Author Topic: Disaster Trolls  (Read 1103 times)

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Offline Brietta

Disaster Trolls
« on: April 04, 2023, 10:31:56 PM »
Disaster Trolls
Radio 4
What happens when tragedy makes you a target? BBC disinformation and social media correspondent Marianna Spring investigates.

EPISODES (12 AVAILABLE)


The worst day of your life didn’t happen
What happens when tragedy makes you a target?
2 mins24 Oct 2022

1. Darkness in the Glade of Light
Daren can’t forget that night at the Manchester Arena. So who claims it never happened?
15 mins31 Oct 2022

2. Darkness in the Glade of Light
Daren can’t forget that night at the Manchester Arena. So who claims it never happened?
15 mins31 Oct 2022

3. The insider
An unexpected source provides an insight into a leading conspiracy theorist.
15 mins31 Oct 2022

4. Hall’s stall
Marianna Spring finally meets the conspiracy theorist at the heart of her investigation.
13 mins31 Oct 2022

5. Who believes this stuff?
How widespread is the belief that major terror attacks in the UK are faked?
15 mins31 Oct 2022

6. The visitor
He said he was a customer, but the visitor to Lisa’s boatyard hid his real intentions.
14 mins31 Oct 2022

7. I helped bring down Alex Jones
The Infowars employee whose testimony helped Sandy Hook parents win huge damages.
15 mins31 Oct 2022

8. I was a conspiracy theorist - get me out of here
Brent disavows the toxic conspiracy theories he helped create, but can Paul forgive him?
14 mins31 Oct 2022

9. What they don’t tell you about terror
Are terror survivors taken seriously when they seek help against abusive trolling?
15 mins31 Oct 2022

10. The billion dollar question
A landmark US court ruling gives hope to victims of conspiracy theories in the UK.
16 mins31 Oct 2022

Remember my name
Marianna Spring revisits her investigation into conspiracy theories about terror attacks.
28 mins05 Mar 2023
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/brand/m001dn64
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Brietta

Re: Disaster Trolls
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2023, 10:49:41 PM »
Manchester Arena survivors to take 'disaster troll' to court
Published
1 day ago
Manchester Arena attack
By Marianna Spring
BBC Disinformation and social media correspondent

Manchester Arena bomb survivors have filed landmark legal action against a conspiracy theorist who claims the attack was faked.

Martin and Eve Hibbert, who were left with severe disabilities after the 2017 blast, are suing Richard D Hall for defamation and harassment.

It is the first time such action has been launched in the UK against a conspiracy theorist.

Mr Hall did not respond to the BBC's request for comment.

Martin Hibbert was paralysed from the waist down and his daughter Eve left severely disabled by the Manchester Arena blast which killed 22 people in 2017.

Last October, a Radio 4 podcast series and BBC Panorama investigation revealed they are among victims targeted by conspiracy theorist Richard D Hall, who has described online how he tracks down survivors to their homes and workplaces to see if they are lying about their injuries.

Mr Hall admitted to the BBC that he spied on Miss Hibbert from a vehicle parked outside her home.

He has also described his tactics in a book he sells, and has promoted theories online that several other UK terror attacks were staged.

Now, the family is seeking an injunction to restrain Mr Hall from making similar allegations in future and damages for some of the harm he has caused them.

The case echoes the action against US conspiracist Alex Jones, who was ordered to pay nearly $1.5bn by a US court to families of the US Sandy Hook school shooting after falsely claiming the 2012 attack was a hoax.

"Martin can be seen as a pioneering trailblazer for others to follow if they feel so minded," his lawyer Neil Hudgell said.

Mr Hibbert hopes the action will finally stop Mr Hall and set a UK precedent to help protect other people who survive disasters from these conspiracies and tactics.

"It does sometimes feel like a bit of a weight, so it would be nice to be able to put it to bed and just be able to move on with our lives," he said.

Following the BBC's investigation, Mr Hall's YouTube channel, with over 80,000 followers, was removed and his market stall closed. However, his books and DVDs featuring false claims about terror attacks are still for sale on his website, along with videos about the Manchester Arena Attack.

