Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!

[Venturi Swirl]

I think you may very well be right, unfortunately. The only Labour government we have had in the last 40 years is the only Labour government in the last 40 years who have had the unqualified support of Murdoch and the ring-wing press....that says it all.

Fortunately the people of Great Britain are just too darned sensible to vote for a truly socialist government, having seen the damage it can cause both here and in other countries around the world.  That is why if you do want a Labour government ever again you should be pushing hard for a return to the centre ground  pdq. 

[faithlilly]

Fortunately the people of Great Britain are just too darned sensible to vote for a truly socialist government, having seen the damage it can cause both here and in other countries around the world.  That is why if you do want a Labour government ever again you should be pushing hard for a return to the centre ground  pdq.

Or too susceptible to propaganda ?

Many of Labour’s policies were very popular...the four day week pledge was greatly derided yet we now we have the prime minister of Finland, not the most socialist of countries, suggesting the very same. Poles have also shown that the public on the whole support the re-nationalisation of our public services, another Labour policy. In parts of the Labour manifesto were so popular that Johnson has nicked them.

[Venturi Swirl]

Faithlilly - Answering your question on the appropriate thread.  You provided the names of 200 British Jews who had signed a letter in support of Corbyn.   My contention is that they were in a minority, and here is support for that contention:

British Jews
In 2017, a poll commissioned by Campaign Against [ censored word]emitism of 1,864 British Jewish adults[391] found that 83% (in 2016, 87%) felt that the Labour Party was too tolerant of [ censored word]emitism among its MPs, members, or supporters.[392]
A Survation poll by The Jewish Chronicle prior to the 2017 general election found that 13% of Jews intended to vote for Labour, an increase from the 8.5% in May 2016. When asked to rank the degree of "[ censored word]emitism among the political party's members and elected representatives" between 1 (low) to 5 (high), Jews ranked Labour at 3.94, compared with 3.64 for UKIP, 2.7 for the Liberal Democrats, and 1.96 for the Conservatives.[393][non-primary source needed]
In September 2018, a Survation survey conducted for The Jewish Chronicle found that 85.9% of British Jews considered Jeremy Corbyn [ censored word]emitic, and 85.6% considered the Labour Party to have "high" or "very high" levels of [ censored word]emitism within the party's members and elected representatives. This compares to 1.7% and 6.1% for Theresa May and the Conservative Party respectively. This was an increase from 69% who considered the party to have "high" or "very high" levels of [ censored word]emitism in 2017.[394][non-primary source needed]
A poll conducted for The Jewish Chronicle by Survation in October 2019 showed that 87% of British Jews believed that Corbyn was [ censored word]emitic, with 47% "seriously considering" leaving the country if Corbyn became Prime Minister.

[Venturi Swirl]

Or too susceptible to propaganda ?

Many of Labour’s policies were very popular...the four day week pledge was greatly derided yet we now we have the prime minister of Finland, not the most socialist of countries, suggesting the very same. Poles have also shown that the public on the whole support the re-nationalisation of our public services, another Labour policy. In parts of the Labour manifesto were so popular that Johnson has nicked them.

Of course parts of the Labour manifesto were popular, it promised freebies for everyone with cherries on top(hell, they nearly got my vote with the free internet thing (joke)), but as a whole people could see what a fantastical manifesto it was that would not have been economically sustainable, IMO.

[Erngath]

On Friday evening we had a discussion with friends about the election results.
We all agreed that never, ever in our wilder dreams could we imagine a time when there would be only one Labour MP from Scotland in Westminster.
The idea of such a turn around in the fortune of the Labour party here would have been thought of as ridiculous!
I'm afraid Jeremy must shoulder the blame.

[faithlilly]

On Friday evening we had a discussion with friends about the election results.
We all agreed that never, ever in our wilder dreams could we imagine a time when there would be only one Labour MP from Scotland in Westminster.
The idea of such a turn around in the fortune of the Labour party here would have been thought of as ridiculous!
I'm afraid Jeremy must shoulder the blame.

The rot in Scotland for Labour set in long before Corbyn became leader. In fact I believe in the 2017 election Labour regained some of the seats that were lost. Look at the statistics and when Labour’s downward spiral in Scotland  becomes abundantly clear.

[faithlilly]

Of course parts of the Labour manifesto were popular, it promised freebies for everyone with cherries on top(hell, they nearly got my vote with the free internet thing (joke)), but as a whole people could see what a fantastical manifesto it was that would not have been economically sustainable, IMO.

I agree that the manifesto may have been too far ranging for people to believe but dramatic action was, and is, needed in this once great nation. One in five children in poverty....what an absolute disgrace in the 5th richest company in the world.

However that doesn’t take away from the fact that many of what would be considered ‘socialist ‘ policies were very popular.

[Erngath]

The rot in Scotland for Labour set in long before Corbyn became leader. In fact I believe in the 2017 election Labour regained some of the seats that were lost. Look at the statistics and when Labour’s downward spiral in Scotland  becomes abundantly clear.

The rot in Scotland may have set in before Corbyn became leader but did he do anything to stop the rot which is now complete as far as Westminster is concerned.
It may be that in the Holyrood election Labour will fare better.

[Venturi Swirl]

I agree that the manifesto may have been too far ranging for people to believe but dramatic action was, and is, needed in this once great nation. One in five children in poverty....what an absolute disgrace in the 5th richest company in the world.

However that doesn’t take away from the fact that many of what would be considered ‘socialist ‘ policies were very popular.

Probably best not to describe them as socialist policies then or wave Mao’s little red book around in the HoC, it doesn’t help.  How’s child poverty doing in Venezuela btw? 

