Author Topic: Barry George revisited.  (Read 170966 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #645 on: May 03, 2019, 09:07:21 AM »
Jill Dando: how pressure to find a killer made the criminal justice system reckless by Natalie Smith 3rd May 2018
“Nearly everyone had been misled about the strength of the firearms residue evidence. Even during the appeal, the prosecution were reluctant to accept they had in anyway misled the jury but the Court of Appeal concluded it was impossible to know the verdict the jury would have returned had they been given the correct impression. The verdict was unsafe but there had been other evidence relied on and it was to be seen if a jury could be sure, as the Crown were, of Barry George’s guilt. A retrial followed that year and the jury acquitted him. He was released after eight years in prison.
https://www.thejusticegap.com/jill-dando-how-pressure-to-find-a-killer-made-the-criminal-justice-system-reckless/


tunnel vision is the product of a variety of cognitive distortions, such as confirmation bias, hindsight bias, and outcome bias, which can impede accuracy in what we perceive and in how we interpret what we perceive

Natalie Smith clearly hasn’t considered the fact Barry George may have duped his way through the criminal process (I firmly believe he has), instead she argues, “nearly everyone has been mislead about the strength of the firearms residue evidence....

Recklessness could apply to Natalie Smith’ who apparently is a lawyer specialising in criminal litigation, she states:

The expert evidence provides a terrifying image of her last moments. The killer forced her head either onto or close to the front step of her home, then bending or crouching over her he pressed a gun to her head and shot her. It was an execution. It was violence aimed at a woman and one of the most famous women in Britain at the time.

These are Natalie Smith’s images.

She then claims:

The pressure and determination to find the killer made the criminal justice system reckless.

There’s no evidence of this.

The smallest of evidence took on too great a significance and those tasked with finding the killer ended up seeing what they wanted to in it. Logic became obscured.

Seems to me Natalie Smith is seeing what she wants to see, dismissing all other evidential evidence in the process, and it’s her logic that has become obscured.  *&^^&

According to her website bio she has, “successfully defended in cases involving very serious criminal allegations, particularly those that are damaging to reputation.
http://defendingfalseallegations.co.uk/Natalie%20Smith%20CV%20.pdf

And apparently currently works for Hodge, Jones and Allen who ironically Jon Robbins wrote about here:

Hodge Jones & Allen faces legal action for ‘hopeless’ MMR litigation - Posted By Jon Robins - 27th June 2
“Hodge Jones & Allen have flatly denied that they knowingly pursued ‘hopeless’ MMR vaccine litigation cases.
http://legalvoice.org.uk/hodge-jones-allen-faces-legal-action-for-hopeless-mmr-litigation/

Lawyers accused of milking millions from legal aid by pursuing 'hopeless' bid for compensation over claims MMR jab was linked to autism
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2670479/Families-failed-win-compensation-flawed-MMR-research-suing-lawyers-pursuing-hopeless-claims-making-millions-legal-aid.html

I don’t suppose she’s considered the police in this case had their reputations smeared, which in turn distorted the public’s perceptions of their investigation? Which Barry George attempted to use to his advantage.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2019, 10:43:04 AM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #646 on: May 03, 2019, 11:05:43 AM »
Natalie Smith clearly hasn’t considered the fact Barry George may have duped his way through the criminal process (I firmly believe he has), instead she argues, “nearly everyone has been mislead about the strength of the firearms residue evidence....

Recklessness could apply to Natalie Smith’ who apparently is a lawyer specialising in criminal litigation, she states:

The expert evidence provides a terrifying image of her last moments. The killer forced her head either onto or close to the front step of her home, then bending or crouching over her he pressed a gun to her head and shot her. It was an execution. It was violence aimed at a woman and one of the most famous women in Britain at the time.

These are Natalie Smith’s images.

She then claims:

The pressure and determination to find the killer made the criminal justice system reckless.

There’s no evidence of this.

The smallest of evidence took on too great a significance and those tasked with finding the killer ended up seeing what they wanted to in it. Logic became obscured.

