Author Topic: Luke Mitchell will not have to admit being a killer to get parole.  (Read 3572 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Chris_Halkides

Re: Luke Mitchell will not have to admit being a killer to get parole.
« Reply #45 on: October 14, 2023, 12:41:37 PM »
Instead, we are left with a psychopath and narcissist harping on about the incompetence the Criminal Justice System has thus far displayed in dealing with the management of his possible parole progression. Not all in vain, however, as there are the usual mouthbreathers who are convinced he's innocent by virtue of his eloquence and his ability to comport himself well in an interview setting.
Here is an alternative to the mouthbreather hypothesis: the pro-guilt posters avoid the cognitive dissonance that comes from contemplating that someone might have been wrongfully by loudly proclaiming that LM is a psychopath and/or his supporters are gullible.  Former Texas Governor Rick Perry's comments on the Todd Willingham case comes to mind as an example of this kind of cognitive dissonance.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2023, 02:19:24 PM by Chris_Halkides »

Offline Chris_Halkides

Re: Luke Mitchell will not have to admit being a killer to get parole.
« Reply #46 on: October 14, 2023, 02:05:05 PM »
Why not try addressing the existing questions about LM? I have no idea who these people are as I am only interested in this case as it is local to me. Nothing anyone has posted on here has given me any cause for concern the initial verdict and subsequent appeals were not correct. In fact, I would say SL's campaign has done more harm than good for Mitchell (which is probably what she wants as it keeps her in the spotlight, albeit a small spotlight).
Than I will answer my own question.  Juries convicted Mr. Rosario, Mr. Braseel, and many others because they believed eyewitness testimony (sometimes very flawed eyewitness testimony) over alibi evidence, even when there are multiple alibi witnesses.  Juries may believe that the defendant's friends or family would like for him or her.  Why they also sometimes ignore hard alibi evidence is not so easy to explain.  More generally the reason to look into known wrongful convictions is to compare them with possible wrongful convictions, in order to look for similarities or differences.  If the Russ Faria case is too far away, then the Andrew Malkinson case (which is much closer) has many salient features.

One reason I am in no hurry to answer questions today is that they are rhetorical only.  "Why won't SM defend his brother" is not a real question; if SM did so, the people asking the question would say that he was lying.  This inference is obvious, given that CM maintains LM's alibi.  First there was "Why won't Luke say that he is innocent?"  Now the goalposts shifted to "Why won't Luke address the circumstantial evidence?"  A better question is, "If there really were a parka purchased before the murder, why can't the police produce a receipt?"
« Last Edit: October 14, 2023, 02:20:43 PM by Chris_Halkides »

Offline KenMair

Re: Luke Mitchell will not have to admit being a killer to get parole.
« Reply #47 on: October 14, 2023, 05:01:56 PM »
Well Chris, I salute your indefatigability, however questions regarding parka receipts really have no merit as LM was already found guilty already. Whether there was a receipt for the parka is one of many examples brought out recently to cast doubt on the conviction when there was overwhelming circumstantial evidence - take one away and the other 19 or so points still stand.

If I was an innocent in prison I would be making as much noise as possible about it which is why LM's approach doesn't match up with his claims of innocence or lack of support from anyone who knows him. Or to put it another way - what would you do if you were wrongly imprisoned? And would your family and friends rally round to support your claims of innocence or ignore you?

Offline Mr Apples

Re: Luke Mitchell will not have to admit being a killer to get parole.
« Reply #48 on: October 15, 2023, 09:48:28 AM »
Here is an alternative to the mouthbreather hypothesis: the pro-guilt posters avoid the cognitive dissonance that comes from contemplating that someone might have been wrongfully by loudly proclaiming that LM is a psychopath and/or his supporters are gullible.  Former Texas Governor Rick Perry's comments on the Todd Willingham case comes to mind as an example of this kind of cognitive dissonance.

