Former Scotland Yard detective Jon Wedger talks to ex BBC and ITV reporter Anna Brees about a child prostitution cover up in central London and how he was bullied by a senior officer, currently a very high ranking official at the Metropolitan Police, when he tried to publicly expose it.-
-
This force is the very people looking for what happened to Maddie so what could they also be covering up IMO
The Establishment in London is unimaginably powerful, one only needs to look at who is now embroiled in the sordid Jeffrey Epstein affair and refuses to speak to the FBI about his involvement. Do truly innocent people really behave like this???
Do you believe that this unimaginably powerful London establishment is embroiled in the case of Madeleine's disappearance?
Well at the moment they are the only ones looking for Maddie - that everyone has so much faith in.
Y
Well at the moment they are the only ones looking for Maddie - that everyone has so much faith in.
I haven't had a good look yet but this person seems to be impressed by R D Hall....believes the McCanns are guilty..and doesn't seem to understand the evidence in the case. I've no doubt there are elements of corruption in the Met as there are with any police organisation.....But apart from his view that Kate should repent to Jesus before being possessed by Satan...I don't see the relevance to the case
Do you believe as some do, that SY are "covering up" or at last ignoring information which would pont to Madeleine's parents being involved in her disappearance?
At some point between July 2008 and and the beginning of Operation Grange's investigative review it was decided that there had been an abduction in Portugal on 3rd May 2007.
That decision wasn't made by the Portuguese authorities; they were unable to decide why Madeleine McCann disappeared, so it must have been made in the UK.
Until Operation Grange deliver their promised transparency and openness it's not known why or how they reached the conclusion that an abduction had occured.
Therefore it's not unreasonable to suspect (taking into account the evidence of Colin Sutton) that Operation Grange was instructed which crime to investigate.
I haven't had a good look yet but this person seems to be impressed by R D Hall....believes the McCanns are guilty..and doesn't seem to understand the evidence in the case. I've no doubt there are elements of corruption in the Met as there are with any police organisation.....But apart from his view that Kate should repent to Jesus before being possessed by Satan...I don't see the relevance to the case
At some point between July 2008 and and the beginning of Operation Grange's investigative review it was decided that there had been an abduction in Portugal on 3rd May 2007.
That decision wasn't made by the Portuguese authorities; they were unable to decide why Madeleine McCann disappeared, so it must have been made in the UK.
Until Operation Grange deliver their promised transparency and openness it's not known why or how they reached the conclusion that an abduction had occured.
Therefore it's not unreasonable to suspect (taking into account the evidence of Colin Sutton) that Operation Grange was instructed which crime to investigate.
The relevance is very obvious. McCann case MET police.
I haven't had a good look yet but this person seems to be impressed by R D Hall....believes the McCanns are guilty..and doesn't seem to understand the evidence in the case. I've no doubt there are elements of corruption in the Met as there are with any police organisation.....But apart from his view that Kate should repent to Jesus before being possessed by Satan...I don't see the relevance to the case
Then it's no more relevant to the mccann case than to every other case the met are investigating.
So every report of corruption and criminal activity in the pJ is relevant to the mccann case
I haven't had chance to watch the video yet...have any of his claims re abuse been substantiated..
I saw this statement from him
But in a series of videoed interviews sent to the consumerwatchfoundation.com Wedger, who now lives on his police pension, says the upper echelons of British society are riddled with Satanic abuse
But surely it must make you wonder - could they be covering up evidence that could put the blame elsewhere.
Is this why they keep wanting more money to keep it live - so no one else can take over.
And therefore they will ignore any information, facts, suspicions that Madeleine's parents were involved in her disappearance?
IMO you should have watched it before you commented - instead of coming straight in to ridicule him.
Colin Sutton said that the case had areas which were off limits to investigators.
IMO you should have watched it before you commented - instead of coming straight in to ridicule him.
Colin Sutton said that the case had areas which were off limits to investigators.
How does he know that?
Do you believe that these "areas" would be any "areas" which could be related to Madeleine's parents being involved?
I have watched it.
Did I miss a reference to Madeleine's disappearance?
He says he was told. The remit said Operation Grange was going to investigate as if the abduction occured in the UK. Do you think her parents abducted her?
Did I say there was one - think you should look back on that.
Cite....are you changing his words to suit your agenda
Yes I know he says he was told that.
Could you answer my original question.
Do you think it possible that during all the past years of Operation Grange that any fact, information or suspicion that Madeleine's parents were involved in her disappearance would be ignored or covered up?
I think it is possible, yes.
So it has no relevance at all to Madeleine's disappearance.
Why would all the officers involved in Operation Grange over the past years ignore or cover up such facts, suspicions or information?
The relevance is that it is the same force looking for Maddie.
If you watched it - you missed it 36 mins into it.
How do you know they haven't - or probably afraid the same would happen as to JW.
There is only about four of them anyway
John, John. They've gone Off Topic on Your Thread.
Why would they?
Why would all the officers involved in Operation Grange over the past years ignore or cover up such facts, suspicions or information?
He says he was told. The remit said Operation Grange was going to investigate as if the abduction occured in the UK. Do you think her parents abducted her?
I don't think the remit limits the investigation to abduction. Redwood said Maddie may not have left the apartment alive which proved SY were not limited to abduction
Redwood had a pension on that line I previously referred to. He took his orders from the top.
Because that is what they do - you have seen the video fgs
Well let's see....maybe they were told to?
Police officers are often threatened that they will be suspended, lose their job and all other manner of things if they don't tow the line.
Why would they be told to.
Covering up what?
Protecting whom?
It doesn't make sense, does it.
Why would all the officers involved in Operation Grange over the past years ignore or cover up such facts, suspicions or information?
What makes you think all the officers were involved?
Colin Sutton's name was mentioned by the News of the World on 9th May 2010;
BRITAIN'S top murder cop has been lined up to spearhead a new probe into
the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, we can reveal.
Det Chief Insp Colin Sutton, 49, who has been involved in some of the
UK's biggest inquiries - including the murder of Milly Dowler and the terror
reign of the Nightstalker sex beast - is seen as the best man to handle
the challenging review.
https://themaddiecasefiles.com/top-cop-spearheads-new-probe-into-the-disapp-09-05-t24196.html
A few days later Sutton was contacted by a senior Met officer who told him he;
would do better to avoid the McCann investigation if it did happen, because "You wouldn't be happy leading an investigation where you were told what you could look at and what you could not".
http://colinsutton.blogspot.com/2017/05/madeleine-mccann-and-operation-grange_9.html
Just because he says so......isn't a cite.
Nor does it mean that the police officers in Operation Grange were doing so!
Why would they be told to.
Covering up what?
Protecting whom?
this is the quote I expected and as ive said...the PJ tell SY what they can and cannot look at
Former Met officer Jon Wedger has alleged that a very senior individual current at Scotland Yard, an individual who is most probably overseeing the McCann case, has a questionable past when it came to investigating child prostitution in London. The questions for me is firstly, why has this individual not been investigated and secondly, who is protecting him?
Nobody is saying that OG is involved in any cover up, the point which has been well made is that such corruption exists within the Met so the potential is there. The reference in the McCann case comes from Sutton who as a very senior officer within the Met was warned off taking over the investigation as there were allegedly lines of enquiry which were off limits. I have yet to hear anyone explain why this should be the case unless events have occurred which they don't want to be made public.
According to Sutton there were restrictions in place before OG even began. According to David Cameron it was set up to help the parents.
The first question I ask is how reliable is this witness and from what I can see ..not very
So do his allegations have any evidence to support them. His allegations in the McCann case and Jersey certainly don't.
Former Met officer Jon Wedger has alleged that a very senior individual currently in post at Scotland Yard, an individual who is most probably overseeing the McCann case, has a questionable past when it came to investigating child prostitution in London. The question for me is firstly, why has this individual not been investigated and secondly, who is protecting him?
One has to be careful not to confuse personal experience with opinion. On this thread we are debating his claim that he was personally bullied into looking the other way when he had uncovered a massive child prostitution ring in London.
Yes, presumably to help Madeleine's parents to further the case of her disappearance not to help them cover up any involvement.
Don't you think?
Nobody is saying that OG is involved in any cover up, the point which has been well made is that such corruption exists within the Met so the potential is there. The reference in the McCann case comes from Sutton who as a very senior officer within the Met was warned off taking over the investigation as there were allegedly lines of enquiry which were off limits. I have yet to hear anyone explain why this should be the case unless events have occurred which they don't want to be made public.
Do we have any proof that Sutton was warned off? Which Very Senior Police Officer warned him? Strangely, No Name was given.
So another piece of Anonymous nonsense.
As you only presume - why do they want to keep asking for more money.
If they had anything surely it would be a police matter.
IMO it could be to keep the pretense they are onto something - long enough to explain what they are spending the money on.
SY is capable of anything - a law unto themselves IMO
Sutton stated this in a public interview which has since been widely viewed.
"The remit and the focus of Operation Grange has been so narrow that it probably was hobbled from the beginning and didn't really have a chance at succeeding."
"I was privately told by a senior officer that it was going to be an investigation where you were told what things you could and couldn't look at," Mr Sutton said.
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/top-murder-cop-claims-phone-call-warned-him-off-maddie-case/ar-AAAPv9M
Sutton stated this in a public interview which has since been widely viewed.
"The remit and the focus of Operation Grange has been so narrow that it probably was hobbled from the beginning and didn't really have a chance at succeeding."
"I was privately told by a senior officer that it was going to be an investigation where you were told what things you could and couldn't look at," Mr Sutton said.
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/top-murder-cop-claims-phone-call-warned-him-off-maddie-case/ar-AAAPv9M
So it's all a pretence so they can keep the investigation going until they have had time to explain what they have been investigating??
Are Operation Grange not the police?
That's right...they have to ask the PJ if they want to investigate anything.
Former Scotland yard detectives expose cover-up with met don't you know who OG are seriously.
seems the money is spent well.
The £1,240 flights were revealed in a Freedom of Information request made by the Daily Star Sunday - and also showed £811 was claimed for one officer’s accommodation.
Scotland Yard confirmed the trips to The Sun Online - but refused to confirm if they were made as part of the missing girl probe.
Det Chief Insp Nicola Wall is the senior investigating officer on the case and, in addition to the accommodation claim, he lodged an £80 receipt for taxis to and from UK airports.
DCI Wall is part of the Operation Grange investigating team working to solve the mystery of Maddie’s disappearance.
The probe recently secured £150,000 in funding from the Home Office.
Lol. You were the one who suggested OG were not the police.
I ask again what has this to do with SY investigating Madeleine's disappearance?
You obviously think Operation Grange is corrupt?
Really? I don't believe that. Britain is investigating the disappearance of a British Citizen for which Britain is paying.As I understand SY cannot not investigate with the permission of the PJ. For instance they wanted the DNA of the three burglars but their request was refused. What do you think all the ilors were about
Unless anyone believes that Portugal is interfering with the course of justice.
Lol. You were the one who suggested OG were not the police.
I ask again what has this to do with SY investigating Madeleine's disappearance?
You obviously think Operation Grange is corrupt?
Lol. You were the one who suggested OG were not the police.
I ask again what has this to do with SY investigating Madeleine's disappearance?
You obviously think Operation Grange is corrupt?
I believe the entire OG fiasco is nothing more than an attempt to shift the blame to somebody, anybody.
