Author Topic: THE ALIBI.  (Read 29248 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline mrswah

  • Senior Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2169
  • Total likes: 796
  • Thinking outside the box, as usual-------
Re: THE ALIBI.
« Reply #210 on: August 11, 2021, 10:00:46 PM »
https://www.scotsman.com/news/lukes-brother-admits-mum-aided-evidence-2510985

Is the inference from this article, that when Shane stated he was ‘affected’ by what his mother had told him and was ‘shaken’ when giving his amended statement to the police, that he was feeling alarmed and uneasy because he knew, deep down, it was a lie? Maybe at that point (between the 4th-6th July ‘03) SM wasn’t fully aware yet that Luke was involved or fully responsible for Jodi’s murder? Perhaps at that point Luke had only confided in Corinne what he had done? She hadn’t told Shane the full details yet? This being kept in the dark and unaware led to Shane’s confusion & uneasiness? Or, inversely, perhaps SM was using the investigation & circumstances as a device to be evasive and ambiguous in his statements (i.e., tell lies by omitting info)? There’s no doubt it would have been a stressful and traumatic experience for all 3 of them, but maybe Shane used it to be evasive so as not to drop anyone in it? After all, there were other indicators in the article that Shane was being a bit evasive — notice that when asked if he had discussed with anyone what he should say in his statement,  he said “in a way”; and when asked if he would have been able to give this information without his mother, he said “not really”. He avoids being unequivocal, much like he did by saying he “couldn’t remember” if Luke was in the house and that he “he might have been there” (he, imo, couldn’t bring himself to categorically say his brother was or wasn’t there, so played it safe; he knew he hadn’t seen his brother, but didn’t want to drop his family in it, so played it safe). I would also like clarification on the landline calls between 1605 & 1625. I’ve never read anything that categorically states that it was Luke who was on both those landline calls and what the exact contents of the phone discussions were. The call from Shane to Luke at 1605 is still shrouded in mystery, and none of them have ever confirmed they spoke to each other on that call. It’s just been assumed they spoke to one another.

The alibi in this case, above all else, makes me feel the most
uneasy. Imo, Luke wasn’t there and was very likely en route to meet Jodi between 1634-1640, after the text exchanges indicating Jodi was no longer grounded (could easily have been in easthouses by 1654 if he left between those times). It’s also very telling that Shane gave no mention of Luke in the house in his very first statement to police (on 03.07.03). He said he couldn’t remember.

While I’ve no doubt that Shane was aggressively interrogated on the 14.04.03 and the police employed tactics to break him, including charging him with perverting the course of Justice, I don’t believe that he couldn’t remember. If you had definitely seen your brother, you would just simply say you did, regardless of the consequences of saying so, especially as it was the one plank of the defence’s case that could’ve seen Luke being free today. The Mitchell household was only a 2-storey detached property — not some mansion. It’s difficult to imagine them not seeing one another that day if they had been in the house together for more than 45 mins and one was allegedly making dinner and playing music whilst doing so. The fact that Shane initially said he couldn’t remember if he had seen Luke (on 03.07.03), then changed it after his mum approached him to remember him about Luke being there (on the 04.07.03), to then renege on that amended statement and revert back to not remembering if he had seen Luke (on 14.04.04), is a concern to me and makes me feel uneasy.

Btw, who was the person on here or on another site to claim they knew SM and that SM had told them, and many others, that he thought Luke was guilty? This person also said they’d be willing to give out Shane’s phone number so that people could phone him personally. It was hard to tell if they were trolling. There was also another post from someone who said that LM’s uncle (his dad’s brother, if memory serves) thinks Luke did it, though it has been suggested that the uncle in question is not mentally stable.


Apparently, Shane also forgot that he had stopped off at a friend's house after work, to help him with his car, and so said he had arrived home earlier than he had (said it in a statement, not in court). I wonder how good Shane's memory was in general?

Do you really think Luke killed Jodi, and then went home and told his mother he had done it?

Offline rulesapply

Re: THE ALIBI.
« Reply #211 on: August 11, 2021, 10:08:50 PM »

Apparently, Shane also forgot that he had stopped off at a friend's house after work, to help him with his car, and so said he had arrived home earlier than he had (said it in a statement, not in court). I wonder how good Shane's memory was in general?

Do you really think Luke killed Jodi, and then went home and told his mother he had done it?

I don't believe Shane had a bad memory, I believe Shane was at home on 30th June when he initially said he was. I don't believe Luke Mitchell was at home. I believe the landline calls were Shane. I don't believe Shane and Luke saw each other at all. I don't think Luke Mitchell was at home. That's why I think Shane Mitchell's statements were all over the place despite what Sandra Lean says. Just my opinion.

