution of crime (on Saturday), if his countenance fell to confess their participation in assaults on the child.
Due to these declarations, the man returned to be arrested, having appeared then in the reconstitution of murder (the house where they will be given the crime) its proponent officious, Sara Rosado. After a conversation with the lawyer John Cyprian have opted for silence.
The CM has succeeded yesterday contact the advocate of the alleged co-author of the murder of the young girl, which however also mentioned the secret of Justice not to make any statements. The same argument outside, incidentally, used the day before by John sheffield Pacheco, defender officiously of mother of joananna.

http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/detalhe/noticias/nacional/atualidade/mae-de-joana-recebe-assistencia-no-hospital-de-faro

[John]

- When did this "come clean" issue first arise?

Leonor Cipriano makes a new statement about the killing of Joana.
16 January 2009

Leonor Cipriano, mother of the seven-year-old girl missing from the village of Figueira, Portimão on the 12 September 2004, decided to reveal how her daughter was killed by her uncle João (John) Cipriano.

According to the witness, João Cipriano, convinced his sister Leonor to deliver her daughter to the care of persons outside the family, in exchange for a monetary amount.  The delivery did not go as planned, and resulted in the murder of Joana by her uncle.

Leonor Cipriano appeals for information about her daughter Joana after her disappearance.

The witnesses statement, documented and signed by Leonor, who is serving time for murder and concealment of the body of her daughter in Beja prison, was delivered this Friday to the Court of Faro, her lawyer Marcos Aragão Correia reported to the CM.

This afternoon, Marcos Aragão Correia, accompanied by the stepfather of Joana, Leandro da Silva, will make a statement at the door of the Court of Faro.

This is not the first time that Leonor's brother has been accused of killing her daughter.  During investigations, Joana's mother told the inspectors of the Judicial Police (PJ) that the girl's death would have resulted from a slap given by João Cipriano.  But during the trial, Leonor changed version, denying the accusation.

Marcos Aragão Correia defends Leonor in the case of the alleged assaults that claims to have been the target by PJ inspectors, whose trial resumes this Friday at the Court of Faro.

www.cmjornal.xl.pt/detalhe/noticias/nacional/portugal/leonor-acusa-joao-cipriano-de-matar-joana


www.miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3343.msg127258#msg127258

[Carana]

Thanks John, but that trial was years after the Supreme Court ruling on the murder case. And what I'm questioning is the logic of the SC ruling (on here and on the other thread).

[Carana]

Sorry for delay carana, I have visitors. Will this do?

29 sep 2004 CM wed

with the authorities provided that, at the time of reconstitution of crime (on Saturday), if his countenance fell to confess their participation in assaults on the child.
Due to these declarations, the man returned to be arrested, having appeared then in the reconstitution of murder (the house where they will be given the crime) its proponent officious, Sara Rosado. After a conversation with the lawyer John Cyprian have opted for silence.
The CM has succeeded yesterday contact the advocate of the alleged co-author of the murder of the young girl, which however also mentioned the secret of Justice not to make any statements. The same argument outside, incidentally, used the day before by John sheffield Pacheco, defender officiously of mother of joananna.

http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/detalhe/noticias/nacional/atualidade/mae-de-joana-recebe-assistencia-no-hospital-de-faro

Hi Anna. Thanks, but the date of this recon still isn't clear to me. The link is dead, but the title refers to her being taken to Faro hospital (which never happened, but never mind). She WAS taken the the Odemira infirmary, but that was in October.

[Carana]

Ahhh. I think I've found a reliable source as to the date (Helena Machado).


7 October 04 - reconstruction
A 7 de Outubro de 2004, a Polícia Judiciária
leva o tio da criança a fazer uma reconstituição do crime, onde este, sendo filmado, explica detalhadamente
como a criança morreu e o seu cadáver foi cortado.
http://www.aps.pt/vicongresso/pdfs/700.pdf

Then...

15 Oct (a Friday) - Cadroso & another (unidentified) PJ officer take Leonor to Odemira prison's health centre at around 6 am (not clear but presumably time of arrival), where certain injuries were noted. She went back to prison at around 7 am.

18. Cerca das 6.00 horas da manhã do dia 15, o arguido António Fernando Nunes Cardoso e outro agente da Polícia Judiciária cuja identidade não foi possível apurar, que conduziam a Leonor Maria Domingos Cipriano ao Estabelecimento Prisional de Odemira, apresentaram-na no Centro de Saúde
Processo no 1503/04.3TAFAR 8
de Odemira onde, consultada pelo médico de serviço, este constatou que ela “apresentava edema traumático e hematomas já organizados e atingindo toda a área facial-frontal e temporal direita, edema palpebral grande, que lhe ocasiona o fecho total á direita”;

SC -ruling.

