Author Topic: Cell Site Analysis.  (Read 1590 times)

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Offline faithlilly

Cell Site Analysis.
« on: May 03, 2021, 01:46:31 PM »
So many questions surrounding this case could have been answered if the Lothian and Borders police had availed themselves of an expert in cell cite analysis. Not only could it have verified Luke’s whereabouts on the night of the murder but also many of the bit players such as John [Name removed], James, Falconer, Jodi’s brother and Steven Kelly, thus dispelling all the suspicion that swirls around them to this day. It could also have clarified the approximate location of Andrina Bryson at the original and amended time of her sighting.

The expertise was certainly advanced enough to give such information in the early 2000’s as the case below proves.

https://www.forensicfocus.com/forums/mobile-telephone-case-law/cell-site-analysis-csa-case/

So if the prosecution didn’t employ an expert in cell site analysis, why not and if they did why wasn’t the analysis he provided used in court?

We know that the defence had pursued this line of defence but were told by the legal aid board that their expert was too expensive and they had no time to find another but the police and PF had no such excuse.

For me this is a glaring omission by the prosecution and not easily explained.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Cell Site Analysis.
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2021, 02:21:42 PM »
In 1998 Michael Steele and Jack Whomes were found guilty of the so-called Essex Boys murders.  The evidence centered around cell site analysis, albeit controversially so, but the capability certainly existed at the time of LM's trial.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Cell Site Analysis.
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2021, 03:00:55 PM »
So many questions surrounding this case could have been answered if the Lothian and Borders police had availed themselves of an expert in cell cite analysis. Not only could it have verified Luke’s whereabouts on the night of the murder but also many of the bit players such as John [Name removed], James, Falconer, Jodi’s brother and Steven Kelly, thus dispelling all the suspicion that swirls around them to this day. It could also have clarified the approximate location of Andrina Bryson at the original and amended time of her sighting.

The expertise was certainly advanced enough to give such information in the early 2000’s as the case below proves.

https://www.forensicfocus.com/forums/mobile-telephone-case-law/cell-site-analysis-csa-case/

So if the prosecution didn’t employ an expert in cell site analysis, why not and if they did why wasn’t the analysis he provided used in court?

We know that the defence had pursued this line of defence but were told by the legal aid board that their expert was too expensive and they had no time to find another but the police and PF had no such excuse.

For me this is a glaring omission by the prosecution and not easily explained.
I’m curious to know how you think cell site analysis would have verified Mitchell’s whereabouts when as far as I recall you have utterly poo-poohed the notion that similar analysis puts the key suspect in the McCann case in close proximity to the place from whence she disappeared?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline WakeyWakey

Re: Cell Site Analysis.
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2021, 03:33:15 PM »
So many questions surrounding this case could have been answered if the Lothian and Borders police had availed themselves of an expert in cell cite analysis. Not only could it have verified Luke’s whereabouts on the night of the murder but also many of the bit players such as John [Name removed], James, Falconer, Jodi’s brother and Steven Kelly, thus dispelling all the suspicion that swirls around them to this day. It could also have clarified the approximate location of Andrina Bryson at the original and amended time of her sighting.

The expertise was certainly advanced enough to give such information in the early 2000’s as the case below proves.

https://www.forensicfocus.com/forums/mobile-telephone-case-law/cell-site-analysis-csa-case/

So if the prosecution didn’t employ an expert in cell site analysis, why not and if they did why wasn’t the analysis he provided used in court?

We know that the defence had pursued this line of defence but were told by the legal aid board that their expert was too expensive and they had no time to find another but the police and PF had no such excuse.

For me this is a glaring omission by the prosecution and not easily explained.

The cell site analysis in that case was used to determine if a phone was connected or not to one particular antenna during a specified period of time.