Deceased Tractorman from the Azores, Computerman, Smellyman, German Paedophileman, Spottyman, Stallman, Fisherman, Vanman, Handyman, Charityman, Maskedman, Scruffyman and a few others come to mind yet all the time Smithman who was identified remains officially unidentified. You couldn't make it up if you tried. @)(++(*
Have I forgotten anyone??
why should Grange want to shift the blame...what would the motive be
As I understand SY cannot not investigate with the permission of the PJ. For instance they wanted the DNA of the three burglars but their request was refused. What do you think all the ilors were about
Use your imagination Davel, you know, the one you usually engage.
One has to be careful not to confuse personal experience with opinion. On this thread we are debating his claim that he was personally bullied into looking the other way when he had uncovered a massive child prostitution ring in London.
Use your imagination Davel, you know, the one you usually engage.
Not a good enough answer, in my opinion. Just a put down. And rather rude, actually.
That's right...they have to ask the PJ if they want to investigate anything.
Which I imagine could be quite frustrating at times'
Snip
A local source said : "The judge who examines the requests, contained in international 'Letters of Request' sent by Scotland Yard's did not consider the arguments to be valid enough to warrant searching the workers' homes.
"The British detectives wanted the Portuguese authorities to carry out home searches because those in question worked at the Ocean Club when Madeleine went missing were deemed to be key to the investigation.
"But the Portuguese judge is satisfied that the correct procedures were followed at the time Madeleine disappeared and there is not need to revisit that part of the investigation."
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/madeline-mccann-search-portuguese-judge-7084953
Former Met officer Jon Wedger has alleged that a very senior individual currently in post at Scotland Yard, an individual who is most probably overseeing the McCann case, has a questionable past when it came to investigating child prostitution in London. The question for me is firstly, why has this individual not been investigated and secondly, who is protecting him?Apart from him saying so, what is the evidence that backs up his claims?
As I understand SY cannot not investigate with the permission of the PJ. For instance they wanted the DNA of the three burglars but their request was refused. What do you think all the ilors were about
The PJ wanted details of the McCann's credit card expenditure and were refused by the UK. ILOR's are a request, not an order.
I’m very surprised and disappointed at John for bringing this utter trash to the forum. A little bit of research would reveal all you need to know about this supposed whistleblower. You’d think after the case of Tom Watson and his child abuse whistleblower that never was people would be a little less gullible.
As I understand SY cannot not investigate with the permission of the PJ. For instance they wanted the DNA of the three burglars but their request was refused. What do you think all the ilors were about
He's alright in my book for his work on the poor lad, BabyP death.
A FORMER detective commended for his work on the Baby P investigation is suing police after claiming he was bullied for exposing child abuse and corruption.
John Wedger said he was forced into early retirement from the Metropolitan Police after suffering a breakdown last year brought on by post traumatic stress disorder.
The former detective constable has begun a civil claim against Scotland Yard seeking damages for psychiatric injury arising from work-related stress.
Mr Wedger said he was bullied after filing an intelligence report alleging that some of his colleagues knew a prostitute was pimping out girls as young as nine but turned a blind eye.
He claimed he was told by a high-ranking Met officer to keep quiet or be “thrown to the wolves”.
Last night father-of-four Mr Wedger said: “I joined the police to serve the community and make a difference. I have wholeheartedly, loyally and relentlessly pursued, arrested and prosecuted those I was tasked to target.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/878384/baby-peter-detective-john-wedger-investigation-child-abuse-prostitution/amp
I believe the entire OG fiasco is nothing more than an attempt to shift the blame to somebody, anybody.
Deceased Tractorman from the Azores, Computerman, Smellyman, German Paedophileman, Spottyman, Stallman, Fisherman, Vanman, Handyman, Charityman, Maskedman, Scruffyman and a few others come to mind yet all the time Smithman who was identified remains officially unidentified. You couldn't make it up if you tried. @)(++(*
Have I forgotten anyone??
You seem to be willing to ignore the evidence...the most significant point in that story to me is that he's suffering psychiatric problems...at least he's got that right
You seem to be willing to ignore the evidence he was commended for his work on the babyP investigation.
You seem to be willing to ignore the evidence he was commended for his work on the babyP investigation.I suggest you extend your research into this man beyond one Daily Express article.
You seem to be willing to ignore the evidence he was commended for his work on the babyP investigation.He's got a good interview on the David Icke forum..it just shows how gullible sceptics are imo
You seem to be willing to ignore the evidence he was commended for his work on the babyP investigation.
You seem to be willing to ignore the evidence he was commended for his work on the babyP investigation.who said he was commended on the baby p case..probably made that up too
There wasn't a lot to investigate in The Baby P Case.Commendable after the fact.
Yet he believes Lenny Harper exposed a cover up of child murder in Jersey...that the coconut was really a child's skull between 4 and 10 yes old...he had information that the McCann's were swingers and Maddie died from over sedation...satanic child abuse is rife in the upper echelons...he's a totally misguided fantasistPerhaps he follows Textusa’s forum and got the ‘swinger’ angle there?
I really don't know what to think about this man. Can't believe the Met would cover up child prostitution, especially as they did that huge investigation recently that cost millions and proved the man was lying. Could it be that plain clothed detectives were under cover investigating what he had found and they didn't want him damaging that investigation? Don't know.He hasn't named any names.....just accusations...
He hasn't named any names.....just accusations...
He has said that Jar 6 at Jersey was a piece of human skull from a child but the seal had been tampered with...that Lenny Harper exposed the cover up a child deaths
If he's willing to promote rubbish like that then I think his accusations re the met are rubbish. He's in there with the conspiracy theorists
Plus he admits he's had psychiatric problems
You're in denial davel.
You're in denial davel.
You're in denial davel.About what? what established facts is Davel denying? Please clarify.
You're in denial davel.
I think that there are conclusions to be reached when the narrative is broadened to include a much more comprehensive list of sources than the single source which those of us intermittent visitors to CMOMM are unfamiliar with.
It is allegedly very difficult for a policeman to complain because action will be taken against you which will damage your career and character;
This is what happens to police whistleblowers.
Be prepared, call now for advice from those who have been there!
"Shooting the Messenger"
While one should try to be positive about the subject of accountability and the various policies, procedures and agencies that exist to encourage the reporting of wrongdoing, in reality your disclosures will not be welcomed.
This assertion is corroborated by the lack of support from forces and the IPCC when the chips are down. Correspondence from the Home Office advises officers who have written to them to take their matters to the Employment Tribunal rather than the Home Office taking any positive action to deal with the allegations of corruption which have been raised.
It is important for a police officer or member of police staff to be aware of what they might expect in the worst scenario.
Police officers and staff are at a distinct disadvantage as they are unable to make a ‘complaint' against a colleague in the police service and do not have the same rights as a member of the public who can appeal to the IOPC(Independent Office for Police Conduct). This a standard response to police officers when contacting the IPCC.
It is a worthwhile exercise when thinking about reforms to ask why police forces respond in the specific non-accountable ways that they sometimes do. One could roughly arrange these by the degree of defensiveness to which a police force/employer feels driven.
Hot air
The force will appear at first to share your concern. Many fine words will be generated, insubstantial memoranda may fly about, a meeting may be convened, and promises will be made. No action will be taken, except
perhaps the most trivial. At a later date any conversation not recorded on paper may be strenuously denied.
Send to Coventry
A change of mood comes over certain managers and colleagues. Initially this is quite subtle. Greetings, smiles and friendly banter are less frequent. At first you brush it off. Then it becomes more pronounced. Eyebrows are
raised, you are avoided and left out of events and decisions, sarcastic comments are made. If you mention it you may find that your mental health is questioned.
Close ranks
It is clear that what you said to one colleague or manager has been passed on, and possibly distorted, to his or her peers. When you approach a manager further up the line it is clear that they have been forewarned. Your
concern has somehow created an anti-you group. You are identified as a 'trouble-maker' by most people with any authority, and any attempt to raise your concern is now pre-empted and prejudged. Some of your colleagues feel that your complaint demeans them by implication.
Stonewall
When you raise your concerns formally you find that your letters are unanswered, the manager is never available, promises to 'get back to you' are broken, you are passed on to someone who eventually sends you a letter thanking you for raising the concerns and the matter has been investigated. You may be told directly not to send any more reports or letters.
Biomedical diagnosis
It is suggested that you have been under a 'lot of stress lately' and that you ought to visit the occupational health department, seek counselling or visit your GP. You are asked if you are 'coping'. It emerges, unknown to you, that you have been informally diagnosed as anxious, depressed, paranoid, having a personality disorder, or as being 'neurotic'.
Spying
A colleague is passing on information about you (and has, perhaps, been asked to do so). You are the object of close observation, fault-finding, and perhaps your e-mail and telephone conversations are being monitored. Some of your work goes wrong or astray and you wonder about sabotage. If you mention this it is taken as further evidence that you are unable to cope or are 'paranoid'.
Grind down
Work becomes more difficult. Your workload increases, you get the unpopular cases or incidents. Your attempts at promotion are made difficult and your appraisals are unfairly written and do not accurately reflect your
performance. You may be transferred to another station or department and your request for leave and time off are refused without valid reasons
Sticks and carrots
An intermediary, usually a non-independent person is chosen to act as a facilitator and will call you aside for 'a chat' and you may feel that at last you are getting somewhere. Your career prospects may be discussed, the
suggestion being that you drop your complaints. Alternatively, or if you refuse to accept the carrot, veiled threats will be made such as 'Are you sure you wouldn't be happier working elsewhere?' These become overt threats such as 'You are jeopardizing your future' and 'you won't be working here much longer'. If you raised concerns about colleagues, you may find that you become a victim of harassment.
Character assassination
Aspersions will be cast on your character, your personal conduct, your
personal past, your political views, your class or ethnic origin, or your sexual orientation. These may progress to accusations of your own misconduct including criminal, theft of documents, lying, disloyalty, breach of confidentiality, and the like.
First strike
Official counter-complaints may be formulated against you in a disciplinary hearing before your own concerns are addressed or instead of addressing them. You may be made a scapegoat. Disciplinary or grievance procedures may be used and abused as a pre-emptive or retaliatory measure. The force will attempt to get their revenge in first.
Second strike
If you manage to get through the first strike, your force may abuse their powers and decide to maliciously investigate you on suspicion of a criminal offence, your home may be searched and you will be interviewed in a custody suite to cause you the maximum amount of distress.
You may be charged and relevant evidence is witheld from the crown prosecution service.
You may be wrongly convicted and spend many years trying to clear your name and searching for evidence which has been destroyed.
Dismissed
If you remain in the force; your presence is no longer tolerable. You may be wrongly suspended and then dismissed or there may be a reorganisation in which your post is made redundant.
Even if aquitted at a criminal court, the force will use discipline as a second bite of the cherry to get rid of you.
Cosmetic reshuffle
If your concerns were of a serious nature, especially if an inquiry took place, then there will be some changes at your workplace of a cosmetic nature.
Some posts may be reshuffled, but it is unlikely that policies will be revised or that managerial heads will roll.
Certainly no acknowledgement will be made that there is any connection between your raising a concern and the
changes which followed.
https://www.ipsg.co.uk/shooting-the-messenger
It is allegedly very difficult for a policeman to complain because action will be taken against you which will damage your career and character;
This is what happens to police whistleblowers.
Be prepared, call now for advice from those who have been there!
"Shooting the Messenger"
While one should try to be positive about the subject of accountability and the various policies, procedures and agencies that exist to encourage the reporting of wrongdoing, in reality your disclosures will not be welcomed.
