Amaral and the dogs

[Mr Gray]

"Amaral & the Dogs"?
It seems to me any post containing either the word dog or Amaral would be on topic.

So by your logic any post containing either and or the would be on topic
Thanks for your contribution

[lordpookles]

So what DO they alert to when no evidence of any corpse is found?  For example Zampo the cadaver dog which alerted numerous times in a forest in which the handler believed murders and dismemberments had taken place but which later turned out to be untrue?

Dead bodies and blood. I should rephrase and say they are not supposed to alert to anything else(obviously, doesn't mean that doesn't happen). The arguments presented regarding the heat and leading the dog also seem compelling to me. Of course you have both dogs alerting in the same places which seems unlikely, but the existence of blood for instance means little I would imagine especially with 3 youngsters running around. If there is any truth to the rumour that Kate handled cadavers and was wearing the same clothes I don't see why that would not work too. All this of course is why corroborating evidence is needed.

 Also, I have read that latest research suggests that a dead body does not need to be situ for as long as thought and could be as little as 10 minutes to leave scent which can be detected. Sorry I don't have the link right now.

[Eleanor]

Could you all somehow manage to throw Amaral somewhere into the mix?

PS.  Even a PS. will do.

[Lace]

This is the part of the article I posted a link to that tells it all as far as I am concerned -


2) Dogs specifically trained to detect scent of decomposed human tissue can be invaluable in resolving issues related to evidence gathering and determination of investigative direction. It is crucial, however, that dogs be used in situations appropriate to their training level, and that dog handlers are able to support their testimony about dog behavior with accurate training logs. Any canine used for forensic purposes in the location of the scent of decomposed human tissue should never be cross-trained for any other type of scent work if the results of the animal's activities and handler's opinions are to be used for the development of probable cause.


Eddie was trained as a rescue dog first of all,   in which case he would have been trained to detect live human bodies.

When Eddie alerted in the living room behind the sofa,  he alerted exactly where Keela had,  the exact spot, so was obviously in my opinion alerting to may be blood.

If Madeleine had lain behind that sofa long enough for the scent of a cadaver to be apparent,  then Eddie would have been alerting to whole of the area behind the sofa.

Eddie was panting so he was obviously tired and hot,   Keela wasn't panting.

When did Grime retire Eddie?

[Eleanor]

This is the part of the article I posted a link to that tells it all as far as I am concerned -


2) Dogs specifically trained to detect scent of decomposed human tissue can be invaluable in resolving issues related to evidence gathering and determination of investigative direction. It is crucial, however, that dogs be used in situations appropriate to their training level, and that dog handlers are able to support their testimony about dog behavior with accurate training logs. Any canine used for forensic purposes in the location of the scent of decomposed human tissue should never be cross-trained for any other type of scent work if the results of the animal's activities and handler's opinions are to be used for the development of probable cause.


Eddie was trained as a rescue dog first of all,   in which case he would have been trained to detect live human bodies.

When Eddie alerted in the living room behind the sofa,  he alerted exactly where Keela had,  the exact spot, so was obviously in my opinion alerting to may be blood.

If Madeleine had lain behind that sofa long enough for the scent of a cadaver to be apparent,  then Eddie would have been alerting to whole of the area behind the sofa.

Eddie was panting so he was obviously tired and hot,   Keela wasn't panting.

When did Grime retire Eddie?

Thank You, Lace.

There, you see.  It's not difficult.

[stephen25000]

This is the part of the article I posted a link to that tells it all as far as I am concerned -


2) Dogs specifically trained to detect scent of decomposed human tissue can be invaluable in resolving issues related to evidence gathering and determination of investigative direction. It is crucial, however, that dogs be used in situations appropriate to their training level, and that dog handlers are able to support their testimony about dog behavior with accurate training logs. Any canine used for forensic purposes in the location of the scent of decomposed human tissue should never be cross-trained for any other type of scent work if the results of the animal's activities and handler's opinions are to be used for the development of probable cause.


Eddie was trained as a rescue dog first of all,   in which case he would have been trained to detect live human bodies.

When Eddie alerted in the living room behind the sofa,  he alerted exactly where Keela had,  the exact spot, so was obviously in my opinion alerting to may be blood.

If Madeleine had lain behind that sofa long enough for the scent of a cadaver to be apparent,  then Eddie would have been alerting to whole of the area behind the sofa.

Eddie was panting so he was obviously tired and hot,   Keela wasn't panting.

When did Grime retire Eddie?

Why don't you contact him yourself on linkedin and find out ?

[Eleanor]

Why don't you contact him yourself on linkedin and find out ?