Seems to me Natalie Smith is seeing what she wants to see, dismissing all other evidential evidence in the process, and it’s her logic that has become obscured.  *&^^&

According to her website bio she has, “successfully defended in cases involving very serious criminal allegations, particularly those that are damaging to reputation.
http://defendingfalseallegations.co.uk/Natalie%20Smith%20CV%20.pdf

And apparently currently works for Hodge, Jones and Allen who ironically Jon Robbins wrote about here:

Hodge Jones & Allen faces legal action for ‘hopeless’ MMR litigation - Posted By Jon Robins - 27th June 2
“Hodge Jones & Allen have flatly denied that they knowingly pursued ‘hopeless’ MMR vaccine litigation cases.
http://legalvoice.org.uk/hodge-jones-allen-faces-legal-action-for-hopeless-mmr-litigation/

Lawyers accused of milking millions from legal aid by pursuing 'hopeless' bid for compensation over claims MMR jab was linked to autism
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2670479/Families-failed-win-compensation-flawed-MMR-research-suing-lawyers-pursuing-hopeless-claims-making-millions-legal-aid.html

I don’t suppose she’s considered the police in this case had their reputations smeared, which in turn distorted the public’s perceptions of their investigation? Which Barry George attempted to use to his advantage.

Rather than attempt to understand WHY the criminal justice system, who said in relation to Barry George, “only people who proved their innocence could get compensation, she continues with her assumption that it’s the system that is reckless as opposed to considering ALL options?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31578422

Her cognitive biases have clearly distorted her judgement of this case, imo.

Lord Justice Beatson and Mr Justice Irwin said: "There was indeed a case upon which a reasonable jury properly directed could have convicted the claimant of murder."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-211952

« Last Edit: May 03, 2019, 11:22:48 AM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #647 on: May 03, 2019, 11:57:55 AM »
Interesting, Professor Norman Fenton et al’ work on probative value has been picked up in the Ben Geen case by Jon Robbins here:

The Justice Trap: Murder by Numbers - Jon Robins 13 March 2019
“There is a phenomenon known as ‘prosecutor’s fallacy’ where people – lawyers, jurors and the judiciary – confuse the probability of finding the evidence on an innocent person with the probability that a person on whom the evidence is found is innocent.

“An application to the miscarriage of justice watchdog the Criminal Cases Review Commission was backed by five leading statisticians including Sir David Spiegelhalter, of Cambridge University and Professor Norman Fenton, of Queen Mary University of London.

There is widespread concern about the courts failure to get to grips with probability and how wrong assumptions drive prosecutions.
‘If you look at the way these cases are prosecuted, the statistics by no means dominate,’ Dr Fenton told me. ‘It’s all about the medical evidence. It doesn’t look like it has anything to do with a problem to do with statistics. But it is the statistics that initially drive the case.’

https://bylinetimes.com/2019/03/13/the-justice-trap-murder-by-numbers/

Professor Norman Fenton et al’s work has caused controversy within the scientific community (Scroll down to read letter to editor)

“This letter to the Editor comments on the article When ‘neutral’ evidence still has probative value (with implications from the Barry George Case) by N. Fenton et al. [1, in press]
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/262019314_On_the_use_of_the_likelihood_ratio_for_forensic_evaluation_response_to_Fenton_et_al

Once again reminds me of the controversy surrounding the FFS and Tiernan Coyle re; the fibre evidence in the Simon Hall case.

What’s the betting ego’s and contamination of confirmation bias factor into the controversy?

Guess it would be too much for these experts to consider Barry George’s guilt and their findings are wrong?!
« Last Edit: May 03, 2019, 01:07:52 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #648 on: May 03, 2019, 12:16:06 PM »
“This letter to the Editor comments on the article When ‘neutral’ evidence still has probative value (with implications from the Barry George Case) by N. Fenton et al. [1, in press]
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/262019314_On_the_use_of_the_likelihood_ratio_for_forensic_evaluation_response_to_Fenton_et_al

Once again reminds me of the controversy surrounding the FFS and Tiernan Coyle re; the fibre evidence in the Simon Hall case.


