Why was the window open ?

[Angelo222]

It is  only a rare possibility that the window would have been left unlocked. A flat occupied by two parents and three kids one would assume they would make sure the window was closed and locked , then again the Mccanns left their kids alledgedly in an unlocked apartment via the patio doors, I suppose unlocked open windows wouldnt have bothered them either!!!!
You go out of your holiday flat and lock everything. Indeed, Gerry says he locked the flat when he went out every day, but they left it unlocked at night with their kids in there that theynever checked on physically? For three hours plus?Come on!

Are you speaking for everybody. I have a flat in Italy when I go out I leave the shutters closed but the windows behind them are open in order to keep the air flow fresh.

Question is Cudge.  If you had a street level flat and had three small children lying asleep inside would you ensure they were safe?  I take it your shutters are reasonably secure?

[Cudge]

It is  only a rare possibility that the window would have been left unlocked. A flat occupied by two parents and three kids one would assume they would make sure the window was closed and locked , then again the Mccanns left their kids alledgedly in an unlocked apartment via the patio doors, I suppose unlocked open windows wouldnt have bothered them either!!!!
You go out of your holiday flat and lock everything. Indeed, Gerry says he locked the flat when he went out every day, but they left it unlocked at night with their kids in there that theynever checked on physically? For three hours plus?Come on!

Are you speaking for everybody. I have a flat in Italy when I go out I leave the shutters closed but the windows behind them are open in order to keep the air flow fresh.

Question is Cudge.  If you had a street level flat and had three small children lying asleep inside would you ensure they were safe?  I take it your shutters are reasonably secure?

Mine is at ground level There are no actual locks on the shutters however they have a catch on the inside to secure them however if someone was determined I am sure they would not present a problem, My response was to the generic statement that" when you go out of your holiday flat you lock everything" whether there was 3 children sleeping there or not is a seperate issue

[Redblossom]

What abductor? More strange than the acarlet pimpernel, only he was real

The one who abducted Madeleine McCann of course, who else?

Any serious evidenve or proof of that? Nope

Well yes lots of evidence including a sighting of a suspect beside the apartment   Where is the evidence that her parents had anything to do with her disappearance?  Not a shred rendering an abduction the only possible scenario.  Even the PJ had to admit defeat in the end in trying to pin the blame on the McCanns.

Had Maddie met with an accident of some sort at the apartment  Matthew and Jane would not have been sent to check on her.

Problem with that  is a) Tanner was not sent to check on the Mccanns' children and  b) if Matt Oldfield was sent, why did he fail to do so? As for the suspect you mention, he may not be a suspect, it was very usual for parents to be carryng  their children home in that resort late at night But, getting back on track, Cudge, I accept what you say about leaving windows open for air but having a flat secured by security shutters. One point here is no one knows if the window was open or not when the Mccanns rented that flat, but in Kate Mccanns words, they never ever touched it through the week. I 'assume' it was closed before a let.

[John]

But John,  if the abductor was meticulous and had been watching the Tapas group's coming and goings for some time,  then he would be aware that they had been leaving the patio doors unlocked since Sunday night

He would know there was no need  to open the window in order to disguise the fact that he had a key  because the apartment was unsecured in any event,  allowing free entry to any and all, whether they had a key or not

They would not be aware of this icabodcrane as they would have been unable to see what was actually happening at the patio door in the darkness.   In any event they would probably assume that the door was locked.

I prefer to go with the theory that the abductor opened the aluminium blind and the window in order to check if the coast was clear.

[peter claridge]

But John,  if the abductor was meticulous and had been watching the Tapas group's coming and goings for some time,  then he would be aware that they had been leaving the patio doors unlocked since Sunday night

He would know there was no need  to open the window in order to disguise the fact that he had a key  because the apartment was unsecured in any event,  allowing free entry to any and all, whether they had a key or not

They would not be aware of this icabodcrane as they would have been unable to see what was actually happening at the patio door in the darkness.   In any event they would probably assume that the door was locked.

I prefer to go with the theory that the abductor opened the aluminium blind and the window in order to check if the coast was clear.

Then he walked in the direction that would have brought him into direct contact with the never ending stream of child checkers... not very bright is he this abductor of yours.
Of course, if he'd have taken the logical route away from the apartment' then Jane Tanner couldn't have seen him and Gerry in the same place at the same time. 

