Author Topic: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?  (Read 109533 times)

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Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #210 on: March 29, 2020, 12:35:24 PM »
Yawn.
You shouldn’t stay up so late.  I did warn you, but did you listen?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #211 on: March 29, 2020, 12:36:59 PM »
‘What I am spearheading is not being a dick ’

Then you’re unfortunately failing miserably.
And that is what we in the business call an ad hom.  Once the argument degenerates to this level one can safely say one has one the argument.  Thank you and goodnight. 
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline puglove

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #212 on: March 29, 2020, 12:39:02 PM »
What I am spearheading is not being a dick and using this crisis as an opportunity to stick the boot in for political capital.  Some people just can’t help themselves it seems.

I know b....r all about politics, but the thought of Corbyn and that loony old weapon McDonnell being in charge at the moment is utterly terrifying.
Jeremy Bamber kicked Mike Tesko in the fanny.

Offline faithlilly

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #213 on: March 29, 2020, 12:41:45 PM »
And that is what we in the business call an ad hom.  Once the argument degenerates to this level one can safely say one has one the argument.  Thank you and goodnight.

You have neither one nor won the argument. The government is still incompetent and you are still paddling against a groundswell of expert opinion.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline faithlilly

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #214 on: March 29, 2020, 12:42:25 PM »
I know b....r all about politics, but the thought of Corbyn and that loony old weapon McDonnell being in charge at the moment is utterly terrifying.

And they’re not so your point is somewhat redundant.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline puglove

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #215 on: March 29, 2020, 12:44:48 PM »
And they’re not so your point is somewhat redundant.

None taken!!


 ?{)(**
Jeremy Bamber kicked Mike Tesko in the fanny.

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #216 on: March 29, 2020, 01:26:54 PM »
You have neither one nor won the argument. The government is still incompetent and you are still paddling against a groundswell of expert opinion.
"The government is incompetent" in YOUR opinion.  There is no consensus "expert opinion" that the government is behaving more or less incompetently than any other government in the same boat.  The proof will be in the data.  Some people (yourself included) appear to actively WANT the government to fail, that is so depressing.  I didn't hear you or all the other armchair experts admonishing them for not stockpiling PPE and ventilators two months ago.  In fact two months ago, no one seemed that bothered and many seemed to be of the opinion that there was a huge overeaction to something which wasn't even as bad as seasonal flu.  It;s all very well being wise in retrospect.   
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #217 on: March 29, 2020, 01:30:18 PM »
Nuanced ?  Simplistic would be a better description.
So you can provide no bench marks by which to judge this government’s performance versus others worldwide?  I suggest you come up with some then before continuing to rip our government to shreds on a daily basis.  I'll take it from the answer above that you cannot.  Spain and Britain reported their first CV case on the same day.  Spain has now had in excess of 6500 deaths to our 1000 death toll.  Were that situation reversed would you consider the death toll figures more relevant I wonder....Something tells me you would!
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline faithlilly

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #218 on: March 29, 2020, 02:43:44 PM »
"The government is incompetent" in YOUR opinion.  There is no consensus "expert opinion" that the government is behaving more or less incompetently than any other government in the same boat.  The proof will be in the data.  Some people (yourself included) appear to actively WANT the government to fail, that is so depressing.  I didn't hear you or all the other armchair experts admonishing them for not stockpiling PPE and ventilators two months ago.  In fact two months ago, no one seemed that bothered and many seemed to be of the opinion that there was a huge overeaction to something which wasn't even as bad as seasonal flu.  It;s all very well being wise in retrospect.   

How can the fault for government’s failings possibly be laid at the feet of those who are bringing the public’s attention to them ?

As a citizen of this country I expect the government to not only work in my best interests when there is a pandemic but put plans in place to protect me in the event of one...this hasn’t happened. In 2017 the government was told that in the event of a pandemic access to eye protection would be needed yet they ignored the advice, suggesting that it would be too expensive to stockpile such equipment. These are the decisions that the public were not privy to but would be appalled if they had been. Unfortunately it is only when there is a pandemic that these decisions do leak into the public domain.

You do realise don’t you that every time you fail to hold the government to account on their woeful handling of this pandemic then the more likely it will be that bad decisions at the highest levels will be made in the future and more lives lost.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline faithlilly

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #219 on: March 29, 2020, 02:47:24 PM »
So you can provide no bench marks by which to judge this government’s performance versus others worldwide?  I suggest you come up with some then before continuing to rip our government to shreds on a daily basis.  I'll take it from the answer above that you cannot.  Spain and Britain reported their first CV case on the same day.  Spain has now had in excess of 6500 deaths to our 1000 death toll.  Were that situation reversed would you consider the death toll figures more relevant I wonder....Something tells me you would!

If refer you back to your own post in which the consult said that direct comparisons could not be made between the death rates of different countries as the way the data is being collected varies.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #220 on: March 29, 2020, 03:18:48 PM »
How can the fault for government’s failings possibly be laid at the feet of those who are bringing the public’s attention to them ?