Nope. I have looked into this case (imo) thoroughly, considered the evidence carefully and objectively, applied some common sense, utilised the principles of Occam's razor, and have arrived at the conclusion that Luke Mitchell is guilty beyond reasonable doubt. All that said, I still ask questions where I think there is doubt and ambiguity -- from both a defence and prosecution perspective -- and there will always be doubt to some extent given the complexity of the case and the purely circumstantial nature of it. I was being somewhat facetious with my mouthbreather comment, although many of LM's supporters do seem like a homogeneous bunch of anti-authoritarian, in-the-box thinkers incapable of acquanting themselves with all the facts of this case and engaging in any kind of rational, balanced debate. Most of them seem to have entrenched views based on SL's slick, glib MOJ narrative, unaware that the campaign itself is erroneously grounded. They would be only too happy to voraciously wolf down any old scraps of nonsense she feeds them. SL is very much the pied piper in all of this. Just like with the machinations of LM himself, folk are duped by his silver tongue; they think because he sounds intelligent, polite and well-mannered that he must be innocent. Or that because he refuses to say he's guilty and instead stays behind bars, he must be innocent. It's as simple as this, he HAS to maintain his innocence for his own survival, otherwise his life would not be worth living; hoi polloi would turn against him, the vigilantes would be baying for his blood, and, if he ever does get released, he'd need a completely new identity and would likely have to emigrate somewhere. The fact his case is wholly circumstantial works in his favour as it gives him scope to manouvre and manipulate, and, thankfully for him, the nest of vipers that is SL's MOJ campaign is not impervious to his silver tongue.

And Chris, as I said previously, there really is no point in referring to other cases, because, strictly speaking, no two cases are ever the same. Not ever. It all sounds and looks good, impressive & professional on paper, as a counter-argument, but it is glib, when all is said and done.

Offline Mr Apples

Re: Luke Mitchell will not have to admit being a killer to get parole.
« Reply #49 on: October 15, 2023, 10:02:25 AM »
Btw, can anyone tell me who is behind the "What They Found" podcasts? Who is the narrator? I'm simply curious, that's all.

Offline faithlilly

Re: Luke Mitchell will not have to admit being a killer to get parole.
« Reply #50 on: October 15, 2023, 03:49:50 PM »
Nope. I have looked into this case (imo) thoroughly, considered the evidence carefully and objectively, applied some common sense, utilised the principles of Occam's razor, and have arrived at the conclusion that Luke Mitchell is guilty beyond reasonable doubt. All that said, I still ask questions where I think there is doubt and ambiguity -- from both a defence and prosecution perspective -- and there will always be doubt to some extent given the complexity of the case and the purely circumstantial nature of it. I was being somewhat facetious with my mouthbreather comment, although many of LM's supporters do seem like a homogeneous bunch of anti-authoritarian, in-the-box thinkers incapable of acquanting themselves with all the facts of this case and engaging in any kind of rational, balanced debate. Most of them seem to have entrenched views based on SL's slick, glib MOJ narrative, unaware that the campaign itself is erroneously grounded. They would be only too happy to voraciously wolf down any old scraps of nonsense she feeds them. SL is very much the pied piper in all of this. Just like with the machinations of LM himself, folk are duped by his silver tongue; they think because he sounds intelligent, polite and well-mannered that he must be innocent. Or that because he refuses to say he's guilty and instead stays behind bars, he must be innocent. It's as simple as this, he HAS to maintain his innocence for his own survival, otherwise his life would not be worth living; hoi polloi would turn against him, the vigilantes would be baying for his blood, and, if he ever does get released, he'd need a completely new identity and would likely have to emigrate somewhere. The fact his case is wholly circumstantial works in his favour as it gives him scope to manouvre and manipulate, and, thankfully for him, the nest of vipers that is SL's MOJ campaign is not impervious to his silver tongue.

And Chris, as I said previously, there really is no point in referring to other cases, because, strictly speaking, no two cases are ever the same. Not ever. It all sounds and looks good, impressive & professional on paper, as a counter-argument, but it is glib, when all is said and done.