In summary, we conclude that neither the concern of exhaustiveness, nor of ways to deal with this issue using12graphical probability models, represent original topics. Scientists who care about their approach to forensic evaluationcan find much material on the subject in existing literature, among which Science &Justice is a primary source (e.g.,14examples quoted above). By exposing known concepts in the context of a highly mediated case, Fenton et al.’s[1] critical exposition bears the risk of leaving the unfortunate impression that there is an inherent problem with16probability theory as a framework with which to deal with uncertainty.A suggestion that the findings in relation to gunshot residue should have been weighted di↵erently by the scientists18arises from a confusion between the role assigned to them and the role assigned to the court. In the context of thepropositions put to the scientist, the conclusion stating that the value to be assigned to the findings was ‘neutral’ – that20is a likelihood ratio of 1 – was fully justified. Had the propositions been di↵erent, the assessment of the findings mayhave required to be revised, but there is nothing new here and more importantly, there is nothing in the framework of22circumstances of that particular case that suggests that such a change is needed. Discussion of such a case in abstractoonly creates confusion that is not helpful for a proper administration of justice
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/262019314_On_the_use_of_the_likelihood_ratio_for_forensic_evaluation_response_to_Fenton_et_al

Do Scientists care more about their reputations than admitting mistakes?

I’ve yet to see any academic who used the Simon Hall case in their research go back and re think through their theories and evaluations.

“Discussion of such a case in abstracto only creates confusion that is not helpful for a proper administration of justice.

Is it the job of the author(s) to administer justice?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25002051
« Last Edit: May 03, 2019, 12:45:21 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #649 on: May 03, 2019, 12:52:02 PM »
In summary, we conclude that neither the concern of exhaustiveness, nor of ways to deal with this issue using12graphical probability models, represent original topics. Scientists who care about their approach to forensic evaluationcan find much material on the subject in existing literature, among which Science &Justice is a primary source (e.g.,14examples quoted above). By exposing known concepts in the context of a highly mediated case, Fenton et al.’s[1] critical exposition bears the risk of leaving the unfortunate impression that there is an inherent problem with16probability theory as a framework with which to deal with uncertainty.A suggestion that the findings in relation to gunshot residue should have been weighted di↵erently by the scientists18arises from a confusion between the role assigned to them and the role assigned to the court. In the context of thepropositions put to the scientist, the conclusion stating that the value to be assigned to the findings was ‘neutral’ – that20is a likelihood ratio of 1 – was fully justified. Had the propositions been di↵erent, the assessment of the findings mayhave required to be revised, but there is nothing new here and more importantly, there is nothing in the framework of22circumstances of that particular case that suggests that such a change is needed. Discussion of such a case in abstractoonly creates confusion that is not helpful for a proper administration of justice
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/262019314_On_the_use_of_the_likelihood_ratio_for_forensic_evaluation_response_to_Fenton_et_al

Do Scientists care more about their reputations than admitting mistakes?

I’ve yet to see any academic who used the Simon Hall case in their research go back and re think through their theories and evaluations.

“Discussion of such a case in abstracto only creates confusion that is not helpful for a proper administration of justice.

Is it the job of the author(s) to administer justice?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25002051

Who of course are not contaminated by confirmation bias

https://www.coursera.org/lecture/challenging-forensic-science/part-b-gunshot-residues-recovered-on-a-suspect-the-george-case-WiasT

 *&^^&

Alex Bierderman
“I study and write about evidential reasoning and decision making at the intersection between forensic science and the law. My work is multidisciplinary and pertains to forensic science, law and topics in probability and decision theory
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Alex_Biedermann
« Last Edit: May 03, 2019, 12:56:09 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #650 on: May 03, 2019, 01:10:36 PM »
Professor Norman Fenton et al’s work has caused controversy within the scientific community (Scroll down to read letter to editor)

“This letter to the Editor comments on the article When ‘neutral’ evidence still has probative value (with implications from the Barry George Case) by N. Fenton et al. [1, in press]
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/262019314_On_the_use_of_the_likelihood_ratio_for_forensic_evaluation_response_to_Fenton_et_al

Once again reminds me of the controversy surrounding the FFS and Tiernan Coyle re; the fibre evidence in the Simon Hall case.

What’s the betting ego’s and contamination of confirmation bias factor into the controversy?

Guess it would be too much for these experts to consider Barry George’s guilt and their findings are wrong?!

Who has a personal agenda as opposed to a public interest agenda?
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #651 on: May 03, 2019, 03:55:49 PM »
Michelle Diskin Bates talks to Stephen Tomkins

On 26 April 1999, the TV presenter Jill Dando was killed, and 13 months later, Barry George was arrested and charged with her murder. Although the council for the defence were confident that there was no case against him, Barry was convicted and sentenced to life imprisonment. His sister, Michelle Diskin as she was then, had supported Barry in the past through difficulties caused by his mental health, and she supported him through his time in prison and his appeals, campaigning for his exoneration. Barry’s conviction was finally overturned in 2013. Mrs Diskin Bates now campaigns on behalf of those wrongfully convicted and is the author of Stand Against Injustice (Malcolm Down, 2018).

