Why was Luke not seen after school?

[John]

I don't need you to talk for me John, yes indeed I am a firm believer in Luke's innocence of the crime he was incarcerated for.

I have always tried to be objective with any questions asked of me or those that are put on a public forum. I really only want the truth but until those who get in the way of that truth can explain themselves in that same objective manner then you may find me more obtrusive than I am.

So why post disingenuously and tell lies about something you know absolutely nothing about?

[John]

This would be the 6pm when many people were returning from their work or shopping trips. This would be the 6pm when Luke was hanging around the area waiting for Jodi.

This would not be the early afternoon when a boy goes home after school, a short journey and one with the likelyhood of no cars being on that road in the short time he was.



This for me again is supposition, basing the actual events in a context of perceived events is not doing anyone justice.

Do you have any idea how long it would have taken him to walk to his mothers house Gordo?  You have no real idea of the distance and time involved do you?

You are expecting us to believe that no cars passed Luke as he walked home from school, no pedestrians saw Luke, no school pals saw Luke and no school pals walked home with Luke.

Could the moon be made of cheese in your estimation?

[gordo]

No school pals saw him at all if you are to be believed though John. Tell me am I to simply just believe that no one saw him in a far longer period when he was out the house than the relative short journey to his house?

[John]

In addition, as the Mitchell home is located within a large housing site the chances of him being observed and by someone who knew him was very high yet nobody came forward.

This for me again is supposition, basing the actual events in a context of perceived events is not doing anyone justice.

So the housing site was a ghost town too....was Luke Mitchell the only living thing there that afternoon?

[gordo]

John I have only asked one question all night and that is why didn't this area that in your expert opinion and observance not produce one witness that could verify your own position about Luke coming home?

[John]

   

We have always wondered about this. Given the seriousness and enormity of the allegations against him you would have thought that someone would have seen him walk home after school that afternoon and come forward to clear him. Apparently not.
Then again, why are we not surprised when his own brother couldn't even give him an alibi?

The key word here is apparently, you cannot for sure say that no one came forward with this information as it was never asked in court.

Shane never gave Luke an alibi simply because he couldn't as he did not see Luke in the house, are you suggesting that he should have lied also to provide such a thing?

If anyone came forward the defence would have known about it.

Shane was coached by his mother who sent him back to the police to change his story.  It didn't wash.  In court he was warned of the consequences for him if he lied.  He then had to tell the truth and admit that he did not see Luke at home that afternoon. Apparently it was a ghost who made dinner!   ;D

[John]

John I have only asked one question all night and that is why didn't this area that in your expert opinion and observance not produce one witness that could verify your own position about Luke coming home?

You will have to rephrase that Gordon, don't understand your one question.

[gordo]

Well basically what I am asking is why can it be taken seriously that no one saw Luke leaving school and heading in a direction away from his house, why can you say with certainty that no one could have saw Luke in a longer period when he was out of the house but be so positive that no one could have seen him going home in a shorter period.

How can you justify the fact that the prosecution did not and will not agree with your assumption, how can you know that no one had came forward and provided information that would allow the prosecution to simply skip this fundamental period of time?

Sry that's more than 1 question...

[Admin]

Now Lamberton is having another go at Shanes memory. He states "Imagine folks,two days after the murder he couldn't even remember Luke making the dinner that afternoon"

Yes, imagine! 2 days after the murder? we were all shocked. We were all traumatised. Remembering whether his brother made dinner or not doesn't actually spring to mind as an important thing!

And again, their double standards......2 days after the murder AW couldn't remember what she was wearing!! You can't condem one for their memory and not the other

Yes, It was to turn into a very important thing afterwards but not 2 days afterwards. It is easy for those to condem......when they haven't been in that particular situation!

http://forum.wronglyaccusedperson.org.uk/series-on-cases-from-sandra-leans-book-no-smoke/the-lm-alibi-offered-at-trial-was-it-necessary-has-it-obstructed-justice/msg10824/#msg10824


An important thing? ......Yes, the whole case basically, it's a pity he didn't even remember seeing Luke in the house either but, then again, he wouldn't have done if he wasn't there.

Even his own brother couldn't admit to having seen him, heard him or smelled the dinner he alleged to have burned in the family home that afternoon.

You couldn't make this stuff up if you tried?

[Mr Apples]

It doesn’t matter that Luke wasn’t seen after school on 30.06.03, because the landline logs on the Mitchell family house phone prove that Luke spoke to Shane at 1610 that day (Shane phoned from his mobile to say he’d be home later than normal as he was helping a friend fix his car; Shane normally was back in the house before Luke, at 1530 . . . Luke normally got home from school around 1545/1550) and Luke used the phone to call Corinne at 1625 at her work (Caravan business) to ask what he should make for dinner. Sandra Lean has confirmed this. Besides, Luke was under the impression that Jodi was still grounded, until he received a text from Jodi at 1634 (texting from her mother’s mobile phone because hers was broken) indicating that she was now allowed out. Luke and Jodi then exchanged further text messages between 1634 & 1638, and had then arranged to meet up (unfortunately, these text exchanges wee never retrieved and therefore it was never ascertained exactly where or when they’d arranged to meet up later that evening).