[faithlilly]

Faithlilly - Answering your question on the appropriate thread.  You provided the names of 200 British Jews who had signed a letter in support of Corbyn.   My contention is that they were in a minority, and here is support for that contention:

British Jews
In 2017, a poll commissioned by Campaign Against [ censored word]emitism of 1,864 British Jewish adults[391] found that 83% (in 2016, 87%) felt that the Labour Party was too tolerant of [ censored word]emitism among its MPs, members, or supporters.[392]
A Survation poll by The Jewish Chronicle prior to the 2017 general election found that 13% of Jews intended to vote for Labour, an increase from the 8.5% in May 2016. When asked to rank the degree of "[ censored word]emitism among the political party's members and elected representatives" between 1 (low) to 5 (high), Jews ranked Labour at 3.94, compared with 3.64 for UKIP, 2.7 for the Liberal Democrats, and 1.96 for the Conservatives.[393][non-primary source needed]
In September 2018, a Survation survey conducted for The Jewish Chronicle found that 85.9% of British Jews considered Jeremy Corbyn [ censored word]emitic, and 85.6% considered the Labour Party to have "high" or "very high" levels of [ censored word]emitism within the party's members and elected representatives. This compares to 1.7% and 6.1% for Theresa May and the Conservative Party respectively. This was an increase from 69% who considered the party to have "high" or "very high" levels of [ censored word]emitism in 2017.[394][non-primary source needed]
A poll conducted for The Jewish Chronicle by Survation in October 2019 showed that 87% of British Jews believed that Corbyn was [ censored word]emitic, with 47% "seriously considering" leaving the country if Corbyn became Prime Minister.

I posted the names of members and supporters of Labour, people with real experience of life within the party. Not being picky but you have posted polls carried out within the general public who have no real knowledge, or experience, of [ censored word]emitism within the party outside of what they have read or heard in the media.

Off topic but the lies that were told by the Express about the McCanns are still doing the rounds on forums. They were not true to begin with, the parents sued and the Express apologised and admitted that they had no basis in fact for the stories  but still the lies persist. People intimate with the McCanns know that most of what was printed was lies but some of the public still believe them and form an opinion because of them.

You suggested that the hundreds of people whose names I posted in support of Corby are simply deluded but fail to countenance that, with their lack of knowledge of the internal workings of the Labour Party and the smears of the right wing media, it is actually the public who are, through no fault of their own, being misled.

[faithlilly]

Probably best not to describe them as socialist policies then or wave Mao’s little red book around in the HoC, it doesn’t help.  How’s child poverty doing in Venezuela btw?

But I thought we were better than Venezuela? Is it worth pointing out that we have obtained these shocking levels of child poverty under a capitalist system ?

[Venturi Swirl]

I posted the names of members and supporters of Labour, people with real experience of life within the party. Not being picky but you have posted polls carried out within the general public who have no real knowledge, or experience, of [ censored word]emitism within the party outside of what they have read or heard in the media.

Off topic but the lies that were told by the Express about the McCanns are still doing the rounds on forums. They were not true to begin with, the parents sued and the Express apologised and admitted that they had no basis in fact for the stories  but still the lies persist. People intimate with the McCanns know that most of what was printed was lies but some of the public still believe them and form an opinion because of them.

You suggested that the hundreds of people whose names I posted in support of Corby are simply deluded but fail to countenance that, with their lack of knowledge of the internal workings of the Labour Party and the smears of the right wing media, it is actually the public who are, through no fault of their own, being misled.

See, I told you that you’d rubbish my reply and true to form you did.  What were were we debating again? 

[Venturi Swirl]

But I thought we were better than Venezuela? Is it worth pointing out that we have obtained these shocking levels of child poverty under a capitalist system ?

Did Corbyn think we were better than Venezuela or did he think Venezuela was a model worth adopting?  Capitalism is not perfect but it works, which is more than can be said for the sort of socialism Jeremy so admires.

[Venturi Swirl]

Interesting comment in today’s Times

“Karie Murphy's proposed elevation is deeply offensive, and not only to Jews.  Running Corbyn's office, she was primarily responsible for ensuring that allegations of [ censored word]emitism by valued comrades gathered dust - a deliberate policy decision, including demanding that all such complaints went across her desk first.

A personal friend of Len McCluskey, in 2012 and 2013 she was intimately involved in a vote-rigging scandal, orchestrated by Scottish Unite officials, surrounding her proposed candidacy for the vacant Falkirk seat.  She resigned the candidacy in disgrace and was suspended from the party.  She also failed to be selected as PPC for Halifax in 2015, ending her Parliamentary aspirations for good.

Subsequent evidence emerged (in 2019) suggesting that she had personally forged 39 membership applications in the Falkirk scandal.  (Times report, 3 November 2019).

Corbyn's personal wish to ensure she has a job (which none of his successor candidates will give her) is understandable.  His hypocrisy in using a system of establishment patronage he pretends to despise is sickening.

If Karie Murphy were an honourable person - which she is not - she would not accept a peerage anyway.  Instead she will join Two Jags Prescott on the leather upholstery bemoaning the privilege of the toffs and aristocrats”.

[Venturi Swirl]

See, I told you that you’d rubbish my reply and true to form you did.  What were were we debating again?

Ah yes, I remember.

I wrote re: Corbyn’s performance on dealing with [ censored word]emitism “

“Yes, turned a blind eye, didn’t act fast enough or firmly enough.  Dilly-dallied.  Weak, ineffectual leadership but, hey, this thread is about Boris isn’t it?  I don’t have to deal with anything, Labour do.  Sort it out!!”

you wrote

“Mmmmmm....not according to many Jewish members of the U.K.”

and then presented a list of 200 British Jews who supported Corbyn back in 2018 I believe.

So do those 200 Jews constitute the many, or even the majority of British Jews, or does the information I provided tend to suggest the opposite?

Mmmmm....