Offline Mr Apples

Re: THE ALIBI.
« Reply #212 on: August 11, 2021, 10:31:09 PM »

Apparently, Shane also forgot that he had stopped off at a friend's house after work, to help him with his car, and so said he had arrived home earlier than he had (said it in a statement, not in court). I wonder how good Shane's memory was in general?

Do you really think Luke killed Jodi, and then went home and told his mother he had done it?

Yes, he did forget that. Well, supposedly. Even if he had forgotten about this, I still don’t think he would’ve forgotten he had seen his brother, or indeed heard him in the house. Maybe he didn’t forget repairing his friend’s car, that it was a ruse, and the beginning of Shane playing safe so as not to arouse suspicion. Not remembering is the easiest answer if you don’t want to get caught out, imo. That’s why I’d like more clarification on the 1605 phone call to the Mitchell landline and the contents of it. Did either Luke or Shane say in court that they had spoken to one another at that time on the family landline? And what exactly was discussed?

Yes, I believe he told his mother immediately, either via mobile phone calls or texts and they both wiped their phones’ histories immediately afterwards. Or, failing that, I think he was at home between 1830 - 1920 giving her the lowe-down of what happened and he got washed and changed to meet up with David High and co, while Corinne began burning his jacket, clothes and shoes.

Offline Mr Apples

Re: THE ALIBI.
« Reply #213 on: August 11, 2021, 10:49:01 PM »
I don't believe Shane had a bad memory, I believe Shane was at home on 30th June when he initially said he was. I don't believe Luke Mitchell was at home. I believe the landline calls were Shane. I don't believe Shane and Luke saw each other at all. I don't think Luke Mitchell was at home. That's why I think Shane Mitchell's statements were all over the place despite what Sandra Lean says. Just my opinion.

Which time did he (sm) initially say he was home at? Do you think Luke was at home at all on 30.06.03 before 2100? Do you think he went home straight after school that day?

I agree that they didn’t see each other between 1530 and 1730 and that’s why sm’s statements were all over the place.

Offline faithlilly

Re: THE ALIBI.
« Reply #214 on: August 12, 2021, 01:07:59 AM »
Yes, he did forget that. Well, supposedly. Even if he had forgotten about this, I still don’t think he would’ve forgotten he had seen his brother, or indeed heard him in the house. Maybe he didn’t forget repairing his friend’s car, that it was a ruse, and the beginning of Shane playing safe so as not to arouse suspicion. Not remembering is the easiest answer if you don’t want to get caught out, imo. That’s why I’d like more clarification on the 1605 phone call to the Mitchell landline and the contents of it. Did either Luke or Shane say in court that they had spoken to one another at that time on the family landline? And what exactly was discussed?

Yes, I believe he told his mother immediately, either via mobile phone calls or texts and they both wiped their phones’ histories immediately afterwards. Or, failing that, I think he was at home between 1830 - 1920 giving her the lowe-down of what happened and he got washed and changed to meet up with David High and co, while Corinne began burning his jacket, clothes and shoes.

Multiple witnesses saw Luke on the Newbattle Road between 17.50-18.15.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Mr Apples

Re: THE ALIBI.
« Reply #215 on: August 12, 2021, 02:02:12 AM »
Multiple witnesses saw Luke on the Newbattle Road between 17.50-18.15.

This is true. But what are you implying here? What is the significance of those sightings in relation to my post? I don’t get what point you are trying to make.

Offline mrswah

  • Senior Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2169
  • Total likes: 796
  • Thinking outside the box, as usual-------
Re: THE ALIBI.
« Reply #216 on: August 12, 2021, 08:52:36 AM »
Yes, he did forget that. Well, supposedly. Even if he had forgotten about this, I still don’t think he would’ve forgotten he had seen his brother, or indeed heard him in the house. Maybe he didn’t forget repairing his friend’s car, that it was a ruse, and the beginning of Shane playing safe so as not to arouse suspicion. Not remembering is the easiest answer if you don’t want to get caught out, imo. That’s why I’d like more clarification on the 1605 phone call to the Mitchell landline and the contents of it. Did either Luke or Shane say in court that they had spoken to one another at that time on the family landline? And what exactly was discussed?

Yes, I believe he told his mother immediately, either via mobile phone calls or texts and they both wiped their phones’ histories immediately afterwards. Or, failing that, I think he was at home between 1830 - 1920 giving her the lowe-down of what happened and he got washed and changed to meet up with David High and co, while Corinne began burning his jacket, clothes and shoes.