[faithlilly]

It doesn’t matter that Luke wasn’t seen after school on 30.06.03, because the landline logs on the Mitchell family house phone prove that Luke spoke to Shane at 1610 that day (Shane phoned from his mobile to say he’d be home later than normal as he was helping a friend fix his car; Shane normally was back in the house before Luke, at 1530 . . . Luke normally got home from school around 1545/1550) and Luke used the phone to call Corinne at 1625 at her work (Caravan business) to ask what he should make for dinner. Sandra Lean has confirmed this. Besides, Luke was under the impression that Jodi was still grounded, until he received a text from Jodi at 1634 (texting from her mother’s mobile phone because hers was broken) indicating that she was now allowed out. Luke and Jodi then exchanged further text messages between 1634 & 1638, and had then arranged to meet up (unfortunately, these text exchanges wee never retrieved and therefore it was never ascertained exactly where or when they’d arranged to meet up later that evening).

Interestingly Shane in his first statement didn’t remember fixing his friend’s car and had to be reminded that he had been home late because of it...much the same as his mother had to remind him about the burned pies.

One obvious question, if Corrine got home at 5.15 and it’s agreed that Shane left the house soon after, who made his dinner as he seems to have had some?

[Mr Apples]

Interestingly Shane in his first statement didn’t remember fixing his friend’s car and had to be reminded that he had been home late because of it...much the same as his mother had to remind him about the burned pies.

One obvious question, if Corrine got home at 5.15 and it’s agreed that Shane left the house soon after, who made his dinner as he seems to have had some?

According to Sandra Lean, Shane came downstairs to collect his dinner just after 1715, after being logged on to car websites (websites that generated or caused pop-ups for porn sites to appear on his monitor for only a few seconds . . . as per Sandra Lean’s book & a Mr Cravens who analysed Shane’s computer hard drive for police, Shane hadn’t accessed porn sites because they were popups that the car websites generated). It was Luke who made the dinner for everyone. Shane took his upstairs to his room, Corinne had hers out in the back garden (except she had prawns and wanted to go outside as she’d been couped up all day in her work office and wanted to enjoy the June sun) and Luke ate his in the living room, in front of the tv. Shane went out to meet friends just after 1730 and Luke went out a few minutes later to go and meet Jodi (all as per Sandra’s book).

[Parky41]

I think it's all very well, one thing, that LM, a 14yr old may have, in the heat of the moment become so enraged he killed his girlfriend. Being able to plan the perfect cover up in the aftermath is something entirely different. "The police didn't bank on Luke being Luke though" - there is however no way that LM could have banked on the police being anything. Of the finer details in everything that would have been sought to confirm all that was said.

What did he need - An alibi, evident at this point that only his mother would perhaps suffice. No evident collaboration from SM. From the moment it was evident however that his mother would not suffice, SM's story changed.

Does it make sense, even after the change - simply no. That he had come downstairs, Luke was mashing tatties, had a conversation around the dinner, went back upstairs, then came down and collected his dinner, took it upstairs, ate it and left shortly after 5.30pm - CM did not arrive home until 5.15pm at the earliest, the dinner was not ready. Where is the time?

We know by Luke's account he could not have left any later really that 5.30pm. He claimed to have made the call to the Jones landline, whilst sitting on the wall at the entrance of the estate. This call was at 5.32pm.

Both brothers, irrespective of change in statements made it clear that neither saw the other around these times of leaving.

How could this possibly be? - SM could not have left earlier than LM and SM could not have failed to see Luke walking or sitting on the wall. There is only one entrance to Newbattle Abbey crescent. It is a straight road to the entrance from the house in which they stayed.

[Parky41]

Furthermore - this "warm sunny day" There is absolutely nothing to back this up, quite the opposite. People were in heavier outer clothing. The day was overcast, the temperature low for the height of summer. "typical Scottish weather" Parka type jackets, thick blouson jackets, thick hoodies. - "warm and sunny?"

CM claimed to be enjoying the summer sun, eating her dinner outside after being "cooped up all day" Perhaps the weather was different in the back garden of the Mitchell home that evening?

Ms Lean has stated often enough of memory. In respect of SM having none. Could anyone remember what they did, or eaten the week before? This was not the week before this was within 36hrs of this girls murder. Ms Lean has an amazing memory though (when suits it would seem)

SL:

"The day wasn't "cooler, wet and dreich" - it was a day of changeable weather, warm and sunny in the early evening with a couple of sudden downpours - I was sitting outside on the deck reading a book after dinner when, all of a sudden, it started to rain. No miracles required, just typical Scottish weather."

Not overcast and cloudy then, that Ms Lean did not see the approaching clouds? Not quite "all of a sudden" Perhaps the weather In Ms Leans garden was similar to Ms Mitchell. Why were people dressed in heavier, outer clothing?

The finer details of those statements - that did not hold up to scrutiny. Which literally, did not stand up to the 'test of time'

There simply was not enough time from 5.15pm until 5.30pm for the stories given around this dinner.

[faithlilly]

According to Sandra Lean, Shane came downstairs to collect his dinner just after 1715, after being logged on to car websites (websites that generated or caused pop-ups for porn sites to appear on his monitor for only a few seconds . . . as per Sandra Lean’s book & a Mr Cravens who analysed Shane’s computer hard drive for police, Shane hadn’t accessed porn sites because they were popups that the car websites generated). It was Luke who made the dinner for everyone. Shane took his upstairs to his room, Corinne had hers out in the back garden (except she had prawns and wanted to go outside as she’d been couped up all day in her work office and wanted to enjoy the June sun) and Luke ate his in the living room, in front of the tv. Shane went out to meet friends just after 1730 and Luke went out a few minutes later to go and meet Jodi (all as per Sandra’s book).

So no porn sites, therefore no masturbation and no justification for knowing that there was no one in the house.

Shane didn’t make the dinner and there was no time for Corrine to make the dinner if Shane left the house at 5.30. So who made the dinner?