Why was Yvonne Martin's offer of help dismissed so readily?

[Snowgirl]

Where did he leave the child in the pram I wonder while he used the toilet ?

[G-Unit]

OK it is well documented but it is prior to the meeting with Gerry not after.

As he doesn't remember the where (bar, restaurant or toilet) what makes you think he remembers the when?

[Eleanor]

Where did he leave the child in the pram I wonder while he used the toilet ?

Sometimes it's what you don't say that matters.

[G-Unit]

Where did he leave the child in the pram I wonder while he used the toilet ?

Good question.

[John]

The weekend beckons once again and with it will come the usual silliness. However, members are warned that referring to other members as naive, immature, hypocritical, stupid etc is a breach of forum etiquette and as such will attract sanctions.

Please keep posts amiable and constructive and above all please avoid goading or demeaning comments. TY.

[Brietta]

When reading things in retrospect it is easy to assume that everything followed everything else in a logical sequence of events when in reality that was not the case.

For example for quite a long time I assumed that the Jane Tanner sighting and the Smith sighting were made known to the police in the hours after Madeleine's disappearance ~ Jane's on their arrival at the scene and the Smiths' when the news broke about a missing child that morning.

I was amazed to be told ... and I had to be told because at that time I was not familiar with dates of events as recorded in the files ... that there was a time gap of a fortnight between both events.

Which apparently is much the same time it took for Yvonne Martin to communicate her concerns about an individual in the McCann party in an anonymous letter to the British police while she was still in Portugal and the Portuguese investigation into Madeleine's disappearance was in full flow.

[Alice Purjorick]

When reading things in retrospect it is easy to assume that everything followed everything else in a logical sequence of events when in reality that was not the case.

For example for quite a long time I assumed that the Jane Tanner sighting and the Smith sighting were made known to the police in the hours after Madeleine's disappearance ~ Jane's on their arrival at the scene and the Smiths' when the news broke about a missing child that morning.

I was amazed to be told ... and I had to be told because at that time I was not familiar with dates of events as recorded in the files ... that there was a time gap of a fortnight between both events.

Which apparently is much the same time it took for Yvonne Martin to communicate her concerns about an individual in the McCann party in an anonymous letter to the British police while she was still in Portugal and the Portuguese investigation into Madeleine's disappearance was in full flow.

Jane Tanner was questioned about her "sighting" whilst making her statement on 10th May 2007.

[G-Unit]

Jane Tanner was questioned about her "sighting" whilst making her statement on 10th May 2007.

Yvonne Martin was questioned again in mid-November, I notice. Rebelo was interested then.

[Mr Gray]

Yvonne Martin was questioned again in mid-November, I notice. Rebelo was interested then.

I think the whole PJ investigation including Rebelo was hampered by their misunderstanding  of the dog alerts...
As far as the PJ were concerned... The dogs who had solved 200 cases... Had never been wrong... Detected cadaver in 5a..
If that was true then it's enough to convince anyone the McCanns were guilty

[Brietta]

Jane Tanner was questioned about her "sighting" whilst making her statement on 10th May 2007.

Jane Tanner told the police about the man she had seen carrying a child away from the apartment when they arrived on the scene.

Snip
And then I think they, Russell was there when I spoke to the PJ, because I can remember Russell coming in with me when I spoke to the PJ, because there was Russell and Gerry was there as well in the apartment when I spoke to the PJ. And that was the first time I'd ever been into their, into Kate and Gerry's apartment through the whole week, I hadn't, it might seem like, but we hadn't really been into their apartment before".

01.04.52 4078 "Sorry, was that on the night that Madeleine had disappeared?"
Reply "That was at three o'clock in the morning after she'd disappeared, yeah".

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm

She reiterated her sighting when she gave her witness statement on 4th May

Snip
As regards these details, she does not know what Madeleine was wearing at the moment of her disappearance, because she did not talk to anyone about this. As she concerns the man she saw, she only spoke to Gerald about this, not entering into details, and to the police.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE-TANNER.htm


The question isn't why Jane Tanner took no action as soon as she could for the simple reason she did.  The question is why did it take Yvonne Martin so long to report her concerns ... not to the appropriate authority but to the British police till some time later if she thought children might be at risk?

[slartibartfast]

I think the whole PJ investigation including Rebelo was hampered by their misunderstanding  of the dog alerts...
As far as the PJ were concerned... The dogs who had solved 200 cases... Had never been wrong... Detected cadaver in 5a..
If that was true then it's enough to convince anyone the McCanns were guilty

I think you are trying to talk up the significance of the dog alerts to the investigation.

