The suspicious Polish couple, their apartment in Burgau and DNA connection.

[VIXTE]

IMO the result of this test was misinterpreted .. Depending on the area where they were born many humans share similar DNA characteristics. This wouldn't mean they are distant relatives.
It really depends on what type of test was used here but unlike the paternity tests the possible relatives tests are a bit more complicated.

[Mr Gray]

is this another example of the PJ not understanding forensic evidence

[Carana]

As I've pointed out before:

Translated by Albym, I believe:

[Rough translation]
In response to your letter I advise that a mitochondrial DNA profile is not an exclusive or objective identification of a single [determined] person. Consulting the regional control sequences in the EMPOP database we find 8 results that are identical (zero differences) to the Haplotype S sample, from a total population [universe] of 3830 samples in the 'West Eurasia' population group, known as the populations of Europe.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PORTUGUESE-FORENSIC.htm

And as I (and others) have tried to point out before, the most practical use of mtDNA in forensics is to exclude someone, i.e., if your haplogroup is not the same, then you aren't the person in question. However, if you do happen to share the same one, then it is more complicated as it would depend on the likelihood of you, someone sharing your maternal lineage, or someone unrelated being the person in question.

An analogy: an mtDNA analysis of a fine blonde hair at a crime scene in Norway is arguably less significant that finding one at a crime scene on a remote island inhabited solely by people with thick black hair with no reference samples of fine blonde hair in the database of the indigenous population ... and one Norwegian tourist who happened to share the most common haplotype in his native land. Even then, it wouldn't necessarily mean that the Norwegian was actually physically present at the crime scene as hairs can cling to clothes or anything else. ETA: and even if the Norwegian had been at the crime scene, he could have been there prior to the crime. On its own, it would mean zilch.

From a reference publication used by the INML:

Sequence databases are our best source of information regarding the power of mtDNA for identity testing. Given that it is expected that maternal relatives will match each other (barring mutation or "substitution"), it is clear that mtDNA is not a unique identifier. Moreover, mtDNA lineages extend back into time to various depths of antiquity, with the result that one's mtDNA lineage generally encompasses many more individuals than would be included in one's known relatives. In addition to the potential for matching other individuals of the same lineage, matches will also occur to other mtDNA lineages that have mutated independently to consist of the same mtDNA sequence.

p.9

II Interpretation of mtDNA data in the forensic context

A. Match significance

When one applies mtDNA sequence typing as a forensic test, it is clear that the purpose is to answer to related questions: (a) through sequence comparison, could an individual be excluded as a possible source of a questioned same?, and (b) if not, what does this inclusion suggest regarding the chance that the individual is, in fact, the source of the questioned sample? If the answer to the first question is yes, the exclusion is an outcome of obvious significance (for which MtDNA testing has a clear and proven utility). However, if an individual is included as a potential source, one is immediately face with the second question. Unless the discriminatory potential of a test can be objectively evaluated, an inclusion could mean anything.
p.11
http://www.bioforensics.com/conference08/mtDNA_YSTR/Holland_and_Parsons_1999.pdf

[Carana]

is this another example of the PJ not understanding forensic evidence

Hmm. In this instance, I find that the standard wording used by the INML wasn't clear. The "maternal lineage" could go back hundreds of thousands of years, or the haplogroup could have mutated from another one, which is hardly useful in most criminal investigations.

On the other hand, I can easily imagine that standard phrase being presented with a bow on it as "proof".

[blonk]

Perhaps of even more interest than the mtDNA of the hairs found at the Sol e Mar apartments (of the identical haplotype to Jane Tanner and Robert Murat) is the whole fascinating story of how the Polish man became a suspect in the first place.   

Nuno Lourenco's CLAIM was that he saw the man - let's give him his real name: WOJCIECH KROKOWSKI - slyly taking photos of his children and others on Sagres beach at around 4pm on Sunday 29 April. He then describes a second attempt by Krokowski to kidnap his child outside a pastry shop at about 6pm the same day. Even reading his account of these two ALLEGED incident gives rise for doubt, but even more so the fact that he didn't report this to police for another SIX days.