In December, Mr Hall created a new "True Crime" section on his site listing various events and high-profile deaths, including the recent disappearance of 45-year-old Nicola Bulley.

Mr Hall's defiant response to the BBC investigation and the initial letter from Mr Hibbert's legal team suggests he is yet to change his mind on these conspiracy theories. He continues to defend the book he has written claiming the Manchester Arena attack was staged.

He also says he has received online death threats as a result of the investigation.

But terror attack survivors have also reported that incidents of trolling and conspiracy theories seem to have reduced since it was publicised.

The BBC approached Mr Hall again after the legal case was officially filed, but he did not respond to our request for comment. During the original investigation, when he was confronted at his market stall, he insisted the BBC was wrong about how he operates.

Manchester's Mayor, Andy Burnham, has met Mr Hibbert to discuss campaigning for a new law that could better protect survivors of tragedies from harassment and conspiracy theories.

But such legislation would not be straightforward - social media sites and policy makers have been grappling with hate and disinformation online for some time, with no simple solutions.

"It is always difficult to change the law, and it doesn't happen overnight," Mr Burnham said. "But most people will see the case for this because of the appalling nature of targeting people in this way."

The UK is currently introducing new legislation - the online safety bill - that will mean social media sites have to make commitments to the regulator Ofcom, stating they will protect users.

But there has been lots of debate over how far it will go and it has avoided directly addressing disinformation and abuse targeting adults online due to fears about freedom of expression.

This kind of legislation could face the same opposition.

Listen to the Bonus Episode of Radio 4's Disaster Trolls on BBC Sounds.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65136825


Richard Hall has taken an interest in Madeleine McCann's disappearance and became a hero for many as a result; it will be interesting to see how he will fare in a class action.
I rather hope that his 'victims' ' legal action will be as successful as that of the Man United supporters relations eventually was, but with a shorter time frame than they endured for the truth to be told.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Eleanor

Re: Disaster Trolls
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2023, 02:09:23 AM »

Fascinating.  I had no idea that this was going on, although I am only too aware of the conspiracy theories concerning The McCann Affair.

Something will have to be done eventually and screeching for Freedom of Speech just won't do.  Freedom of Speech carries responsibilities, although I don't hear much about that these days.  A jolly old Court Case for Defamation will be very interesting.

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Disaster Trolls
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2023, 07:21:17 AM »
I’ve always said there’s a programme or podcast to do on the McCann wars that raged for so many years after Madeleine’s disappearance and the lengths some trolls went to, to harass and intimidate not only the McCanns themselves but some of their supporters.  It would be grimly fascinating viewing/listening and perhaps one day when the case is solved it will happen.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Brietta

Re: Disaster Trolls
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2023, 09:31:13 AM »
I’ve always said there’s a programme or podcast to do on the McCann wars that raged for so many years after Madeleine’s disappearance and the lengths some trolls went to, to harass and intimidate not only the McCanns themselves but some of their supporters.  It would be grimly fascinating viewing/listening and perhaps one day when the case is solved it will happen.

I came across this last night and remembering Richard Hall's intrusion into the McCann affair thought it was worthy of keeping members up to speed.

Once a conspiracy theorist, always a conspiracy theorist and all that will give them pause for thought is for appropriate legal action to be taken against them.

We have had a lot of trolling of individuals.  Sometimes as a result of personal suffering and sometimes as a result of an innocent remark or opinion voiced on social media.  Very seldom are there repercussions for the trolls despite the damage done, sometimes even resulting in suicide.

As a nation we have been fortunate to have avoided too many major disasters.  Dunblane immediately springs to mind but that was still pre-internet but the Manchester Arena bombing was not and the fact that trolling was directed against the victims says it all.
The legislation policing trolls must be inadequate if such deviance is allowed to prevail and prosper.  So obviously stronger legislation will appear to be the answer and yet another freedom is chipped away.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Brietta

Re: Disaster Trolls
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2023, 10:15:30 AM »
Fascinating.  I had no idea that this was going on, although I am only too aware of the conspiracy theories concerning The McCann Affair.