___

What was life like for you and Barry growing up?
We had quite a hard life. Our parents’ marriage was very poor – it was toxic – and that always leaves an effect on children. I found myself looking after my brother and my sister a lot. I would take them out every day to play, and it was my job to make sure they were all safe. When my sister had grand mal seizures, I had been trained to look after her.

When Barry was caught shoplifting you had to go home and get your mother, who couldn’t face it and you had to deal with it alone, at the age of 14.
I was often put in a position where I had to deal with things that would have been for an older person, but that was because Mum just couldn’t face things like that. A lot of Barry’s instances of what looked like bad behaviour were down to his disabilities. The shoplifting he did because Mum was feeling down and his only thought was: How can I make her feel better?
https://www.reform-magazine.co.uk/2019/01/interview-innocence-and-experience/
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #652 on: May 03, 2019, 04:03:49 PM »
Here Michelle Diskin Bates describes herself as Barry George’s second mother and comments on Mark Williams Thomas

10th December 2018
https://www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/html5/#/radio1/21476295

Minimisation is a type of deception[1] involving denial coupled with rationalisation in situations where complete denial is implausible. It is the opposite of exaggeration. Minimisation—downplaying the significance of an event or emotion—is a common strategy in dealing with feelings of guilt.[2]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimisation_(psychology)
« Last Edit: May 03, 2019, 04:28:05 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #653 on: May 03, 2019, 04:37:09 PM »
Listening to Michelle Diskin Bates talking about her brother Barry George and reading her various publications about his past behaviours reminds me of the phrase:

get away with murder
to be allowed to do things that other people would be punished or criticized for:
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/get-away-with-murder

And I know I’m not alone regarding my opinions and observations.
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #654 on: May 03, 2019, 04:43:55 PM »
“Barry George was wrongfully convicted of the 1999 murder of TV presenter Jill Dando and spent eight years in prison before his conviction was quashed. His sister Michelle Diskin Bates has written a memoir of the toll the case has taken on her family.

"The healing of damaged relationships is difficult to achieve after a miscarriage of justice. People have been hurt, words have been spoken that cannot be taken back. Trust will have broken down, and bitterness can become the driving force in many lives.

"Guilt, anger, fear, denial, pain, confusion and blame. These are all emotions I have either experienced or witnessed since Barry's release. Barry and I clashed many times - with me being the one to shout and scream at the poor guy for his unintentionally injurious effect on our family's life.

"I shouted, stormed and blazed. Barry looked on, confusion in his eyes, speaking words of apology to me. None of us had a magic wand to wave that would make all this disappear."

Like Sam Hallam and Victor Nealon, Barry George has been denied compensation for wrongful imprisonment. Michelle says the judges have in effect ruled that he “wasn’t innocent enough”.

Jill Dando’s killer has never been found.
https://www.insidejustice.co.uk/news/stand-against-injustice/152
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #655 on: May 03, 2019, 10:05:04 PM »
Michelle Diskin Bates talks to Stephen Tomkins

On 26 April 1999, the TV presenter Jill Dando was killed, and 13 months later, Barry George was arrested and charged with her murder. Although the council for the defence were confident that there was no case against him, Barry was convicted and sentenced to life imprisonment. His sister, Michelle Diskin as she was then, had supported Barry in the past through difficulties caused by his mental health, and she supported him through his time in prison and his appeals, campaigning for his exoneration. Barry’s conviction was finally overturned in 2013. Mrs Diskin Bates now campaigns on behalf of those wrongfully convicted and is the author of Stand Against Injustice (Malcolm Down, 2018).

___

What was life like for you and Barry growing up?
We had quite a hard life. Our parents’ marriage was very poor – it was toxic – and that always leaves an effect on children. I found myself looking after my brother and my sister a lot. I would take them out every day to play, and it was my job to make sure they were all safe. When my sister had grand mal seizures, I had been trained to look after her.