This assertion is corroborated by the lack of support from forces and the IPCC when the chips are down. Correspondence from the Home Office advises officers who have written to them to take their matters to the Employment Tribunal rather than the Home Office taking any positive action to deal with the allegations of corruption which have been raised.
It is important for a police officer or member of police staff to be aware of what they might expect in the worst scenario.
Police officers and staff are at a distinct disadvantage as they are unable to make a ‘complaint' against a colleague in the police service and do not have the same rights as a member of the public who can appeal to the IOPC(Independent Office for Police Conduct). This a standard response to police officers when contacting the IPCC.
It is a worthwhile exercise when thinking about reforms to ask why police forces respond in the specific non-accountable ways that they sometimes do. One could roughly arrange these by the degree of defensiveness to which a police force/employer feels driven.
Hot air
The force will appear at first to share your concern. Many fine words will be generated, insubstantial memoranda may fly about, a meeting may be convened, and promises will be made. No action will be taken, except
perhaps the most trivial. At a later date any conversation not recorded on paper may be strenuously denied.
Send to Coventry
A change of mood comes over certain managers and colleagues. Initially this is quite subtle. Greetings, smiles and friendly banter are less frequent. At first you brush it off. Then it becomes more pronounced. Eyebrows are
raised, you are avoided and left out of events and decisions, sarcastic comments are made. If you mention it you may find that your mental health is questioned.
Close ranks
It is clear that what you said to one colleague or manager has been passed on, and possibly distorted, to his or her peers. When you approach a manager further up the line it is clear that they have been forewarned. Your
concern has somehow created an anti-you group. You are identified as a 'trouble-maker' by most people with any authority, and any attempt to raise your concern is now pre-empted and prejudged. Some of your colleagues feel that your complaint demeans them by implication.
Stonewall
When you raise your concerns formally you find that your letters are unanswered, the manager is never available, promises to 'get back to you' are broken, you are passed on to someone who eventually sends you a letter thanking you for raising the concerns and the matter has been investigated. You may be told directly not to send any more reports or letters.
Biomedical diagnosis
It is suggested that you have been under a 'lot of stress lately' and that you ought to visit the occupational health department, seek counselling or visit your GP. You are asked if you are 'coping'. It emerges, unknown to you, that you have been informally diagnosed as anxious, depressed, paranoid, having a personality disorder, or as being 'neurotic'.
Spying
A colleague is passing on information about you (and has, perhaps, been asked to do so). You are the object of close observation, fault-finding, and perhaps your e-mail and telephone conversations are being monitored. Some of your work goes wrong or astray and you wonder about sabotage. If you mention this it is taken as further evidence that you are unable to cope or are 'paranoid'.
Grind down
Work becomes more difficult. Your workload increases, you get the unpopular cases or incidents. Your attempts at promotion are made difficult and your appraisals are unfairly written and do not accurately reflect your
performance. You may be transferred to another station or department and your request for leave and time off are refused without valid reasons
Sticks and carrots
An intermediary, usually a non-independent person is chosen to act as a facilitator and will call you aside for 'a chat' and you may feel that at last you are getting somewhere. Your career prospects may be discussed, the
suggestion being that you drop your complaints. Alternatively, or if you refuse to accept the carrot, veiled threats will be made such as 'Are you sure you wouldn't be happier working elsewhere?' These become overt threats such as 'You are jeopardizing your future' and 'you won't be working here much longer'. If you raised concerns about colleagues, you may find that you become a victim of harassment.
Character assassination
Aspersions will be cast on your character, your personal conduct, your
personal past, your political views, your class or ethnic origin, or your sexual orientation. These may progress to accusations of your own misconduct including criminal, theft of documents, lying, disloyalty, breach of confidentiality, and the like.
First strike
Official counter-complaints may be formulated against you in a disciplinary hearing before your own concerns are addressed or instead of addressing them. You may be made a scapegoat. Disciplinary or grievance procedures may be used and abused as a pre-emptive or retaliatory measure. The force will attempt to get their revenge in first.
Second strike
If you manage to get through the first strike, your force may abuse their powers and decide to maliciously investigate you on suspicion of a criminal offence, your home may be searched and you will be interviewed in a custody suite to cause you the maximum amount of distress.
You may be charged and relevant evidence is witheld from the crown prosecution service.
You may be wrongly convicted and spend many years trying to clear your name and searching for evidence which has been destroyed.
Dismissed
If you remain in the force; your presence is no longer tolerable. You may be wrongly suspended and then dismissed or there may be a reorganisation in which your post is made redundant.
Even if aquitted at a criminal court, the force will use discipline as a second bite of the cherry to get rid of you.
Cosmetic reshuffle
If your concerns were of a serious nature, especially if an inquiry took place, then there will be some changes at your workplace of a cosmetic nature.
Some posts may be reshuffled, but it is unlikely that policies will be revised or that managerial heads will roll.
Certainly no acknowledgement will be made that there is any connection between your raising a concern and the
changes which followed.
https://www.ipsg.co.uk/shooting-the-messenger
Allegedly...but he was leaving anyway ...so why had he still not named even one name...said
Seems like you are another who has been fooled by this fantasist imo
saidDoes nothing at all give you any reason to doubt John Wedger's "whistleblowing", or are you absolutely convinced he's telling the truth? If so, why?
Instead of jumping straight in and rubbishing what JW has said - are you not concerned or disturbed
Or is your concern and integrity only for the mccs - it should be very disturbing to anyone not just fobbed off
You only have to look at Hillsborough
said
Instead of jumping straight in and rubbishing what JW has said - are you not concerned or disturbed
Or is your concern and integrity only for the mccs - it should be very disturbing to anyone not just fobbed off
You only have to look at Hillsborough
said
Instead of jumping straight in and rubbishing what JW has said - are you not concerned or disturbed
Or is your concern and integrity only for the mccs - it should be very disturbing to anyone not just fobbed off
You only have to look at Hillsborough
You are the one who jumped in and believed him...have you read my posts from those who know more about him and his claims
What you don't know is if there is any truth in it or not - Just rather think SY squeaky clean.
Whatever you think - it's still up there for all to see.
Why hasn't it been removed?
Regardless of Wedger's credentials there is obviously a problem facing any police officer who tries to call attention to police wrongdoing. It seems the police will take steps to protect the reputation of the force before all else.
Those who think detectives working on the McCann case would raise objections to anything need to understand the difficulties they would face.
Regardless of Wedger's credentials there is obviously a problem facing any police officer who tries to call attention to police wrongdoing. It seems the police will take steps to protect the reputation of the force before all else.
Those who think detectives working on the McCann case would raise objections to anything need to understand the difficulties they would face.
Regardless of Wedger's credentials there is obviously a problem facing any police officer who tries to call attention to police wrongdoing. It seems the police will take steps to protect the reputation of the force before all else.The perfect excuse for conspiracy theorists the world over.
Those who think detectives working on the McCann case would raise objections to anything need to understand the difficulties they would face.
It's the same in every case, whistleblowers seldom escape lightly.So has John Wedger been silenced then?
It's the same in every case, whistleblowers seldom escape lightly.
More rubbish imo...it would be very easy to raise an issue anonymously on the net...it hasn't happened.
Why would SY protect the McCanns....do you have any reasons...it's seems a daft idea to me
Why should SY protect the McCann's...my opinion it's a daft idea...if they are protecting them they would have to have a reason...what is it
Yes at the end of the day - it's only your opinion doesn't make you right
Goes for anything you post - only your opinion D
I notice you're not keen to tell us why you think John Wedger is a credible whistleblower - based on what exactly?
Yes at the end of the day - it's only your opinion doesn't make you right
Goes for anything you post - only your opinion D
I notice you're not keen to tell us why you think John Wedger is a credible whistleblower - based on what exactly?he's not a whistleblower...he hasn't blown his whistle
he's not a whistleblower...he hasn't blown his whistlePerhaps they confiscated it when he had his breakdown.
If I was aware of children being abused as Wedger claims I would do something about it...not whinge about being bullied. An anonymous online post...an anonymous email to the press..but what did Wedger do....nothing..because he was frightened of being bullied
Didn't stop Saville with people having knowledge.
But I agree with you in regard to the McCann's being protected,the problem imo the MET have is the lack of progress,reducing the team to just 4 in 2015 clearly once again imo shows they have few if any leads.Rather than give in with after the embarrassment of riches thrown at it and no suspects, continuing is the only option.
As you only presume - why do they want to keep asking for more money.
If they had anything surely it would be a police matter.
IMO it could be to keep the pretense they are onto something - long enough to explain what they are spending the money on.
SY is capable of anything - a law unto themselves IMO
Ah the Government is in on it now, the big conspiracy. They have to say what they are investigating to get more money. Also they are working with Portuguese Police, are they in on it too?
The Police have just investigated huge allegations of child abuse costing millions and they are now left looking like idiots for believing the man.
Another gem concerning the MET,oh they've improved since last October.
The shaming of Scotland Yard: Scathing 'Nick' report says Met Police were more interested in covering up their mistakes over handling of fantasist Carl Beech than learning lessons from them
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8106845/Scotland-Yard-chiefs-interested-covering-mistakes-learning-them.html
As it's quite clear that as SY support the McCanns then there is an agenda amongst many sceptics to discredit the MET.
It's as simple as that.
Sceptics discredit the Met - I think they do a good job of that all by themselves.
The shaming of Scotland Yard: Scathing 'Nick' report says Met Police were more interested in covering up their mistakes over handling of fantasist Carl Beech than learning lessons from them
Met chiefs more interested in covering up mistakes than learning from them
New report revealed Scotland Yard did little to improve practices for three years
Senior officers ignored criticisms made by Sir Richard Henriques in 2016
Findings raise questions about the leadership of Metropolitan Police Commissioner Dame Cressida Dick, who took over the force in early 2017
Former High Court judge Sir Richard had identified 43 major blunders
What you don't realise is that the Met is an absolutely massive organisation and mistakes are bound to be made. Sensible people understand that imo.
It's like highlighting medical mistakes in the NHS then thinking the whole NHS is not fit for purpose...plain daft imo
They are not mistakes are they though - they are coverups.What is ...this whistleblower isn't a cover up...it's clearly fantasy
What is ...this whistleblower isn't s cover up...it's clearly fantasy
You know full well that wasn't my point so why are you twisting it - the Met is gullible it seems.
They don't do what they are supposed to do - it seems they do what they are told tod.
Probably the same thing as being told only to investigate abduction - not being impartial to get to the truth
The latest review said there was a "fine balance" between the need to take victims seriously and the need for "thorough, impartial investigations", but it was "critically important to guard against regression" given the police's track record on crime recording.
It recommended changing guidance for police officers on the "concept of belief" of a victim, to make clear that once a crime has been recorded "any investigation should be conducted impartially to establish the truth"
They are not mistakes are they though - they are coverups.
So your post has nothing to do with the thread...have you given up on that.
I don't think you are quite following the point being raised in the link you have provided, which leads us back to the question I asked you http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11288.msg577915#msg577915 "Didn't stop Saville doing what??"
Nick was a whistleblower.
He falsely accused many prominent people ~ including Saville ~ of heinous crimes up to and including murder.
The police took him at face value and ruined many lives in the process.
So ... in relation to the thread title ... what exactly is the point you are trying to make here?
Same it seems as they took mccs at face value,
Same it seems as they took mccs at face value,
.
There are coverups the thread is about coverups in the Met - these are the people looking for Maddie.
Did the Judicial Police take Madeleine's parents at 'face value' too? They were exhaustively investigated by the PJ without any charges being laid and lo and behold the PJ too have reopened Madeleine's case.