As a citizen of this country I expect the government to not only work in my best interests when there is a pandemic but put plans in place to protect me in the event of one...this hasn’t happened. In 2017 the government was told that in the event of a pandemic access to eye protection would be needed yet they ignored the advice, suggesting that it would be too expensive to stockpile such equipment. These are the decisions that the public were not privy to but would be appalled if they had been. Unfortunately it is only when there is a pandemic that these decisions do leak into the public domain.

You do realise don’t you that every time you fail to hold the government to account on their woeful handling of this pandemic then the more likely it will be that bad decisions at the highest levels will be made in the future and more lives lost.
You don't think the Government is working in your best interests currently?  Why not?  Can I ask - would stockpiling eye protection gear have been the first thing a Labour Government would have actioned on winning a December election, in your view?  And if the government had spent billions on ventilators and PPE ten years ago and they had sat gathering dust for years, would they have been accused of wasting public money unnecessarily I wonder?  I expect so.  But have it your way, I'm tired of arguing about this now.  I believe the time for holding the government to account is once the crisis has passed, you believe it is right to pile on the pressure now, when they are already struggling to do their best, which is what I believe they are doing, you seem to believe they are incompetent morons, and seem to positively relish saying so at every opportunity.  How helpful, how constructive, how charitable, how kind. 
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #221 on: March 29, 2020, 03:39:50 PM »
Heymann noted that, for all the debate about changes of government strategy and delays in implementing serious measures, Britain has not yet seen its healthcare facilities overwhelmed.

“We have been able to deal with the cases so far, there is an alliance with the private sector making additional beds and ventilators available if they need them,” he said. “And the government has been notifying those at highest risk.

“I think they have been doing what is necessary in the UK, as are many other countries. They may have used a different mixture in the UK, but no one can say at this point what is right or wrong. In two to three weeks when they do their risk assessments, they will be looking to see if they’ve accomplished the goal of what they set out to do,” said Heymann.

Who is Heymann? 

Born in America but now based in London, Heymann was known for a long time as a “disease cowboy”, saddling up for action at every sign of ebola, smallpox, monkeypox, measles, tuberculosis and now Covid-19. He lived for 13 years in Africa before moving to Geneva with the WHO. He later became professor of infectious disease epidemiology at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine and served for five years as chairman of Public Health England.

“one of the world’s foremost experts on infectious disease”

An expert, in other words.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #222 on: March 29, 2020, 04:02:12 PM »
A majority of just over 1000 people have said they have faith in Johnson and his government....whereas almost all the medical experts asked to comment have expressed dismay in his sluggish handling of this crisis....who to take notice of...mmmm it’s a hard one.

Richard horton is one of the govt biggest expert critics...you may have seen him on question time this week. what you probably didnt see was a tweet he made on 24th  Jan ....compared to other countries Boris seems to be doing a good job....as a corbyn supporter its not surprising that really annoys you.



richard horton
@richardhorton1
·
24 Jan
A call for caution please. Media are escalating anxiety by talking of a “killer virus” + “growing fears”. In truth, from what we currently know, 2019-nCoV has moderate transmissibility and relatively low pathogenicity. There is no reason to foster panic with exaggerated language.

Offline faithlilly

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #223 on: March 29, 2020, 04:42:30 PM »
You don't think the Government is working in your best interests currently?  Why not?  Can I ask - would stockpiling eye protection gear have been the first thing a Labour Government would have actioned on winning a December election, in your view?  And if the government had spent billions on ventilators and PPE ten years ago and they had sat gathering dust for years, would they have been accused of wasting public money unnecessarily I wonder?  I expect so.  But have it your way, I'm tired of arguing about this now.  I believe the time for holding the government to account is once the crisis has passed, you believe it is right to pile on the pressure now, when they are already struggling to do their best, which is what I believe they are doing, you seem to believe they are incompetent morons, and seem to positively relish saying so at every opportunity.  How helpful, how constructive, how charitable, how kind.

Be kind to your fellow humans, be charitable to those in need, be constructive when the circumstances allow but never, ever be silent when your government is risking further lives by their inaction.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline faithlilly

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #224 on: March 29, 2020, 04:46:08 PM »
Heymann noted that, for all the debate about changes of government strategy and delays in implementing serious measures, Britain has not yet seen its healthcare facilities overwhelmed.

“We have been able to deal with the cases so far, there is an alliance with the private sector making additional beds and ventilators available if they need them,” he said. “And the government has been notifying those at highest risk.

“I think they have been doing what is necessary in the UK, as are many other countries. They may have used a different mixture in the UK, but no one can say at this point what is right or wrong. In two to three weeks when they do their risk assessments, they will be looking to see if they’ve accomplished the goal of what they set out to do,” said Heymann.

Who is Heymann? 

Born in America but now based in London, Heymann was known for a long time as a “disease cowboy”, saddling up for action at every sign of ebola, smallpox, monkeypox, measles, tuberculosis and now Covid-19. He lived for 13 years in Africa before moving to Geneva with the WHO. He later became professor of infectious disease epidemiology at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine and served for five years as chairman of Public Health England.

“one of the world’s foremost experts on infectious disease”

An expert, in other words.

The WHO are firm that what governments should be doing now is testing, testing, testing. Our government has failed to supply tests to essential healthcare workers never mind the general public. Your thoughts ?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?