[G-Unit]

Jane Tanner told the police about the man she had seen carrying a child away from the apartment when they arrived on the scene.

Snip
And then I think they, Russell was there when I spoke to the PJ, because I can remember Russell coming in with me when I spoke to the PJ, because there was Russell and Gerry was there as well in the apartment when I spoke to the PJ. And that was the first time I'd ever been into their, into Kate and Gerry's apartment through the whole week, I hadn't, it might seem like, but we hadn't really been into their apartment before".

01.04.52 4078 "Sorry, was that on the night that Madeleine had disappeared?"
Reply "That was at three o'clock in the morning after she'd disappeared, yeah".

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm

She reiterated her sighting when she gave her witness statement on 4th May

Snip
As regards these details, she does not know what Madeleine was wearing at the moment of her disappearance, because she did not talk to anyone about this. As she concerns the man she saw, she only spoke to Gerald about this, not entering into details, and to the police.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE-TANNER.htm


The question isn't why Jane Tanner took no action as soon as she could for the simple reason she did.  The question is why did it take Yvonne Martin so long to report her concerns ... not to the appropriate authority but to the British police till some time later if she thought children might be at risk?

According to the PJ they spoke only to Gerry McCann.

[jassi]

Jane Tanner told the police about the man she had seen carrying a child away from the apartment when they arrived on the scene.

Snip
And then I think they, Russell was there when I spoke to the PJ, because I can remember Russell coming in with me when I spoke to the PJ, because there was Russell and Gerry was there as well in the apartment when I spoke to the PJ. And that was the first time I'd ever been into their, into Kate and Gerry's apartment through the whole week, I hadn't, it might seem like, but we hadn't really been into their apartment before".

01.04.52 4078 "Sorry, was that on the night that Madeleine had disappeared?"
Reply "That was at three o'clock in the morning after she'd disappeared, yeah".

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm

She reiterated her sighting when she gave her witness statement on 4th May

Snip
As regards these details, she does not know what Madeleine was wearing at the moment of her disappearance, because she did not talk to anyone about this. As she concerns the man she saw, she only spoke to Gerald about this, not entering into details, and to the police.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE-TANNER.htm


The question isn't why Jane Tanner took no action as soon as she could for the simple reason she did.  The question is why did it take Yvonne Martin so long to report her concerns ... not to the appropriate authority but to the British police till some time later if she thought children might be at risk?

Wonder who was looking after her children at 3 am  when she and Russel were elsewhere?

Fiona was with Kate
Rachael was looking after her children & Diane was looking after Fiona's children

[Mr Gray]

I think you are trying to talk up the significance of the dog alerts to the investigation.

I would say Im absolutely right ...perhaps you should reconsider

Chief Inspector Tavares de Almeida said he believed the British child had died in her family's apartment in the Algarve resort of Praia da Luz on the day she went missing. He told the court the main evidence for this was the findings of British police sniffer dogs sent to Portugal to examine the flat. The McCanns' lawyer, Isabel Duarte, challenged this claim, arguing that the results from sniffer dogs did not constitute proof and were not allowed as evidence in the case.

www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/jan/12/madeleine-mccann-parents-defamation-book


so according to Almeida....the main evidence re death in the apartment was the dog alerts......the  whole PJ case is based on this main evidence...an absolute disgrace IMO

[John]

I would say Im absolutely right ...perhaps you should reconsider

Chief Inspector Tavares de Almeida said he believed the British child had died in her family's apartment in the Algarve resort of Praia da Luz on the day she went missing. He told the court the main evidence for this was the findings of British police sniffer dogs sent to Portugal to examine the flat. The McCanns' lawyer, Isabel Duarte, challenged this claim, arguing that the results from sniffer dogs did not constitute proof and were not allowed as evidence in the case.

www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/jan/12/madeleine-mccann-parents-defamation-book


so according to Almeida....the main evidence re death in the apartment was the dog alerts......the  whole PJ case is based on this main evidence...an absolute disgrace IMO

I see we're back to the same argument again.  Let's be clear, the sniffer dog alerts were suggestive of cadaver odour, no more or no less can be implied imo.  It is also incorrect to claim that the whole PJ case was based on the dog alerts.  When police investigate a case they do so in a methodical systematic manner. Several pieces of evidence will be put together in order to form a thesis.