So are they in the alleged coverup conspiracy too alongside the met or do you think they have a coverup of their own?
Nonsense. They were only starting to investigate them when Amaral was removed. They were only arguido for a month when they ran back home.
Did the Judicial Police take Madeleine's parents at 'face value' too? They were exhaustively investigated by the PJ without any charges being laid and lo and behold the PJ too have reopened Madeleine's case.
So are they in the alleged coverup conspiracy too alongside the met or do you think they have a coverup of their own?
I know Mr Mitchell said the McCanns were thoroughly investigated by the PJ, but I have seen no evidence that they were.Why weren’t they then? This is the PJ we’re talking about, not Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee!
I know Mr Mitchell said the McCanns were thoroughly investigated by the PJ, but I have seen no evidence that they were.
Why weren’t they then? This is the PJ we’re talking about, not Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee!
You think that The PJ were totally incompetent?
Okay. The PJ totally overlooked whatever The McCanns were up to for what reason?
The truth is that Goncalo Amaral thought that he had just got his out of jail card. From which comes every cover up that ever happened in Portugal.
Clearly you have no knowledge of any evidence of this alleged 'exhaustive' investigating.Strange that you would be promoting the idea that the PJ were completely incompetent having so often defended them in the past.
Either The PJ did a good job, or they didn't. Do we actually have to debate this now?Be Use according to G-Unit the PJ never bothered to investigate them. What lazy articles!
Amaral had six months and found nothing. Him and his so called army. It wasn't just Amaral who found nothing, as some of you are so keen to tell me. His entire team were convinced that The McCanns were involved. So how come that none of them ever found anything?
Be Use according to G-Unit the PJ never bothered to investigate them. What lazy articles!
Are you and I on the same page here? Either Amaral investigated this and was then prevented. Or there never was anything in the first place to do with The McCanns.
How could any of this involve a Cover Up by England? For why, for God's sake? One small girl and a couple of provincial doctors.
Look to Portugal, say I. There was something very peculiar going on there. Whoever they were they picked on a bad one on that last occasion.
In my opinion it starts and finishes in Portugal.
Snip
Paulo Rebelo, based in Lisbon, takes immediate command of the inquiry, following the dismissal on October 2 of Goncalo Amaral, formerly the chief investigator, and the request by his deputy, Tavares de Almeida, to take a leave of absence.
Yesterday it emerged Mr Almeida is among three officers being investigated over allegations of torture in a seven-year old case. Mr Amaral is also under investigation, accused of concealing evidence relating to an alleged beating of the mother of another disappeared child.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/oct/09/ukcrime.madeleinemccann
I think that must signify a singularly different type of individual assigned to head up an investigation into a missing child than would normally be expected and as far as Madeleine's investigation goes has no British parallel ... and that is without adding Cristovao to the mix.
Strange that you would be promoting the idea that the PJ were completely incompetent having so often defended them in the past.
There are those who suggest that the PJ were completely incompetent and that the Metropolitan Police are vastly superior, although there's no evidence to support either opinion.If you are a police force that has id’ed its key suspects the very least you expect them to do is investigate them. At least the Met appears to have investigated numerous individuals but you are saying the PJ didn’t even bother investigating the McCanns? That’s utterly unforgivable!
I find it strange that those same people suggest that the PJ were competent when it came to investigating the McCanns; again without any evidence of that.
There is, of course, evidence that both police forces have made mistakes and that it takes a lot of courage for individual officers to speak out against the Met.
There are those who suggest that the PJ were completely incompetent and that the Metropolitan Police are vastly superior, although there's no evidence to support either opinion.
I find it strange that those same people suggest that the PJ were competent when it came to investigating the McCanns; again without any evidence of that.
There is, of course, evidence that both police forces have made mistakes and that it takes a lot of courage for individual officers to speak out against the Met.
You are wrong...there is lots of evidence. Amarals complete failure to understand the evidence...that's factual.
None of the evidence used to make the McCann's arguido was confirmed ...fact.
The allegations against the met are not re the actual officers involved in the investigation. In the case of the PJ both amaral and almeida received criminal convictions..and both directly involved in the investigation
Nonsense imo,Rowley 2017:Two points to that, firstly the involvement of the parents, that was dealt with at the time by the original investigation by the Portuguese.
Nonsense imo,Rowley 2017:Two points to that, firstly the involvement of the parents, that was dealt with at the time by the original investigation by the Portuguese.
You are wrong...there is lots of evidence. Amarals complete failure to understand the evidence...that's factual.
None of the evidence used to make the McCann's arguido was confirmed ...fact.
The allegations against the met are not re the actual officers involved in the investigation. In the case of the PJ both amaral and almeida received criminal convictions..and both directly involved in the investigation
In my opinion it starts and finishes in Portugal.
Snip
Paulo Rebelo, based in Lisbon, takes immediate command of the inquiry, following the dismissal on October 2 of Goncalo Amaral, formerly the chief investigator, and the request by his deputy, Tavares de Almeida, to take a leave of absence.
Yesterday it emerged Mr Almeida is among three officers being investigated over allegations of torture in a seven-year old case. Mr Amaral is also under investigation, accused of concealing evidence relating to an alleged beating of the mother of another disappeared child.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/oct/09/ukcrime.madeleinemccann
I think that must signify a singularly different type of individual assigned to head up an investigation into a missing child than would normally be expected and as far as Madeleine's investigation goes has no British parallel ... and that is without adding Cristovao to the mix.
It's your opinion that Amaral failed to understand the evidence, not a fact. The McCanns were made arguidos because the PJ needed to ask them questions to which the answers could be incriminating, because the evidence gathered suggested possible involvement.
Any Met officer opening his mouth about the McCann case would find him/herself in deep trouble given the sensitivity of the case. In my opinion they have all had to sign non-disclosure agreements as I suspect the Leicestershire officers did. I doubt that Sutton would have spoken out if he was still in the job.
Nonsense imo,Rowley 2017:Two points to that, firstly the involvement of the parents, that was dealt with at the time by the original investigation by the Portuguese.Please bear in mind that Amaral was sacked from the investigation which precipitately made Kate and Gerry McCann arguidos without a shred of corroborating evidence to back that decision up.
Our own UK police it seems - are not fit for purpose- any think PJ do our police can do better imo.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11129174/west-yorkshire-drugs-wars-torture-hometown-a-killing-bradford/
Citing one alleged incident, Maz claims police actually claimed to have lost files in a previous attempted murder case against Meggy.
Unable to comprehend what he was hearing, Mobeen digs into the claim and discovers reports about Meggy allegedly shooting someone in 2007, but he couldn’t find any evidence of a case brought against him.
Mobeen goes on to meet a former detective, who identifies himself as Frank. Shockingly, he backs up the claims.
Asked if police would ever 'pretend' to lose case files, Frank says: "Losing a case file is quite often used as a ploy, I know that from my own experience.”
Are you suggesting that Madeleine's disappearance has anything at all to do with the drug wars which we have been told was Amaral's area of expertise?
Is it your suggestion that police involvement with 'informers' as detailed in the link provided by you has relevance to Madeleine's case and how the Portuguese police dealt with it?
As far as I can see from your link the police successfully brought miscreants to trial in Yorkshire ... which the Amaral investigation singularly failed to do in Luz. So what point are you making?
We will never know what GA could have achieved - but what he had was an open mind and several scenarios.
What he did wrong was criticized SY [justified imo] - six months on the job.
How long as SY been on it 7 years - what have they got no open mind just abduction.
Where have they got with that - no were absolutely no were. only involved in on scandal or another imo.
Do you understand what amaral claimed he could prove...the only thing he proved was he didn't understand bthe evidence...that is fact...not opinion
What evidence the evidence that doesn't add up - some a lot more in the know than you seem to have a different opinion.
McCanns evidence 'doesn't add up'
A team of British crime specialists who have scrutinised the Madeleine McCann case claim there are inconsistencies in her parents' version of events.
Prof Barclay, 62, added: "There has been a tendency to criticise the Portuguese police but on the whole they did a pretty good job.
"However, they made two big mistakes. Firstly, they did not seal of the crime scene anywhere nearly quick enough. Secondly, in my opinion they were not aggressive enough with the McCanns in the first stage of the investigation.
"It is actually for the parents' benefit in cases like this that the police tackle them robustly and demand a comprehensive account of their movements during the relevant timeframe."
What evidence the evidence that doesn't add up - some a lot more in the know than you seem to have a different opinion.
McCanns evidence 'doesn't add up'
A team of British crime specialists who have scrutinised the Madeleine McCann case claim there are inconsistencies in her parents' version of events.
Prof Barclay, 62, added: "There has been a tendency to criticise the Portuguese police but on the whole they did a pretty good job.
"However, they made two big mistakes. Firstly, they did not seal of the crime scene anywhere nearly quick enough. Secondly, in my opinion they were not aggressive enough with the McCanns in the first stage of the investigation.
"It is actually for the parents' benefit in cases like this that the police tackle them robustly and demand a comprehensive account of their movements during the relevant timeframe."
Please bear in mind that Amaral was sacked from the investigation which precipitately made Kate and Gerry McCann arguidos without a shred of corroborating evidence to back that decision up.
Paulo Rebelo who took over the case immediately had to take over Madeleine's case from scratch. Amazingly having to take on checking elementary diligences the results of which should already have been known. For example the necessity of obtaining a court order to check the CCTV images of vehicles entering and leaving Luz at the relevant time.
As well as asking for checks to be made on an unidentified DNA sample from 3rd May which quite obviously hadn't already been previously investigated. https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAULO_REBELO.htm
That Paulo Rebelo's investigation had to attempt to play catch up in this way so long after the event when the precious golden hours of the disappearance of a child had been squandered by Amaral's investigation highlights either incompetence or corruption. Take your pick.
Rebelo's investigation was competent and thorough ... in my opinion tied up all the loose ends he inherited and I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that it was to the work of this respected officer to which Rowley referred, not the very bad joke that is Amaral.
CCTV identifies vehicles not who is them,considering there's been no reports of vehicles and their number plates on the night in question,the relevance is?
Isn't it normal practice for police investigating officers to check out vehicle movements using CCTV when a crime has been committed. In particular when a child is missing.
Rebelo certainly thought so. Just as he thought it a jolly good idea to check out unidentified DNA samples with any outside agencies he was able to access.
Amaral certainly didn't appear to be 'big' on following evidence to solve a case and what indications he did follow up on were beyond his comprehension as soon became patently obvious to anyone with the slightest understanding of forensics.
What CCTV? *%87was there not a report that amaral failed to check a CCTV camera ......and that by the time he did it had been wiped clear
was there not a report that amaral failed to check a CCTV camera ......and that by the time he did it had been wiped clear
Do you think that Rebelo checked out CCTV months after Amaral said the CCTV had been overwritten?
Or that the Estrela CCTV showed vehicle movements?
*&^^&
What CCTV?
What CCTV? *%87
You asked what CCTV...I've answered...the one amaral was photographed in front of...it's on this forumhttp://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3519.msg177127#msg177127
You appear to have studiously ignored the link I have provided. It reads as follows ...
Policia Judiciaria
Fax
Date: 20-11-2007
To: Euroscut Algarve
From: Paulo Rebelo, Portimao DIC
Ref: 201.07.0GALGS
Subject: Request for Information
Within the context of the investigation mentioned above into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann and following the telephone contact made by officers of this police force on the 4th May 2007 with the Traffic Controller of Euroscut Algarve, Rui Afonso, I request your collaboration as quickly as possible, with relation to the security cameras existing on the A22 VIA DO INFANTE motorway, if there are video recordings of these, especially concerning the time period between 21.00 on 3rd May 2007 and 07.00 of the following day, with respect to the stretch of the A22 between Lagos and the border with Spain of V.R.S ANTONIO and in the affirmative case, their preservation and delivery in digital format to this Police department is requested.