Given that the range of a mobile antennae is > 10 miles, would such info have been of any conclusive use in the Jodi Jones case? It would have shown everyone's mobiles within the region of the local antennae and nothing more conclusive or specific than that; and that's assuming the mobile operators had retained the data when requested as part of an investigation. I remember looking into this before, and there was no legal requirement for mobile operators to hold and retain call records until 2007, and even then they were only required to hold records for 12 months.

Clearly some still had this info avaliable as in the mentioned case, but it's not a given.

Offline Brietta

Re: Cell Site Analysis.
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2021, 04:58:18 PM »
The cell site analysis in that case was used to determine if a phone was connected or not to one particular antenna during a specified period of time.

Given that the range of a mobile antennae is > 10 miles, would such info have been of any conclusive use in the Jodi Jones case? It would have shown everyone's mobiles within the region of the local antennae and nothing more conclusive or specific than that; and that's assuming the mobile operators had retained the data when requested as part of an investigation. I remember looking into this before, and there was no legal requirement for mobile operators to hold and retain call records until 2007, and even then they were only required to hold records for 12 months.

Clearly some still had this info avaliable as in the mentioned case, but it's not a given.

It is most definitely "a given" that information from the phone dump in Praia da Luz 2007 is still in existence.
Snip
Scotland Yard is for the first time trawling through a vast log of mobile phone traffic identified in Praia da Luz, in Portugal, at the time of Madeleine's disappearance.
--------------------------------------------------------
A large but "manageable" list of phone numbers identified as being present in Praia da Luz - though not necessarily used to make phone calls - has been drawn up by detectives with a "significant" number unattributed to any named person.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/10/04/madeleine-mccann-mobile-p_n_4041343.html

"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline faithlilly

Re: Cell Site Analysis.
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2021, 06:25:55 PM »
The cell site analysis in that case was used to determine if a phone was connected or not to one particular antenna during a specified period of time.

Given that the range of a mobile antennae is > 10 miles, would such info have been of any conclusive use in the Jodi Jones case? It would have shown everyone's mobiles within the region of the local antennae and nothing more conclusive or specific than that; and that's assuming the mobile operators had retained the data when requested as part of an investigation. I remember looking into this before, and there was no legal requirement for mobile operators to hold and retain call records until 2007, and even then they were only required to hold records for 12 months.

Clearly some still had this info avaliable as in the mentioned case, but it's not a given.

10 miles maximum range, agreed but in the Ian Huntley case, also in 2003, one of his victims phones was placed at his house. Other cases where cell site analysis played an important part.

Stuart Campbell (Dec 2002): Convicted of murdering Danielle Jones
Colm Murphy (Jan 2002): Convicted of Omagh bomb plot
Two juveniles (Apr 2002): Acquitted of murdering Damilola Taylor
Senthamil Thillainathan (Jun 2003): Convicted, along with two others, of killing a Tamil youth
Jack Whomes and Mick Steele (Jan 1998): Convicted of murdering three gangsters in Essex (but seeking appeal based on new mobile phone evidence)

Luke’s defence team believed cell site analysis was important enough to attempt to engage an expert on the subject. What legitimate reason did the prosecution have for not doing the same....or perhaps they did?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Cell Site Analysis.
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2021, 06:40:44 PM »
10 miles maximum range, agreed but in the Ian Huntley case, also in 2003, one of his victims phones was placed at his house. Other cases where cell site analysis played an important part.

Stuart Campbell (Dec 2002): Convicted of murdering Danielle Jones
Colm Murphy (Jan 2002): Convicted of Omagh bomb plot
Two juveniles (Apr 2002): Acquitted of murdering Damilola Taylor
Senthamil Thillainathan (Jun 2003): Convicted, along with two others, of killing a Tamil youth
Jack Whomes and Mick Steele (Jan 1998): Convicted of murdering three gangsters in Essex (but seeking appeal based on new mobile phone evidence)

Luke’s defence team believed cell site analysis was important enough to attempt to engage an expert on the subject. What legitimate reason did the prosecution have for not doing the same....or perhaps they did?
Interesting.  This if true would seem to strengthen the case against Bruckner in the McCann case then, if cell phones can actually be placed that accurately.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Mr Apples

