The Defence Will State Their Case

[mrswah]

Thanks for clearing that up mrswah.

I honestly had that filed under `stupid' media stories.

Isn't there a short cut of sorts that comes out at where Joanna's path/gate would have been?

I don't want to have to go a take a look myself!

I believe there were reports at the time referring to footprints in the snow suggesting that two people had walked diagonally across the front lawn of no 44. Or, someone saw Vincent and Tanja doing so, as a short cut from their flat at the back of the building to the front entrance. I believe that's probably what you are referring to .

[mrswah]

I do wonder whether the police ever investigated the people supposedly seen by CJ.

[Leonora]

I believe there were reports at the time referring to footprints in the snow suggesting that two people had walked diagonally across the front lawn of no 44. Or, someone saw Vincent and Tanja doing so, as a short cut from their flat at the back of the building to the front entrance. I believe that's probably what you are referring to .

After the trial, Mr & Mrs Yeates told a story about having gone out to bang on car boots. They claimed to have encountered a reticent Vincent together with a friendly helpful Tanja in the snow in the front garden. This completely contradicted the assertion they made at the time of Vincent's arrest that they had never met the people in the adjacent flat. This alleged meeting would have caused footprints in the snow if it had taken place.

[Leonora]

I do wonder whether the police ever investigated the people supposedly seen by CJ.

Well stop wondering. Did you ever hear D.Sup. Mark Saunders, DC Gareth Bevan or CS Jon Straford appeal publicly for the persons the landlord told the police he had seen on her front path the day after Joanna was reported missing to come forward? - No you did not. What does that tell you? - That the police knew who the persons were, and didn't want their identities to be made public. Did their failure to appeal publicly shock Christopher Jefferies? - Not if he too knew who they were. Only the publication of the full text of his witness statement will reveal what he actually told the police. We can be SURE it was different from what he and they have told us, as it has remained secret through all the TV programmes made about him. We can be almost sure that the reason they arrested him and then kept him on bail underground for so long is that he was a witness whom they wanted silencing. If he didn't have important friends, they would just have kept him in prison for 5 months on a charge of wasting police time. As he had some very influential friends and ex-pupils, they were obliged to erect a tarpaulin so that he could return to his flat without being seen by prying eyes.

[AerialHunter]

Well stop wondering. Did you ever hear D.Sup. Mark Saunders, DC Gareth Bevan or CS Jon Straford appeal publicly for the persons the landlord told the police he had seen on her front path the day after Joanna was reported missing to come forward? - No you did not. What does that tell you? - That the police knew who the persons were, and didn't want their identities to be made public. Did their failure to appeal publicly shock Christopher Jefferies? - Not if he too knew who they were. Only the publication of the full text of his witness statement will reveal what he actually told the police. We can be SURE it was different from what he and they have told us, as it has remained secret through all the TV programmes made about him. We can be almost sure that the reason they arrested him and then kept him on bail underground for so long is that he was a witness whom they wanted silencing. If he didn't have important friends, they would just have kept him in prison for 5 months on a charge of wasting police time. As he had some very influential friends and ex-pupils, they were obliged to erect a tarpaulin so that he could return to his flat without being seen by prying eyes.

Actually I haven't even considered this. It's a very valid point indeed. But, if the police knew who these people were, how would CJ necessarily know as well?  It starts to become less likely that two people, who's identities needed to be kept covered up, were known to CJ, or could be identified by him.

[mrswah]

Actually I haven't even considered this. It's a very valid point indeed. But, if the police knew who these people were, how would CJ necessarily know as well?  It starts to become less likely that two people, who's identities needed to be kept covered up, were known to CJ, or could be identified by him.

How could the police know who the people were, unless CJ knew, and  had told them? 

Or, am I just being dim???

[mrswah]

Please don't anyone come back with `important people' .... we don't have any in Bristol!!

Ha ha.  Depends on what one means by "important people".

I reckon Bristol is a big enough place to have some!!!

[Leonora]

Actually I haven't even considered this. It's a very valid point indeed. But, if the police knew who these people were, how would CJ necessarily know as well?  It starts to become less likely that two people, who's identities needed to be kept covered up, were known to CJ, or could be identified by him.

The police knew far more about what went on that weekend than has ever beem revealed. They had Joanna's diary, computer, telephone records, a statement from Greg about what he really thought she was doing that weekend, and with whom, and ditto Rebecca Scott. They had forensics from the flat. They were not just dependant on Christopher Jefferies. He may or may not have identified those persons he saw, especially if they were Joanna herself, Greg and Vincent - or someone else whom he knew was accustomed to visit Flat 1. But even if CJ didn't identify any of them, the police may well already have known who they were, and may even have talked to them, so they didn't need to make a public appeal.

However, they couldn't have Chris Jefferies spilling the beans on their cover-up. And that is what I am sure he would have done, if he had not been frightened first and then arrested and then driven underground. Without the text of his 2nd statement, it has to be no more than a guess on my part, but I suggest there was more to what he saw than just 2 or 3 persons on her front path. I suggest also he saw signs of activity in Flat 1 at a time when the police want us to believe it was deserted.