With compliments,
The Superior Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation
Paulo Rebelo
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAULO_REBELO.htm_______________________________________________________________________
Bump
Please bear in mind that Amaral was sacked from the investigation which precipitately made Kate and Gerry McCann arguidos without a shred of corroborating evidence to back that decision up.
Paulo Rebelo who took over the case immediately had to take over Madeleine's case from scratch. Amazingly having to take on checking elementary diligences the results of which should already have been known. For example the necessity of obtaining a court order to check the CCTV images of vehicles entering and leaving Luz at the relevant time.
As well as asking for checks to be made on an unidentified DNA sample from 3rd May which quite obviously hadn't already been previously investigated. https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAULO_REBELO.htm
That Paulo Rebelo's investigation had to attempt to play catch up in this way so long after the event when the precious golden hours of the disappearance of a child had been squandered by Amaral's investigation highlights either incompetence or corruption. Take your pick.
Rebelo's investigation was competent and thorough ... in my opinion tied up all the loose ends he inherited and I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that it was to the work of this respected officer to which Rowley referred, not the very bad joke that is Amaral.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11288.msg578120#msg578120
I haven't 'studiously ignored' anything.
The A22 does not enter or exit Luz.
AFAIK, there was no need for CCTV on the A22 in 2007. That came when the A22 changed to being a toll road.
Did Mr Rebelo gain anything from this diligence?
Do you imagine that ignoring the necessity to gather evidence is conducive to solving crime.
I haven't 'studiously ignored' anything.
The A22 does not enter or exit Luz.
AFAIK, there was no need for CCTV on the A22 in 2007. That came when the A22 changed to being a toll road.
Did Mr Rebelo gain anything from this diligence?
No, I agree it does not. However, Brietta never said the A22 entered Pdl .
But, the A22 is like a motorway and it is the fast route, avoiding towns, in an easterly direction towards the Spanish border anf international flights from Faro. PdL is only about 6-7 miles from the A22, by the modern and fairly fast N125 and it is the obvious getaway route by motor vehicle from the Mccann flat for anyone driving away after abducting Madeleine. One would expect CCTV cameras on thi sroute.
However it is my belief that for the initial part of her journey, Madeleine was taken by boat, probably up to Sines port, where she was transferred to a white van, cos at that distance north from Pdl she would be past any likely police checks one would think.
The Carlos Moreira sighting at a roadside snack bar is very interesting IMO. That portable snack bar is on the old main road and likely route from Sines up to Porto, where I think her journey finished for a while.
When we drove away from that snack bar a I took a quick snap, which turned out to be a short video of it, and the woman there went demented, shouting at me in a foreign language. It was not Portuguese and not a Romance nor German type language. I wonder if it was Jewish or Russian. A language expert listened to it and couldn't trace its origin.
Sorry, I have gone off topic.
What CCTV cameras?The ones the head cop who took over the case rues were not checked earlier. Is Rebelo an idiot in your view?
What CCTV cameras?
The ones the head cop who took over the case rues were not checked earlier. Is Rebelo an idiot in your view?
I have no idea whether Rebelo is an idiot or not. End of discussion. &^&*%oh how sad, and I was so looking forward to another of our pleasant little exchanges.
Snip
But what relevance does this have to the disappearance 170 days ago of four-year-old Madeleine McCann in Praia da Luz, about 280km from Lisbon?
And what does it mean for Kate and Gerry McCann, who have not only had to cope with losing their child, but have also been subjects of a vicious campaign in the Portuguese press to smear them?
It is crucial for two reasons; first because it proves what international crime agencies have long suspected: that Portugal has become a magnet for predatory paedophiles from around the world, using the country's lax laws and preying on the high numbers of poor, abandoned children.
And second, because Paulo Rebelo, an urbane, methodical detective who led the Casa Pia paedophile inquiry, was last night finishing his first week as the new chief of the investigation into the disappearance of the British child.
Rebelo has replaced Goncalo Amaral, the "oafish" local police chief out of his depth in a case that has captured unprecedented world attention, with millions fascinated by the story of the girl snatched from her bed on holiday while her parents ate with friends 200 yards away.________________________________________________________
In an effort to make up for lost time following Amaral's dismissal, Rebelo has recruited his own men from Lisbon. To the fury of the original officers, he has lost little time in sidelining them, bringing in two child sex experts from the Casa Pia case as well as homicide specialists and computer analysts - known as "the cleaners" due to their reputation for leaving no stone unturned.
According to senior police sources, he also launched a furious private attack on the 100 officers involved in the original inquiry, which he has now cut back to 40.
At a meeting, he accused some officers of having "closed minds" about who was guilty, saying that "pre-conceptions should be challenged".________________________________________________________
In addition, he oversaw Operation Predator - raids on more than 70 suspected paedophiles, whose computers were searched last week for images of Madeleine or other evidence of criminal sexual acts. Although by last night Rebelo had failed to make a breakthrough, sources say it is a clear sign, along with reports that Russian child traffickers may be involved, of a strand of his current thinking.
In a Lisbon café, an associate of Rebelo told the Mail: "The Casa Pia case had a deep affect on Paulo. You come across things that are appalling and cruel. But you get a feeling that there are some seriously bad people in the world, and some of them are here. He does not rule anything out."
So, after enduring months of soul-destroying leaks from the Portuguese police - from claims that they drugged Madeleine and then disposed of her body, to allegations that Gerry was not even her real father - the McCanns are no longer the sole focus of the Portuguese police investigation.
As well as growing fears that Madeleine was abducted by a paedophile ring, they can have little hope of justice when leading Portuguese figures are allegedly involved in covering-up their own child sex scandal.
Both cases - the two highest profile criminal investigations in the country since the end of the Portuguese military dictatorship in 1974 - have been riven by allegations of compromised police officers, high-level interference and vicious, virulent attacks on key witnesses.________________________________________________________
Of course, the Casa Pia case may have no direct link to the disappearance of Madeleine, but the culture in which such a serious child abuse network was allowed to operate is the same culture that pervades the whole of Portugal. Was it this attitude that led to the bungled initial investigation in the McCann case?
Perhaps the appointment of the man who exposed the Casa Pia scandal will give the parents of Maddie hope that a proper investigation will now discover the truth.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-488654/Why-Portugal-haven-paedophiles--disturbing-backcloth-Madeleine-case.html
Your needle appears to be stuck in a grove.
I have already informed you of the request made by Paolo Rebelo for CCTV images and it appears to be perfectly clear and hasn't changed in the interim ... it is as follows ...
Snip
I request your collaboration as quickly as possible, with relation to the security cameras existing on the A22 VIA DO INFANTE motorway, if there are video recordings of these, especially concerning the time period between 21.00 on 3rd May 2007 and 07.00 of the following day, with respect to the stretch of the A22 between Lagos and the border with Spain of V.R.S ANTONIO and in the affirmative case, their preservation and delivery in digital format to this Police department is requested.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAULO_REBELO.htm
You have not proved that any CCTV cameras existed on the A22 in 2007, so I'll repeat the point - there was no need for them in 2007.
Furthermore, since you have reduced the exchange to sniping, I'll repeat your erroneous claim that kicked this off, namely that there was CCTV into/out of Luz in 2007. Using one of your favourite words, that idea is risible.
Rebelo used the word 'if'. To KISS, he didn't know, did he?
What evidence the evidence that doesn't add up - some a lot more in the know than you seem to have a different opinion.
McCanns evidence 'doesn't add up'
A team of British crime specialists who have scrutinised the Madeleine McCann case claim there are inconsistencies in her parents' version of events.
Prof Barclay, 62, added: "There has been a tendency to criticise the Portuguese police but on the whole they did a pretty good job.
"However, they made two big mistakes. Firstly, they did not seal of the crime scene anywhere nearly quick enough. Secondly, in my opinion they were not aggressive enough with the McCanns in the first stage of the investigation.
"It is actually for the parents' benefit in cases like this that the police tackle them robustly and demand a comprehensive account of their movements during the relevant timeframe."
Why would they be told to.
Covering up what?
Protecting whom?
There are those who suggest that the PJ were completely incompetent and that the Metropolitan Police are vastly superior, although there's no evidence to support either opinion.
I find it strange that those same people suggest that the PJ were competent when it came to investigating the McCanns; again without any evidence of that.
There is, of course, evidence that both police forces have made mistakes and that it takes a lot of courage for individual officers to speak out against the Met.
and there are some who cannot stick to the thread about NSY and its failings, but have to bring in the PJ.
It is quite clear from the link John provided that there is a serious problem with whistle blowing and corruption within the met. If, as some supporters claim, as did the parents that paedophiles are involved then we look at two issues facing the PJ at the time of MBM's disappearance.
1. Kate saying "they've taken her"
2 their friendship with a known paedophile (Who cheered them up during a sad time) CF.
It may well have been the PJ looked at this closer, along with the account they couldn't accept as being the truth of the acclaimed abduction. Which gave them the idea that the parents were in some way involved.
The most interesting involvement in this whole case was the government and 'celebrity' involvement of one missing child. How many were and have continued to be on the missing persons list in the UK which doesn't have millions chucked at it? and what could the reason be for this I wonder...
Name one, please.
This seems like selective investigation to me - it's not what you have done its who you are OMO
COP SECRET Police officers secretly cleared over refusal to launch probe into sex-trafficking claims involving Prince Andrew
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11175409/prince-andrew-police-cleared-refusing-sex-probe/
POLICE chiefs have secretly cleared officers of wrongdoing over their refusal to launch a full probe into sex-trafficking claims involving Prince Andrew.
American Virginia Roberts says she was taken to London by Jeffrey Epstein and forced to sleep with the royal aged 17 — but the Met Police TWICE declined to properly investigate.
It's in the Sun so it's suspect...the girl was 17...some might not like it but it's not against the law to have consensual sex....which it seems it was...with a 17 yr old
So why should there be a police investigation
Well you might think it ok - each to there own imo %56&
I dont - she was forced - the police should have investigated because it is a crime in my book.
she was taken to London by Jeffrey Epstein and forced to sleep with the royal aged 17 — but the Met Police TWICE declined to properly investigate.
Who said she was forced.....I've never heard her say she was forced...
You never heard her say she was forced - have you spoken to her D
Well you might think it ok - each to there own imo %56&
I dont - she was forced - the police should have investigated because it is a crime in my book.
she was taken to London by Jeffrey Epstein and forced to sleep with the royal aged 17 — but the Met Police TWICE declined to properly investigate.
You are the one who is claiming she was forced.....did she object to prince Andrew ..she's been in TV enough. It's not against the law to have sex with a 17 yr old
You are the one who is claiming she was forced.....did she object to prince Andrew ..she's been in TV enough. It's not against the law to have sex with a 17 yr old
Has she made a complaint to the police?
Who said she was forced.....I've never heard her say she was forced...
I believe the allegation is that she was trafficked. The definition of trafficked is the trade of humans for the purpose of forced labour, sexual slavery, or commercial sexual exploitation for the trafficker or others.
Again Ive never heard her used the word forced. From her she was asked to have sex with andrew and she obliged.
What crime is andrew supposed to be guilty of..has there been a complaint to the UK police...