He did so (he says) under these circumstances:

* He saw Krokowski AGAIN at a car rentals on Friday 4 May
* His wife told him the same day to report it to the police because Krokowski might have abducted Madeleine McCann, and
* He only reported his disturbing encounter with Krokowski when Krokowski and his partner during Saturday 5 May, when they were already airborne from Faro en route to Berlin and Warsaw.   

But what is also remarkable was how Lourenco's description of Krokowski was a virtual carbon copy of Jane Tanner's description, given the day before to police, of 'Tannerman':

1. FACE

Tannerman:   Dark-skinned individual, couldn’t see his face
Sagres (Polish) man:  Caucasian with Latin colouring…’of medium complexion’

2.  AGE

Tannerman:  Aged 35-40
Sagres (Polish) man:  Between 35-40 years of age

3.   HEIGHT

Tannerman:   About 1.7m tall (5’ 7”)
Sagres (Polish) man:  Around 170 to 175 cm in height (5’ 7” - 5’ 9”)

4.   HAIR

Tannerman:  Very dark, thick hair, longer at the back
Sagres (Polish) man:  Curly, dark brown hair that ran down to the back of his neck, and in a pony tail

5.   JACKET

Tannerman:  Wearing a dark ‘duffy’ sic type jacket (but not that thick), a sort of anorak, of the same material as his trousers
Sagres (Polish) man:  He wore a cream-coloured cloth coat/jacket, of the same material as his trousers

6.   TROUSERS

Tannerman: He was wearing linen type ‘chino style’ cloth trousers, beige to golden in colour, like ‘corticite’, of the same material as his jacket
Sagres (Polish) man: He wore cloth trousers, of the same material as his jacket 

7.   SHOES

Tannerman: His shoes were dark in colour, classic type
Sagres (Polish) man:  His shoes, he thinks, were dark brown…and of the type that need to be shined or polished [i.e. leather]. In his book, Dr Goncalo Amaral says they were ‘shoes of a classic type’

8.   BUILD

Tannerman: Slim physical appearance
Sagres (Polish) man:  (no comment made)

9.   NOT A TOURIST

Tannerman:  By the way he was dressed, he gave her the impression that he was not a   tourist, because he was very "warmly dressed".
Sagres  man: (no comment made, but Dr Goncalo Amaral writes in his book (Chapter 3): “The stranger did not look like a tourist”.


Were the police meant, in the initial stages of the investigation, to believe that Krokowski had abducted Madeleine?

It certainly looks like it. Goncal Amaral dropped everything and alerted Interpol and the German police so fast that the plane was surrounded at Berlin Airport and Krokowski and the other passengers questioned.

Had someone planned to use Krokowski as a fake abductor?

And it's certainly of interest that Krokowski stayed at the Sol e Mar apartments, Burgau, built by Robert Murat's father, and that most of the evidence about his movements came from staff at the Burgau beach bar, owned by Robert Murat's aunt and uncle, Ralph and Sally Eveleigh.

The Sol e Mar apartments, it may be recalled, were tagged on the internet with these words: sexo, sex, adulto, adult, lonely, romance, girls, boys

[Carana]

I think a translation mistake may be at the root of this confusion over haplotypes (at least for English speakers). I understand "podendo" to mean "may" and it was left out in English.

Taking one at random:

- The Haplotype identified by the letter B1, present in one sample, and identical to that of Maria Irene Trovao Ferro (IF), meaning that sample was from her or an individual of the same maternal bloodline.


- O haplótipo identificado pela letra B1, presente numa amostra, é idêntico ao de Maria Irene Trovao Ferro, PODENDO esta amostra pertenecer à própria ou a individuos da mesma linhagem materna.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/oa/OA2_1/o_apenso_1_Vol_2_p296.jpg

If my understanding is correct, it should have read "... this sample MAY belong to her or to inviduals of the same maternal bloodline."

It also makes sense of the correspondence explaining that there were 8 bloodlines with an identical haplotype to JT in the database and also that a Portuguese cop shares the same one as Kate and the children.