Something will have to be done eventually and screeching for Freedom of Speech just won't do.  Freedom of Speech carries responsibilities, although I don't hear much about that these days.  A jolly old Court Case for Defamation will be very interesting.

I thought the information was interesting enough to post at the time due to Hall's McCann association.  But in retrospect I didn't really have to open a new thread to do so because we have an appropriate one recently opened as was revealed by the present pollution proudly boasted about on the internet.

I didn't contribute to "Has CMOMM gone too far with posts and accusations with McCann? Started by Rossb" because although I am familiar with the ethos of this site, I am unable to spend any time there to study it in any depth, because it really does make me feel physically sick so dreadful is it.  Meaning that I actually know little about it beyond its hatred.
I Googled last night to check on a post I had made remarking on the continual attacks on funding for Madeleine's inquiries from 2007 right through to the present day.
I was astounded by the amount of 'work' effort and time this collection of like minded individuals who are members of this organisation actually expend on their activities.

Hall was for a time a poster boy for them.  Hopefully he at least will eventually have his activities curtailed but he is a minnow in a pond ruled by predatory sharks.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Eleanor

Re: Disaster Trolls
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2023, 10:39:41 AM »
Eighty Nine Views and only Five Comments.  Cold Feet anyone?  Perhaps more Socks are needed.

Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: Disaster Trolls
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2023, 11:35:09 AM »
The Unofficial Anthem of Manchester Arena.

Bonfire of teenagers
Which is so high in May north-west sky
Oh, you should've seen her leave for the arena
On the way, she turned and waved and smiled: "Goodbye"
Goodbye

And the silly people sing: "Don't Look Back in Anger"
And the morons sing and sway: "Don't Look Back in Anger"
I can assure you I will look back in anger 'till the day I die

Bonfire of teenagers
Which is so high in May north-west sky
Oh, you should've seen her leave for the arena
Only to be vapourized
Vapourized

And the silly people sing: "Don't Look Back in Anger"
And the morons swing and say: "Don't Look Back in Anger"
I can assure you I will look back in anger 'till the day I die

Go easy on the killer
Go easy on the killer
Go easy on the killer
Go easy on the killer...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKe8Ij3lM2U
I stand with Putin. Glory to Mother Putin.

Offline Eleanor

Re: Disaster Trolls
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2023, 12:20:15 PM »
I thought the information was interesting enough to post at the time due to Hall's McCann association.  But in retrospect I didn't really have to open a new thread to do so because we have an appropriate one recently opened as was revealed by the present pollution proudly boasted about on the internet.

I didn't contribute to "Has CMOMM gone too far with posts and accusations with McCann? Started by Rossb" because although I am familiar with the ethos of this site, I am unable to spend any time there to study it in any depth, because it really does make me feel physically sick so dreadful is it.  Meaning that I actually know little about it beyond its hatred.
I Googled last night to check on a post I had made remarking on the continual attacks on funding for Madeleine's inquiries from 2007 right through to the present day.
I was astounded by the amount of 'work' effort and time this collection of like minded individuals who are members of this organisation actually expend on their activities.

Hall was for a time a poster boy for them.  Hopefully he at least will eventually have his activities curtailed but he is a minnow in a pond ruled by predatory sharks.

And of course, there are hidden Threads on CMoMM.  God alone knows how bad they are, but I doubt that "Sickening" would cover it.

Sadly, The Law has been threatening for a very long time to do something about this, but it never actually happens, although Socks wouldn't be difficult to expose.  And at least Hall puts his name to what he does.  So why not start with him?  Perhaps he might cut a deal to reduce his sentence and blow the whole thing wide open.