[Anna]

Hi Anna. Thanks, but the date of this recon still isn't clear to me. The link is dead, but the title refers to her being taken to Faro hospital (which never happened, but never mind). She WAS taken the the Odemira infirmary, but that was in October.

A lot of the articles have been deleted for some reason.
Leonor did go the hospital in sept before the time in October and a reconstruct of questioning neighbours in figueira did happen in early October. However the butchering video was in September and Leonor also went to hospital around that time whilst being interrogated. It was dismissed as monthly ailment.

29 sep 2004 CM wed

The mother of joana, Leonor Cipriano, will have already been assisted twice District Hospital of Faro (HDF), provided that, on Saturday 24.25, it was decreed to preventive detention, second found the CM from hospital sources.

The woman, accused of killing her own daughter and is now awaiting trial in Prison of Odemira, presented complaints of stomach pains. The clinical director of HDF and the Prison Services only confirm, however, a trip to the hospital.
According to hospital sources, Leonor Maria Domingos Cipriano, 33 years of age, was conducted to the HDF in monday 27th and again yesterday. The woman would submit complaints of "strong pain in the belly" and have been subject to medical examinations to determine the reason of sorrows. On the day of yesterday, Leonor Cipriano have remained under observation at least up to the middle of the afternoon.
For its part, the clinical director of HDF, Larguito Clear, confirms the movement of Leonor Cipriano to hospital on Monday 27th sep, but belies his comeback in day yesterday. According to this responsibility, the mother of joana was assisted on Monday night: "She gave entry by 20h25 and left shortly after".
As part of the Prison Service, the information transmitted to the CM was similar to the clinical director of HDF, i.e. the mother of joana was only conducted at the hospital on Monday, after having said that she felt bad. After being assisted, the woman returned to the prison of Odemira, where she is to be accompanied by a doctor.
Leonor Cipriano is under detention since last Saturday, by determination of the judge of the criminal Court of instruction Portimao Ana Soares.
The woman is awaiting trial in Prison of Odemira - the only female prison existing in the South of the Country -, under special security measures, being avoided in particular the contact with the other female inmates. The care taken by Prison Services result from the fact that in prisons who practice crimes against children are accustomed be poorly received by other inmates.
UNCLE CHOOSES THE MUTE
The uncle of joana, John Cyprian, will have passed to adopt a cautious stance and nothing cooperative with the authorities provided that, at the time of reconstitution of crime (on Saturday), if his countenance fell to confess their participation in assaults on the child.
Due to these declarations, the man returned to be arrested, having appeared then in the reconstitution of murder (the house where they will be given the crime) its proponent officious, Sara Rosado. After a conversation with the lawyer John Cyprian have opted for silence.
The CM has succeeded yesterday contact the advocate of the alleged co-author of the murder of the young girl, which however also mentioned the secret of Justice not to make any statements. The same argument outside, incidentally, used the day before by John sheffield Pacheco, defender officiously of mother of joananna.

http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/detalhe/noticias/nacional/atualidade/mae-de-joana-recebe-assistencia-no-hospital-de-faro

[Carana]

That's what I was wondering about... this "reconstruction" happened weeks after waving a black torch around.

So... let's see.

A) Someone spontaneously confesses and you go to check whether there is any evidence to corroborate whether there is any substance to it

or

B)  You flash a black torch, note fluorescent patches, including by a light switch, find the odd speck of unidentifiable and undated blood, decide on a theoretical scenario,  and then by total coincidence your prime suspect spontaneously confesses while being treated to coffee and biscuits.

Hmmm.

Personally, I'd have had a bit more confidence in A.

[John]

Thanks John, but that trial was years after the Supreme Court ruling on the murder case. And what I'm questioning is the logic of the SC ruling (on here and on the other thread).

I thought you wanted to know what Leonor was now claiming since you appear to believe her innocent of something?

[Carana]

A lot of the articles have been deleted for some reason.
Leonor did go the hospital in sept before the time in October and a reconstruct of questioning neighbours in figueira did happen in early October. However the butchering video was in September and Leonor also went to hospital around that time whilst being interrogated. It was dismissed as monthly ailment.

29 sep 2004 CM wed

The mother of joana, Leonor Cipriano, will have already been assisted twice District Hospital of Faro (HDF), provided that, on Saturday 24.25, it was decreed to preventive detention, second found the CM from hospital sources.

