Author Topic: Luke Mitchell Theories  (Read 108510 times)

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Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Luke Mitchell Theories
« Reply #840 on: April 14, 2024, 07:15:13 AM »


It's unlikely to have been MK, or any other random unknown psychopath because if it was, we wouldn't have such utter rubbish being spouted such as:  "we don't remember what we were doing at the V", "we don't know where the moped went", certain people being unable to explain why they went straight to RD Path and once on it didn't look in the woods right beside the path before the wall starts near the V, other people claiming they didn't know RD Path despite living 2-300 yards away from it, others claiming to hear a noise like "branches rustling" cycling past the V then changing it in Court to "strangling noises", people changing statements from LM's dog was sniffing the air near the V then a few weeks later changed to LM went straight over the V. Then of course we also have someone claimed to be in the house all day and night who was seen outside at 445pm then never seen again until the following day. Not even seen by Police when they went to the house at 130am because they didn't look in any other rooms to confirm if anyone else was in or not.
Why did you go to the trouble to list all the reasons why you felt he should be considered a suspect then, ending your post “it doesn’t look too good” if you think it’s unlikely to be him?  Oddly, you don’t think it was the Moped Boys either yet you insist on keeping them in the frame too.  That’s what I don’t get about the Mitchell Is Innocent brigade - they throw mud at everyone else hoping some of it will stick when quite obviously they can’t all have been involved.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Luke Mitchell Theories
« Reply #841 on: April 14, 2024, 07:18:49 AM »
MK was tall (6 ft+), slim, at least 5 years older. Strangely that's the same description M.O'S gave of the person she saw next to her father in laws house. Someone much taller than LM and older. The similar is more to do with his hair colour/style and clothes. He might not have looked similar when you met him, but did you ever see him around 2003-04? Photos of him from around that time do look a bit like LM, enough so that someone seeing him for seconds from cars like in this case could mistake him for LM.

Regardless I don't think it was MK that did it. If it was, there wouldn't be all these changed witness testimonies and people "not remembering anything about what they were doing at the V"  and rustling branches morphing into strangling noises etc etc.

Are you of the opinion that LM did it? We know there was very little blood where the victim was found so she must have been carried or dragged from somewhere else. How do you think LM could have managed to carry out this murder then move the body and get absolutely no trace of blood on him?
It is disingenuous to state as fact that Mitchell got absolutely no trace of blood on him, he wasn’t subject to close forensic scrutiny directly after the murder and had plenty of time to get rid of evidence.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Chris_Halkides

Re: Luke Mitchell Theories
« Reply #842 on: April 14, 2024, 12:21:41 PM »
Forbes tried to stitch him up then sell a story to the press for cash.
As far as I can tell, the only person who claimed this was MK.  It is among the more absurd claims in a case that does not lack for them.

Offline Chris_Halkides

Re: Luke Mitchell Theories
« Reply #843 on: April 14, 2024, 12:53:40 PM »
It is disingenuous to state as fact that Mitchell got absolutely no trace of blood on him, he wasn’t subject to close forensic scrutiny directly after the murder and had plenty of time to get rid of evidence.
The claim that LM was examined from head to toe might be an exaggeration; he was examined from head to shin. Yet LM was examined earlier and more thoroughly than anyone else.  No evidence of blood has ever been offered.  I respectfully but strongly question the notion that he had plenty of time to get rid of evidence.

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Luke Mitchell Theories
« Reply #844 on: April 14, 2024, 01:11:30 PM »
The claim that LM was examined from head to toe might be an exaggeration; he was examined from head to shin. Yet LM was examined earlier and more thoroughly than anyone else.  No evidence of blood has ever been offered.  I respectfully but strongly question the notion that he had plenty of time to get rid of evidence.
What time was the murder supposed to have been carried out and what time was LM examined thoroughly from head to shin?  How long does it take to get rid of bloody clothes and rinse blood off your hands?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Chris_Halkides

Re: Luke Mitchell Theories
« Reply #845 on: April 14, 2024, 02:29:34 PM »
He was seen by others long before then, and no one said that he was bloody.  Professor Busuttil remarked on some of the precautions one would have had to take to avoid being bloodstained.  Yet no evidence of a protective garment, goggles, or clothes were offered.  It is possible that RW and LF saw LM, but the balance of probability is that this occurred in a location that was farther along the road.  How LM could have disposed of clothing and gotten there is not obvious.

Offline Parky41

Re: Luke Mitchell Theories
« Reply #846 on: April 14, 2024, 02:39:56 PM »
What time was the murder supposed to have been carried out and what time was LM examined thoroughly from head to shin?  How long does it take to get rid of bloody clothes and rinse blood off your hands?

LM was wearing clothes. - Socks, boots, long trousers, coat and clothing beneath this. Contrary to common belief he was not extensively 'forensically' examined at all.

Reality of what 'may' have been exposed upon himself to contamination. - Face, parts of head/hair? - Just how difficult is it/would have been, to remove recent contamination from the 'anything' exposed? More so with the most natural source around him for doing so. It is fallacy to apply even this needed some major clean up operation. No one knows the extent of any contamination from the neck up but him. But we do know it was recent contamination whatever it may have been.

He had a hair sample taken, his hair was not forensically examined all over. Finger nail scrapings, and it can never be discounted that he was wearing gloves in the attack. He was out and about in woodland messing about with his mates for a good 90mins. it takes little to get your nails dirty.

The claims of manky ankles/ neck - As above. There was zero requirement, not a snifter of any, to be scrubbing any engrained dirt (if there) from himself. His hair 'appeared unwashed' As above, the little that may have been contaminated, did not require the type of cleaning people apply. Gee whiz, rinsing his greasy mop through in that river would remove but it all. Plus, he had further times frames for repeating that.

