EU membership, should we stay or leave?

[Alfie]

Could it be that most big charities and many big businesses get lucrative handouts from the EU?   £4%4%
Without the EU gravy train they would be stuffed!

Vested interest dear Alf...     Vested interest!

That still doesn't make sense, if the opportunities presented to businesses are really as great as you say they are.  Can you give me some examples of big businesses getting handouts from the EU and an idea of the size of these handouts?   And of what you say is true then surely all these businesses will leave Britain in droves to go and set up in the EU where the handouts are so huge?

[Alfie]

Could it be that most big charities and many big businesses get lucrative handouts from the EU?   £4%4%
Without the EU gravy train they would be stuffed!

Vested interest dear Alf...     Vested interest!

BTW, you now appear to be agreeing with Daniel Finkelstein, having earlier said he was wrong when he said

By leaving the European single market, Britain makes itself a less attractive place for big businesses to invest. This is hard to dispute, and in any case they are overwhelmingly telling us themselves. It will also make it harder for us to trade.

[mercury]

I watched The Paxman c4 debate tonight that was filled with politicans old and new, business leaders, media, and people from the general population

Its a shame these kind of debates did not happen weeks and weeks ago and on an intense ongoing basis for all the issues to be thrashed out, I heard good arguments from both sides, and each side is a kaleidoscope of members, some surprising


No wonder at least a fifth of the population is undecided as there are so many intelligent informed and charismatic persons who are speaking for both sides


it truly is a gamble based on gut instinct because if youre honest no one can predict a single thing here

Oh well, roll on friday night for  results

[Admin]

Jean-Claude Juncker has effectively let the cat out of the bag last night when he demolished any possible hopes of further negotiatons with the EU as previously promised by PM David Cameron.


EU referendum: Juncker in 'out is out' warning to UK



The UK will not be able to return to the negotiating table if it votes to leave the European Union, one of the EU's top officials has said.  Speaking on the eve of the referendum, European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker said the outcome would be final and "out is out".  And the UK would not get a better deal than the one already negotiated by Prime Minister David Cameron.

Leave supporter Boris Johnson called Mr Juncker an "unelected tin-pot figure".  The former mayor of London said the remarks showed Mr Cameron's belief that the UK could achieve further reform to immigration rules from within the EU were a "sham, snare and a delusion".

More to follow...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36599300

[Admin]

I watched The Paxman c4 debate tonight that was filled with politicans old and new, business leaders, media, and people from the general population

Its a shame these kind of debates did not happen weeks and weeks ago and on an intense ongoing basis for all the issues to be thrashed out, I heard good arguments from both sides, and each side is a kaleidoscope of members, some surprising


No wonder at least a fifth of the population is undecided as there are so many intelligent informed and charismatic persons who are speaking for both sides


it truly is a gamble based on gut instinct because if youre honest no one can predict a single thing here

Oh well, roll on friday night for  results

I would say on balance that leaving the EU will guarantee a brighter future for all of us who take pride in our country.  Economics, trade and migration are the essential issues.

• Not sending millions of pounds to Brussels each and every week can only be good for our own economy.
• Europe sells much more to us than we do to them.  It is in their interest to keep us sweet, not the other way around.  Leaving the EU will open up tariff-free trading possibilities with the rest of the world, something which the other 27 EU States will be furious about.
• Taking back control of our immigration and deciding who we will allow to come and stay in the UK can only be good news.

Have I missed anything?

[mercury]

Well that goes without saying, if the uk leave they wouldnt have negotiating deals would they?, blame cameron for allowng the possibility

The thing the leave campaign dont think about much it seems is what impact the uk leaving might have on the eu and how it might trickle down to affect the uk, as i said before, not enough time has been spent on debating, ffs the yanks have over a year to campaign for a new president which will last for a few years, uks future is given, what? A few tv debates?

[Admin]

Well that goes without saying, if the uk leave they wouldnt have negotiating deals would they?, blame cameron for allowng the possibility

The thing the leave campaign dont think about much it seems is what impact the uk leaving might have on the eu and how it might trickle down to affect the uk, as i said before, not enough time has been spent on debating, ffs the yanks have over a year to campaign for a new president which will last for a few years, uks future is given, what? A few tv debates?

These deals we keep hearing about are with mickey mouse countries with tiny economies.  The EU does not have any deal with the likes of China or the USA.  Freed from the EU, the UK can negotiate its own deal with these countries and get a better deal into the bargain.

Something which has been conveniently pushed to the side by remain campaigners however is the question as to whether the EU can survive a Brexit? Many believe it will not as other countries follow our lead and get out.

The London based elite are destroying the UK slowly but surely, everything has until now been on their terms.  This is a once in a lifetime opportunity for people from all over the UK to TAKE BACK CONTROL.  Let's hope they take it!

[mercury]

I would say on balance that leaving the EU will guarantee a brighter future for all of us who take pride in our country.  Economics, trade and migration are the essential issues.

• Not sending millions of pounds to Brussels each and every week can only be good for our own economy.
• Europe sells much more to us than we do to them.  It is in their interest to keep us sweet, not the other way around.  Leaving the EU will open up tariff-free trading possibilities with the rest of the world, something which the other 27 EU States will be furious about.
• Taking back control of our immigration and deciding who we will allow to come and stay in the UK can only be good news.