I find it incredible that a teenage boy can murder his girlfriend in such an appalling way, go home and tell his mother, who is so unappalled  that she immediately sets to work burning his clothes, while he goes out on a social jaunt with friends.

I cannot believe it happened this way. I must concede that Luke might have murdered Jodi, but if he did, I can't see him confessing all to his mum, and then going out as if it were a normal evening. Sorry, but my common sense tells me that a teenage boy would not tell his mum, and a mum wouldn't cover it up while allowing her son to go out socializing. 

Offline faithlilly

Re: THE ALIBI.
« Reply #217 on: August 12, 2021, 09:03:59 AM »
This is true. But what are you implying here? What is the significance of those sightings in relation to my post? I don’t get what point you are trying to make.

If he got changed between 18.30-19.20 why was he not wearing the fabled parka jacket but the bomber jacket he admitted wearing when seen by those witnesses earlier?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline faithlilly

Re: THE ALIBI.
« Reply #218 on: August 12, 2021, 09:50:54 AM »
I find it incredible that a teenage boy can murder his girlfriend in such an appalling way, go home and tell his mother, who is so unappalled  that she immediately sets to work burning his clothes, while he goes out on a social jaunt with friends.

I cannot believe it happened this way. I must concede that Luke might have murdered Jodi, but if he did, I can't see him confessing all to his mum, and then going out as if it were a normal evening. Sorry, but my common sense tells me that a teenage boy would not tell his mum, and a mum wouldn't cover it up while allowing her son to go out socializing.

Of course not and there was nothing in Corrine’s behaviour later at the police station that suggested that the murder was anything but a huge shock to her.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Paranoid Android

Re: THE ALIBI.
« Reply #219 on: August 12, 2021, 09:51:02 AM »
Do you really think Luke killed Jodi, and then went home and told his mother he had done it?

While you seem to be completely ruling this out, it's not impossible - stranger things have happened.

Offline mrswah

  • Senior Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2169
  • Total likes: 796
  • Thinking outside the box, as usual-------
Re: THE ALIBI.
« Reply #220 on: August 12, 2021, 12:48:39 PM »
While you seem to be completely ruling this out, it's not impossible - stranger things have happened.

Not impossible, but, IMO, very unlikely!

Offline Paranoid Android

Re: THE ALIBI.
« Reply #221 on: August 12, 2021, 01:49:58 PM »
There is another possibility, of course, which is that LM committed the murder, but that CM knew nothing about it.

The two did seem to collude, though.

Offline Parky41

Re: THE ALIBI.
« Reply #222 on: August 12, 2021, 04:13:27 PM »
Not impossible, but, IMO, very unlikely!

Isn't it for most everyone, It Is not easy to fathom at all is it? Of anyone carrying out such a horrendous act. Good to see, you are completely leaning towards a fully grown, adult serial killer type. That in no way do you believe in the slightest, that the 16-year old youths on the bike, the 18-year old Kelly, the 19-year old brother had any part whatsoever in this horrendous murder either, do you? That the 15 -year old you speak of is no different from those others, where age, experience and cover up and all else come into play?  Unlikely, isn't it? Their parents, siblings and all else would cover up either, would they?

But the reality here is of course the false alibi. And the lies being told around this. Where it is pretty much key to understand the extent of the lies told, that gives us that clear picture, that LM was not at home. It has nothing to do with what can possibly be done in 13 mins, but everything to do with, what was in reality claimed to have happened in and around 40-45 mins. At it's very basic, If everything was in truth around Mitchell being home, then why that need to strive to make it into something else, to pull the brother into it? To extend that time out, to have him covered at home, longer? In advance, and exactly around the time needed. They were the only ones, to strive to put an alibi in place, that is what stands out. And if one is striving to give an alibi, it is because they needed one. - That is common sense and logic, is it not?

The first time SM was spoken to , was not the "first statement at the station". A brief account had already been given to the FLO, after being appointed to the Mitchell household. Within 36hrs of this girls death. A more detailed one on the Thursday, within 72hrs of this girls death, and a further brief one, still within 72hrs. When it became abundantly clear that on his arrival home, his mother had given a further account, and she put SM centre in those lies.  And we know they were lies, and not memory loss - for she had her son coming out his room, downstairs on her arrival home at five past five. She had him return to his room for around 10mins while dinner was being completed. That he collected that dinner at around 5.15, ate it and she claims he left the house. She did not see him just after five, and she neither saw nor heard him leave home. So by her own claims again, she had no way of knowing what time he left, did she? And those first accounts, all included LM leaving home around 5.45pm, to go meet with Jodi for around 6pm. Her memory loss, and regaining it, already had her memory put SM somewhere he could not have been, for she was not even home. And he could not have waited to have dinner made, to then eat it and be out - for he had to be out before 5.30pm for him still not to see his brother. - Now if you feel, due to not believing a 14-year old could carry out this type of crime, that they must be telling the truth about the alibi - then it is hardly surprising one puts complete faith in Ms Leans version on the back of the Mitchells?