You simly cannot beleive what is printed in the Sun...most understand that.
Its not just the Sun.
The Met has said that its investigators reviewed all ‘available evidence’ in relation to disputed claims that a 17-year-old was ‘forced to have sex with Prince Andrew’. Photograph: Kirsty O’Connor/PA
The Victims’ Commissioner is demanding that the Metropolitan Police explain its decision not to pursue a full investigation into claims a teenager was trafficked to the UK to have sex with Prince Andrew.
The Observer understands that Dame Vera Baird QC, a former solicitor general and chair of the Board of the Association of Police and Crime Commissioners, has taken a close interest in the allegations, first examined by Scotland Yard in 2015.
Baird, who has focused on protecting victims of sexual and domestic abuse throughout her career, is currently observing election purdah and cannot speak to the media.
However, prior to the election she made her views known to a victims’ rights campaigner, telling him that she would be requesting a meeting with the Met once purdah was over.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/nov/23/metropolitan-police-faces-new-questions-trafficked-teen-prince-andrew-panorama
the met reviewed all the evidence and decided not to pursue a full investigation....whats wrong with that..
yet in portugal a tourist was violently raped by a portuguese who having been found guilty was given a suspended sentence
Yes like I said in the first place.
This seems like selective investigation to me - it's not what you have done its who you are IMO
The whole thread is a pathetic attempt to tar the met because they support the mccanns.
the initial claim of the thread title has been shown to be bogus so now you try to drag up something else....ive neevr seen anywhere where this lady said she objected to andrew...its the same the world over...powerful men .....impresssionable young women
She wasn't forced to do anything. And she was well paid for what she did.Sounds like a decent slogan for a grooming gang.
She wasn't forced to do anything. And she was well paid for what she did.
Not at all - IMO it's very disturbing you brought the mccs up not me.
Virginia Roberts Giuffre has criticised Scotland Yard for failing to investigate her allegations that she was trafficked to the UK to sleep with the Duke of York.
The 35-year-old, who claims she was coerced into sleeping with the Duke three times when she was 17, alleged that the UK inquiry was abandoned because of “corruption” at the highest level.
The Metropolitan Police have come under increasing pressure to explain why they did not carry out a full investigation into her claims.
After assessing the complaint, made in 2015, police decided the matter did not warrant a full investigation.
However, Ms Roberts Giuffre wrote on Twitter: “At first the Scotland Yard told me they were going to forensically examine GM’s house in London- next thing I hear, just like the FBI, they were not allowed to pursue the investigation.
Not at all - IMO it's very disturbing you brought the mccs up not me.
Virginia Roberts Giuffre has criticised Scotland Yard for failing to investigate her allegations that she was trafficked to the UK to sleep with the Duke of York.
The 35-year-old, who claims she was coerced into sleeping with the Duke three times when she was 17, alleged that the UK inquiry was abandoned because of “corruption” at the highest level.
The Metropolitan Police have come under increasing pressure to explain why they did not carry out a full investigation into her claims.
After assessing the complaint, made in 2015, police decided the matter did not warrant a full investigation.
However, Ms Roberts Giuffre wrote on Twitter: “At first the Scotland Yard told me they were going to forensically examine GM’s house in London- next thing I hear, just like the FBI, they were not allowed to pursue the investigation.
"After assessing the complaint, made in 2015, police decided the matter did not warrant a full investigation.
"
"just like the FBI, they were not allowed to pursue the investigation."
And then,later he was investigated and found guilty!
https://torontosun.com/news/world/epstein-bombshell-netflix-show-exposing-sex-trafficking-ring
I don't know if PA is guilty or not but his interview was a car crash as far as PR is concerned. Did he or did he not know the girls were part of a sex traffic ring. Was he presented with a randy 17 year old who wanted to have sex with a prince?
The fact that he says he never knew her or met her and the picture was probably photo shopped is seriously suspicious.
If all he did was have sex with a 17 year old then nothing shocking about that IF it was consensual.
She was groomed from the age of 14/15.
Forensically examine the house...what would they expect to find....sounds daft...perhaps you can explain
Perhaps you can - if it was the PJ you would be out hell for leather D
forensically examine the house 20 years later....what a daft idea...perhaps its just poor innaccurate reporting
Well, we don't know what they should have been looking for.
wehat were her parents doing all this time. As I understand in teh US she would be classed as a minor at 17......wheras in the Uk she is not.....what ahs all this got to do with the mccanns
for someone being forced to have sex....being sexually trafficked....she looks very happy in that picture. There seems to be no evidence to support her claims.
Why not email and ask her? as if I would know. Joh started the thread you can ask him, however I suspect it is two fold.
The McCanns supporters are constantly knocking the PJ and Sr Amaral for doing nothing- here we have the MET doing just that to protect, it is claimed, a large corrupted paedo gang of the elite class.
Of which the McCanns soon became over familiar with that self same class, while not looking for their missing daughter.
I think the evidence is very obvious to everyone else but you- Epstein was investigated-charged found guilty convicted and imprisoned for sex slave crimes- he killed himself!
But I suppose that isn't real evidence according to you.
he was found guilty of prostitution of minors....this woman was not a minor. what crime did andrew commit
He was found guilty of grooming sex slaves of minors! She was 15 when she was recruited/persuaded/coerced/groomed.
I don't know what crime he committed I have already said that.
but here it is again...all he did was have sex with a 17 year old then nothing shocking about that IF it was consensual.
- The fact that he says he never knew her or met her and the picture was probably photo shopped is seriously suspicious.
If
all it seems is he had consensual sex with a seventeen yr old...so no crime...no investigation.
yet she claims she was abused by him.........If it had been in the US it would have been abuse (less than 18)...but in the UK its not
OK you are missing the point completely. The investigation was about grooming minors and selling them for sex and or blackmail or special favors. he should have been investigated about that!
all it seems is he had consensual sex with a seventeen yr old...so no crime...no investigation.
yet she claims she was abused by him.........If it had been in the US it would have been abuse (less than 18)...but in the UK its not
So again it is only your opinion - how do you know she wasn't abused. or consented
Why do you choose to defend Andy - god he is not even doing that himself now @)(++(*
who should...prince andrew...he wasnt doing any of those things.....was epstein doing that in the Uk...you dont know
"was epstein doing that in the Uk...you dont know"
Am I claiming to know?. No! You have got lost in the debate somewhere.
The claim is PA should have been investigated as part of the USA investigation- we don't know what they know hence the thread- are these things being covered up by the MET.
"large corrupt elite class paedo gang.........the Met investigated that as part of the Carl Beech enquiry...it was haox"
One investigation 1 result.
There is some truths still to be outed regarding large paedo rings within the elites in many societies. Failing to accept that, creates more victims and ensures the safety of perpetrators to continue with these crimes.
Our silence is their mandate!
large corrupt elite class paedo gang.........the Met investigated that as part of the Carl Beech enquiry...it was haoxErgo large, corrupt (I mean, by definition, right?) elite class paedo gangs don't exist?
the only elite paedo ring i know of is Casa pia...portugal...courtesy of the blindness of the PJ
Ergo large, corrupt (I mean, by definition, right?) elite class paedo gangs don't exist?
Off-topic,
Although it shows your obsessed with PJ - yet couldn't care less about the failings Met. IMO
youve reaised two cases...how did the met fail re Wedger. Wedger sounds a complete fantasist re his claims of satanic abuse...and he hasnt named anyone or provded any evidence..
prince andrew....again no evidence of any abuse ...in fact the smiling photo would indicate she wasnt being abused
OH FGS.
The Metropolitan Police have come under increasing pressure to explain why they did not carry out a full investigation into her claims.
Has she made a complaint to the police. Cite, please.
1] The Metropolitan Police have come under increasing pressure to explain why they did not carry out a full investigation into her claims.
2] Earlier this week Miss Roberts herself criticised Scotland Yard for failing to investigate her allegations.
The 35-year-old said that the UK inquiry was abandoned because of 'corruption' at the highest level.
What do you think B Virginia was complaining about - the British weather.
If Roberts says it was abandoned due to corruption does that make it true...it seems it was not further to nvestigated because she's sent a photo of herself happily smiling with the man she claims abused her...to her mom
Well clearly you are on andy's side IMOShe's got her arm around the man she claims abused her...there's a massive diffrence..
Have you changed your stance as well about the heartbreak behind those smiles as meaning you're happy'
Like when we have commented on the smiling faces of the mccs - you have called it anything but happy.
So the broad smiles from the mccs days after Maddie went missing could mean - I'm ok with all this we havent a problem IMO
Make your mind up D
She's got her arm around the man she claims abused her...there's a massive diffrence..
And I don't particularly like Prince Andrew
Well seems he still your Prince.
Good job SY didn't refuse to get involved with the happy beaming smiles of the mccs is all I can say - on your logic.
I doubt you understand my logic based on your posts
If Roberts says it was abandoned due to corruption does that make it true...it seems it was not further to nvestigated because she's sent a photo of herself happily smiling with the man she claims abused her...to her mom
Oh I do D - based on yours
Could be D you don't understand the evidence
If she has any sort of evidence she could take out a civil claim for damages...it's quite easy.Well it would appear that she's tried to exhaust criminal proceedings.
Why isn't she doing that
If she has any sort of evidence she could take out a civil claim for damages...it's quite easy.
Why isn't she doing that
Well it would appear that she's tried to exhaust criminal proceedings.
It could be the next step.
Anyway, it simply can;t be true, because apparently Andrew 'doesn't even sweat that much'.
How do you know she isn't.
She hasn't exhausted criminal proceedings...she could take out a private criminal prosecution....as I may be forced to doCover up. Big dentistry don't want this type of scandal.
I've provided the police with overwhelming evidence of theft by an employee...but the police said not enough evidence...is there a cover up or are the police just overwhelmed with crime and will only take on cases where there is a realistic chance of prosecution...it looks like one the PA case there isn't evidence big any crime against Andrew
Because simply I think we would have heard...why isn't she telling us to put pressure on andrew
How do you know she hasn't the thing is here look who he is
Like I said in the first place it seems the Met are selective on how they investigate things.
Depending on who you are IMO
So why would the Met be selective re the McCanns...what makes them special
Well something does imo
That's where another of your arguments falls apart...The McCanns are being protected but you haven't got a clue why..
More like they are not being protected
So we don't know ..just speculation
More likely they are - its a fact they have preferential treatment over others.
My argument fell apart @)(++(* I'm not arguing I'm posting an opinion like you D
Don't worry about it - I don't.
So we don't know ..just speculation
If you think something is true then you are speculating...that's fact..not opinion
Not speculation even - they either have or they haven't I think they have.
Oh, Dear two offers of help the Met have received and turned down both it seems do they want to find Maddie
.
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/madeleinemccannhunt-offered-team-police-super-21683792
Madeleine McCann hunt offered team of police 'super recognisers' to find missing girl
EXCLUSIVE: Ex-chief inspector Mick Neville, who founded the Met Police’s Central Forensic Image Team in 2012, believes Madeleine McCann could be tracked down online
Dr Mark Perlin claims his Pittsburgh lab Cybernetics – which has identified victims of the 9/11 terror attack – can unlock samples UK authorities initially struggled to analyse.
However, his offer was also ignored.
Oh, Dear two offers of help the Met have received and turned down both it seems do they want to find MaddieI wonder how much they charge to have their operatives trawl through Facebook looking at pictures of teenage girls...?
.