[AerialHunter]

Something has been bugging me since I started on this thread, I couldn't quite figure it out, it was the "something ain't quite right" thing in the background. Whilst out with friends last night, we'd arrived first so watched everyone else arrive. The first thing all the women did was take the mobile phones out and check them and put them where they could see them. Why was Yeates's phone still parked in her coat pocket when she was at home alone looking for contact with friends. At the very least it would have been within earshot if not next to where she was.

This goes along with my suspect returning to places and planting evidence to help his very best friends, the police. Who was he trying to set up? Reardon? Seems like the most likely candidate. If Yeates had been hit whilst walking home then he had everything he needed to access the flat, keys, and opportunity. Don't forget the police always said he stalked his victims for as long as took before he struck.

New line of thought. We are looking at it.

[[...]]

Something has been bugging me since I started on this thread, I couldn't quite figure it out, it was the "something ain't quite right" thing in the background. Whilst out with friends last night, we'd arrived first so watched everyone else arrive. The first thing all the women did was take the mobile phones out and check them and put them where they could see them. Why was Yeates's phone still parked in her coat pocket when she was at home alone looking for contact with friends. At the very least it would have been within earshot if not next to where she was.

This goes along with my suspect returning to places and planting evidence to help his very best friends, the police. Who was he trying to set up? Reardon? Seems like the most likely candidate. If Yeates had been hit whilst walking home then he had everything he needed to access the flat, keys, and opportunity. Don't forget the police always said he stalked his victims for as long as took before he struck.

New line of thought. We are looking at it.

I believe Joanna Yeates came into contact with someone and couldn't have reached her flat....  Both CrimeWatch and Colin Port both say that the last recorded image of Joanna Yeates was on 'The Hophouse" Pub CCTV... That very grainy black and white CCTV footage.... The footage that they not only downloaded the images from but removed entirely the whole system from "The Hophouse Pub"....  Thats something that always puzzled me....

They actually went back several times trying to gain this system from the landlord.....

Why take the entire system from The Hophouse Pub, if the only image of Joanna yeates was her walking past on the main road???

Therefore she cannot have made it home to Canygne Road as DS Mark Saunders had viewed the Private CCTV from the residents at Canygne Road.... and if Joanna Yeates had appeared upon this footage... It should have been divulged ,especially at the Leveson....

So... who returned her items.... ???


Edit....

Mobile Phones.... Her mobile phone should have been on the table in the pub....

But where was her coat and where was her bag....??? We see her leaving with these items but they are nowhere to be seen at the table, so who gives her the plastic bag... and where is her handbag?? The one that goes across her body... So many people are sat at that table there doesn't appear to be enough room for all her stuff???

So where did she hang her coat????   Her Green Fleece and her bags???  Most women take their handbags to the toilet.... 

When she comes back from the bathroom, nobody moves anything that may be on the bench that they are sat on?? So where are all of her possessions ???? In fact nobody at that table has a winter coat with them....

I don't know the pub... so does someone know if people hang their coats up??

Another possibility... is the footage from more than one occasion???

[mrswah]

I don't believe Joanna got home either-----but where does Father George Henwood fit in?  I was always under the impression that she was very close to home when she met him, much closer to home than the Hophouse pub---which is , I think , a good 7-10 minutes walk from her flat.

We don't know that the person Fr Henwood saw was, in fact, Joanna, of course. He assumed it was, but he did not know her.

Interesting re the mobile phone. IMO, Joanna would have taken her phone out of her coat pocket, as she was awaiting replies to her texts---or, at least, one reply. Why text people to see if they are free, and then not bother looking for the reply?

It seems, to me, unlikely that Joanna would have been killed within minutes of arriving home---unless someone was already in her flat. There was, apparently, no sign of a break in, so who had keys, apart from Greg and CJ?  Really doesn't seem very likely.

IF someone was being "set up", that person could have been Greg, but it could equally have been anyone from the house----IMO, of course.

[[...]]

I don't believe Joanna got home either-----but where does Father George Henwood fit in?  I was always under the impression that she was very close to home when she met him, much closer to home than the Hophouse pub---which is , I think , a good 7-10 minutes walk from her flat.

We don't know that the person Fr Henwood saw was, in fact, Joanna, of course. He assumed it was, but he did not know her.

Interesting re the mobile phone. IMO, Joanna would have taken her phone out of her coat pocket, as she was awaiting replies to her texts---or, at least, one reply. Why text people to see if they are free, and then not bother looking for the reply?

It seems, to me, unlikely that Joanna would have been killed within minutes of arriving home---unless someone was already in her flat. There was, apparently, no sign of a break in, so who had keys, apart from Greg and CJ?  Really doesn't seem very likely.

IF someone was being "set up", that person could have been Greg, but it could equally have been anyone from the house----IMO, of course.

I agree mrswah and AH...... Her phone should of been out on the side.. table where ever visible for her to see if she would get a reply to her requests...

So who put her phone in her pocket... ??  And which pocket was it in??

[mrswah]

Coat pocket, I believe.

[[...]]

Coat pocket, I believe.

I meant left or right......

[AerialHunter]

I think we need to go to the Ram and have a look around that table to see how much room there is to put stuff and check coathooks etc.. I think I ought to volunteer..