The broader confusion seems to be the misconception that a forensic mtDNA profile is as comprehensive as a medical one. It's not. It seems to be the equivalent of a dialling code and about as much use - a dialling code may be helpful to exclude someone who couldn't have "called" from wherever at a certain time, but it isn't enough to be able to state that a particular person phoned from a particular number. At most, it's a "maybe" unless there are a host of other factors to exclude it belonging to anyone else.

[Admin]

Madeleine McCann detectives examine former suspect's pictures after Sunday People probe



24 October 2015

Wojciech Krokowski's flat was searched after the three-year-old vanished but he was ruled out and has now given us snaps he took around the time she went missing.



Keen photographer: Wojciech Krokowski in Warsaw

Officers are scouring ­dozens of images from the camera of businessman Wojciech Krokowski, from Poland.

They are focusing on those he took while in Praia da Luz at the time Madeleine went missing – on May 3, 2007.

Krokowski’s flat was searched after the three-year-old vanished. Portuguese cops later ruled him out.

The images British ­detectives are looking at is in a batch of hundreds handed over to us by the Pole during an interview.

Among them is a ­picture of Mr Krokowski, 52, taken in Portugal in May 2007.

It bears a resemblance to the image of a man walking with a sleeping child – an ­artist’s impression of the ­kidnap which was released in September 2007.

The picture was publicised widely in the hope it would jog ­memories about Madeleine.

But British police agreed the picture was not Mr Krokowski.

Mr Krokowski told our ­investigators he liked taking pictures of ­children while he was on trips abroad.

He said he was amazed he had not been contacted since ­police reopened the case in 2011. The Pole insisted: “ I am ready to speak to them any time they want.”

Mr Krokowski said he ­wanted to ­remove a shadow that has been hanging over him since he ­became the ­subject of an international manhunt over Madeleine.

It is the latest twist in the long-running saga in which British police have vowed to leave no stone unturned to solve the mystery of what ­happened to Madeleine.

The extensive Scotland Yard review, which began in 2011, has so far cost more than £10million, with an extra £2million set for next year.

Mr Krokowski and his wife Anetta, 50, stayed in the Solimar apartments in Burgau just two miles from Praia da Luz between Saturday April 28 April and Saturday May 5 in 2007.



Impression: Drawing of a child kidnap

Madeleine was snatched from her apartment while her doctor parents Kate, now 47, and Gerry, 46, dined nearby with friends.

We tracked Mr Krokowski to his office in the Polish ­capital. He admitted he enjoys taking pictures of ­children on holiday but ­that it was for ­artistic purposes. In his first-ever newspaper interview he said: “I take ­photos of old people, young people, landscapes and I have a lot of pictures from places like Thailand, Greece, Portugal, France, with kids on them.

“But I never thought about kids as a sexual object. Nothing like this, never, never never. I am a simple man with normal sexual orientations.”



Relaxed: Mr Krokowski on holiday

Mr Krokowski revealed that although Polish police officers quizzed the couple and searched their apartment and the home of his father, they never ­confiscated his camera or inspected his pictures.

Goncalo Amaral, the controversial detective who led the original Portuguese investigation before he was replaced, has said he regretted that the Polish police probe into the couple was not taken further and that they did not seize Mr Krokowski’s camera and look at his holiday pics at that time.

But Mr Krokowski, who describes himself as an “obsessive photographer” told us he still had every single picture he took the day Madeleine vanished and handed them over so we could pass them to Operation Grange.

Our man met Mr Krokowski at the offices of his interior design business in a suburb of central Warsaw near the banks of the river Vistula. Smart and professional, Mr Krokowski was in a meeting when we first called but cut the session short in order to speak to us when we ­explained who we were.

Over a couple of hours together he spoke at length about his involvement in the case and how he was eager to clear his name once and for all.

He revealed the accusations had cast a shadow over him and his wife for eight years and that he had no idea he was being thought of as a suspect until ­police knocked on his door.



Holiday home: Solimar Apartments on Rua Da Nora in Burgau, Portugal, where Wojciech Krokowski stayed with his wife

The couple were made a top priority by Portuguese detectives in the ­immediate aftermath of Madeleine’s disappearance. They issued a CCTV picture of the Polish couple at a ­shopping mall in Portugal which went round the world.