Re: Cell Site Analysis.
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2021, 12:53:27 AM »
What’s money when lives are at stake? It’s a disgrace, imo, that the money wasn’t available immediately for this to be done for the defence, especially as it could’ve provided the most crucial circumstancial evidence of all in the entire case. Likewise, I don’t understand why the prosecution never had it done either, as it could’ve provided them with the same key evidence. Was the onus solely on the defence to have the cell site analysis done?  I think, even back in 2003, the gsm technology in phones could pinpoint a person’s location to up to 30 metres, so, while not completely accurate, was enough to incriminate or absolve a person strongly. It’s a pity the phones back then didn’t have GPS technology like they all have now — that really would’ve been almost irrefutable proof.

Offline Parky41

Re: Cell Site Analysis.
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2021, 12:38:13 PM »
What’s money when lives are at stake? It’s a disgrace, imo, that the money wasn’t available immediately for this to be done for the defence, especially as it could’ve provided the most crucial circumstancial evidence of all in the entire case. Likewise, I don’t understand why the prosecution never had it done either, as it could’ve provided them with the same key evidence. Was the onus solely on the defence to have the cell site analysis done?  I think, even back in 2003, the gsm technology in phones could pinpoint a person’s location to up to 30 metres, so, while not completely accurate, was enough to incriminate or absolve a person strongly. It’s a pity the phones back then didn’t have GPS technology like they all have now — that really would’ve been almost irrefutable proof.

The problem with going down this obtuse line of questioning and reasoning is, as you say, why? - let's have some common sense here.

No cell cite analysis carried out - due to the fear of it proving LM innocent, by the Crown? None carried out by the defence as no funding, not allowed to show LM to be innocent. - the simple answer, there was none that could pinpoint LM to being within a mile of his home/locus and Easthouse's, as the crow flies. DF was not refused funding, he, unlike Ms Lean would have saw those reports from the investigation. LM's defence team, not his friend and subsequent POA.

No expert dog evidence brought in by the Crown or defence - as it would show LM to be possibly innocent and again no funding for the defence? - dog evidence? what dog evidence? - LM was not some 40ft passed this V with his dog. LM's dog was no where near tracker trained. A teddy up a tree indeed? Really? DF saw all of those statements, he did not go down some long winded road, attempting to show this search party had backtracked from somewhere? He knew exactly, from those very first statements - that none of this search trio, had ever claimed to have walked passed this V, prior to LM going over. He did ask them about the dog, he did attempt to show that LM was alerted at the V, and to disperse doubt of what they could see, once he was over, such as turning immediately to his left. You see, LM claimed that he had shone his torch about first. DF was attempting to show this had happened? It had not, not from those first statements to the last. Interestingly though, he attempted to show that LM had not sought to go immediately left, as there was no alert from the dog, to the direction Jodi was?  - funding indeed? And again those precognitions, the Jury being taken to the locus, the witness's being taken to the locus. - And that time factor. There is an abundance of very damming evidence here, showing clearly, the impossibility of what LM claimed happened. If people wish to be distracted by SK, saying in court he could not remember what the dog did, at this V, as proof that LM was not lying - then really? Or that JaJ had made it clear, upon clarification of that first statement, as to exactly whom, was in hysterics.

Complete ignorance by the police, Crown and Findlay? of any possible sightings of Jodi - should they again show LM to be innocent - not used by the defence as no funding, claimed to have not been allowed to produce witness's outwith those of the prosecution. - not allowed to show LM to be innocent? These claims that these sightings were either ignored, or followed up. These strawman arguments. - There was absolutely no confirmation that any of this was Jodi, on the Monday in question, that the time was after 5pm. DF, and his team going over every inch of this, every piece of evidence from the investigation - Ms Lean , we are led to believe is however, far superior to all and everyone else, where intelligence is concerned? - Claims that DF could not use any of this due to funding, due to NOT being allowed to call any witness's of his own - They were simply empty of any substance. No riches to be found. Nothing that could have shown the sighting by AB to have been false. If there had been, it would have been used, it really is that simple. - For it is not just in one area - this futile reasoning, excuses are being used in everything. - nothing is ever produced as proof. 