When Barry was caught shoplifting you had to go home and get your mother, who couldn’t face it and you had to deal with it alone, at the age of 14.
I was often put in a position where I had to deal with things that would have been for an older person, but that was because Mum just couldn’t face things like that. A lot of Barry’s instances of what looked like bad behaviour were down to his disabilities. The shoplifting he did because Mum was feeling down and his only thought was: How can I make her feel better?
https://www.reform-magazine.co.uk/2019/01/interview-innocence-and-experience/

By Richard Edwards, Crime Correspondent
2:16PM BST 11 Jun 2008

“Barry George had written the names of Britt Ekland, star of The Man With The Golden Gun, and former Olympic gymnast and television presenter Suzanne Dando - who appeared in Octopussy - in a notebook.
There were the only two names in a column he had prepared for television and film stars, said Jonathan Laidlaw QC, prosecuting.
In the same book, he had also listed the names of models with a column for home addresses and there were references to television presenters Fiona Foster and Caron Keating.
They were among several female presenters whom George had photographed on his television set, the court heard.
Police found 4,000 images of women - many of whom he had stalked in the streets - on undeveloped rolls of film at his home, jurors have been told.
The prosecution alleges that George had an obsessive fascination with celebrities, guns and stalking women.
His flat contained business cards from female television presenters and BBC employees, as well as magazines with articles about Miss Dando.
They included a local newspaper which made it clear she lived in Fulham, south west London, Mr Laidlaw said.
A photograph of Miss Dando, 37, and her doctor fiancé Alan Farthing had been torn from a newspaper published after her death.
Two handwritten notes from George were found by police officers in which he expressed his regret at her death.
One ended: "For that reason, I took it upon myself to lay flowers at her doorstep on behalf of the fellowship of the Baptist Church."
The court also heard that George had taken cards of condolence left at the scene of Miss Dando's murder in April 1999, and kept them at his flat in the Crookham Road, 500 yards from Miss Dando's home.

Two photographs showed him holding guns - one in which he was wearing a military-style respirator and the other of him dressed in camouflage gear - showed his fascination with guns, it was alleged.
A year after the murder, George had been kept under surveillance by police for three weeks before his arrest.
"The defendant frequently approached women and he was a regular visitor to internet cafes," said Mr Laidlaw.
On one day, he had been followed to two BBC buildings in the Wood Lane area.
George denies murder at his retrial. The case continues.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/2110889/Jill-Dando-murder-Barry-George-kept-notes-on-James-Bond-girls.html
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #656 on: May 03, 2019, 10:18:25 PM »
Interesting, Professor Norman Fenton et al’ work on probative value has been picked up in the Ben Geen case by Jon Robbins here:

The Justice Trap: Murder by Numbers - Jon Robins 13 March 2019
“There is a phenomenon known as ‘prosecutor’s fallacy’ where people – lawyers, jurors and the judiciary – confuse the probability of finding the evidence on an innocent person with the probability that a person on whom the evidence is found is innocent.

“An application to the miscarriage of justice watchdog the Criminal Cases Review Commission was backed by five leading statisticians including Sir David Spiegelhalter, of Cambridge University and Professor Norman Fenton, of Queen Mary University of London.

There is widespread concern about the courts failure to get to grips with probability and how wrong assumptions drive prosecutions.
‘If you look at the way these cases are prosecuted, the statistics by no means dominate,’ Dr Fenton told me. ‘It’s all about the medical evidence. It doesn’t look like it has anything to do with a problem to do with statistics. But it is the statistics that initially drive the case.’

https://bylinetimes.com/2019/03/13/the-justice-trap-murder-by-numbers/

http://probabilityandlaw.blogspot.com/2019/

https://understandinguncertainty.org/court-appeal-bans-bayesian-probability-and-sherlock-holmes