I have heard people then apply, but the tests did not pick up algae, any substance from a river! Firstly, they have no idea what the test was for or what it produced. That have only put out  the application of 'appeared unwashed' Which has nothing to do with the actual results of hair sample!

Clothing is where the brunt of any contamination would have been upon - LM was not with the boys until two hours after the murder. He then had at least two hours before being in the company of people in that search. The prof was applying that someone would have to have been covered then getting rid of that type of covering. NO one has ever claimed that there would have been nothing upon his actual self. But we do not and can never discount LM being surrounded by the most natural man made source. That only a complete 'fool' would not take advantage of.

As for passing sightings on NR, the only one relatively close being F&W passing by in a moving car.  We don't just get to apply he had to have had masses of blood upon him shining bright red, we do apply contamination that had red against dark green/khaki.

Offline Chris_Halkides

Re: Luke Mitchell Theories
« Reply #847 on: April 14, 2024, 04:33:21 PM »
Contrary to common belief he was not extensively 'forensically' examined at all.
Do you have a citation for this claim?

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Luke Mitchell Theories
« Reply #848 on: April 14, 2024, 04:56:42 PM »
He was seen by others long before then, and no one said that he was bloody.  Professor Busuttil remarked on some of the precautions one would have had to take to avoid being bloodstained.  Yet no evidence of a protective garment, goggles, or clothes were offered.  It is possible that RW and LF saw LM, but the balance of probability is that this occurred in a location that was farther along the road.  How LM could have disposed of clothing and gotten there is not obvious.
He was seen long before when?  You say he was seen by others - how long after the murder was this? Did they see him at a distance or were they stood right next to him at the time?  How closely was he being scrutinised for signs of being involved in a murder at that point?  A coat or overshirt would act as a protective garment wouldn’t it? How long does it take to remove such a garment and stash it somewhere, maybe to retrieve later before the police get involved?  Why would any murderer need to have been wearing goggles?  That’s a bizarre suggestion.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Chris_Halkides

Re: Luke Mitchell Theories
« Reply #849 on: April 14, 2024, 05:41:29 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Za9URBNFmSA
Go to the one minute point in this video to hear Professor Busuttil discussing protective garments.

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Luke Mitchell Theories
« Reply #850 on: April 14, 2024, 05:56:26 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Za9URBNFmSA
Go to the one minute point in this video to hear Professor Busuttil discussing protective garments.
So?  Until you or the learned professor can demonstrate that it was physically impossible for Mitchell to have discarded bloody clothes and rinsed traces of blood from his body between the time of the murder and the first time he was examined by police I fail to see the relevance of this clip.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Chris_Halkides

Re: Luke Mitchell Theories
« Reply #851 on: April 14, 2024, 06:32:48 PM »
It is up to the police and prosecution to find this evidence and put it before the court.  That they did not do so is significant.

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Luke Mitchell Theories
« Reply #852 on: April 14, 2024, 08:01:41 PM »
It is up to the police and prosecution to find this evidence and put it before the court.  That they did not do so is significant.
What is more  significant is that the evidence they did put before the court was sufficient to secure a majority verdict which was guilty.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Parky41

Re: Luke Mitchell Theories
« Reply #853 on: April 14, 2024, 08:32:14 PM »
Do you have a citation for this claim?

On repeat - Nail scraping, hair sample, appearance 'noted' Done within the confinement of a police station. One doesn't extensively forensically examine a rape victim in a police station. There are places where extensive forensic examinations are carried out. There is none and never has there been any evidence that LM was extensively, forensically examined all over. It really does come down to analysing information logically rather than acceptance at face value.

The same prof I believe who gave an account of how the killer would not necessarily be heavily contaminated? Again, LM had ample means and opportunity to get rid of anything that was contaminated. He (prof) is talking about someone who would immediately have been taken into custody without any means or opportunity for disposal, clean up. This did not apply to LM at all.

Do you want to apply that to him? The lad who had clearly fantasized about such, who could have been an opportunist awaiting one arising. Go for it Chris, we can apply he had all the gear, got himself suited and booted prior to any knife attack. Packed it all up together, dumping it behind that gate. Retrieving it later to be burnt into ash? -What says you? You see, it still doesn't cancel LM out of the equation, not ever. We can add more? Worried about any cross contamination with his clothing underneath, got rid of that too. Because it still doesn't cancel out that missing clothing.

No one knows but the killer exactly what precautions he took, only he knew exactly what was upon him. Shady as! Keeping his head down at that gate, only looking up to see if the car was out of sight and clocked. Seen again, taken himself in off road, head down. To claim he was that far up, looking up the road to see if the girl were in sight. He was seen doing no such thing, not looking up that road, nor walking back down it. There is nothing that fits in any of his claims, no evidence in the slightest to back any of it up.

 

Offline Chris_Halkides

Re: Luke Mitchell Theories
« Reply #854 on: April 14, 2024, 11:19:17 PM »
What is more  significant is that the evidence they did put before the court was sufficient to secure a majority verdict which was guilty.
You are running away from the problem that I noted, namely that the notion that LM disposed of a murder weapon and bloody clothing is pure conjecture without one scintilla of evidence to back it up.  To ask someone to disprove that this happened is to reverse the burden of proof.  Fine, let's talk about the witnesses.  The accounts of LK and others changed over time.  Occam's razor suggests that the police, being the common factor, were responsible for those changes.  I call this witness cajoling (more recently I heard it called witness coaxing).  There were also instances in which good procedure regarding witness testimony were simply ignored.  Not for no reason did Professor Wilson  write, "Witness testimony is weak, inconsistent and more than likely wrong..."