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/madeleinemccannhunt-offered-team-police-super-21683792
Madeleine McCann hunt offered team of police 'super recognisers' to find missing girl
EXCLUSIVE: Ex-chief inspector Mick Neville, who founded the Met Police’s Central Forensic Image Team in 2012, believes Madeleine McCann could be tracked down online
Dr Mark Perlin claims his Pittsburgh lab Cybernetics – which has identified victims of the 9/11 terror attack – can unlock samples UK authorities initially struggled to analyse.
However, his offer was also ignored.
Did the Portuguese take up his offer...if not why not. As this is a Portuguese investigation are the PJ protecting them as well
Oh, Dear two offers of help the Met have received and turned down both it seems do they want to find Maddie
.
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/madeleinemccannhunt-offered-team-police-super-21683792
Madeleine McCann hunt offered team of police 'super recognisers' to find missing girl
EXCLUSIVE: Ex-chief inspector Mick Neville, who founded the Met Police’s Central Forensic Image Team in 2012, believes Madeleine McCann could be tracked down online
Dr Mark Perlin claims his Pittsburgh lab Cybernetics – which has identified victims of the 9/11 terror attack – can unlock samples UK authorities initially struggled to analyse.
However, his offer was also ignored.
This thread is not about PJ it's about the MET
Why do you keep going off-topic - or is it just to derail it?
Try putting the blame where it lies - instead of defending to suit ur agenda D
I wonder how much they charge to have their operatives trawl through Facebook looking at pictures of teenage girls...?
you really need to start sticking to the truth.....it gives you little credibility imo.
How do you know that the offer from perlin was ignored. How do you know it wasnt carefully considered and deemed not to be of any use.
How do you know SY had not already had the analysis done by teh New Zealand lab taht carries out similar testing.
Yet you in your closed mind approach decide it was ignored........and as I have asked you....did the PJ ignore it too...are they also on this major cover up
I kneed to start sticking to the truth - are you saying then they have had an analysis done New Zealand lab
Then have you proof of that - or are you just making it up D
The thread is not about the PJ
read the title of the thraed...it doesnt mention teh mccanns.
Im not making anything up im simply posing questions. Im not stating anything as fact...but you are. You stated that SY ignored perlins offer......you made that up...you dont know
you said perlins offer was ignoredr4
..you need to make your posts clearer. There is no evidence his offer was ignored. Please dont expect anyone here to accept the Star as a reliable source of information
It was Pittsburgh as well not NZ
Dr Mark Perlin claims his Pittsburgh lab Cybernetics – which has identified victims of the 9/11 terror attack – can unlock samples UK authorities initially struggled to analyse.
However, his offer was also ignored.
I didn't say it at all - I posted what had been reported read it yourself
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/madeleinemccannhunt-offered-team-police-super-21683792
..you need to make your posts clearer. There is no evidence his offer was ignored. Please dont expect anyone here to accept the Star as a reliable source of information
as i recall there is a company in NZ that carry out the same analysis as Perlin
What - its sometimes like reading cryptic understanding yours.
The NZ one has probably not offered their help - or do you know different,
We already know about Perlin do we not - so...we know that wasn't made up or the rest of the article.
What we don't know is if Perlin could have been of any help..it seems the Portuguese decided it wasn't...as did SY.
There is no evidence the offer was ignored by either.
It also seems the DNA file had already been removed neonperhaps already retested
Unless this method of finding missing people has a track record of success I would say it’s likely to be an expensive waste of money. There are thousands of missing people in this country, I presume they are finding individuals every day using their talents?
Why should that bother you if they found her?
Where have they got with the £12 million-plus so far - nowhere
Unless this method of finding missing people has a track record of success I would say it’s likely to be an expensive waste of money. There are thousands of missing people in this country, I presume they are finding individuals every day using their talents?
So this company has found many missing people?
Yes and there is a lot - who they are not even looking for
So this company has found many missing people?
Well we don't know do we - but I know there is a lot of missing people who no one is looking forWell there you go then. If they have no know. track record of success why should sny police force pay them to do this?
Well there you go then. If they have no know. track record of success why should sny police force pay them to do this?
no, because they never give Perlin the chance to help
Sorry, your post is barely intelligible.
Why not you would think it was coming out there pockets - not the taxpayer
who is expecting them to at least do everything possible with the amount of money they have already spent
Sorry, your post is barely intelligible.
Thank Kizzy, and you x
Well, whatever this virus is really taking hold it seems London heading for a shutdown by Friday
Won't be proving an fending on here for a while.
Off-topic VS but sincerely keep well and safe
When in doubt revert to libelling a police officer.
Come on, Gunit, you can do better than that.
...so this Met Police whistleblower mechanism for reporting corruption and cover ups - I bet the're a busy department, eh?
You'd think the McCann cover up would have been reported then... Perhaps there's a cover up of the report of the cover upI did say they were probably busy, so could be.
Well, everybody seems to be getting on okay at the moment. Well done y'llIt's amazing how a member being vaporised galvanises cordiality.
I haven't had a good look yet but this person seems to be impressed by R D Hall....believes the McCanns are guilty..and doesn't seem to understand the evidence in the case. I've no doubt there are elements of corruption in the Met as there are with any police organisation.....But apart from his view that Kate should repent to Jesus before being possessed by Satan...I don't see the relevance to the case
I believe there is a possibility that R D Hall is a useful stooge for the very establishment that the OP refers to. He has extensive knowledge of some key elements then delibataely, imo, exposes himself as a conspiracy crank. Thus, I would suggest, instilling in people the idea that those who question the narrative are also cranks,
I am mystified why you think there is any conspiracy involved when Hall "exposes himself as a conspiracy crank" I don't think he ever made any secret of the fact from day one. And as for that voice ...
It’s his well funded and extensive research but some glaring inaccuracies on key subjects. I also wonder why Mitchell has never sued him.
He can’t help his voice.
Wrong. R Hall is an online conspiracy crank. Amaral is the ex-cop on the case. Obviously to the uninformed it would seem Amaral was the authority to be taken seriously , whereas R Hall is just some online loony, to be taken with a dessert spoon of salt.
I have said many times - why did the mccs let R H get away with the many many CDs he made on this case.
Far more damaging IMO than GA - TOTL book.
Wrong. R Hall is an online conspiracy crank. Amaral is the ex-cop on the case. Obviously to the uninformed it would seem Amaral was the authority to be taken seriously , whereas R Hall is just some online loony, to be taken with a dessert spoon of salt.
In my opinion RH is a useful stooge.
I have said many times - why did the mccs let R H get away with the many many CDs he made on this case.
Far more damaging IMO than GA - TOTL book.
In the real world ... who has ever heard of the existence of this person.The McCann case does seem to be in a parallel universe at times.
In my opinion RH is a useful stooge.Useful to whom? The lizard elite?
In the real world ... who has ever heard of the existence of this person.
Useful to whom? The lizard elite?
Come on B everyone interested who use the net - he has thousands and thousands of downloads and viewings.
There's no such thing!Explain how.
Useful to the CM PR machine previously of Cambridge Analytica fame, imo.
Explain how.
I did in an earlier post in this thread.OK, but do you not question the judgement of someone who is so clearly wrong about so many things? I find it hard to understand how anyone who views him and his beliefs as a bit nuts can also think he’s got it bang on re: the McCanns.
OK, but do you not question the judgement of someone who is so clearly wrong about so many things? I find it hard to understand how anyone who views him and his beliefs as a bit nuts can also think he’s got it bang on re: the McCanns.He hasn't. I believe he is a useful stooge for the PR machine. How could someone so well funded and well researched on the subject make such glaring errors. Look how he portrays Smithman in his sightings video. We all know how Smith described the way the man was carrying the child... but look how RH reinvents it. He takes key elements in the case then makes errors that must be deliberate to attempt to taint all as cranks people raising key questions. Look at his Embedded Confessions video. It highlights some very good points then he ends the convincing analyses of language by a trained language analyst with comments about fake moon landings.... thrown in right out of the blue. Again it discredits as cranks people who raise important questions on the language used by K and G.,... Furthermore why hasn't CM sued him?
He hasn't. I believe he is a useful stooge for the PR machine. How could someone so well funded and well researched on the subject make such glaring errors. Look how he portrays Smithman in his sightings video. We all know how Smith described the way the man was carrying the child... but look how RH reinvents it. He takes key elements in the case then makes errors that must be deliberate to attempt to taint all as cranks people raising key questions. Look at his Embedded Confessions video. It highlights some very good points then he ends the convincing analyses of language by a trained language analyst with comments about fake moon landings.... thrown in right out of the blue. Again it discredits as cranks people who raise important questions on the language used by K and G.,... Furthermore why hasn't CM sued him?Right, so this is the conspiracy to end all conspiracies. R Hall is secretly working for the McCanns. I get you.
Right, so this is the conspiracy to end all conspiracies. R Hall is secretly working for the McCanns. I get you.
It’s hardly the conspiracy to end all conspiracies. It’s just he’s a useful stooge imo. One of his videos has 3/4 million views on YouTube. Why isn’t he being threatened with legal action?
How long do you think it would take to take legal action against misguided person who who takes it upon themselves to post ill informed nonsense on the internet.
Anyway, what has this got to do with the thread topic?
They did with Bennett.
Bennett was creeping around the undergrowth near The McCann's house and trying to take out a Private Prosecution. And walking the streets spouting Libel.
RH is spouting libel.
It’s hardly the conspiracy to end all conspiracies. It’s just he’s a useful stooge imo. One of his videos has 3/4 million views on YouTube. Why isn’t he being threatened with legal action?
The McCann's have been told not to talk about the case. Maybe when the case is done and dusted they will sue all those who to damage the investigation.
Not with the Portuguese in charge - that will not happen!
Not with the Portuguese in charge - that will not happen!
You think the Portuguese will stop CR suing all these people such as Hall?
The Portuguese have disgraced themselves.
They seem more competent than OG, imo. What missing child case would start by ruling out close family involvement!!!!?One where family involvement had already been rigorously investigated (to the exclusion or almost anything else) and nothing of any major significance found to support the theory.
One where family involvement had already been rigorously investigated (to the exclusion or almost anything else) and nothing of any major significance found to support the theory.
Apart from a cadaver dog alert, a blood dog alert and DNA samples being tested, someone saying they believe they saw GM carrying MM away from the apartment. Reportedly there’s a quote from a British officer saying we’d have hauled them in for less!!Like I said, all rigorously investigated and nothing of significance to support the theory.
Apart from a cadaver dog alert, a blood dog alert and DNA samples being tested, someone saying they believe they saw GM carrying MM away from the apartment. Reportedly there’s a quote from a British officer saying we’d have hauled them in for less!!
Alerts no evidential value...smith didnt see the mans face and wasnt sure it was Gerry...the report of the british officer came from amaral I beleive...a convicted liar....so ...nothing
Cite for Smith didn't see the mans face?
Smith has never said such a thing, as far as I'm aware.
Perhaps you know different.
so do you think he saw his face...is that your belief
It doesn't matter what I believe.
It matters that you support the claim you made with a cite.
Bennett was creeping around the undergrowth near The McCann's house and trying to take out a Private Prosecution. And walking the streets spouting Libel.
Then his reach wasn’t as wide as RH then.
TBH I don’t like either of them but I think it’s beyond doubt that Hall’s audience is far larger than Bennett’s.
I don't understand why Hall should matter. He very nearly bored me to death. Unfortunately, I had to watch most of his rubbish before I could know what I was talking about.
I never did understand what Hall was talking about.
States that it is not possible for him to recognise the individual in person or by photograph.