http://probabilityandlaw.blogspot.com/2013/01/who-is-appropriate-expert-here-dna.html
« Last Edit: May 03, 2019, 10:35:25 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #657 on: May 03, 2019, 11:00:32 PM »
“When I first heard that Barry George was arrested for the murder of Jill Dando, I was shocked, but did not think that he was guilty. I decided that I would offer Barry and his mother my unconditional support, which was accepted. I helped him to get a good defence team and followed the case with close interest. I thought the Crown might produce hard evidence at the committal hearing and was horrified when he was sent for trial on the little evidence which they had. When, seven months after his arrest, the Home Office bowed to pressure and finally allowed me to visit him, I became a regular visitor. I was there when he was convicted, and the following day, I told the UK that he was innocent. A rift in his supporters then opened, but we all had the same aim, justice for Barry. One day, a respected reporter asked me: "If Barry did not kill Jill Dando, then who did" I had never given that any thought, but I would, in the future. What I discovered was disturbing, and I came to believe that the real killer may have slipped under the radar while potentially vital evidence was ignored, the crime scene destroyed, red herrings chased, as the trail went cold. Following Barry's failed appeal, I set up website and later formed a small but well supported campaign group. We took every opportunity to highlight doubts and discrepancies. After a few bleak years, with our help, the BBC Panorama exposed serious flaws in the Crown's case. We were on the road to victory, and two years later, we arrived. Barry and I then went our separate ways but reconciled eventually. But this story will not end until the murder of Jill Dando is properly solved or explained. I have not given up hope on that, and I would like to think that this book might inspire the powers that be to have a more in-depth review of all the evidence, old and new. Not to do so would be remiss of them and an affront to justice.

Mike Burke, June 2012

https://www.amazon.com/Fight-Clear-Barry-George-Murder/dp/146858586X/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8


I wonder how Mike Bourke feels today?
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #658 on: May 04, 2019, 08:38:46 AM »
September 10, 2013 at 10:04 am
As a family member of a terrible miscarriage of justice, the victim being Barry George, convicted of the murder of Jill Dando; the Simon Hall confession is a concern because it is already so difficult for true MOJs to be believed by the public; this confession damages the credibility of all those still fighting for justice.
Michelle (Diskin) Bates
https://www.thejusticegap.com/simon-hall-confession-a-time-to-take-stock/


This comment made me question Michelle Diskin Bates integrity, especially when considered in relation to the content of the article. Which was ignorantly written by Julie Price, who immaturely and naively used it as her platform to have a pop at Bristol Uni in a quite obvious attempt to claim the moral high ground and promote her cause.

Her colleague Dennis Eady’s article, written around the same time, appears to have been removed? My mistake, it appears to have been moved https://www.thejusticegap.com/keeping-perspective/

Dennis Eady
In 20 plus years of studying miscarriages of justice, while there may have been a few cases where people have for a short time maintained innocence before admitting guilt, I can think of no other high profile, widely supported case where the person has maintained innocence over many years and pursued the case through legal avenues (CCRC, Court of Appeal) and then admitted guilt.
**That’s concerning! Take a look at Stephen Downing’s case. Then go back and look at your own work**

Miscarriages of justice: the uncertainty principle
“The thesis considers the often illusory nature of some of the principles of the criminal justice system and utilises notions of 'magical legalism' (Cohen 2001) and other psychological processes that may be involved in maintaining the illusions. http://orca.cf.ac.uk/54837/

“Downing's release was reported in the BBC as being hailed as 'a triumph for campaigning journalism... and an end to one of the worst miscarriages of justice in English legal history.' Downing was reported as receiving celebrity treatment upon his release. He initially found employment as a trainee chef in a Bakewell restaurant, using the training he had been given whilst in prison.[4] He received compensation of £750,000 because he was not informed he was under arrest nor that he had the right to a solicitor.[12][better source needed] He received the money in two payments – an interim payment of £250,000 followed by a final payment of £500,000.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Downing_case


Dennis Eady - This thesis is submitted in candidature for the degree of Doctor of Philosophy
The Dangers of Certainty
Handful of excerpts from page 260 onwards
“Policing by its nature involves decision making and assertive action (Reiner 2000). The uncertainty of many investigative and evidential factors may be uncomfortable in a culture where decisiveness is considered an important attribute. Furthermore one of the experiential problems for investigating officers is that they deal constantly with crime and people who commit crimes; they are no doubt faced on a regular basis with people who lie and distort the truth.

Covering up the Cracks
The case study in the next chapter on the Sion Jenkins case expands on the police and CPS reactions to his acquittal, and the implied suggestions that they had not changed their view and were right to have brought the prosecution.

“Sion Jenkins “seven second defence” at his first trial (see page 160) provided another example of a barrister’s tactic presumably supposed to have a dramatic effect on the jury, an assumption that most people would find bizarre; the logical step for most people being likely to be ‘if you have a defence then use if. This element of theatre is part of the “majesty of the law”, the idea of skilful advocates performing before the court to swing the argument for their clients.
The arbitrators of ‘fact’ are it seems faced with making their decisions in an artificial magisterial environment where information can be presented in many ways, some of which may involve elements of theatre or tactics which may not accord with their normal mode of thinking.