The move came after a tourist claimed a man fitting Mr Krokowski’s appearance and driving a rental car was taking pictures of his children in the resort of Sagres just a 20-minute drive from Praia da Luz.

The tourist claimed he feared the man wanted to kidnap his daughter, who he said bore a striking resemblance to Madeleine. But by the time the report was made, the Krokowskis had left for their Warsaw home. They pair were ­approached by police within half an hour after returning.

Their rental apartment in Portugal was also searched by forensic science experts but no charges were brought.

Mr Krokowski said he has ­taken a close interest in the case and was surprised he had not been ­contacted since the early days of the investigation.

He said: “I have followed this issue and know the British police are re-investigating.

“They have not been in touch with me yet but of course I am ready to speak to them any time they want to.

“Me and my wife came back to Poland via Berlin.

“We came back on the Saturday evening and took the train to Warsaw on Sunday morning.

“Half an hour after we got back the Polish police visited me at home and said they were there because of Madeleine.

“I said, ‘Welcome, please look around, go through my flat.’

“I flew back by plane and train, it would have been impossible to take someone with me.

“They seemed satisfied with that and I was never contacted again.

“But still on the internet I find the reports from the Portuguese police about us as ‘suspects’ and everything we were supposed to have done at this time.

“I am never comfortable when I read this and see I am a suspect. It’s not so good.

“I thought it was strange that I was a suspect. I am a normal man.

“I like ­children. I dream of having them but my wife has had some problems with alcohol and petty crimes over the years so we never had them.

“But I am a great ‘father’ to my friend’s ­children so it was a great pity for me that some ­parents lost their daughter.”

Speaking about the photos from his holiday in 2007, Mr Krokowski said he was happy to hand them over.

He added: “We are not the type of people to lie on the beach so we travelled a lot in that area between Sagres and Burgau and I have plenty of photos from our time there but the police never asked for them.



Shopping: CCTV footage of Wojciech Krokowski and his wife in the week Maddie went missing

“I thought once maybe I should show those photos. They are not just ­landscapes, there are lots of people. Maybe something in there could be helpful.

“I collect all my photographs, I still have them from that trip, of course you can have them if they could help in anyway.”

The Sunday People can also reveal Operation Grange has been looking at possible leads in northern and central Europe.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-detectives-examine-former-6699750

[misty]

Doesn't it appear unbelievable that, once again, the PJ failed to carry out the most obvious part of the investigation
into Krokowski?
He was reported because he was taking lots of photos of children. So what did the PJ do? They searched his holiday apt & hire car and asked the Polish police to conduct a search of his home.
 All the while, the contents of his camera, which may or may not have been innocent, seem to have lain unchecked for 8 years. Is this because the McCanns never actually went to Sagres beach, contrary to what so many sceptics claim, and therefore this witness is probably totally irrelevant to the inquiry?

[faithlilly]

Doesn't it appear unbelievable that, once again, the PJ failed to carry out the most obvious part of the investigation
into Krokowski?
He was reported because he was taking lots of photos of children. So what did the PJ do? They searched his holiday apt & hire car and asked the Polish police to conduct a search of his home.
 All the while, the contents of his camera, which may or may not have been innocent, seem to have lain unchecked for 8 years. Is this because the McCanns never actually went to Sagres beach, contrary to what so many sceptics claim, and therefore this witness is probably totally irrelevant to the inquiry?

And doesn't it appear unbelievable that in four year and with an over ten million pounds budget SY don't seem to have got round to it either ?

[misty]

And doesn't it appear unbelievable that in four year and with an over ten million pounds budget SY don't seem to have got round to it either ?

Whose job was it, Faith, when this guy was a numero uno suspect to the PJ in the very early days? Who was in charge?

[pathfinder73]

SAT 5 MAY 2007

POLISH LEAD IN SAGRES

Hundreds of statements continue to be gathered in Vila da Luz. All the people of the area are interviewed: resort employees, tourists, play leaders from the crèches, residents. Most of them will be of no use to us, but none must be neglected.

From information from Sagres, we learn that an individual has been surprised on Mareta beach taking photos of several children and in particular of a little girl aged 4, blonde with blue eyes, who looks like Madeleine. It was the little girl's father who noticed him. This 40 year-old man, wearing glasses, tells the investigators that the photographer tried to kidnap his daughter in the afternoon of April 26th in Sagres.

He allegedly then fled in a hired car with a woman in the passenger seat. The stranger did not look like a tourist; brown hair down to his collar, wearing cream-coloured trousers and jacket and shoes of a classic style. This report reminds us of the individual encountered by Jane Tanner in the streets of Vila da Luz on the evening of Madeleine's disappearance.

Thanks to the father's composure, he managed to take a photograph of the vehicle. It's not very clear and does not allow us to make out the number plate, but we succeed, nonetheless, in finding the car. The car hire firm provides us with the identity of the driver. He is a forty-year-old Polish man, who is traveling with his wife. They arrived in Portugal on April 28th, from Berlin. At Faro airport, they hired a car and put up in an apartment in Budens, near Praia da Luz. Unfortunately, on May 5th, at 7am, they had already left, taking with them their camera and all the photos from their holiday. We ask the German police, through Interpol, to monitor them as soon as they arrive in Berlin. All the passengers are questioned, but no one has seen a child looking like Madeleine. In Berlin, the couple take the train to return to Poland. Thus, the Polish trail comes to an end. We would like to have seen their photos...but that proved impossible.

A lead is only valuable in as far as it is followed to the end, which was not the case with this one. We will realise that we shouldn't have ruled it out so quickly, and that it is still a topic of interest. (GA)

[Miss Taken Identity]

Good ole Sunday People, revealing SY leads...perhaps they should reveal more  since they are in the know?

I thought Tannerman came forward to say it was him Mr Innocent with his daughter comming from the créche?
Hmmm velly intellething

[misty]

SAT 5 MAY 2007

POLISH LEAD IN SAGRES

Hundreds of statements continue to be gathered in Vila da Luz. All the people of the area are interviewed: resort employees, tourists, play leaders from the crèches, residents. Most of them will be of no use to us, but none must be neglected.

From information from Sagres, we learn that an individual has been surprised on Mareta beach taking photos of several children and in particular of a little girl aged 4, blonde with blue eyes, who looks like Madeleine. It was the little girl's father who noticed him. This 40 year-old man, wearing glasses, tells the investigators that the photographer tried to kidnap his daughter in the afternoon of April 26th in Sagres.

He allegedly then fled in a hired car with a woman in the passenger seat. The stranger did not look like a tourist; brown hair down to his collar, wearing cream-coloured trousers and jacket and shoes of a classic style. This report reminds us of the individual encountered by Jane Tanner in the streets of Vila da Luz on the evening of Madeleine's disappearance.

Thanks to the father's composure, he managed to take a photograph of the vehicle. It's not very clear and does not allow us to make out the number plate, but we succeed, nonetheless, in finding the car. The car hire firm provides us with the identity of the driver. He is a forty-year-old Polish man, who is traveling with his wife. They arrived in Portugal on April 28th, from Berlin. At Faro airport, they hired a car and put up in an apartment in Budens, near Praia da Luz. Unfortunately, on May 5th, at 7am, they had already left, taking with them their camera and all the photos from their holiday. We ask the German police, through Interpol, to monitor them as soon as they arrive in Berlin. All the passengers are questioned, but no one has seen a child looking like Madeleine. In Berlin, the couple take the train to return to Poland. Thus, the Polish trail comes to an end. We would like to have seen their photos...but that proved impossible.

A lead is only valuable in as far as it is followed to the end, which was not the case with this one. We will realise that we shouldn't have ruled it out so quickly, and that it is still a topic of interest. (GA)

Thanks for that, P/F.
No explanation from GA as to why it was impossible to view the photos the witness apparently still has in his possession.

[pathfinder73]

Thanks for that, P/F.
No explanation from GA as to why it was impossible to view the photos the witness apparently still has in his possession.

The German police were supposed to get their photos but they didn't.

[faithlilly]

Whose job was it, Faith, when this guy was a numero uno suspect to the PJ in the very early days? Who was in charge?

So if Amaral failed to follow up a very important lead why are SY not questioning him now ?