Author Topic: Strange Witness Statements  (Read 592543 times)

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Offline pathfinder73

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #255 on: December 18, 2013, 10:29:04 PM »
Oh yes, I remember, and you might be right. Then he took the path and after turning right turned left toward the G4 car park. But then Ms Tanner can't have seen him. In that case she saw Innocentman..

She may have seen him if she saw him passing Madeleine's front bedroom window/car park entrance going towards the wasteland. I wonder if she changed the direction due to other influences as one would know which direction he was seen going in and would want to change that at all costs 8)-))) If that was Smithman then he didn't use a bag.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 10:34:06 PM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline pegasus

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #256 on: December 18, 2013, 10:36:21 PM »
Re the statement of Costa (GNR), "a correr" can mean either "running", OR "hurrying" which is in accord with JT's account.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 10:38:29 PM by pegasus »

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #257 on: December 18, 2013, 10:39:48 PM »
She may have seen him if she saw him passing Madeleine's front bedroom window/car park entrance going towards the wasteland. I wonder if she changed the direction due to other influences as one would know which direction he was seen going in and would want to change that at all costs 8)-))) If that was Smithman then he didn't use a bag.
Oh I didn't read properly, instead I remembered your hypothesis of the flower bed and I assumed it was used for a while. The path route actually would be safer, since the path was very dark and nobody searched it, while the north route was risky.
If only DCI RW had said a word about the carrying way, we could discard Tannerman.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #258 on: December 18, 2013, 10:42:17 PM »
It's very interesting that Jane Tanner may in fact have caught Smithman in action but he had to be going in the other direction towards the wasteland as Sylvia Batista reported Jane as saying on the first night IMO.

"The deponent found that situation strange because she was convinced that when she saw this man, the lady was positioned in a spot that has no viewing angle to the location where she had seen the man (My note: Jane saw man not from the road but from the front of the apartments). She doesn't know exactly where the lady was positioned when she saw the man passing by, but she knows that she indicated that she saw him passing on the street that lies in front of the window to the bedroom where Madeleine was (My note: car park entrance where she may have saw him crossing. Smithman leaves from back side gate where Gerry and Jez had just been talking), walking into the direction of the street that leads to the Baptista supermarket (My note: towards wasteland)."

« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 10:46:24 PM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #259 on: December 18, 2013, 10:47:35 PM »
walking into the direction of the street that leads to the Baptista supermarket (My note: towards wasteland)."
No, it's not wasteland, it's Francisco Gentil Martins.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #260 on: December 18, 2013, 10:55:12 PM »
Thanks well I can't see that working i.e. heading towards the tapas bar. You would go the opposite way if it was Madeleine.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline pegasus

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #261 on: December 18, 2013, 11:15:02 PM »
I think Ms Tanner is an honest person. She wanted to help. She's easy to manipulate though, a documentary that shows it.
IMO she is a completely honest person.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #262 on: December 18, 2013, 11:56:10 PM »
Maybe she is honest but she didn't walk past Gerry and Jez on the same side of the road. That is impossible. If she's telling the truth of seeing Tannerman which I believe she is and he was heading towards Murat's than I believe that is not Smithman and he is an Innocent man as SY seem to think.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 11:59:19 PM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #263 on: December 19, 2013, 12:19:57 AM »
Maybe she is honest but she didn't walk past Gerry and Jez on the same side of the road. That is impossible. If she's telling the truth of seeing Tannerman which I believe she is and he was heading towards Murat's than I believe that is not Smithman and he is an Innocent man as SY seem to think.
As you reckoned she's rather easy to influence (see the "reconstruction") and a lot of pressure was on her. She for some reason thought she had to send the PJ away from the group and adjusted her sighting to the situation. She might have seen Innocentman when she went back to the Tapas at 21h20, but Mr McCann had left.
If Smithman left through the alley path, I don't see how Ms Tanner could have seen him.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #264 on: December 19, 2013, 12:29:40 AM »
I need to check the path but there's balconies on that side and he could've been seen from above but I need to take a closer look. The trees are blocking the front way/pavement even though the road is open for possible eye witnesses. That's why I think a bag would be used for concealment going the pavement way towards the wasteland.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #265 on: December 19, 2013, 12:33:39 AM »
I need to check the path but there's balconies on that side and he could've been seen from above but I need to take a closer look. The trees are blocking the front way/pavement even though the road is open for possible eye witnesses. That's why I think a bag would be used for concealment going the pavement way towards the wasteland.
The alley path was dark with a high wall on one side and vegetation on the other.
Smithman had no bag.