All? the wrong forensic tests were asked for by the prosecution, in case they showed LM to be innocent, re -  An another being responsible - not carried out by the defence as the police let this funeral go ahead too soon - again no funding as no exhumation of the body, to carry out tests to show that possibility of innocence - The wrong type of testing was requested from the deceased finger nails, if the correct testing was done, then evidence of her attacker is now potentially lost. - What a lot of nonsense - this is on par with "we are once again, left with that real possibility that Jodi was killed elsewhere" - DF saw those reports, as did his team of experts - This constant, "but we don't know as -------" Is Ms Lean, her questions, her queries and her strive for gold. And this is why, they are empty and without foundation. All of these IF's?

No CCTV footage accessed re AB by the Crown, should it show AB was at the store, at a different time from her bank statement? - really? There simply was none.

No investigation done around others should it show LM to be innocent -  Completely bypasses, yet again, DF and his professional team. those precognitions and so forth. Ms Lean does not have a clue what went into the investigation, this has been proven, time and again - Has not however stopped her from these multiple assumptions, and damming reports of all and everything? 

There is of course, yet again lots more. The system really was out to get LM, for absolutely no reason according to Ms Lean? The police simply believed that LM had murdered Jodi Jones - nothing was going to stop them. There has only ever been one set of people, in all of this with tunnel vision - that is those who campaign for innocence on behalf of Ms Leans word. The very person, who has had, nothing other than tunnel vision. - The Mitchells, placed firmly on the outside?

It is far more plausible to believe that there were two LM's on Newbattle R'd that evening, rather than that stark reality that is was in fact him. MK and LM one and the same? - the two youths with the same jacket as LM "around" 6pm.   

Every witness was either manipulated, connected or simply wrong - lot of pockets being filled there. And to add weight to all of this, we are consistently being fed with - MOJ's do happen, people are fitted up - We know this. Each case however, is on it's own merit of worth. - And still there has been nothing, of any solid founding to show that the evidence against LM is wrong. Remembering here that it came mainly from his own mouth - And here lies the problem, lies being the operative word.

This beyond reasonable doubt - what it did clearly show is there were perhaps one or two Jurors at a push - who may not have chosen to find anyone guilty irrespective of the evidence before them. It was a majority on possession of knives and cannabis - really?, taken that R'd of - I would physically have to have seen him do it, carry a knife and give me some cannabis - which is far more believable than the Jury were a bunch of rag readers. That complete thwart on intelligence that is branded upon everyone, involved in the case. - There is only one truth, that of the Mitchells. Sweet boy who launched "half a mars bar".

Offline Nicholas

Re: Cell Site Analysis.
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2021, 01:22:11 PM »
The problem with going down this obtuse line of questioning and reasoning is, as you say, why? - let's have some common sense here.

No cell cite analysis carried out - due to the fear of it proving LM innocent, by the Crown? None carried out by the defence as no funding, not allowed to show LM to be innocent. - the simple answer, there was none that could pinpoint LM to being within a mile of his home/locus and Easthouse's, as the crow flies. DF was not refused funding, he, unlike Ms Lean would have saw those reports from the investigation. LM's defence team, not his friend and subsequent POA.

 8((()*/
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Cell Site Analysis.
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2021, 01:24:11 PM »
The problem with going down this obtuse line of questioning and reasoning is, as you say, why? - let's have some common sense here.