The woman, accused of killing her own daughter and is now awaiting trial in Prison of Odemira, presented complaints of stomach pains. The clinical director of HDF and the Prison Services only confirm, however, a trip to the hospital.
According to hospital sources, Leonor Maria Domingos Cipriano, 33 years of age, was conducted to the HDF in monday 27th and again yesterday. The woman would submit complaints of "strong pain in the belly" and have been subject to medical examinations to determine the reason of sorrows. On the day of yesterday, Leonor Cipriano have remained under observation at least up to the middle of the afternoon.
For its part, the clinical director of HDF, Larguito Clear, confirms the movement of Leonor Cipriano to hospital on Monday 27th sep, but belies his comeback in day yesterday. According to this responsibility, the mother of joana was assisted on Monday night: "She gave entry by 20h25 and left shortly after".
As part of the Prison Service, the information transmitted to the CM was similar to the clinical director of HDF, i.e. the mother of joana was only conducted at the hospital on Monday, after having said that she felt bad. After being assisted, the woman returned to the prison of Odemira, where she is to be accompanied by a doctor.
Leonor Cipriano is under detention since last Saturday, by determination of the judge of the criminal Court of instruction Portimao Ana Soares.
The woman is awaiting trial in Prison of Odemira - the only female prison existing in the South of the Country -, under special security measures, being avoided in particular the contact with the other female inmates. The care taken by Prison Services result from the fact that in prisons who practice crimes against children are accustomed be poorly received by other inmates.
UNCLE CHOOSES THE MUTE
The uncle of joana, John Cyprian, will have passed to adopt a cautious stance and nothing cooperative with the authorities provided that, at the time of reconstitution of crime (on Saturday), if his countenance fell to confess their participation in assaults on the child.
Due to these declarations, the man returned to be arrested, having appeared then in the reconstitution of murder (the house where they will be given the crime) its proponent officious, Sara Rosado. After a conversation with the lawyer John Cyprian have opted for silence.
The CM has succeeded yesterday contact the advocate of the alleged co-author of the murder of the young girl, which however also mentioned the secret of Justice not to make any statements. The same argument outside, incidentally, used the day before by John sheffield Pacheco, defender officiously of mother of joananna.

http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/detalhe/noticias/nacional/atualidade/mae-de-joana-recebe-assistencia-no-hospital-de-faro

That's interesting, Anna. Was she taken to Faro hospital in September before the slippery PJ stairs in October, then?

[Carana]

I thought you wanted to know what Leonor was now claiming since you appear to believe her innocent of something?

I was originally replying to one of your posts.

I'm not taking much notice of the new (unsubstantiated) "confessions" in the torture trial. I accept that she was tortured while in PJ custody and that she couldn't identify who the officers were. So did the the court and the PJ disciplinary unit way before the trial.

Beyond that, I have doubts... Correia admitted that he'd tricked João into signing a confession note with some strange story that nasty people were going to murder him if he didn't. Or something.

I don't know whether Leonor's confession was spontaneous or whether someone advised her to invent a story in the hope of reducing her sentence to roughly the term she'd already served. As her lawyer, Correia should have known that the court wouldn't accept these new "confessions" anyway, and should have advised her against it, so I've no idea what he was playing at.

[Carana]

The CdaM link still doesn't work....

[Anna]

That's interesting, Anna. Was she taken to Faro hospital in September before the slippery PJ stairs in October, then?

Yep.
We have discussed it on here already. I will see if I can find it.

How could the press articles(now deleted for some strange reason) have known about the reconstitution in their  29th and 30th sept editions if it hadn't yet happened?

There is an article in DN now that gives that date in October as a date that PJ were going to reconstruct the crime by talking to neighbours/witnesses in the village. There seems to be a bit of confusion there to say the least.

[Anna]

That's interesting, Anna. Was she taken to Faro hospital in September before the slippery PJ stairs in October, then?

Link as promised, Carana. ... re Leonor hospital
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2977.msg123753#msg123753

                                    The links to the articles with the date as "25th sept have all been banished. I will look elsewhere though.

[Carana]

Link as promised, Carana. ... re Leonor hospital
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2977.msg123753#msg123753

                                    The links to the articles with the date as "25th sept have all been banished. I will look elsewhere though.

Well done, Anna. For some reason one of the links works, so copying it before it disappears:

