Author Topic: Was the forensic search of Apt 5a incomplete?  (Read 1715 times)

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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Was the forensic search of Apt 5a incomplete?
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2017, 11:45:01 AM »
Why?
The sheets amy hold dna of an abductor

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Was the forensic search of Apt 5a incomplete?
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2017, 11:55:42 AM »
The police initially were treating this a child wandering off - no crime.
When did this officially change to abduction - crime ?
The day they collect the hairs etc do they put a date on the report?  I heard some say it was 2 weeks later.  That doesn't make sense for you'd think all hairs would have been vacuumed up by then.
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Offline Innominate

Re: Was the forensic search of Apt 5a incomplete?
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2017, 12:16:40 PM »
The day they collect the hairs etc do they put a date on the report?  I heard some say it was 2 weeks later.  That doesn't make sense for you'd think all hairs would have been vacuumed up by then.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_FORENSIC_4_5_7.htm

On 4 May 2007, at 15:30, a Crime Scene team from the Police Science Laboratory, comprising the undersigned, went, at the request of DIC PJ Portimao, to a dwelling situated at Apartment 5A, of Block A of the tourist accommodation building, "Ocean Club" - Praia da Luz, Lagos, in order to perform a specialist examination of the location.

Who did that and when?

The area of the pillow of the bed from the minor disappeared was inspected with the intention to detect the presence of some smell [aroma] characteristic of volatile substances typical of chloroform or ether, this search proving negative

They checked for hairs in the hallway, so why not in the master bedroom?

Agreed. Why not check the master bedroom? Far more traffic in the second bedroom, hallway and sitting room IMO.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Was the forensic search of Apt 5a incomplete?
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2017, 12:34:05 PM »
The sheets amy hold dna of an abductor

Was it usual or even possible in 2007 to find DNA on fabrics?
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Was the forensic search of Apt 5a incomplete?
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2017, 12:36:48 PM »
Was it usual or even possible in 2007 to find DNA on fabrics?
I believe so.
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Offline G-Unit

Re: Was the forensic search of Apt 5a incomplete?
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2017, 02:56:47 PM »
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Offline Carana

Re: Was the forensic search of Apt 5a incomplete?
« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2017, 03:26:48 PM »
Was it usual or even possible in 2007 to find DNA on fabrics?

I would think so, G-Unit, otherwise how did the get the DNA from saliva on M's pillow and the little boy's bed?

Are you thinking of fingerprints from fabric? I seem to remember that that was a fairly recent innovation.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Was the forensic search of Apt 5a incomplete?
« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2017, 03:39:08 PM »
I would think so, G-Unit, otherwise how did the get the DNA from saliva on M's pillow and the little boy's bed?

Are you thinking of fingerprints from fabric? I seem to remember that that was a fairly recent innovation.

They could get it from fluids; sweat, saliva, blood ans semen. It seems unlikely that an intruder spilled any of those substances on Madeleine's sheets.
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Offline Lace

Re: Was the forensic search of Apt 5a incomplete?
« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2017, 04:57:03 PM »
They could get it from fluids; sweat, saliva, blood ans semen. It seems unlikely that an intruder spilled any of those substances on Madeleine's sheets.

We shed skin cells too,  pity they didn't check for those.

Offline Carana

Re: Was the forensic search of Apt 5a incomplete?
« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2017, 05:17:22 PM »
We shed skin cells too,  pity they didn't check for those.

They could have done, in theory, but it would have been difficult to pinpoint them (they'd have been everywhere).

A black torch highlights stains, then swabs can be taken from that located area.

Offline Lace

Re: Was the forensic search of Apt 5a incomplete?
« Reply #25 on: October 28, 2017, 05:20:00 PM »
They could have done, in theory, but it would have been difficult to pinpoint them (they'd have been everywhere).

A black torch highlights stains, then swabs can be taken from that located area.

I just wish they had tested Madeleine's bed for skin cells Carana.

Offline Carana

Re: Was the forensic search of Apt 5a incomplete?
« Reply #26 on: October 28, 2017, 05:57:37 PM »
I just wish they had tested Madeleine's bed for skin cells Carana.

I wish they hadn't mislaid the hairs...

stephen25000

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Re: Was the forensic search of Apt 5a incomplete?
« Reply #27 on: October 28, 2017, 05:59:04 PM »
I suggest posters research extraction of D.N.A. from dead cells.

Offline Lace

Re: Was the forensic search of Apt 5a incomplete?
« Reply #28 on: October 28, 2017, 06:25:09 PM »
I suggest posters research extraction of D.N.A. from dead cells.

One such technology is called "Touch DNA" or "Contact Trace DNA." Touch DNA refers to the DNA that is recovered from skin (epithelial) cells that is left behind when a person touches or comes into contact with items such as clothes, a weapon, or other objects. A person sheds about 400,000 skin cells per day, but it is the lower skin cells that will provide the best DNA profile. These cells are typically recovered when force is used such as on the victim's clothes or at a crime scene after a struggle has occurred.

Offline misty

Re: Was the forensic search of Apt 5a incomplete?
« Reply #29 on: October 28, 2017, 06:42:22 PM »
One such technology is called "Touch DNA" or "Contact Trace DNA." Touch DNA refers to the DNA that is recovered from skin (epithelial) cells that is left behind when a person touches or comes into contact with items such as clothes, a weapon, or other objects. A person sheds about 400,000 skin cells per day, but it is the lower skin cells that will provide the best DNA profile. These cells are typically recovered when force is used such as on the victim's clothes or at a crime scene after a struggle has occurred.
Skin cells are dead when they reach the surface & shed.
Basically, they start as normal cells in the stratum germinativum and then start migrating toward the surface. In the process, they die and get emptied of most of their biological apparatus. Their nucleus is degraded; and the cells fill up with keratohyalin that dehydrate them and cross-link them with long chains of keratine molecules.
By the time they arrive to the stratum corneum they are mostly inert interlinked bricks of keratin.
They might still contain DNA but it is no longer complete of functional. Might still be enough for some forensic, though.
There is the risk of cross-contamination at a crime scene from the tester's gloves, in that cells deposited in one location can stick to the gloves & be transferred to another surface if the tester doesn't change gloves.

The PJ CSI team did test Madeleine's bed with a specialist light.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_FORENSIC_4_5_7.htm

"A search was also made for possible biological traces and fibres on the single bed from where the minor disappeared, using a variable-wave light source appropriate for the task, the result obtained having been negative."

IMO the most logical deposits should have been clothing fibres as a potential abductor's arm came into contact with the sheets & pillow if Madeleine was lifted from the bed