Amaral and The Dogs, please, Stephen.

[stephen25000]

Amaral and The Dogs, please, Stephen.

Lace asked a question and I gave her a suggestion related to the topic.

[Eleanor]

Lace asked a question and I gave her a suggestion related to the topic.

Not quite good enough, Stephen.  Especially as Martin Grime will not reply.  As well you know.

[stephen25000]

Not quite good enough, Stephen.  Especially as Martin Grime will not reply.  As well you know.

How do you know that ?

and bearing in mind the slagging off he gets from certain members of this forum and elsewhere, I would imagine he has to be careful.

So on that basis, what is the point of Lace's question, as only opinions could be offered, without inside knowledge ?

[Eleanor]

I will be deleting Off Topic Posts shortly.  So why not save your time and mine.

[Anna]

This is the part of the article I posted a link to that tells it all as far as I am concerned -


2) Dogs specifically trained to detect scent of decomposed human tissue can be invaluable in resolving issues related to evidence gathering and determination of investigative direction. It is crucial, however, that dogs be used in situations appropriate to their training level, and that dog handlers are able to support their testimony about dog behavior with accurate training logs. Any canine used for forensic purposes in the location of the scent of decomposed human tissue should never be cross-trained for any other type of scent work if the results of the animal's activities and handler's opinions are to be used for the development of probable cause.


Eddie was trained as a rescue dog first of all,   in which case he would have been trained to detect live human bodies.

When Eddie alerted in the living room behind the sofa,  he alerted exactly where Keela had,  the exact spot, so was obviously in my opinion alerting to may be blood.

If Madeleine had lain behind that sofa long enough for the scent of a cadaver to be apparent,  then Eddie would have been alerting to whole of the area behind the sofa.

Eddie was panting so he was obviously tired and hot,   Keela wasn't panting.

When did Grime retire Eddie?

Eddie would have been 12 years old when he died. He would have been retired some time before this and after the Jersey search. So between 2009 and 2012. I cant see anything referring to him after Jersey. 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

BLOOD DOG EDDIE DIED PEACEFULLY APPROX APRIL 2012 FROM THROAT CANCER

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/DEATHS.htm

[Anna]

Not the best of cites showing that the dogs were not entirely understood by Goncalo Amaral.  However Is this not what we should be discussing?

From then on, we are sure that, at a given moment, there was a body in apartment 5A. We now have to interview firemen, medical services personnel, previous tenants and employees of the Ocean Club to make sure that no death has taken place in this accommodation, which they confirm. So, we can conclude that the odour discovered is certainly that of Madeleine Beth McCann.http://goncaloamaraltruthofthelie.blogspot.co.uk/2009/06/chapter-16.html

[Brietta]

Without evidence of any kind to go on I think Mr Amaral's last throw of the die was to get a confession.  I have no idea whether he actually believed "the evidence of the dogs" but it seems he thought it would panic his chosen targets to the extent he would have another 'successful' outcome under his belt, and his future in the PJ assured.

He was and is very sore about having to go, an event for which he blames the Drs McCann ... but which in reality had nothing much to do with them but a lot to do with his own actions.

Alfred has reminded us about Zampo whose alerts to what must have been thought of as residual cadaver odour most certainly allowed a killer or a series of killers to walk free.
Which is a consideration when forming a "theory" and bending the facts to suit.

Quote
 In 2008, Hannes Råstam, one of Sweden's most respected documentary-makers, became intrigued.
He visited the former Thomas Quick, now known as Sture Bergwall, at Säter, trawled through the 50,000 pages of court documents, therapy notes and police interrogations and came to the startling conclusion that there was not a single shred of technical evidence for any of Bergwall's convictions.
There were no DNA traces, no murder weapons, no eyewitnesses – nothing apart from his confessions, many of which had been given when he was under the influence of narcotic-strength drugs. Confronted with Råstam's discoveries, Bergwall admitted the unthinkable. He said he had fabricated the entire story.   Unquote
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/oct/20/thomas-quick-bergwall-sweden-murder

Davel kindly posted a timely reminder of exactly Mr Amaral's thought process which is wrong in its entirety and meant the inquiry under his leadership was led in entirely the wrong direction  ... Quote:  So, we can conclude that the odour discovered is certainly that of Madeleine Beth McCann. (TOTL)  Unquote

No-one ... not even the dog's handler could conclude anything without corroboration.
Nor can any interpretation be made as from whom the supposed odour emanated ... unless as well as not lying dogs can talk and make an inky impress of their paw on a witness statement.

[stephen25000]

If the dogs had no importance, why the contained reference to them and Grime by mccann supporters ? &%+((£