No expert dog evidence brought in by the Crown or defence - as it would show LM to be possibly innocent and again no funding for the defence? - dog evidence? what dog evidence? - LM was not some 40ft passed this V with his dog. LM's dog was no where near tracker trained. A teddy up a tree indeed? Really? DF saw all of those statements, he did not go down some long winded road, attempting to show this search party had backtracked from somewhere? He knew exactly, from those very first statements - that none of this search trio, had ever claimed to have walked passed this V, prior to LM going over. He did ask them about the dog, he did attempt to show that LM was alerted at the V, and to disperse doubt of what they could see, once he was over, such as turning immediately to his left. You see, LM claimed that he had shone his torch about first. DF was attempting to show this had happened? It had not, not from those first statements to the last. Interestingly though, he attempted to show that LM had not sought to go immediately left, as there was no alert from the dog, to the direction Jodi was?  - funding indeed? And again those precognitions, the Jury being taken to the locus, the witness's being taken to the locus. - And that time factor. There is an abundance of very damming evidence here, showing clearly, the impossibility of what LM claimed happened. If people wish to be distracted by SK, saying in court he could not remember what the dog did, at this V, as proof that LM was not lying - then really? Or that JaJ had made it clear, upon clarification of that first statement, as to exactly whom, was in hysterics.

 8((()*/
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Cell Site Analysis.
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2021, 01:26:21 PM »
The problem with going down this obtuse line of questioning and reasoning is, as you say, why? - let's have some common sense here.

Complete ignorance by the police, Crown and Findlay? of any possible sightings of Jodi - should they again show LM to be innocent - not used by the defence as no funding, claimed to have not been allowed to produce witness's outwith those of the prosecution. - not allowed to show LM to be innocent? These claims that these sightings were either ignored, or followed up. These strawman arguments. - There was absolutely no confirmation that any of this was Jodi, on the Monday in question, that the time was after 5pm. DF, and his team going over every inch of this, every piece of evidence from the investigation - Ms Lean , we are led to believe is however, far superior to all and everyone else, where intelligence is concerned?

 8((()*/
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Cell Site Analysis.
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2021, 01:27:25 PM »
The problem with going down this obtuse line of questioning and reasoning is, as you say, why? - let's have some common sense here.

Claims that DF could not use any of this due to funding, due to NOT being allowed to call any witness's of his own - They were simply empty of any substance. No riches to be found. Nothing that could have shown the sighting by AB to have been false. If there had been, it would have been used, it really is that simple. - For it is not just in one area - this futile reasoning, excuses are being used in everything. - nothing is ever produced as proof. 

 8((()*/
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Cell Site Analysis.
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2021, 01:28:43 PM »
The problem with going down this obtuse line of questioning and reasoning is, as you say, why? - let's have some common sense here.

All? the wrong forensic tests were asked for by the prosecution, in case they showed LM to be innocent, re -  An another being responsible - not carried out by the defence as the police let this funeral go ahead too soon - again no funding as no exhumation of the body, to carry out tests to show that possibility of innocence - The wrong type of testing was requested from the deceased finger nails, if the correct testing was done, then evidence of her attacker is now potentially lost. - What a lot of nonsense - this is on par with "we are once again, left with that real possibility that Jodi was killed elsewhere" - DF saw those reports, as did his team of experts - This constant, "but we don't know as -------" Is Ms Lean, her questions, her queries and her strive for gold. And this is why, they are empty and without foundation. All of these IF's?

 8((()*/
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Cell Site Analysis.
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2021, 01:30:11 PM »
The problem with going down this obtuse line of questioning and reasoning is, as you say, why? - let's have some common sense here.

No CCTV footage accessed re AB by the Crown, should it show AB was at the store, at a different time from her bank statement? - really? There simply was none.

No investigation done around others should it show LM to be innocent -  Completely bypasses, yet again, DF and his professional team. those precognitions and so forth. Ms Lean does not have a clue what went into the investigation, this has been proven, time and again - Has not however stopped her from these multiple assumptions, and damming reports of all and everything? 

 8((()*/
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation