The suspicious Polish couple, their apartment in Burgau and DNA connection.

[John]

A Polish couple identified as Wojciech Kamil Krokowski and Anetta Malgorzata Krokowski Jarosinska, holidaying just 4 Km from Praia da Luz came under scrutiny when a parent reported a case of attempted abduction and of inappropriate photographs being taken of young children.  The apartment where the couple were staying was forensically examined and mitochondrial DNA recovered from hairs samples.  Curiously, one sample matched with Robert Murat while two others were identical matches to Jane Tanner. 

NB These results all be they interesting do not prove a DNA connection to any individual.  Many people will share identical DNA haplotypes through their maternal bloodline, these may be recent or can date back to antiquity, or could even be the result of mtDNA mutations over the course of human history.

www.miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5022.msg178624#msg178624


Background

Shortly after the news of Madeleine McCann's disappearance broke, a Portuguese national, then living in Germany, came forward, alleging that on 29th April he had confronted a man taking pictures of his four-year-old daughter on a beach at Sagres (25 Km west of Luz).

The concerned parent had a second encounter with the suspicious individual in a pastry shop later that afternoon and was convinced that his own daughter was about to be abducted had he not stepped in.  He watched the man get into the drivers seat of a grey Renault Clio and noted that this time he was accompanied by a woman who was seated in the passenger seat.  He was so concerned he photographed the vehicle using his mobile phone, noting down its registration on a piece of scrap paper but later discarded it thinking no more of the incident.



Image of the Renault Clio taken at 6.08pm on 29 April 2007.

On the 4th May while waiting in a cafe in Sagres he again saw the suspicious man walking alone this time. When he got home to his mother's residence he was alerted to the events in nearby Praia da Luz the previous evening so he decided that he needed to report the incident to police.  The witness told police that his daughter bears a striking resemblance to Madeleine McCann.

The parent remembered sufficient detail of the cars registration which enabled the PJ to trace it to a nearby car hire office.  They then determined who was renting the vehicle and this information led them to a Polish couple who were staying at Aparthotel Sol e Mar in Burgau (4Km west of Luz). The Polish couple had by then vacated the apartment and was unoccupied which allowed the PJ to carry out a full forensic examination.

Read the full report

21

[John]

Investigations were made in several business premises in Burgau resulting in the couple being identified by one of the bar owners who remembered them as being Polish and had a discussed football with them. The owner of the bar had recalled that they had enquired of him where they could buy some classical music and he had directed them to the FNAC shop at the Algarve shopping centre or to the Chiado commercial centre.

CCTV surveillance footage from the FNAC shop in the Chiado centre was seized and images of various couples extracted. The images were shown to the parent who made the original complaint on 4 May resulting in the Polish couple being identified.

Read the full report



Polish couple identified from CCTV surveillance footage.

Details of the encounter was sent to Warsaw for police to trace and interview the Polish couple.  Using the "PAX-LIST" (passenger list), persons in seats around the couple were shown pictures of Madeleine and all stated that they were not accompanied by any child.  The couple were interviewed in their home apartment, which was searched but the missing child was not found. Read link

Leicestershire Constabulary reported that the female had a criminal record in respect of an alcohol and drug driving offence in 2003 and of obtaining property by deception. Read link

[John]

The background to this connection is quite incredible. DNA testing showed that samples identically matched the mitochondrial DNA of Jane Tanner and Robert Murat (Processo n' 2007/000565/PT-B). The reports in question were provided by the Servicos de Genetica e Biologia Forense based in Lisbon at the request of Paulo Rebelo. When we talk about hair samples and hair haplotypes we are talking about mtDNA profiles and a system (called haplogroups) that illustrate how these profiles relate to common ancestry groups. One human cell contains two types of DNA - nuclear and mitochondrial. mtDNA is inherited from a mother to a child. Surprisingly, mtDNA analysis is more sensitive than nuclear DNA profiling. The samples found in the Solimar Apartments were identical haplotype matches to Tanner and Murat. This means that the samples were either from them or two people having the same maternal bloodline.

Mitochondrial DNA is and how it relates to profiling.

For highly degraded samples, it is sometimes impossible to get a complete profile of the 13 CODIS STRs. In these situations, mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) is sometimes typed due to there being many copies of mtDNA in a cell, while there may only be 1-2 copies of the nuclear DNA. Forensic scientists amplify the HV1 and HV2 regions of the mtDNA, and then sequence each region and compare single-nucleotide differences to a reference. Because mtDNA is maternally inherited, directly linked maternal relatives can be used as match references, such as one's maternal grandmother's daughter's son. In general, a difference of two or more nucleotides is considered to be an exclusion. Heteroplasmy and poly-C differences may throw off straight sequence comparisons, so some expertise on the part of the analyst is required. mtDNA is useful in determining clear identities, such as those of missing people when a maternally linked relative can be found. mtDNA testing was used in determining that Anna Anderson was not the Russian princess she had claimed to be, Anastasia Romanov.

mtDNA can be obtained from such material as hair shafts and old bones/teeth. Control mechanism based on interaction point with data. This is determined by tooled placement in sample.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_profiling#Mitochondrial_analysis;



From the PJ files...