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Disaster Trolls
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2023, 12:32:07 PM »
What very much interests me is the psychology of those armchair experts who believe that they know better what happened than those who were there and who investigated these terrible events, and also what drives them to "accept nothing, believe no one, check everything" as if it's their place to take on such an onerous research and campaigning on behalf of the rest of us.  Is it paranoia that the High Ups are out to dupe us at every opportunity?  A mistaken belief that they are "doing-good" for society?  Simple mischief-making borne out of having too much time on their hands?  Or maybe a combination of all these factors. 
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Eleanor

Re: Disaster Trolls
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2023, 05:49:23 PM »
What very much interests me is the psychology of those armchair experts who believe that they know better what happened than those who were there and who investigated these terrible events, and also what drives them to "accept nothing, believe no one, check everything" as if it's their place to take on such an onerous research and campaigning on behalf of the rest of us.  Is it paranoia that the High Ups are out to dupe us at every opportunity?  A mistaken belief that they are "doing-good" for society?  Simple mischief-making borne out of having too much time on their hands?  Or maybe a combination of all these factors.

I try not to think about the state of their minds, but it must be awful for them.  All of that jealousy and rage and still getting nowhere after 16 years.

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Disaster Trolls
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2023, 06:28:23 PM »
I try not to think about the state of their minds, but it must be awful for them.  All of that jealousy and rage and still getting nowhere after 16 years.
To be fair most of them have move on or shuffled off this mortal coil so there’s only a very few die-hards left.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Rossb

Re: Disaster Trolls
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2023, 09:09:39 AM »
I thought the information was interesting enough to post at the time due to Hall's McCann association.  But in retrospect I didn't really have to open a new thread to do so because we have an appropriate one recently opened as was revealed by the present pollution proudly boasted about on the internet.

I didn't contribute to "Has CMOMM gone too far with posts and accusations with McCann? Started by Rossb" because although I am familiar with the ethos of this site, I am unable to spend any time there to study it in any depth, because it really does make me feel physically sick so dreadful is it.  Meaning that I actually know little about it beyond its hatred.
I Googled last night to check on a post I had made remarking on the continual attacks on funding for Madeleine's inquiries from 2007 right through to the present day.
I was astounded by the amount of 'work' effort and time this collection of like minded individuals who are members of this organisation actually expend on their activities.

Hall was for a time a poster boy for them.  Hopefully he at least will eventually have his activities curtailed but he is a minnow in a pond ruled by predatory sharks.

Been away working in Sweden for a bit. Yes I just look at the comments and it's them taking the absolute Micky of people and the parents. It's mental health issues I suspect. But it's everyday same comments when I last looked. I just seen a YouTube video with Brenda Leyland's son, and he has been honest in the interview regarding who she was, and these people vehemently and ideologically defended her. I can send link if need be. Rich hall is from Newcastle where am from. No one knows him or cares for him . On par with the likes of David icke

Offline Rossb

Re: Disaster Trolls
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2023, 09:11:37 AM »
What very much interests me is the psychology of those armchair experts who believe that they know better what happened than those who were there and who investigated these terrible events, and also what drives them to "accept nothing, believe no one, check everything" as if it's their place to take on such an onerous research and campaigning on behalf of the rest of us.  Is it paranoia that the High Ups are out to dupe us at every opportunity?  A mistaken belief that they are "doing-good" for society?  Simple mischief-making borne out of having too much time on their hands?  Or maybe a combination of all these factors.

A lot of sociological and psychological studies points at anxiety stressed, low income and paranoia, distrust and own experiences to blame others. It's like a getaway from the real world because it's not really happening.

Offline Myster

Re: Disaster Trolls
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2023, 09:34:31 AM »
Been away working in Sweden for a bit. Yes I just look at the comments and it's them taking the absolute Micky of people and the parents. It's mental health issues I suspect. But it's everyday same comments when I last looked. I just seen a YouTube video with Brenda Leyland's son, and he has been honest in the interview regarding who she was, and these people vehemently and ideologically defended her. I can send link if need be. Rich hall is from Newcastle where am from. No one knows him or cares for him . On par with the likes of David icke
This one?... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trjod0WG4Mg
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.