Author Topic: Amaral's body in a fridge theory common to both Joana and Madeleine?  (Read 28856 times)

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Aiofe

  • Guest
Re: Amaral's body in a fridge theory common to both Joana and Madeleine?
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2013, 12:16:28 PM »
Jeez not Cipriano again lol....

Does it matter it is of little importance surely. One is completed case the perbs are in prison...

The other case well its still work in progress..

The fridge in 5A was hardly big enough to get a body in. Why put a body in a fridge anyway you just have to put the body in sand, say in a sealed box or suitcase...cover it with a cloth, shut the lid and leave it tight. The body will mummify and will not let out odour....

Simple really and is cheaper to run too as you dont need to keep the electricity on.... 8((()*/

The point is that Amaral used a fridge as an explanatory device in both cases- why and with what evidence was it used with Madeleine?

Offline Carana

Re: Amaral's body in a fridge theory common to both Joana and Madeleine?
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2013, 12:20:14 PM »
It's not clear to me what this "arca" actually was, nor how big. A domestic refrigeration unit of some type. Fridge? Freezer? Combination? Big? Small?

Offline Benice

Re: Amaral's body in a fridge theory common to both Joana and Madeleine?
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2013, 12:23:04 PM »
I would imagine it was a standard size fridge ...and freezer compartment  ...it was said the fridge in 5a was broke and Gerry took it to tip ...not sure if it was made up myth or true  ....will have to look it up ....

I just find it strange that amaral uses the same theory for both missing girls both cut up and kept in a fridge ...with no proof ... >@@(*&)

Yes - I also tend to think it was a standard fridge with a freezer compartment in 5A.    I believe it's a myth that Gerry took a fridge from 5A to the tip - as he had no car.    If the fridge in 5a had broken or been replaced - or disappeared - then surely that would be mentioned somewhere in the Witness statements.







The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline Carana

Re: Amaral's body in a fridge theory common to both Joana and Madeleine?
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2013, 12:24:32 PM »
The point is that Amaral used a fridge as an explanatory device in both cases- why and with what evidence was it used with Madeleine?

I'm trying to find one of his articles/interviews which may provide a clue. From memory, it was that a potential explanation for inconclusive or partial DNA results could be due to freezing.

Offline Benice

Re: Amaral's body in a fridge theory common to both Joana and Madeleine?
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2013, 12:31:23 PM »
Jeez not Cipriano again lol....

Does it matter it is of little importance surely. One is completed case the perbs are in prison...

The other case well its still work in progress..

The fridge in 5A was hardly big enough to get a body in. Why put a body in a fridge anyway you just have to put the body in sand, say in a sealed box or suitcase...cover it with a cloth, shut the lid and leave it tight. The body will mummify and will not let out odour....

Simple really and is cheaper to run too as you dont need to keep the electricity on.... 8((()*/

Amaral would disgree with you as the  ...'body kept in a fridge'... was his theory - not ours.

The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline Benice

Re: Amaral's body in a fridge theory common to both Joana and Madeleine?
« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2013, 12:34:03 PM »
I'm trying to find one of his articles/interviews which may provide a clue. From memory, it was that a potential explanation for inconclusive or partial DNA results could be due to freezing.

I did wonder about that Carana  - but have no idea whether freezing would preserve it or destroy it.
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline John

Re: Amaral's body in a fridge theory common to both Joana and Madeleine?
« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2013, 12:34:13 PM »
From the Supreme Court document:

Murder of Joana Cipriano.

These are, according to the initial trial, the facts that were proved in court, and those that were not:

"II. FUNDAMENTATION

9. Matter of fact according to the appealed court

9. 1. Facts considered to be proved:


aj) the arguidos then decided, conjointly, to cut the minor’s body in order to make it possible to store it in the deep freezer that existed in the living room;

 al) to pursue that purpose, the arguidos provided themselves with a knife and a metal-cutting saw that were available inside the house, instruments that were apt to obtain the results that they intended, within approximately 30 minutes;

 am) with said instruments, helping each other, the arguidos cut CC’s body, separating the head from the torso and cutting the legs at the knee area;

 an) each one of those body parts was placed inside plastic bags – the head in one, the torso and part of the legs in another and the two legs below the knee in a third one – and after they knotted up the opening of the bag that contained the head, they tried, at least, to place said bags inside the deep freezer’s three compartments, leaving blood from the minor on several areas inside the deep freezer’s second drawer;

 ao) the arguidos did not place the shoes that the minor was wearing, inside the bags, and all the pairs of shoes that the minor was using that summer, stayed inside the house;

9. 2. Facts considered not to be proved:

20- that the arguidos knotted the opening of the bags that contained the torso and the legs;