The Haplotype identified by the letters M e M*, present in 49 samples, (35 in the Residencia Liliana, 13 in the vehicle Volkswagen and 1 in the bathroom of the apartament in Burgau), and identical to that of Robert James Queriol Eveleight Murat (RQMU), meaning those samples were from that person or individuals of the same maternal bloodline.

The Haplotype identified by the letter S, present in 2 samples, (apartment in Burgau), and identical to that of Jane Michelle Tanner (JT), meaning those samples were from that person or individuals of the same maternal bloodline.

Section 13   www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PORTUGUESE-FORENSIC.htm#oa1v2p284

[Mr Gray]

John...could you provide a link to the files where it mentions this mdna link. The first thing that occurs to me is where did they get a sample of Jane Tanners MDNA.

[DCI]

John...could you provide a link to the files where it mentions this mdna link. The first thing that occurs to me is where did they get a sample of Jane Tanners MDNA.

Can't find link, seems no longer available to click on.
Have found results though!

Immediately, the question concerning the differentiating value of some haplotypes [haplotype (Greek haploos = single) is a combination of alleles at multiple loci that are transmitted together on the same chromosome] was raised, namely concerning JANE TANNER, page 4175, which was located in a residence in Burgau, which, in our understanding, would not be viable and logical, or to say the least, would be very strange. Therefore, in order to clarify this situation, a clarification was requested from that Institute, pages 4320 and following, which, in its reply, is peremptory in stating that there are haplotypes that are identical among each other, in a percentage that is still significant, pages 4325 to 4328. This means that the hair that was found inside that residence, while possessing the same haplotype as JANE TANNER, belongs to someone else.

[Carana]

The background to this connection is quite incredible. DNA testing showed that samples identically matched the mitochondrial DNA of Jane Tanner and Robert Murat (Processo n' 2007/000565/PT-B). The reports in question were provided by the Servicos de Genetica e Biologia Forense based in Lisbon at the request of Paulo Rebelo. When we talk about hair samples and hair haplotypes we are talking about mtDNA profiles and a system (called haplogroups) that illustrate how these profiles relate to common ancestry groups. One human cell contains two types of DNA - nuclear and mitochondrial. mtDNA is inherited from a mother to a child. Surprisingly, mtDNA analysis is more sensitive than nuclear DNA profiling. The samples found in the Solimar Apartments were identical haplotype matches to Tanner and Murat. This means that the samples were either from them or two people having the same maternal bloodline.

Mitochondrial DNA is and how it relates to profiling.

For highly degraded samples, it is sometimes impossible to get a complete profile of the 13 CODIS STRs. In these situations, mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) is sometimes typed due to there being many copies of mtDNA in a cell, while there may only be 1-2 copies of the nuclear DNA. Forensic scientists amplify the HV1 and HV2 regions of the mtDNA, and then sequence each region and compare single-nucleotide differences to a reference. Because mtDNA is maternally inherited, directly linked maternal relatives can be used as match references, such as one's maternal grandmother's daughter's son. In general, a difference of two or more nucleotides is considered to be an exclusion. Heteroplasmy and poly-C differences may throw off straight sequence comparisons, so some expertise on the part of the analyst is required. mtDNA is useful in determining clear identities, such as those of missing people when a maternally linked relative can be found. mtDNA testing was used in determining that Anna Anderson was not the Russian princess she had claimed to be, Anastasia Romanov.

mtDNA can be obtained from such material as hair shafts and old bones/teeth. Control mechanism based on interaction point with data. This is determined by tooled placement in sample.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_profiling#Mitochondrial_analysis;



From the PJ files...

The Haplotype identified by the letters M e M*, present in 49 samples, (35 in the Residencia Liliana, 13 in the vehicle Volkswagen and 1 in the bathroom of the apartament in Burgau), and identical to that of Robert James Queriol Eveleight Murat (RQMU), meaning those samples were from that person or individuals of the same maternal bloodline.

The Haplotype identified by the letter S, present in 2 samples, (apartment in Burgau), and identical to that of Jane Michelle Tanner (JT), meaning those samples were from that person or individuals of the same maternal bloodline.

John....

Some people had the same haplotypes. Big deal.

Kate, the children, and one of the Portuguese cops in that apartment shared the same haplotype LOL

[Wonderfulspam]

Malinka's old sofa had some hair on it too, & he had a phone...... >@@(*&)

'The alleged similarity between hairs found on the discarded sofa and in Apartment 5A is only theoretical. Since no DNA had been obtained in 2007 from S.M. the only comparison that could be done in the Lisbon lab was to extract and analyse the MtDNA from the hairs and place them in the relevant Haplotype groups.

Haplotype X - apart. Ocean Club e sofa of 1-seat in the garage in Portimao
Haplotype Y - apart. Ocean Club e sofa of 1-seat in the garage in Portimao
Haplotype Z - Residencia Liliana e sofa of 1-seat in the garage in Portimao

But since there are only a certain number of haplotypes it is of absolute no relevance if the same haplotype is found in two different spots.

There was also a similarity of hairs in a completely unrelated apartment in Burgau and Apartment 5A. And if my hair was tested I am sure my haplotype would fit one of the hairs found in 5A as well.'

http://unterdenteppichgekehrt.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/going-through-motions.html?spref=tw

[Carana]

Malinka's old sofa had some hair on it too, & he had a phone...... >@@(*&)

'The alleged similarity between hairs found on the discarded sofa and in Apartment 5A is only theoretical. Since no DNA had been obtained in 2007 from S.M. the only comparison that could be done in the Lisbon lab was to extract and analyse the MtDNA from the hairs and place them in the relevant Haplotype groups.

Haplotype X - apart. Ocean Club e sofa of 1-seat in the garage in Portimao
Haplotype Y - apart. Ocean Club e sofa of 1-seat in the garage in Portimao
Haplotype Z - Residencia Liliana e sofa of 1-seat in the garage in Portimao

But since there are only a certain number of haplotypes it is of absolute no relevance if the same haplotype is found in two different spots.

There was also a similarity of hairs in a completely unrelated apartment in Burgau and Apartment 5A. And if my hair was tested I am sure my haplotype would fit one of the hairs found in 5A as well.'

http://unterdenteppichgekehrt.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/going-through-motions.html?spref=tw

I haven't found anything to substantiate where the sofas (1 x 2-seater and 2 armchairs, seemingly) tested in a PJ garage came from, let alone who they may have belonged to, nor who may have left hairs on them.

[Wonderfulspam]

It was reported in CdM originally, so, who knows?!

'One of the other arguidos is Sergey Malinka, a Russian that had already been constituted as an arguido [sic, he wasn't constituted as an arguido but was considered as a possible suspect to the PJ investigation at the time and cleared of all suspicions later on] by the PJ in 2007. [Malinka] Who had a sofa - that he tried to dispose of and which was later retrieved by the PJ and was subject to forensic analyses - where hairs whose DNA “was similar to hairs previously found in the 5A apartment (to Maddie's hairs) and to those that were retrieved from Robert Murat's bed”.

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2014/07/phone-calls-and-hairs-frame-suspects.html

[Carana]

It was reported in CdM originally, so, who knows?!

'One of the other arguidos is Sergey Malinka, a Russian that had already been constituted as an arguido [sic, he wasn't constituted as an arguido but was considered as a possible suspect to the PJ investigation at the time and cleared of all suspicions later on] by the PJ in 2007. [Malinka] Who had a sofa - that he tried to dispose of and which was later retrieved by the PJ and was subject to forensic analyses - where hairs whose DNA “was similar to hairs previously found in the 5A apartment (to Maddie's hairs) and to those that were retrieved from Robert Murat's bed”.

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2014/07/phone-calls-and-hairs-frame-suspects.html

CdaM... Hmmm.

None of the X, Y, Z haplotypes could have been Madeleine's.

[Eleanor]

Malinka's old sofa had some hair on it too, & he had a phone...... >@@(*&)

'The alleged similarity between hairs found on the discarded sofa and in Apartment 5A is only theoretical. Since no DNA had been obtained in 2007 from S.M. the only comparison that could be done in the Lisbon lab was to extract and analyse the MtDNA from the hairs and place them in the relevant Haplotype groups.

Haplotype X - apart. Ocean Club e sofa of 1-seat in the garage in Portimao
Haplotype Y - apart. Ocean Club e sofa of 1-seat in the garage in Portimao
Haplotype Z - Residencia Liliana e sofa of 1-seat in the garage in Portimao

But since there are only a certain number of haplotypes it is of absolute no relevance if the same haplotype is found in two different spots.

There was also a similarity of hairs in a completely unrelated apartment in Burgau and Apartment 5A. And if my hair was tested I am sure my haplotype would fit one of the hairs found in 5A as well.'

http://unterdenteppichgekehrt.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/going-through-motions.html?spref=tw

You are right.  This was all explained quite simply, a long time ago.  There are  a limited number of haplotypes, so it doesn't mean very much at all if there is no DNA.

[Carana]

I'd already posted what I'd found here:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4679.msg171318#msg171318

[Mr Moderator]

John...could you provide a link to the files where it mentions this mdna link. The first thing that occurs to me is where did they get a sample of Jane Tanners MDNA.

If I may >> Section 13  www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PORTUGUESE-FORENSIC.htm#oa1v2p284

[Carana]

If I may >> Section 13  www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PORTUGUESE-FORENSIC.htm#oa1v2p284

Yes... and:


"[Rough translation]
In response to your letter I advise that a mitochondrial DNA profile is not an exclusive or objective identification of a single [determined] person. Consulting the regional control sequences in the EMPOP database we find 8 results that are identical (zero differences) to the Haplotype S sample, from a total population [universe] of 3830 samples in the 'West Eurasia' population group, known as the populations of Europe."

And that would just be a consultation of whatever was in the database at the time.

As far as I'm aware, Kate and the kids are not related to the PT cop there that night... but they apparently share the same mtDNA haplotype.

[Mr Gray]

getting back on topic it seems that the mDNA does not prove any connection