Journalistic Culture and Wrongful Convictions
Inthe history of the correction of miscarriages of justice the role of the media has been crucial in discovering new evidence and creating public awareness, without which the systems own mechanisms for ‘rectification of error’ would not have been adequate. Despite the advent of the CCRC the media role remains a vital resource for investigations thatmight seek out new witnesses or fund expert reports and make a case that can be used bythe CCRC or defence lawyers (see for example the TV programmes listed under ‘References’). This section however reflects on the views ofjournalists in this study and suggests a trend away from the kind ofjournalism that has made these vital contribution

The decline of Investigative Journalism.
Writing in the prisoners’ magazine “Inside Time” (Dec 2007) Louise Shorter, a former producer of BBC’s “Rough Justice” programme, pointed out how investigations by the programme had led to 17 serious convictions being overturned in the programme’s 27 year history. Rough Justice had been dropped by the BBC in Nov 2007 and independent television’s equivalent programme “Trial and Error” had been shelved some years before. For some the media role in respect of investigating cases declined in part as a result of the establishment of the CCRC: -
“A result of that was to keep things out of the media somewhere along the line a lot ofjournalists have got the message that these things are being dealt with” (Jl)
Investigative programmes however, although less in number and very selective in the cases they featured, were very different to most CCRC investigations, being more proactive in searching for new evidence and free of legalistic and statutory restraints on remit. Moreover they brought the issue into the public consciousness in a way that may bebeing lost in a world of “law and order” rhetoric: -

“Today’s journalists therefore work under pressure to produce sound bites in an era of information overload; they are mostly commentators rather than investigators. The media focus is on what sells - on personality, individuals and on celebrity; “looking at evidence does not sell newspapers or TV programmes” (Jl). The rectification of miscarriages of justice may suffer from a wider culture of ‘dumbing down’ which weakens the power of public pressure: -

“Another aspect of risk and cost increasingly faced by journalists and particularly if dealing with controversial convictions, is the potential legal comeback if media outlets challenge the integrity of powerful groups or individuals. This means that lawyers advising organisations are cautious and, as some journalists had experienced, the system needs a lot of convincing before challenging the authorities, who may then be liable to
sue: -

These concerns will not be helped by comments made by Lord Chief Justice Phillips at the appeal of Barry George, questioning the propriety of programmes broadcast by the BBC on the case shortly before the appeal (Duncan Campbell Guardian 12/11/07). The Court of Appeal has never been keen on the idea that the media might reveal the failings of the criminal justice system.
https://orca.cf.ac.uk/54837/1/U585226.pdf



The broadcasting by the BBC on the Barry George case shortly before his appeal should never have been allowed. Nothing whatsoever to do with ”the media might reveal the failings of the criminal justice system” and everything to do with due process and the rule of law. What about the potential to prejudice a jury? Which I believe is what happened.

Jill Dando: The Jury's Out Panorama
“Raphael Rowe investigates claims that the forensic evidence which lead to the conviction of Barry George for the murder of Jill Dando in 2001 was unreliable and misleading.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0085bqg


https://trollexposure.wordpress.com/2018/08/08/is-the-investigator-being-investigated/

https://trollexposure.wordpress.com/2018/12/23/2018-a-trollexposure-review/
« Last Edit: May 04, 2019, 01:14:21 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #659 on: May 04, 2019, 09:56:29 AM »
These concerns will not be helped by comments made by Lord Chief Justice Phillips at the appeal of Barry George, questioning the propriety of programmes broadcast by the BBC on the case shortly before the appeal (Duncan Campbell Guardian 12/11/07). The Court of Appeal has never been keen on the idea that the media might reveal the failings of the criminal justice system.
https://orca.cf.ac.uk/54837/1/U585226.pdf


The broadcasting by the BBC on the Barry George case shortly before his appeal should never have been allowed. Nothing whatsoever to do with ”the media might reveal the failings of the criminal justice system” and everything to do with due process and the rule of law. What about the potential to prejudice a jury? Which I believe is what happened.