‘They would be only too happy to voraciously wolf down any old scraps of nonsense she feeds them.’

Says the individual you believes that a YouTube commentator’s sister had a photograph of Luke in a parka jacket and was questioned about it in court despite not one scintilla of evidence that it ever happened. The individual who also refused to post one scintilla of proof that an alleged dialogue between them and the commentator ever took place.

Irony aside it really would be funny if it wasn’t so desperate.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Chris_Halkides

Re: Luke Mitchell will not have to admit being a killer to get parole.
« Reply #51 on: October 15, 2023, 06:08:35 PM »
Well Chris, I salute your indefatigability, however questions regarding parka receipts really have no merit as LM was already found guilty already. Whether there was a receipt for the parka is one of many examples brought out recently to cast doubt on the conviction when there was overwhelming circumstantial evidence - take one away and the other 19 or so points still stand.

If I was an innocent in prison I would be making as much noise as possible about it which is why LM's approach doesn't match up with his claims of innocence or lack of support from anyone who knows him. Or to put it another way - what would you do if you were wrongly imprisoned? And would your family and friends rally round to support your claims of innocence or ignore you?
If Luke is silent, the pro-guilt posters (PGP), say that that is not what they would do if they were wrongfully convicted.  If he says something, he gets criticized for being disrespectful to the Jones family.  If his supporters don't address the circumstantial evidence, the PGP claim it is a strong case.  If they do, the PGP say that the jury made its call; therefore, it is pointless to have a conversation.  One problem with the PGP position is that (as Faith noted) every wrongful conviction begins with the jury's returning a guilty verdict.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2023, 06:29:17 PM by Chris_Halkides »

Offline Chris_Halkides

Re: Luke Mitchell will not have to admit being a killer to get parole.
« Reply #52 on: October 15, 2023, 06:26:57 PM »
Nope. I have looked into this case (imo) thoroughly, considered the evidence carefully and objectively, applied some common sense, utilised the principles of Occam's razor, and have arrived at the conclusion that Luke Mitchell is guilty beyond reasonable doubt. All that said, I still ask questions where I think there is doubt and ambiguity -- from both a defence and prosecution perspective -- and there will always be doubt to some extent given the complexity of the case and the purely circumstantial nature of it. I was being somewhat facetious with my mouthbreather comment, although many of LM's supporters do seem like a homogeneous bunch of anti-authoritarian, in-the-box thinkers incapable of acquanting themselves with all the facts of this case and engaging in any kind of rational, balanced debate. Most of them seem to have entrenched views based on SL's slick, glib MOJ narrative, unaware that the campaign itself is erroneously grounded. They would be only too happy to voraciously wolf down any old scraps of nonsense she feeds them. SL is very much the pied piper in all of this. Just like with the machinations of LM himself, folk are duped by his silver tongue; they think because he sounds intelligent, polite and well-mannered that he must be innocent. Or that because he refuses to say he's guilty and instead stays behind bars, he must be innocent. It's as simple as this, he HAS to maintain his innocence for his own survival, otherwise his life would not be worth living; hoi polloi would turn against him, the vigilantes would be baying for his blood, and, if he ever does get released, he'd need a completely new identity and would likely have to emigrate somewhere. The fact his case is wholly circumstantial works in his favour as it gives him scope to manouvre and manipulate, and, thankfully for him, the nest of vipers that is SL's MOJ campaign is not impervious to his silver tongue.

And Chris, as I said previously, there really is no point in referring to other cases, because, strictly speaking, no two cases are ever the same. Not ever. It all sounds and looks good, impressive & professional on paper, as a counter-argument, but it is glib, when all is said and done.
One reason to be thankful for DNA profiling is that it has led to the release of many wrongfully imprisoned people.  An important ancillary benefit is that it allowed scholars to ask why these wrongful convictions happened in the first place, which in turn points the way toward reforms.  To suggest that one ignore other cases when considering this one is so completely...ill-considered...that the only explanation I can find for it is extreme authoritarianism, which is the antithesis of rational skepticism.  That is why I will continue to bring up other cases, and you are free to read those comments or not.