Have I missed anything?

But all those arguments can be refuted and have been and we havent been given enough time to hear them all and check them out and make an informed decision, its really sad, and people will end up voting for who they like!! I cant do that as I like so many of them on both sides so I wont be voting probably BUT if I do it will be remain as the world is unstable enough and its the wrong time, cameron was pushed into it by ukip gaining support, that should tell u something...

On the other hand what the eu have done to countries like greece spain and portugal is disgusting, maybe they should get out too of the euro, but we will all be europeans always whatever happens, no one can take that away from us

[mercury]

The London based elite are destroying the UK slowly but surely, everything has until now been on their terms.  This is a once in a lifetime opportunity for people from all over the UK to TAKE BACK CONTROL.  Let's hope they take it!

But thats cameron and osborne destroying the country as we know it not immigrants

[stephen25000]

I would say on balance that leaving the EU will guarantee a brighter future for all of us who take pride in our country.  Economics, trade and migration are the essential issues.

• Not sending millions of pounds to Brussels each and every week can only be good for our own economy.
• Europe sells much more to us than we do to them.  It is in their interest to keep us sweet, not the other way around.  Leaving the EU will open up tariff-free trading possibilities with the rest of the world, something which the other 27 EU States will be furious about.
• Taking back control of our immigration and deciding who we will allow to come and stay in the UK can only be good news.

Have I missed anything?

1. We spend more on Foreign Aid, than the net payments to the EU after rebates.

2. When it comes to how many goods are sold back and forth, have you forgotten about the Finance Industry, which more than matches anything we pay to the EU.

3. Controlling immigration. Don't forget as much comes from outside the EU, including Commonwealth Countries. So what plans does Brexit have for that ?

4. We have the 5 th  best Economy in the world, INSIDE THE EU, why risk that for hot air from Brexit ???

[Mr Gray]

As i have said before....even if there is a majority today I doubt we will leave.....i hope i am wrong

[Alfie]

These deals we keep hearing about are with mickey mouse countries with tiny economies.  The EU does not have any deal with the likes of China or the USA.  Freed from the EU, the UK can negotiate its own deal with these countries and get a better deal into the bargain.

Something which has been conveniently pushed to the side by remain campaigners however is the question as to whether the EU can survive a Brexit? Many believe it will not as other countries follow our lead and get out.

The London based elite are destroying the UK slowly but surely, everything has until now been on their terms.  This is a once in a lifetime opportunity for people from all over the UK to TAKE BACK CONTROL.  Let's hope they take it!

How would it be  good for Europe if the EU were destroyed?

[Jean-Pierre]

1. We spend more on Foreign Aid, than the net payments to the EU after rebates.

2. When it comes to how many goods are sold back and forth, have you forgotten about the Finance Industry, which more than matches anything we pay to the EU.

3. Controlling immigration. Don't forget as much comes from outside the EU, including Commonwealth Countries. So what plans does Brexit have for that ?

4. We have the 5 th  best Economy in the world, INSIDE THE EU, why risk that for hot air from Brexit ???

You are quite correct Stephen. The cost to us of eu membership is small change.  Out budget is around £777bn.

The brexit campaign seems to founded on the premise that we are entirely controlled by our EU masters, with no power or influence on the direction of travel. 

One area which has not helped, however, is that UKIP have the largest representation - so being represented by an anti EU party is pretty toxic and destructive. 

[stephen25000]

You are quite correct Stephen. The cost to us of eu membership is small change.  Out budget is around £777bn.

The brexit campaign seems to founded on the premise that we are entirely controlled by our EU masters, with no power or influence on the direction of travel. 

One area which has not helped, however, is that UKIP have the largest representation - so being represented by an anti EU party is pretty toxic and destructive.

I have been surprised why the 'Stay In' Campaign did not point out to the voters precisely that. They have allowed in one sense, the Brexit campaign to almost dictate terms with their slogans, no matter how irrational they are.

As to Farage and his fellow UKIP members, I find their hypocrisy breathtaking, when they complain about money wasted in the EU, yet are quite happy to draw the salary and expenses which come with sitting in the EU Parliament and then do nothing to help the UK.

I really don't know which way the vote will go today, but the repercussions from this referendum will persist for some time.

[Admin]

You are quite correct Stephen. The cost to us of eu membership is small change.  Out budget is around £777bn.

The brexit campaign seems to founded on the premise that we are entirely controlled by our EU masters, with no power or influence on the direction of travel.

One area which has not helped, however, is that UKIP have the largest representation - so being represented by an anti EU party is pretty toxic and destructive.

Aren't we?   The EU dictates just about every aspect of our lives these days and denying it is to bury ones head in the sand.

Does anyone want closer political unity, a European Army and 90 million more members all with free access to our free NHS?  The UK is the envy of Europe with our social security system, free medical services and our liberal freedom of speech laws. Allow unfettered access and we end up just like the rest of them.

Those that promote the status quo are deluding themselves that staying in Europe is somehow a good thing.  I suspect most companies who do so trade directly with Europe and represent that tiny 9% of our GDP.  The vast majority of businesses in the UK however have very little or no exposure to Europe but nevertheless are hindered by EU rules.

One thing is for sure though and that is that Parliament will never be the same again and that can only be a good thing.