Offline pegasus

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #266 on: December 20, 2013, 12:20:39 AM »
(In a sense it's a witness statement, so seemed like the best thread to put it on). In the Crimewatch programme, at one point in time the lady interviewer is holding her glasses in her hand at a certain angle. Then whooosh instantaneously in the next frame the glasses in her hand are rotated 90 degrees. There is no transition through intermediate angles. How to explain that?


Offline pathfinder73

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #267 on: December 20, 2013, 12:42:28 PM »
Before the new search a comprehensive geological survey, from air, land and sea, would be carried out. We found out only later (much later) that the UK team had been instructed by the PJ to proceed on the basis that Madeleine had been killed and her body dumped. They would be using GPR (ground-penetrating radar) for detecting ground disturbance, devices for penetrating walls and specialist dogs. The police files reveal that the NPIA were willing to assist with searches based on other suppositions but this had to be at the PJ’s request. Evidently there was no such request. No other theories were to be considered at this point, it seems.

This search, the second or maybe even the third over the same terrain, would encompass the land identified by Danie Krugel (it would later be extended to include both Robert Murat’s villa and apartment 5A at the Ocean Club). Although we didn’t, in our rational moments, set much store by his results, we were keen for this area to be checked just to make sure. And such a search didn’t necessarily mean turning up a body; it could reveal vital clues. By now we were more than familiar with cases where evidence had been missed the first time round and discovered on further searches (in one instance the UK police had told us about, a wallet sitting in a bush). At this stage, I was also still giving some credence to the information we were receiving from psychics, some of whom were suggesting that we should scour nearby territory again. Whatever everyone else’s reasons, we needed to be sure that everything had been done as meticulously and extensively as possible.

What's this wallet sitting in a bush reference about?
« Last Edit: December 20, 2013, 01:49:11 PM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #268 on: December 26, 2013, 12:10:51 AM »
"After David left, Kate dressed and sat with the children, Madeleine on her lap. She was wearing a top, she doesn’t remember what colour it was, a green long-sleeved t-shirt, blue denim trousers. Sports shoes and white socks."

Wearing jeans?

"She says that the sofa (letter E) supposedly was against the side window, because she doesn’t remember anyone having gone behind it."

The crumpled curtain is unusual? Did the cleaner leave it like that or somebody else?

"Gerry was wearing blue denim trousers and sports shoes. She doesn’t remember what else he was wearing. She thinks that before she left she put on a cream coloured polar fleece with a zipper, and on top a blue raincoat, also with a zipper. Concerning Gerry, she doesn’t know if he put on any other clothing items."

Gerry was also wearing jeans?
« Last Edit: December 26, 2013, 02:15:08 PM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Victoria

Re: Strange Witness Statements
« Reply #269 on: December 27, 2013, 02:35:30 PM »
Before the new search a comprehensive geological survey, from air, land and sea, would be carried out. We found out only later (much later) that the UK team had been instructed by the PJ to proceed on the basis that Madeleine had been killed and her body dumped. They would be using GPR (ground-penetrating radar) for detecting ground disturbance, devices for penetrating walls and specialist dogs. The police files reveal that the NPIA were willing to assist with searches based on other suppositions but this had to be at the PJ’s request. Evidently there was no such request. No other theories were to be considered at this point, it seems.

This search, the second or maybe even the third over the same terrain, would encompass the land identified by Danie Krugel (it would later be extended to include both Robert Murat’s villa and apartment 5A at the Ocean Club). Although we didn’t, in our rational moments, set much store by his results, we were keen for this area to be checked just to make sure. And such a search didn’t necessarily mean turning up a body; it could reveal vital clues. By now we were more than familiar with cases where evidence had been missed the first time round and discovered on further searches (in one instance the UK police had told us about, a wallet sitting in a bush). At this stage, I was also still giving some credence to the information we were receiving from psychics, some of whom were suggesting that we should scour nearby territory again. Whatever everyone else’s reasons, we needed to be sure that everything had been done as meticulously and extensively as possible.

What's this wallet sitting in a bush reference about?

What a strange question to ask. What exactly are you getting at/don't you understand?