30.09.2004 00:00 LEONOR ALEGOU TER SIDO AGREDIDA PELA PJ A mãe de Joana acusou, segunda-feira, os inspectores da Polícia Judiciária (PJ) de a terem coagido fisicamente para obrigá-la a confessar o crime. A versão, forjada pela mulher ao ser surpreendida a sangrar por um dos elementos da Secção Regional de Combate ao Banditismo (SRCB) que a interrogava, levou a que desse entrada cerca das 20h25 no Hospital Distrital de Faro (HDF). Naquela unidade de saúde as hemorragias e dores abdominais provocadas por “alegadas lesões internas” resultantes das ditas agressões policiais de que disse ter sido vítima, foram desmascaradas pelos exames médicos:as manchas de sangue detectadas na cadeira onde se sentara nessa tarde, eram simplesmente vestígios do fluxo menstrual. Um pormenor que escapou na altura ao inspector da PJ que a interrogava, mas foi de imediato aproveitado pela mulher. Bastaram poucos segundos para Leonor engendrar o plano que lhe permitiu ser conduzida ao HDF e escapar por algumas horas à pressão dos interrogatórios a que tem estado sujeita diariamente desde a sua detenção. Submetida a exames médicos a mulher acabaria por ser reconduzida à Directoria da PJ, que prossegue diligências de investigação em várias direcções no sentido de localizar o corpo da pequena Joana. O CM apurou que, quando confrontada pelo inspector quanto à origem das manchas de sangue deixadas na cadeira, Leonor Cipriano começou por simular um mal-estar e dores abdominais, alegadamente resultantes de lesões internas que teriam sido provocadas pela coacção física de que fora vítima por parte dos investigadores no intuito de a fazer falar. “Bateram-me e deram-me socos na barriga para me obrigar a falar”, gritou Leonor Cipriano contorcendo o corpo à frente do atónito inspector. Perante os factos e sem argumentos, o investigador solicitou então que conduzissem a suspeita ao HDF, onde os exames médicos a que foi submetida revelaram a mentira e uma verdade: Leonor Cipriano estava nos “dias difíceis” e não se prevenira para essa eventualidade antes de ser transportada do Estabelecimento Prisional de Odemira, onde se encontra sob prisão preventiva, para a PJ de Faro. Um percurso feito diariamente pela detida desde que recolheu à cadeia, no dia 23, por decisão da juíza de instrução criminal do Tribunal de Portimão. Principal suspeita do homicídio da filha, praticado no dia 12 de Setembro, Leonor Cipriano continua a ser interrogada pelos inspectores da SRCB da PJ de Faro que, apesar das intensas buscas realizadas na Figueira e noutros pontos da região, não conseguiram localizar o cadáver da menor. Apesar de confessarem o crime, tanto a mulher como o irmão, João Cipriano, têm ocultado o local onde depositaram o corpo, na tentativa de escaparem a uma condenação. NELSON GARANTE ESTAR INOCENTE Nelson Cipriano, o tio de Joana que fora acusado pelo irmão João de ter facultado o seu carro para transporte do corpo da menina, afirma ter sido já informado que os exames periciais realizados ao veículo pela PJ provam que “não teve qualquer envolvimento no caso, tal como sempre havia dito”. O carro, um Seat Ibiza, de cor branca, foi levado pelos inspectores encarregues do caso Joana no passado domingo, de forma a ser sujeito a rigorosos exames. A PJ terá garantido a Nelson que o automóvel seria devolvido ontem, mas o CM apurou que até ao início da noite isso ainda não tinha acontecido. De acordo com Nelson Cipriano, os resultados irão demonstrar que está completamente inocente em relação a este caso, esperando desta forma que “as pessoas deixem de falar mal nas minhas costas”. Este irmão dos dois suspeitos da morte de Joana confessa que viveu “dias muito complicados”, devido às suspeitas lançadas contra ele por João Cipriano. Nelson revela, por outro lado, que “ainda não consegue acreditar que eles tenham matado a menina”, até porque “o corpo continua sem aparecer”. Apesar de não saber o que se passou, o irmão dos suspeitos inclina-se mais para a possibilidade da sobrinha “ter sido vendida”, adiantando que Leonor (a mãe de Joana) e João (o tio) “nunca tiveram muito dinheiro e talvez tenham cedido à tentação...” O referido familiar salienta que só soube do desaparecimento de Joana três dias depois do sucedido, quando estava no café e viu a notícia sobre a sua sobrinha no Correio da Manhã. Nessa altura, Nelson, que diz ter ficado em estado de choque, dirigiu-se à casa da irmã, na aldeia da Figueira, a qual lhe disse que “a Joana teria sido raptada”.

Ler mais em: http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/nacional/portugal/detalhe/leonor-alegou-ter-sido-agredida-pela-pj.html

[Carana]

Naquela unidade de saúde as hemorragias e dores abdominais provocadas por “alegadas lesões internas” resultantes das ditas agressões policiais de que disse ter sido vítima, foram desmascaradas pelos exames médicos:as manchas de sangue detectadas na cadeira onde se sentara nessa tarde, eram simplesmente vestígios do fluxo menstrual.


Erm... this is CdaM after all. She was taken to hospital complaining of alleged internal lesions due to police conduct, but medical examinations showed that the seat she'd been on simply showed traces of menstrual flow.

Really? Do interrogation chairs normally get taken to hospital for medical analysis?




Note to self: The dates need to be worked out. She was taken to Faro on the Monday (supposedly), but when was the interrogation that led to this initial supposed confession? It's feasible that the pain got progressively worse and was taken a day or two later. Or are the dates wrong in the article?

Where is there any mention of the medical report on that in the ruling?