Other witnesses cast doubt on Bundleman sighting?

[Jacinta]

It looks from the Files that the PJ had doubts about the McCanns because other witness testimonies seem to contradict the time of Jane Tanner's sighting.

Link: http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/P-J-HAVE-DOUBTS.htm (bottom paragraphs)

"Interview of an employee from the swimming pool bar.

In her interview, this employee states that access is restricted to clients and that this is controlled via the client's card at the entrance. She adds that she has not come across any unauthorised person on the site. She explains that on the day of Madeleine's disappearance, at around 8.30pm, her friend was called following a problem with a lock in an apartment situated close to the "Millenium" restaurant. She went there with her friend. At around 9pm, they went back towards the Club's reception. They passed near the "Tapas" and by the McCann family's apartment. They state that they saw nothing suspicious. They saw no one and no vehicles. Her friend left the premises at around 9.10pm with his service vehicle and she left at 9.15pm in her own car.

[The case file contains numerous witness statements like that, so that together, these witness statements contradict the statements from the "tapas9" group. A reconstruction would have made this clear immediately and would have highlighted the contradictions of the informants.]"

Does anyone know who the employee from the swimming pool bar is?

[gilet]

It looks from the Files that the PJ had doubts about the McCanns because other witness testimonies seem to contradict the time of Jane Tanner's sighting.

Link: http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/P-J-HAVE-DOUBTS.htm (bottom paragraphs)

Does anyone know who the employee from the swimming pool bar is?

These statements were taken long, long before the summation by the AG which concludes that there was no evidence of any crime by the McCanns. Are you suggesting that these statements were not investigated by the PJ? Are you suggesting that theseA statements were not taken into account by the AG when he made his conclusion? Or what are you suggesting?

[Redblossom]

It looks from the Files that the PJ had doubts about the McCanns because other witness testimonies seem to contradict the time of Jane Tanner's sighting.

Link: http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/P-J-HAVE-DOUBTS.htm (bottom paragraphs)

Does anyone know who the employee from the swimming pool bar is?

Hi Jacinta, here you go
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/HAYLEY-CRAWFORD.htm

[Jacinta]

These statements were taken long, long before the summation by the AG which concludes that there was no evidence of any crime by the McCanns. Are you suggesting that these statements were not investigated by the PJ? Are you suggesting that theseA statements were not taken into account by the AG when he made his conclusion? Or what are you suggesting?

Awww, that's not nice Gilet  I'm not suggesting anything. I came across this in the files while looking for something else. I asked if anyone knew who the employee from the swimming pool bar is so I can check for myself.

[Jacinta]

Hi Jacinta, here you go
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/HAYLEY-CRAWFORD.htm

Thank you Redblossom 

Jaci x

[Redblossom]

Here is another statement from the resident/owner of the flat two floors above the Mccanns holiday apartment, she too saw or heard nothing from her balcony around the time

Mind you IF an abduction  took place it could have been so quick no one would notice even if they were there staring at the time....if nothing  suspicious was seen


Question: This is a story you've followed incredibly closely because you were involved on the night; you helped the police and the family in looking for Madeleine, didn't you?
 
Susan Moyes: Yes, we did and, yes, very, very concerned... concerned for the family and followed it, every day... every day.
 
Q: Can you take us back to that night and... and what you were doing and when you first heard there was a problem?
 
SM: Sure. We went out for a meal about 7 o'clock, down in the town, we walked back about 9 o'clock, round past, errm... the... the church, round past the supermarket, back to the apartment, went out on the balcony about quarter past nine - everywhere was peaceful, everywhere was lovely - we then went to bed.
 
We were woken up at half past eleven at night by one of the friends of the McCanns to say 'a little girl' had 'been abducted'; those... those were the words used. So, we got dressed and joined in the search, we were out until about four in the morning with, oooh… about, I don't know, thirty people... thirty other people, maybe. The Mark Warner team were out, errm... and other guests at the Ocean Club.

[AnneGuedes]

So no hearing of a chat in Francisco Gentil Martins and, mainly, no spotting of 2 men and a pushchair on the other side of the street.

[Benice]

So no hearing of a chat in Francisco Gentil Martins and, mainly, no spotting of 2 men and a pushchair on the other side of the street.

The times given are approximate not definite.  That fact is relevant when talking about timelines of just a few minutes.

Jez Wilkins gave the time spent talking to Gerry as 3 to 5 mins.    It is certainly not beyond the realms of possiblity that no-one, except someone actually passing them,  saw them in such a short period of time.

[Sherlock Holmes]

The times given are approximate not definite.  That fact is relevant when talking about timelines of just a few minutes.

Jez Wilkins gave the time spent talking to Gerry as 3 to 5 mins.    It is certainly not beyond the realms of possiblity that no-one, except someone actually passing them,  saw them in such a short period of time.

Good point Benice, they could easily have escaped attention.

The more I hear about how quite things were, by all accounts, the harder I find it to imagine that Madeleine was taken by a team of people that night, creeping around and hiding on balconies and in bushes as some people (ahem) suggest. Seemingly, nobody but nobody was noticed.

