Author Topic: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.  (Read 165418 times)

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Offline sika

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #120 on: January 15, 2019, 08:08:50 AM »
This one, of no fixed address?    https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/dewsbury-duo-who-opened-fire-at-drug-deal-house-jailed-for-32-years-1-5249480
Good find Myster!  Yes that's the geezer.  He was heavily implicated in the supply of a firearm to Tate, days before the three were murdered.

Offline Myster

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #121 on: January 15, 2019, 09:03:13 AM »
Good find Myster!  Yes that's the geezer.  He was heavily implicated in the supply of a firearm to Tate, days before the three were murdered.
He got another pointless and useless six weeks after a failed appeal.  What a waste of space and court time!

https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/west-yorkshire-news/gunman-michael-bowman-loses-appeal-12060519
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Myster

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #122 on: January 15, 2019, 09:09:21 AM »
A sawn-off shotgun fired from the right side leaves more room than you think...





Shots must have been fired through the open rear door while the killer was talking to / negotiating with head man Tate who was sitting on the back seat.  Why would the killer bother to wind the window back up anyway?

It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #123 on: January 15, 2019, 11:20:40 AM »
So I noticed, but my post preceded sika's transcript.  My knowledge of this case is poor so bear with me.

Were all the victims shot through the offside rear door?  Whilst it was opened or through its opened window?  Whoever did the deed must have been an accomplished marksman to get three fairly accurate headshots on target in split seconds, before any of them had a chance to react... other than Tucker and Rolfe at the front turning their heads to the right to see what was happening if Tate on the rear seat was shot first. The rigid forward-pointing heads in the drawing are misleading, I think.

I need to carefully read/listen to all the authentic docs from the various experts.  Sika has transcribed some of the trial transcripts from the narrated vids you uploaded and these are the most important imo.  As with all these cases there's a lot of very misleading info in the public domain eg constant reference to a saw off shotgun. 

Initially I thought the gun person had opened the door(s) to shoot (found closed) and couldn't understand why ice hadn't formed inside but I now know the rear passenger side window was smashed and from my initial quick skim of the expert evidence it seems each victim initially sustained 1 disabling shot through the broken window Tate's side ie rear passenger side.  Not only would the gun person need to be a marksman but also have the psychology to kill on demand.  Afaik Steele and Whomes were not marksmen, did not have a history of aggression/violence and neither were military/police trained.

I don't think the victims were high enough up the chain to involve any government organisation if indeed such things even happen in 'real' life.  This leaves imo the following:

Leah Betts grieving father, Paul Betts, who was a retired police officer firearms trained and at the time run a clay pigeon shooting business.  Apparently at one time the police suspected him and checked all his firearms.  Leah died from taking in excess water following an ecstasy tablet.  Afaik the murdered trio, Steele and Whomes traded in cannabis but Tucker was responsible for the doors at Racquels nightclub where Leah was the night she took the tablet.

The trio had upset someone higher up the chain who had military/police trained personnel on their payroll who was happy to execute the trio for the right fee.  Or the gun person had been trained by some terrorist organisation eg IRA. 

I guess it's possible Steele had the right contacts but I can't see the motive and I very much doubt he personally was capable practically or psychologically of carrying out the murders.   

The shootings appear to have been carried out ambush style with military precision leaving no forensic evidence eg footprints/tyre tracks.  Everything appears to have been perfect from the location ie next to a shooting range to disguise the sound of gunshot - the expert said the sound would be heard over a mile away to maybe even planning it down to the weather ie snow which melted away footprints and tyre tracks. 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #124 on: January 15, 2019, 11:47:47 AM »
Maybe a near L-shape ambush:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lc51lsMXBkY

Could the presenter be Scipio?
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline sika

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #125 on: January 15, 2019, 12:25:01 PM »
I haven't transcribed anything from narrated videos.  I certainly couldn't be arsed to do that!

Offline sika

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #126 on: January 15, 2019, 12:32:14 PM »
Shots must have been fired through the open rear door while the killer was talking to / negotiating with head man Tate who was sitting on the back seat.  Why would the killer bother to wind the window back up anyway?


The prosecution case is that the other backseat passenger (Steele), left the vehicle under the pretence of unlocking and opening the gate.  In fact, Whomes was lying in wait, he handed Steele a gun so that they were now both armed.  Whomes then leaned into the car through the back door that Steele had left open and began the shooting.

Offline Myster

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #127 on: January 15, 2019, 12:33:51 PM »
Maybe a near L-shape ambush:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lc51lsMXBkY

Could the presenter be Scipio?
He died in Liternum, 183 BC. of natural causes or suicide.
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Myster

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #128 on: January 15, 2019, 12:37:20 PM »
The prosecution case is that the other backseat passenger (Steele), left the vehicle under the pretence of unlocking and opening the gate.  In fact, Whomes was lying in wait, he handed Steele a gun so that they were now both armed.  Whomes then leaned into the car through the back door that Steele had left open and began the shooting.
But if so, did Steele fire any shots or not?
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #129 on: January 15, 2019, 12:49:31 PM »
I haven't transcribed anything from narrated videos.  I certainly couldn't be arsed to do that!

Even I couldn't be arsed to do that and I can get pretty anorakish! 8(8-)) No I meant you posted up the transcripts of the narrated vids which I assume you have hard copies of.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #130 on: January 15, 2019, 12:51:09 PM »
He died in Liternum, 183 BC. of natural causes or suicide.

 @)(++(*

Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #131 on: January 15, 2019, 12:59:59 PM »
The prosecution case is that the other backseat passenger (Steele), left the vehicle under the pretence of unlocking and opening the gate.  In fact, Whomes was lying in wait, he handed Steele a gun so that they were now both armed.  Whomes then leaned into the car through the back door that Steele had left open and began the shooting.

Do you really see this as a credible scenario?  I don't.  Neither look fit enough to move around that swiftly. 

The expert in your transcript said:

All the cartridge cases had got the same marks and they came from the same gun.

Does he mean the exact same gun or the same model? 

Personally I think it was a single shooter highly trained and he/she made their own way there and back. 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #132 on: January 15, 2019, 01:08:03 PM »
The expert also said the following:

All 7 cartridge cases had been fired using the same weapon; probably a pump or self-loading gun having a large capacity magazine. He could not discount the use of a gun with a lesser magazine capacity, that that would have required reloading. The likelihood of a large capacity magazine and the appearance of the fired wads suggested the use of a gun with a full length barrel.

I think he is referring to the exact same weapon?  Maybe Steele/Whomes took turns passing it over the roof of the Range Rover as they did so!
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline sika

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #133 on: January 15, 2019, 02:50:50 PM »
Do you really see this as a credible scenario?  I don't.  Neither look fit enough to move around that swiftly. 

The expert in your transcript said:

All the cartridge cases had got the same marks and they came from the same gun.

Does he mean the exact same gun or the same model? 

Personally I think it was a single shooter highly trained and he/she made their own way there and back.
No.  I believe that that was the intention.  Whomes fired the initial shots as Steeles gun fell apart.  It has been suggested that Whomes then handed the gun to Steele, who then fired additional shots. 

Offline Myster

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #134 on: January 15, 2019, 03:04:54 PM »
The expert also said the following:

All 7 cartridge cases had been fired using the same weapon; probably a pump or self-loading gun having a large capacity magazine. He could not discount the use of a gun with a lesser magazine capacity, that that would have required reloading. The likelihood of a large capacity magazine and the appearance of the fired wads suggested the use of a gun with a full length barrel.

I think he is referring to the exact same weapon?  Maybe Steele/Whomes took turns passing it over the roof of the Range Rover as they did so!
So they must have been expert at circus tricks too!   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YICwx_r4gVU

Besides all the shotgun cartridges were fired from the offside of the vehicle, weren't they?  The rear nearside window was shattered by a shell fired from the offside, or caused by Tate's head banging against the glass maybe?
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.