However even taken in isolation, this case presents problems.  There is no murder weapon; a motive is pure conjecture; the timeline is so tight as to verge on impossibility; and so forth.  Testimony purporting to identify LM is internally inconsistent.  To sum up, even if one were to restrict oneself only to the facts of this case, one would still conclude that it was a hot, stinking mess.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2023, 06:30:01 PM by Chris_Halkides »

Offline Mr Apples

Re: Luke Mitchell will not have to admit being a killer to get parole.
« Reply #53 on: October 16, 2023, 12:52:06 AM »
‘They would be only too happy to voraciously wolf down any old scraps of nonsense she feeds them.’

Says the individual you believes that a YouTube commentator’s sister had a photograph of Luke in a parka jacket and was questioned about it in court despite not one scintilla of evidence that it ever happened. The individual who also refused to post one scintilla of proof that an alleged dialogue between them and the commentator ever took place.

Irony aside it really would be funny if it wasn’t so desperate.

So, you think I made the communication between myself and the lady in question up? As for the photo itself, there's no smoke without fire, and even if the photo wasn't shown in court (I myself believe the photo was shown in court), I believe it does exist. It's been mentioned on this forum before, before I mentioned it (by Parky41), and it would be good to know his source. I noticed, from a screenshot on someone's blog, that SL was asked about this concert and this parka, but she didn't answer (funny that, eh?). And all these other parts of incriminating circumstantial evidence gradually filtering through -- such as the Flip clothing manager's testimony regarding that replacement olive green German army parka bought from his store on 08.07.03 -- in addition to what can be sourced in the public domain, only reinforces my belief that LM is well and truly guilty. All of this only goes to show how important attending, or not attending, that long complex 42-day trial was; neither you or I, or SL herself, sat through the full 42 days of that momentous, notorious trial, and therein lies the problem. However, thankfully, owed in great measure to social media, many pieces of circumstantial evidence have filtered through from people who were at the trial, including jury members (who no doubt divulged information in private to people they know, and those people then tell other people they know, and so on). I can think of 2 other pieces of info that aren't in the public domain and only came to light via social media: the boys in the abbey who testified that LM was a lot cleaner looking that night, and the young guy from Eskbank Trading who knew LM and said under oath that he'd seen LM in that shop wearing the olive green army parka BEFORE the murder, and was very clear that his sighting was before 30.06.03, and that he remembered it because of the German army badges on the sleeves and the fact his mother owned the exact same jacket at the time. And this leads me on to another point: SL alludes to this boy's sighting in IB, but she frames it in such a way that would lead the reader to infer that it was insignificant and that the boy was mistaken; for example, she says LM hadn't seen the boy in 3 years, implied that he was mistaken about the sighting because he said "because of the murder and everything", and, significantly, she omits the crucial parts about the german badges on the sleeves and the fact the young guy's mother owned the exact same jacket. It's very telling. How can we fully trust someone who wasn't at the trial, who doesn't have access to everything that went into the very lengthy investigation, and who redacts certain info she has access to or omits certain info when it suits? I have nothing against SL, but she does have books to sell.

Offline Chris_Halkides

Re: Luke Mitchell will not have to admit being a killer to get parole.
« Reply #54 on: October 18, 2023, 01:47:01 AM »
The MSM have recently been spinning the lie that Luke Mitchell may have to continue to serve an open-ended sentence unless he admits his guilt.

I can categorically tell you now that this is not the case. The Parole Board are primarily interested in the prisoners behaviour while in prison and whether he poses a threat to the wider public before deciding whether to grant early release.

It is also untrue the first applications for parole are automatically knocked back.
John,

What I have read about the Malkinson case indicates that he spent much longer in prison because he refused to admit guilt.  I am not an expert in either British or Scottish law; therefore, I am not in a position to say much more than that.  Maybe you can say a bit more.