 21- that the arguidos effectively placed the three bags inside the tree compartments of the deep freezer;

www.joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/07/supreme-court-of-justice-joana-case.html
« Last Edit: November 05, 2013, 12:47:24 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Carana

Re: Amaral's body in a fridge theory common to both Joana and Madeleine?
« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2013, 12:42:54 PM »
From the Supreme Court document:

Murder of Joana Cipriano.

aj) the arguidos then decided, conjointly, to cut the minor’s body in order to make it possible to store it in the deep freezer that existed in the living room;

 al) to pursue that purpose, the arguidos provided themselves with a knife and a metal-cutting saw that were available inside the house, instruments that were apt to obtain the results that they intended, within approximately 30 minutes;

 am) with said instruments, helping each other, the arguidos cut CC’s body, separating the head from the torso and cutting the legs at the knee area;

 an) each one of those body parts was placed inside plastic bags – the head in one, the torso and part of the legs in another and the two legs below the knee in a third one – and after they knotted up the opening of the bag that contained the head, they tried, at least, to place said bags inside the deep freezer’s three compartments, leaving blood from the minor on several areas inside the deep freezer’s second drawer;

 ao) the arguidos did not place the shoes that the minor was wearing, inside the bags, and all the pairs of shoes that the minor was using that summer, stayed inside the house;

I'm aware of that, John. But that's based on the brother's "reconstruction". What were the circumstances surrounding it? Was the interrogation leading up to it filmed?

Cariad

  • Guest
Re: Amaral's body in a fridge theory common to both Joana and Madeleine?
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2013, 12:43:25 PM »
Yes - I also tend to think it was a standard fridge with a freezer compartment in 5A.    I believe it's a myth that Gerry took a fridge from 5A to the tip - as he had no car.    If the fridge in 5a had broken or been replaced - or disappeared - then surely that would be mentioned somewhere in the Witness statements.

I believe that the fridge was from the second apartment the mccanns stayed in, not in the holiday complex, the one from July to September or whatever it was.

As to whether its a myth or not, I haven't a clue! Apparently it was something that Gerry Mccann mentioned in his blog. I've never looked in to it myself.

It seems unlikely that someone would  replace a broken fridge in a rental apartment to me though.


Offline Carana

Re: Amaral's body in a fridge theory common to both Joana and Madeleine?
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2013, 12:47:08 PM »
I believe that the fridge was from the second apartment the mccanns stayed in, not in the holiday complex, the one from July to September or whatever it was.

As to whether its a myth or not, I haven't a clue! Apparently it was something that Gerry Mccann mentioned in his blog. I've never looked in to it myself.

It seems unlikely that someone would  replace a broken fridge in a rental apartment to me though.

Pamalam kept a record of all of Gerry's blog entries and doesn't seem to have found it either. Until I find anything to the contrary, it would seem more likely to be a spoof posted somewhere that made troofdom.

Offline John

Re: Amaral's body in a fridge theory common to both Joana and Madeleine?
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2013, 12:50:25 PM »
I posted the link to the Supreme Court as someone asked what type of freezer it was.  Anyone wanting to pursue the Cipriano case should go to the relevant threads.

What we are discussing here is whether the Cipriano case unduly influenced Dr Amaral's judgement?
« Last Edit: November 05, 2013, 12:52:59 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Cariad

  • Guest
Re: Amaral's body in a fridge theory common to both Joana and Madeleine?
« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2013, 12:54:26 PM »
Pamalam kept a record of all of Gerry's blog entries and doesn't seem to have found it either. Until I find anything to the contrary, it would seem more likely to be a spoof posted somewhere that made troofdom.

Wouldn't surprise me in the least. It never fails to amaze me how many myths spring up in this case!

Offline Carana

Re: Amaral's body in a fridge theory common to both Joana and Madeleine?
« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2013, 12:55:57 PM »
I posted the link to the Supreme Court as someone asked what type of freezer it was.  Anyone wanting to pursue the Cipriano case should go to the relevant threads.

What we are discussing here is whether the Cipriano case unduly influenced Dr Amaral's judgement?

Thank you, but what you posted doesn't clarify what type of "refrigeration unit" it actually was.

Offline John

Re: Amaral's body in a fridge theory common to both Joana and Madeleine?
« Reply #28 on: November 05, 2013, 01:42:44 PM »
A three-drawer freezer would seem to be a standard sized unit capable of sitting under a worktop. 
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Carana

Re: Amaral's body in a fridge theory common to both Joana and Madeleine?
« Reply #29 on: November 05, 2013, 01:56:07 PM »
A three-drawer freezer would seem to be a standard sized unit capable of sitting under a worktop.

Without access to the photos, there is no way of knowing what this "refrigeration unit" actually was. Is there anything to indicate that there was a freezer unit and a separate fridge? I.e. two separate units? I haven't found anything to that effect.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2013, 01:58:02 PM by Carana »