His hair was short, in a basic male cut, brown in colour. He cannot state if it was dark or lighter in tone. He did not wear glasses and had no beard or moustache. He did not notice any other relevant details partly due to the fact that the lighting was not very good.
I would be 60-80% sure that it was Gerard McCann that I met that night carrying a child. I am basing that on his mannerism in the way he carried the child off the plane.
. It was the way Gerard McCann turned his head down which was similar to what the individual did on 3rd May 2007
So he wouldnt recognise him again...he had his head turned down....the light was poor......he says he would be 60 to 80% BASED on his mannerisms not his face. No facial description at all
Why did you watch it at all ? I certainly didn't
God knows. But Moderators do have to have some idea.
So, nowhere there does Smith claim not to have seen his face.So he saw his face but would not be able to recognise it in person or in a photograph. Useful.
Thanks for clarifying 8((()*/
So, nowhere there does Smith claim not to have seen his face.
Thanks for clarifying 8((()*/
no problem...so theres no evidence he saw his face...and he ID him not by his face but by the way he held the child...and...he isnt sure it was Gerry
He knew he had no glasses or a beard, I wonder how he could tell that if he never saw his face?
And, he was more sure than not that it was Gerry.
8(>((
He knew he had no glasses or a beard, I wonder how he could tell that if he never saw his face?It’s amazing he never saw a photo or video of Gerry McCann until September. Had he been hiding in a cave up until that point?
And, he was more sure than not that it was Gerry.
States that it is not possible for him to recognise the individual in person or by photograph.
His hair was short, in a basic male cut, brown in colour. He cannot state if it was dark or lighter in tone. He did not wear glasses and had no beard or moustache. He did not notice any other relevant details partly due to the fact that the lighting was not very good.
I would be 60-80% sure that it was Gerard McCann that I met that night carrying a child. I am basing that on his mannerism in the way he carried the child off the plane.
. It was the way Gerard McCann turned his head down which was similar to what the individual did on 3rd May 2007
So he wouldnt recognise him again...he had his head turned down....the light was poor......he says he would be 60 to 80% BASED on his mannerisms not his face. No facial description at all
He did not wear glasses and had no beard or moustache.
He saw his face.
you could get taht from the side.....Just explain why he THOUGHT it was Gerry he MIGHT have seen...was it his face
I don't understand why Hall should matter. He very nearly bored me to death. Unfortunately, I had to watch most of his rubbish before I could know what I was talking about.
I never did understand what Hall was talking about.
you could get taht from the side.....Just explain why he THOUGHT it was Gerry he MIGHT have seen...was it his face
you could get taht from the side.....Just explain why he THOUGHT it was Gerry he MIGHT have seen...was it his face
Here's how it was reported by the Irish Police in a report to the PJ:You’re quoting a police report a third person report and comparing it with the Tapas 7 first hand detailed Rogs which were written down with every pause and aside recorded, hardly a fair comparison to be able to judge the conviction with which the account was given.
" He states he was watching the 10 pm news on BBC and saw the McCANNS getting off the plane and coming down the steps. He states it was like watching an action replay of the night he saw the male carrying the child back in Portugal. He states the way Gerry was carrying his twin triggered something in his head. It was exactly the same way and look of the other male seen the night Maddy went missing. He also watched ITV news and SKY news and inferred it looked like the same person both times carrying the children. Is asking a member of the OP Task Force to ring him back. He was with a group of 9 family and friends the night he saw the male in Portugal. He sounded quite shaken and worried whilst speaking to me. "
I've always found this significant anf far more convincing than any of the T7 statements (granted bone explanation for their stuttering inconsistencies may be an attempt to downplay the fact that they left children alone whilst they went out wining and dining. In terms of Martin Smith's lightbulb moment it's exactly how the human brain works in terms of suddenly realising who someone was (in your own mind). The Irish Police also add, "I do not believe that Martin Smith is courting the press and my view his is a genuine person. He is known locally and is a very decent person."
The other point that always baffled me was why the Smith family sighting was never featured in any of CM's PR pretendy (imo) police like press conferences.
Here's how it was reported by the Irish Police in a report to the PJ:Snip
" He states he was watching the 10 pm news on BBC and saw the McCANNS getting off the plane and coming down the steps. He states it was like watching an action replay of the night he saw the male carrying the child back in Portugal. He states the way Gerry was carrying his twin triggered something in his head. It was exactly the same way and look of the other male seen the night Maddy went missing. He also watched ITV news and SKY news and inferred it looked like the same person both times carrying the children. Is asking a member of the OP Task Force to ring him back. He was with a group of 9 family and friends the night he saw the male in Portugal. He sounded quite shaken and worried whilst speaking to me. "
I've always found this significant anf far more convincing than any of the T7 statements (granted bone explanation for their stuttering inconsistencies may be an attempt to downplay the fact that they left children alone whilst they went out wining and dining. In terms of Martin Smith's lightbulb moment it's exactly how the human brain works in terms of suddenly realising who someone was (in your own mind). The Irish Police also add, "I do not believe that Martin Smith is courting the press and my view his is a genuine person. He is known locally and is a very decent person."
The other point that always baffled me was why the Smith family sighting was never featured in any of CM's PR pretendy (imo) police like press conferences.
You’re quoting a police report a third person report and comparing it with the Tapas 7 first hand detailed Rogs which were written down with every pause and aside recorded, hardly a fair comparison to be able to judge the conviction with which the account was given.
Here's how it was reported by the Irish Police in a report to the PJ:
" He states he was watching the 10 pm news on BBC and saw the McCANNS getting off the plane and coming down the steps. He states it was like watching an action replay of the night he saw the male carrying the child back in Portugal. He states the way Gerry was carrying his twin triggered something in his head. It was exactly the same way and look of the other male seen the night Maddy went missing. He also watched ITV news and SKY news and inferred it looked like the same person both times carrying the children. Is asking a member of the OP Task Force to ring him back. He was with a group of 9 family and friends the night he saw the male in Portugal. He sounded quite shaken and worried whilst speaking to me. "
I've always found this significant anf far more convincing than any of the T7 statements (granted bone explanation for their stuttering inconsistencies may be an attempt to downplay the fact that they left children alone whilst they went out wining and dining. In terms of Martin Smith's lightbulb moment it's exactly how the human brain works in terms of suddenly realising who someone was (in your own mind). The Irish Police also add, "I do not believe that Martin Smith is courting the press and my view his is a genuine person. He is known locally and is a very decent person."
The other point that always baffled me was why the Smith family sighting was never featured in any of CM's PR pretendy (imo) police like press conferences.
Look at Pathfinder's quote above direct from Martin Smith.OK I have done so, and my opinion re: it’s vagueness hasn’t changed. I assume if he’d ID’ed Bruckner in the statement you’d consider it enough to have the man banged up for the crime then?
Substitute the German sex offender for GM in his statement and tell me you honestly wouldn't find it significant and convincing!!
Look at Pathfinder's quote above direct from Martin Smith.
Substitute the German sex offender for GM in his statement and tell me you honestly wouldn't find it significant and convincing!!
Snip
The events of the past week or so, with the McCanns being very much in the news, have triggered my memory in relation to the incident.
I've agonised for days over whether or not to contact the police about this because it is a terrible thing to accuse somebody of. It had just not crossed my mind that the child?s parents could in some way be involved in her disappearance.
I have watched a good deal of news coverage about the McCanns over the past week or so. Another thing which has played on my mind is the coverage of Mr McCann walking off the aeroplane holding one of his young children. The way he was holding the child over his left shoulder reminded me of the man carrying the child from the white van in Portugal.
Although I could not describe the male I'd seen in Portugal because he had his back to me, it was the particular way Mr. McCann held the child that made me think. He held the child over his left shoulder with his left arm supporting the child?s weight. https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RI_Mc.htm
Notice any similarities concerning people who had saturation coverage in the media for months ... both of which occurred after Kate and Gerry were made formal suspects without a shred of evidence.
The possibility of a staged abduction is significant imoWhy do you think the German police just can’t see what you can so clearly see?
Swab 3A was evidence imo
The Smith sighting was evidence imo
The dog alerts are significant imo
Samples collected where the dogs alerted are evidence imo
None of the above are proof beyond reasonable doubt - but "without a shred of evidence" is wide of the mark.
The possibility of a staged abduction is significant imo
Swab 3A was evidence imo
The Smith sighting was evidence imo
The dog alerts are significant imo
Samples collected where the dogs alerted are evidence imo
None of the above are proof beyond reasonable doubt - but "without a shred of evidence" is wide of the mark.
Why do you think the German police just can’t see what you can so clearly see?
None of what you have posted constitutes proof either individually or collectively.
Sceptic shibboleths do not mean anything more in 2020 than they did in 2007 ... don't you think it might be worthwhile to put them behind you and move on as the rest of the world has done.
Maybe they can or maybe their investigation has been less than thorough.And maybe pigs can fly, or could if they tried hard enough.
Your theory is the McCanns hired him to hide the body isn’t it? Maybe that’s why, because it’s too preposterous for words.
I have no evidence of that whatsoever.But it IS your theory, despite the lack of evidence, no?
But it IS your theory, despite the lack of evidence, no?
No. How can I have a theory with no evidence to support it? It would be a possible scenario - but without evidence that's all it is.Of course you can have a theory without evidence and my theory is that you believe that the German was hired by the McCanns to dispose of the body (ludicrous a scenario as it is).
Of course you can have a theory without evidence and my theory is that you believe that the German was hired by the McCanns to dispose of the body (ludicrous a scenario as it is).
I actually don't have a theory. I find the dog alerts are significant. I find the Smith family testimony is honest and compelling. I believe further DNA analysis is required on swab 3a and samples found in the hire car. I'd also ask not if the parents gave MM calpol (it's not a sedative) but if they ever gave her fenergan. I also believe MM's medical records should be handed to the PJ. I believe there is some circumstantial evidence to warrant full investigation into the German sex offender and his movements in May 2007. I am yet to be convinced that there is any strong evidence of entry or exit via the 5A bedroom window. I have not personally seen any strong evidence to support stranger abduction. I believe the T7 timeline needs to be re-examined and I'm particularly concerned by differing accounts of DP's visit to 5A at around 6pm on the day MM was reported missing and all T7 movements after that on the evening in question (and the following morning). I can't explain what happened to MM and don't have a theory supported by evidence which for me is important.Yeah sure.
What has 'baffled' me about the Smith sighting is why it was never publicised by Amaral.
I would have expected the Portuguese police to hold their own press conference about the event not anyone else.
When do you think anyone outwith the Smith family and the police heard anything ... might it have been only when the files were released ... perhaps you can provide a cite for when the sighting was reported in the public domain.
Kate thought it was important enough to write about it in her book ...
Snip
The police did not appear to feel that Jane’s sighting in Rua Dr Agostinho da Silva and the man and child reported by the Irish holidaymakers in Rua da Escola Primária were related. They seem to have concluded that these were in all likelihood two different men carrying two different children (if, they implied, these two men actually existed at all). The only reason for their scepticism appeared to be an unexplained time lapse between the two sightings.
They didn’t dovetail perfectly. To me the similarities seem far more significant than any discrepancy in timing.
Every time I read these independent statements in the files ... ... ... madeleine Kate McCann
Former Scotland Yard detective Jon Wedger talks to ex BBC and ITV reporter Anna Brees about a child prostitution cover up in central London and how he was bullied by a senior officer, currently a very high ranking official at the Metropolitan Police, when he tried to publicly expose it.
https://www.jonwedgerfoundation.org/