The fact that these witnesses are employees and neighbours gives them a fair amount of credibility in terms of their assessment of the situation that night. Being familiar with a place, one is more sensitive to abnormal activity. Nothing seems to have been picked up on.

[icabodcrane]

The times given are approximate not definite.  That fact is relevant when talking about timelines of just a few minutes.

Jez Wilkins gave the time spent talking to Gerry as 3 to 5 mins.    It is certainly not beyond the realms of possiblity that no-one, except someone actually passing them,  saw them in such a short period of time.

What   COULD  be beyond the realms of possibility,  though,  is that the person who was actually passing them  (  and noticed them  )   was not seen  ... or noticed by them reciprocally

[Sherlock Holmes]

What   COULD  be beyond the realms of possibility,  though,  is that the person who was actually passing them  (  and noticed them  )   was not seen  ... or noticed by them reciprocally

You mean within the realms of possibility, Icabod?

[icabodcrane]

You mean within the realms of possibility, Icabod?

No Sherlock,  I don't

I don't think it is within the realms of possibility that Jane Tanner could have passed by Gerry McCann and Jez Wilkins that night without either of them having noticed her  ...  particulary given that both Tanner and Wilkins claim  to have been on the same pavement when the supposed  'passing'  happened   ( it was Gerry alone who claimed to have been on the other side of the street  ) 

I have pictured the scene over and over  ...  a quiet still street,   at dusk,   without a soul in sight,  no sound of traffic ... just an empty still street      ...  and a woman passes the whole length of it  without either men noticing her  ?   

wouldn't happen 

[Sherlock Holmes]

No Sherlock,  I don't

I don't think it is within the realms of possibility that Jane Tanner could have passed by Gerry McCann and Jez Wilkins that night without either of them having noticed her  ...  particulary given that both Tanner and Wilkins claim  to have been on the same pavement when the supposed  'passing'  happened   ( it was Gerry alone who claimed to have been on the other side of the street  ) 

I have pictured the scene over and over  ...  a quiet still street,   at dusk,   without a soul in sight,  no sound of traffic ... just an empty still street      ...  and a woman passes the whole length of it  without either men noticing her  ?   

wouldn't happen

Even with the two men engrossed in conversation?

[icabodcrane]

Even with the two men engrossed in conversation?

The whole scene is wrong ...  just doesn't make sense

Jane Tanner,  on seeing Gerry,  ( and  according to her she passed him and Jez Wilkins within touching distance,  remember   )  did not offer a word of acknowledgement  ?  ...  did not say,  "hey Gerry,  Kate is moaning that you've been watching the football"   ...  or maybe just a  "hi"  as she passed so close by 

No ...   she just  silently passes her friend on the same pavement with no acknowledgement at all

Her friend  (  Gerry  )  so  'engrossed'  in a conversation with Jez Wilkins failed to notice her at all ...  a conversation that Jez Wilkins himself described as a simple  'chat'  in passing,  with someone he knew remotely from  'tennis' 

Jez Wilkins,  who,  like Tanner,  insists they were standing  on the pavement outside the McCann's apartment has no recollection of anyone  passing by as he and Gerry chatted briefly

None of it makes sense

...  and as Judge Judy says   :  "If it doesn't make sense,  it's probably not true"

[Sherlock Holmes]

The whole scene is wrong ...  just doesn't make sense

Jane Tanner,  on seeing Gerry,  ( and  according to her she passed him and Jez Wilkins within touching distance,  remember   )  did not offer a word of acknowledgement  ?  ...  did not say,  "hey Gerry,  Kate is moaning that you've been watching the football"   ...  or maybe just a  "hi"  as she passed so close by 

No ...   she just  silently passes her friend on the same pavement with no acknowledgement at all

Her friend  (  Gerry  )  so  'engrossed'  in a conversation with Jez Wilkins failed to notice her at all ...  a conversation that Jez Wilkins himself described as a simple  'chat'  in passing,  with someone he knew remotely from  'tennis' 

Jez Wilkins,  who,  like Tanner,  insists they were standing  on the pavement outside the McCann's apartment has no recollection of anyone  passing by as he and Gerry chatted briefly

None of it makes sense

...  and as Judge Judy says   :  "If it doesn't make sense,  it's probably not true"

Perhaps Jane didn't address Gerry because she didn't want to interrupt? She was also walking quite purposefully, one presumes, on the way to check her children, and didn't indicate, either verbally or in body language, that she wanted to stop for a chat - so she went un-noticed.

Nonetheless I agree with you that it is odd that neither Gerry or Jez remember her walking past.

What do you say actually happened, then? Did Jane get her timing wrong? This has been gone through so many times and it is hard to believe that she did...

I appreciate that Judge Judy is one of the most important thinkers of the modern age, but with respect to her, things that don't 'make sense' happen all the time. It is our inability to comprehend things, due to lack of information, that brings us to term something as not making sense. 'Crazy' things happen, behind which there is normally a perfectly good explanation - only that we don't know it.