What is 'science'

[G-Unit]

You’ve just highlighted precisely why cadaver dog alerts are so unreliable.  Unless the dogs and their handlers have been independently assessed and tested their alerts are meaningless without corroborative evidence.

Cadaver dogs and their handlers are independently assessed and tested regularly. That's how they get a licence to work. They also have a track record showing how successful they have been. It's these records which matter when judging a team. Some teams may be unreliable, others aren't. That's why sweeping statements such as 'cadaver dog alerts are unreliable' are nonsense.

[Venturi Swirl]

Uninformed people bandy the word 'science' around incorrectly. Kate McCann isn't uninformed. In my opinion she knew very well that was using a straw man argument. It's like me relaxing because a train isn't a bus. Nobody ever said it was.

Except she wasn’t.  She was 100% correct.  Cadaver dog alerts ARE NOT an exact science.

[Venturi Swirl]

Cadaver dogs and their handlers are independently assessed and tested regularly. That's how they get a licence to work. They also have a track record showing how successful they have been. It's these records which matter when judging a team. Some teams may be unreliable, others aren't. That's why sweeping statements such as 'cadaver dog alerts are unreliable' are nonsense.

1) Martin Grime’s dogs were out of licence when taken to PdL 2) who grants the licence anyway and 3) who conferred on Eddie the title of ENHANCED victim recovery dog?

[Mr Gray]

Cadaver dogs and their handlers are independently assessed and tested regularly. That's how they get a licence to work. They also have a track record showing how successful they have been. It's these records which matter when judging a team. Some teams may be unreliable, others aren't. That's why sweeping statements such as 'cadaver dog alerts are unreliable' are nonsense.

There does not seem to be any record of eddies assessments which we were told was anectdotal... That isn't science imo.

[Eleanor]

Phew.  I thought I had woken up to a pleasant discussion. Not likely, I know.  But I needn't have worried.

However, it was interesting.  I have now got some idea of what an exact science is.

[G-Unit]

Another pointless thread... You seem to be ignoring the facts... Kate, was told the dogs had detected cadaver odour in the apartment... That would have been a shock... Seeing the digs in action put her mind at rest... It really is, quite obvious

She says her mind was put at rest because the dog alerts weren't an exact science. We can dismiss that reason because no-one claimed it was, so what was the real reason she relaxed? Perhaps the British police had helped, Bob Small, for example;

He explained that the British police regarded the use of sniffer dogs as intelligence rather than evidence, and he was perplexed at the apparent fixation of the PJ on the idea that Madeleine had died in the apartment. He told Gerry he thought they’d get a shock when the forensic results came back. [madeleine]

[G-Unit]

Phew.  I thought I had woken up to a pleasant discussion. Not likely, I know.  But I needn't have worried.

However, it was interesting.  I have now got some idea of what an exact science is.

Me too!

[G-Unit]

There does not seem to be any record of eddies assessments which we were told was anectdotal... That isn't science imo.

Of course it's not science, any more than a C.V. is science. Criticising sniffer dogs for not being scientific, or scientifically tested is a straw man argument because they have never claimed to be scientific. .

[Eleanor]

Of course it's not science, any more than a C.V. is science. Criticising sniffer dogs for not being scientific, or scientifically tested is a straw man argument because they have never claimed to be scientific. .

The only problem with this is that too much importance can be placed on a Sniff or a Bark.

[G-Unit]

The only problem with this is that too much importance can be placed on a Sniff or a Bark.

I agree that some people have placed too much importance on them. Equally others have placed too little importance on them. In my opinion they can be neither relied on or dismissed.

[Erngath]

I agree that some people have placed too much importance on them. Equally others have placed too little importance on them. In my opinion they can be neither relied on or dismissed.

Would you agree that one of those who placed too much importance on them was Amaral who used this "evidence" to conclude that Madeleine died in the apartment and that her parents disposed of her body?

[Mr Gray]

I agree that some people have placed too much importance on them. Equally others have placed too little importance on them. In my opinion they can be neither relied on or dismissed.

Si you have started another dog thread...... At least you have admitted the alerts cannot be relied upon

[G-Unit]

Si you have started another dog thread...... At least you have admitted the alerts cannot be relied upon

This thread is related to the dog alerts because of people's mistaken beliefs that 'science' can somehow provide evidence on the reliability or unreliability of cadaver dogs. It can't, because handlers, dogs and situations differ.

Now it's your turn to admit they can't be dismissed. The alerts can't be relied on as hard evidence, but they are intelligence and so have to be considered.

[G-Unit]

Except she wasn’t.  She was 100% correct.  Cadaver dog alerts ARE NOT an exact science.  The end.

She was wrong to use that as a reason for dismissing them though.

[Mr Gray]

This thread is related to the dog alerts because of people's mistaken beliefs that 'science' can somehow provide evidence on the reliability or unreliability of cadaver dogs. It can't, because handlers, dogs and situations differ.

Now it's your turn to admit they can't be dismissed. The alerts can't be relied on as hard evidence, but they are intelligence and so have to be considered.

Science could provide a guide to reliability if proper scientific tests, were carried out....

Homeopaths claim they have evidence to show homeopathy works... Science has shown it doesn't.... Science can test and verify non scientific principles...
People claim esp is real... Science has shown it isnt