Memory - every single detail of that dinner, with those clear and precise descriptions of Luke, all centred around Luke, driving that point that he was home. This is from the off. The clothing, of everything he was wearing, again driving that point home, those precise details of what he had on. Those timings, again precise, driving the point home, that she seen him just after 5pm, that he stayed home until around 5.45pm. Of putting herself in the back garden, again the detail of her work and all else. Putting her outside, when most would be in? It was overcast and wet. Low temps. It stood out like a sore thumb in comparison to these others, did it not? That precision, yet forgot she had not went directly home? That she even had an imaginary discussion with her other son at a time she could not have. - So yes it was blatant, and yes it disintegrated - he was not at home.

So, she was covering for him, at a time he obviously needed cover for. And she dragged her other son into it, to get one to lie to cover for the other also.  From the moment she decided to help LM, irrespective of what tale he told her, she set herself on a road of no return. Only CM or her son/s can answer why, to what story was told by Luke to them. People again under the impression that this maniac had arrived home, dripping blood and all else, the person who murdered Jodi Jones, those injuries, was not simply a murderer, where they? - And I do believe, whatever help he managed to get, he threw it back in her face. For the moment he crossed that threshold from fantasy to reality, something else was born. That change, and this was the person who needed to be at the centre of the action later that evening. There is no rational to that type of mind, no logic and common sense of distancing oneself completely, is there? The person who murdered Jodi Jones, was cold and they were calculated - exactly the traits LM displayed throughout. Every meet, every interview, through the trial and present day. - That complete "flat affect" monotone voice. Exactly how the operator described him, "not how one would expect someone to be, after finding a body" Exactly the voice the Jury heard that day, that chilling voice.

Is this the basis of what sucked Ms Lean in? For instantly upon that murder happening she had LM as being innocent, didn't she? That controversy, whilst her friends were saying I wonder, she was saying I don't. It was not him. Confirmed by that hand shake, he looked her in the eye, and she decided he was innocent. - And people have to believe her wonderful judgement of character, based on what exactly? - for it is certainly not evidence.

So, the question should be, should it not, why did she lie for him, and why did she involve her other son? Look at it this way. IF he had been home on her arrival, then she saw him for mere minutes. You can not make a mistake with seeing someone for mere minutes, can you? So why not simply say this? in the first instance. Tell the truth, as with Luke and wanting him over the wall for his DNA, as with his mother on Newbattle Road, "Jodi dead, breathing attack, is he under arrest" - She knew before having contact with her son that evening, that Jodi was dead. They had not spoken on the phone, he had been ignoring her.

So, not the fault of the police, is it? - They did not concoct the stories, lie to cover up, whatever they thought it was, they were covering for? Even that disgusting attempt to embroil SM into it, only sealed that fate more, they were digging the hole bigger. Adding more and more prior to the CCTV footage and the phone logs. And the arrest and the charges, and the future? Where we are asked to believe, that his grown up son, simply left this mother to it, by her blessing! - not much choice really, but it certainly tells it's own story, does it not?

Offline Parky41

Re: THE ALIBI.
« Reply #223 on: August 12, 2021, 04:16:12 PM »
Of course not and there was nothing in Corrine’s behaviour later at the police station that suggested that the murder was anything but a huge shock to her.

Really? That she already knew that Jodi was dead, that she also asked if he were under arrest. Perhaps you are correct, perhaps Luke had told her earlier in the evening that he found Jodi, after dying from a breathing attack? Or had one whilst he was with her, and he panicked - is this why the alibi was born?

Offline Rusty

Re: THE ALIBI.
« Reply #224 on: August 12, 2021, 04:25:29 PM »
Not impossible, but, IMO, very unlikely!

I genuinely cannot believe, the stuff I read that comes out of this poster. They make it sound like, children that kill other children and others is a rare occurrence. There are many in the UK alone, over the years, that have not only killed, but showed very little to no emotion in doing so. There was one in Scotland only just a few years ago, with the brutal rape and murder of a minor from a 15yo heavy cannabis abuser. Hundred's more examples in the UK, and thousands of them in the US.

Do you actually do any research before you type?