Jill Dando: The Jury's Out Panorama
“Raphael Rowe investigates claims that the forensic evidence which lead to the conviction of Barry George for the murder of Jill Dando in 2001 was unreliable and misleading.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0085bqg


https://trollexposure.wordpress.com/2018/08/08/is-the-investigator-being-investigated/

https://trollexposure.wordpress.com/2018/12/23/2018-a-trollexposure-review/

Eight years after the Dando murder, Barry George is told his conviction was unsafe
“Barry George had his conviction for murdering the television presenter Jill Dando quashed yesterday after the court of appeal concluded that fresh scientific evidence meant that there was "no certainty" that the jury at his original trial would have convicted him. The court ruled that the original verdict was unsafe.
George, 47, who remained impassive when the lord chief justice, Lord Phillips, announced the court's decision, will face a retrial next year. His legal team is considering whether to apply for bail, as the trial is unlikely to take place before the end of next summer.

"I just want to say thank you to the judges in there," said George's sister, Michelle Diskin, after the decision. "They were very fair and they really did look at the evidence. This is just one step along the way. We do not really feel that we have a victory. We do not have Barry. He has not got his freedom yet and it has been an absolute nightmare journey so far." Diskin, who has campaigned on behalf of her brother since his conviction in 2001, said they were "back at first base now".

George's solicitor, Jeremy Moore, also welcomed the decision. "We are very pleased with the outcome," he said. "This is only the latest hurdle in what has been a very long road and we now look forward very much to preparing for the trial. Barry is also very pleased."

George, who had a psychologist beside him in the dock to explain what was happening, because he suffers from learning difficulties, was remanded in custody.

The judge, who sat with Lord Justice Leveson and Mr Justice Simon, said the prosecution had relied on four categories of evidence at the original trial in 2001. One category had been identification evidence, which placed George near the scene on two occasions on the day of the murder; the second ground was "repeated lies" told by George in police interviews; the third category was an alleged attempt to create a false alibi; and the fourth was a tiny particle of firearms discharge residue (FDR) found in his overcoat about a year after the murder.

Last week, the appeal court heard from expert witnesses from the Forensic Science Service that "it was, in fact, no more likely that the particle had come from a gun fired by Barry George than that it had come from some other source".

The lord chief justice told a packed court that "if this evidence had been given to the jury at the trial, there is no certainty that they would have found Barry George guilty. For this reason his conviction had to be quashed."

In the fuller, written judgement, the court said: "It is impossible to know what weight, if any, the jury attached to the FDR evidence. It is equally impossible to know what verdict they would have reached had they been told, as we were told ... that it is just as likely that the single particle of FDR came from some extraneous source as it was that it came from a gun fired by the appellant. The verdict is unsafe."

Orlando Pownall QC, for the crown, told the court that they would seek a retrial.

William Clegg QC, for George, asked the court to issue instructions to the media on the future coverage of the controversial case. At the start of the three-day appeal last week, the lord chief justice said that correspondence about the case had been sent to him and his fellow-judges which was inappropriate. He also said that the court would consider the "propriety" of recent television programmes about the case, one of which carried interviews with two jurors from George's original trial.

Yesterday Clegg said that the letter sent to the judges prior to the appeal, which "contained a number of material inaccuracies", had also been published in a national newspaper. This is believed to be a reference to an open letter from Dando's former colleague and friend Nick Ross, which was published in the Daily Mail two days before the appeal started. "There should be no further repetition of the details of the case," said Clegg. He said much of the coverage in the media leading up to the appeal had been "inaccurate."

The lord chief justice said that he would emphasise to the media their potential liabilities under the contempt of court rules which now come into force and which will remain active until the conclusion of the retrial

Dando, co-presenter of BBC's Crimewatch UK programme, was shot dead on the doorstep of her home in Fulham, south-west London, in April 1999. George, who lived near her home, was arrested for her murder a year later and convicted and jailed for life at the Old Bailey in 2001. His first appeal, in 2002, was unsuccessful, but the matter was re-examined by the Criminal Cases Review Commission, which referred it back to the court of appeal.

Clegg told the court last week that the jury were given the impression that the particle of FDR was "crucial" to the case, whereas they should have been told that it was "neutral" or "inconclusive". At the appeal, Pownall argued that the particle evidence was only one part of a "compelling" prosecution case against George and it had been challenged heavily at the original trial.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/nov/16/jilldando.ukcrime
« Last Edit: May 04, 2019, 01:14:53 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation