Website that analyses the Anni Dewani murder in detail

[Admin]

This isn't a bad starting point

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=zvPKlGKHCTLI.km0iiNuRru1M&hl=en_US

Blimey Pb, where were you an hour ago?  Thanks. 

[Anna]

Thanks Anna.  The Judgement also refers to Mzoli's place but it is on the NY115 junction with Klipfontein Road.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Guguletu,+Cape+Town,+7750,+South+Africa/@-33.9765476,18.5701018,19z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x1dcc451e12077f77:0xad734f03ff900c79

http://www.mapquest.com/maps?address=Old+Klipfontein+Road&city=Cape+Town&state=Western+Cape&zipcode=7764&country=ZA&redirect=true#abdcfe9fc23f894038ef18e6

[Passer-by]

As a visitor you'd go round perhaps to the shopping centre in Claremont and visit the vinyards in Constantia (which Joe get lots of burglaries and hijackings) then drive without stopping in Muizenburg, which is a bit risky, until you got round to Kalk Bay, then you'd be safe apart from petty theft west of that line.  You'd probably go north to the big shopping mall/cinema/amusement park at Century City.  Apart from that you'd only really head east properly to beyond Cape Flats to go somewhere in the Hottentot Holland Mountains like Stellenbosch or Paarl, which are pretty rural towns with nice markets - Stellenbosch is posh Afrikaner heartland.  Further East is lots of lovely stuff, but it would start being somewhere you would stay the night and not do based from Cape Town.

[Passer-by]

Blimey Pb, where were you an hour ago?  Thanks. 

I was listening to a rather long talk about Minecraft, sorry ;-)

[Passer-by]

Apologies also for epic number of gibberish auto correct and typos like that random 'Joe' that popped up:  my 9 fingered typing is better than my 1, but I can never get near the computer 

[Passer-by]

MZOLI'S

Post-murder vignette from customers:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/9275324.stm

The Guardian Article again, which also confirms MZOLI's shut at 7pm.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/nov/21/south-africa-gugulethu-tourist-murder

It's essentially a 'Braii', which is what South Africans call a BBQ:  places like this often have great live music and can be very atmospheric.  It's bog standard in SA to have a terrace with cheap tables and chairs that immediately abuts to the carpark or dusty road.  Because it's popular with the locals there's probably less chance they will want to mess up their buddy's business so I'd imagine you're safe at it if you're careful how you get to it and are dressed down, which clearly the Dewani's were not.

[Anna]

MZOLI'S

Post-murder vignette from customers:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/9275324.stm

The Guardian Article again, which also confirms MZOLI's shut at 7pm.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/nov/21/south-africa-gugulethu-tourist-murder

It's essentially a 'Braii', which is what South Africans call a BBQ:  places like this often have great live music and can be very atmospheric.  It's bog standard in SA to have a terrace with cheap tables and chairs that immediately abuts to the carpark or dusty road.  Because it's popular with the locals there's probably less chance they will want to mess up their buddy's business so I'd imagine you're safe at it if you're careful how you get to it and are dressed down, which clearly the Dewani's were not.

I found that very interesting PB. Thank you

[Passer-by]

CAPE TOWN INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT

SOUTH Africa's airports used to be absolutely dire - 1960s Afrikaaner nuclear bunker style architecture and little more than a really old depressing village hall with an old ceiling-fan for aircon and a few trestle tables with locals selling beaded bracelets in the departure lounge, carefully watched by some large sweating uniformed Afrikaaner jobsworths, a loud clock slowly ticking away the huge delays and everyone's lives . . .

But as soon as they won the FIFA World Cup bid they engaged an Italian company to 'make-over' the airports - and the results are absolutely stunning - an absolute pleasure to travel through, large open airy spaces, with almost straight-line people-flows as you are processed walking through from one side of the building to the other.  There are 2 levels:  Departures is on the Top Floor, Arrivals in the bottom.  Your plane parks by the huge double-storey windows at the back of the airport, then you progress through the airport collecting your luggage, quick polite passport check, through the Arrivals Hall where there are desks for all the shuttle-bus companies, a bank, a large Tourist Information Desk and licensed Taxi Drivers are allowed to wait by the door with their cars in the Taxi Rank on the road that sweeps the front of the buildin:  they have ID pinned to them and their cars have license plates on them. 

Like everywhere in RSA there is a strong security presence, which includes patrolling up and down the Taxi rank, weeding out people who shouldn't be there and moving them on.  I spent a vast amount of time waiting at South African Airports (my other half hopped on and off planes like buses - it's actually easier and cheaper than driving to, say Joburg).- it's plain to see that the regular taxi drivers all know each other and the security guys.  In addition there is a police station at the airport and armed police patrolling - I'm not sure if the security guards are also armed (they generally are, or have an armed response unit).

If you have parked your car in the carpark or want to hire a car, you cross over the road for both these.  It is here, in the car park, that illegal taxi drivers hover about - their car won't even be in the car park though.  (This is why I can't understand how Dewani went this far to find a cheap taxi). 

I don't know about now, but back in 2010 the airport was also full of incredibly well trained staff (utterly incredible if you'd seen what SA used to be like!) - they had loads of 'helpers':  if you looked like you might need help they would politely approach you to ask, then turn and hail groups of more helpers waiting alertly at the side who would literally run over and one would get you a trolley, two more would pick up your bags they'd ask where you were going, offer to get you a taxi etc and then personally walk you to your airport destination transporting all your kit for you.  They would uniquivocally not have recommended an illegal taxi tout in the car park.

[Passer-by]

CAPE TOWN ATTRACTIONS

The Beaches at Clifton (where I Previously referenced Third Beach) - use the earlier map for bearings, but it's about 10 mins by taxi from the Dewani's hotel:
http://www.capetown.travel/attractions/entry/Clifton

Camps Bay Beach is more populous but has some fab bars and restaurants on the beach for sundowners (the sun literally sets into the sea as the beaches are west-facing - again, about 10mins from the hotel:
http://www.capetown.travel/attractions/entry/Camps_Bay

Table Mountain, again about 10mins or less from their hotel:
http://www.tablemountain.net

Historic Long Street in the CBD (Central Business District) - still full of authentic 'ordinary' South Africans going about their work, getting their groceries, etc - less than 5 mins from the Hotel, perfectly walkable great security, fantastic live music right down the street, only starts warming up about 11pm.
http://www.getaway.co.za/travel-ideas/things-to-do/things-to-do-long-street-nightlife-cape-town/

A few minutes further and you get to pretty fishing villages at Hout Bay, Chapman's Peak Drive (where exciting car commercials are filmed because of the winding mountainous coast road) etc or you can cut through to Constantia, where wines that would set you back £30 a bottle here sell for a fiver and you can eat fantastic local dishes like Bobotjie with them:
http://www.jonkershuisconstantia.co.za/photo-gallery/?id=14

Or carry on round to Kalk Bay, watch the catch being landed and the ladies de scale it on the key side before it is sold to the local fish restaurants for you to eat
http://www.harbourhouse.co.za

When you see all this you want to explore it.

[dewanifacts]

Passer-by

You are spamming this thread with tens of thousands of words about tourism activities in Cape Town, presumably with the aim of showing that a trip to Gugulethu was not a logical tourist destination for the Dewanis.

Notwithstanding the fact that Cape Town's tourism website promotes Gugulethu as a tourist destination, you have made your point and I don't think anyone in this thread will disagree with you that it was a poor choice considering the many other options available to the Dewanis.

Here is why all of your words are irrelevant. Shrien Dewani was not driving the motor vehicle. He and his wife were sitting in the back seat. Once Tongo had gained their trust as a knowledgeable friendly tour guide, he had only to get them to agree to his suggestions and he had carte blanche to drive them where he wanted, using whichever route he wanted. As tourists they would have been oblivious to the appropriateness of Tongo's choice of route. On the fatal trip back from the Surfside restaurant, Tongo did not even require the Dewanis' agreement to his suggestion to see some township nightlife. Even if they had demanded to be driven directly home, Tongo was still in control and could have chosen a route that intersected with the agreed hijack spot with the Dewanis being none the wiser.

You can start another thread for all your Cape Town tourism information. It is not relevant to this one.

[dewanifacts]

To correct a previous post. I stated that the helicopter money was in Anni's handbag. There is no definitive proof that this is the case and I should not have stated it as a fact. There is conjecture as to where the money was located. Dewani's plea statement claims that it was in Anni's handbag but this claim was never tested so cannot be taken as fact. Qwabe gave different stories in his testimony in Mngeni and Dewani trials. Mngeni's initial confession claimed that Qwabe was in a struggle with Anni for her handbag when he accidentally shot her. The money has never been found but given the other evidence it seems probable that Qwabe took the handbag from Anni, removed the money and chucked the bag. It was found empty in a a field nearby. 

What is known with absolute certainty is that Dewani did not give the helicopter money to Tongo. This was the original point being made, in agreement with Passer-by who claimed that it would have been highly improbable for Dewani to have done so.

[dewanifacts]

@dewanifacts

Your item #40 under the heading 'Claims proven beyond reasonable doubt to be TRUE'.


In the last paragraph you have entered into a speculation which is inappropriate.

Thanks for the feedback, John. I'll have a chat with the other guys and see what they think. There was some debate amongst us regarding how to present that particular point. Its such a crucial one and remains so difficult to explain that we felt that it required some fleshing out so that an uninitiated reader would be able to understand the context. Since we have begun expanding on some of the points in separate blog posts, I think we will likely run with your suggested amendment and link to a blog post for further information and analysis.

Thanks again for your feedback. It is appreciated.

[Passer-by]

The evidence both for and against Dewani is largely circumstantial so I can 'spam' this thread with as much background knowledge to help other people get a balanced picture of what millions of other tourists have done as I see fit.

You really are terribly dictatorial as well as patronising and frequently factually inaccurate.  Trying to get dissenters disqualified on a legal technicality might have got Dewani out of hot water in court, but this isn't a court.

[Passer-by]

Thanks for the feedback, John. I'll have a chat with the other guys and see what they think. There was some debate amongst us regarding how to present that particular point. Its such a crucial one and remains so difficult to explain that we felt that it required some fleshing out so that an uninitiated reader would be able to understand the context. Since we have begun expanding on some of the points in separate blog posts, I think we will likely run with your suggested amendment and link to a blog post for further information and analysis.

Thanks again for your feedback. It is appreciated.

Oh, 'fleshing out' is allowed now is it?

[dewanifacts]

I will not be drawn further into petty debate, Passer-by.

Your opinion is very clear. Dewani was a duplicitous, adulterous gay man who deceived his wife and allowed a taxi driver to take them to a dangerous part of South Africa and you therefore believe that it is inconceivable that he was not in some way involved in her murder.

It is your prerogative to hold such a view, however it is other posters' prerogative to hold you to account for that view.

Might I remind you that in addition to Dewani who was alleged to have been involved, there are four other known conspirators, and one who is unknown. In addition to your lack of knowledge about the facts of the case, you seem to possess a very small threshold of interest for questioning and analysing the story told by the other conspirators (namely Tongo, Mbolombo and Qwabe), whilst focusing solely on trying to discredit the one conspirator who has been acquitted of any involvement.

Is there a reason for your steadfast refusal to address the deficiencies in the hitman story as told by those conspirators?

Reply 99 on page 7 of this thread set out a few specific examples of the deception of these criminals, to which John admitted there was no argument. What is your view on the points set out in that post? 

You have made a point of hammering home your wish for me to answer your every question (which I have done) but the many questions that I have put to you have gone unanswered.