[John]

=
Problem with that  is a) Tanner was not sent to check on the Mccanns' children and  b) if Matt Oldfield was sent, why did he fail to do so? As for the suspect you mention, he may not be a suspect, it was very usual for parents to be carryng  their children home in that resort late at night But, getting back on track, Cudge, I accept what you say about leaving windows open for air but having a flat secured by security shutters. One point here is no one knows if the window was open or not when the Mccanns rented that flat, but in Kate Mccanns words, they never ever touched it through the week. I 'assume' it was closed before a let.

When you go on holiday with a group of friends who have children you instinctively check on all the rooms in such a situation. It's called the herd instinct.

Jane might not have been sent to do a particular check but she was savvy enough to have listened out for any sounds as she rounded the corner to get to her own apartment.

[icabodcrane]

But John,  if the abductor was meticulous and had been watching the Tapas group's coming and goings for some time,  then he would be aware that they had been leaving the patio doors unlocked since Sunday night

He would know there was no need  to open the window in order to disguise the fact that he had a key  because the apartment was unsecured in any event,  allowing free entry to any and all, whether they had a key or not

They would not be aware of this icabodcrane as they would have been unable to see what was actually happening at the patio door in the darkness.   In any event they would probably assume that the door was locked.

I prefer to go with the theory that the abductor opened the aluminium blind and the window in order to check if the coast was clear.

I can't really go with the  'checking if the coast was clear'  theory

I mean,  what if it hadn't been clear ?  ...  what if someone had been walking past the window at the exact moment he was lifting the shutters from the inside ?

[John]

Then he walked in the direction that would have brought him into direct contact with the never ending stream of child checkers... not very bright is he this abductor of yours.
Of course, if he'd have taken the logical route away from the apartment' then Jane Tanner couldn't have seen him and Gerry in the same place at the same time.

A good point but the route was the lesser of two evils.  Where is this route away from the apartment because if he had gone west he stood the chance of bumping into even more guests.

[peter claridge]

Then he walked in the direction that would have brought him into direct contact with the never ending stream of child checkers... not very bright is he this abductor of yours.
Of course, if he'd have taken the logical route away from the apartment' then Jane Tanner couldn't have seen him and Gerry in the same place at the same time.

A good point but the route was the lesser of two evils.  Where is this route away from the apartment because if he had gone west he stood the chance of bumping into even more guests.

Who would have thought what exactly?

[John]

I can't really go with the  'checking if the coast was clear'  theory

I mean,  what if it hadn't been clear ?  ...  what if someone had been walking past the window at the exact moment he was lifting the shutters from the inside ?

A good point but the abductor knew that if he entered the apartment immediately after Gerry left he had a window of at least 15 minutes to do something which would only take a couple of minutes at most.

There was always a risk that Gerry could have come back but they were quite happy to take that risk.

What they didn't reckon on however was Jane Tanner making an unscheduled trip up the road in order to let her partner come down for his meal.

[Eleanor]

But John,  if the abductor was meticulous and had been watching the Tapas group's coming and goings for some time,  then he would be aware that they had been leaving the patio doors unlocked since Sunday night

He would know there was no need  to open the window in order to disguise the fact that he had a key  because the apartment was unsecured in any event,  allowing free entry to any and all, whether they had a key or not

They would not be aware of this icabodcrane as they would have been unable to see what was actually happening at the patio door in the darkness.   In any event they would probably assume that the door was locked.

I prefer to go with the theory that the abductor opened the aluminium blind and the window in order to check if the coast was clear.

Then he walked in the direction that would have brought him into direct contact with the never ending stream of child checkers... not very bright is he this abductor of yours.
Of course, if he'd have taken the logical route away from the apartment' then Jane Tanner couldn't have seen him and Gerry in the same place at the same time.

The route in the opposite directions leads immediately to a main road.  Much more chance of being seen.
Look at the map.

[John]

Yes and the McCann's apartment was located at the east end of the block and right on the corner.  Going west carrying a child would have been a silly thing to do as he would have been visible from all the front facing apartments.

[peter claridge]

I can't really go with the  'checking if the coast was clear'  theory

I mean,  what if it hadn't been clear ?  ...  what if someone had been walking past the window at the exact moment he was lifting the shutters from the inside ?

A good point but the abductor knew that if he entered the apartment immediately after Gerry left he had a window of at least 15 minutes to do something which would only take a couple of minutes at most.

There was always a risk that Gerry could have come back but they were quite happy to take that risk.

What they didn't reckon on however was Jane Tanner making an unscheduled trip up the road in order to let her partner come down for his meal.

How could the abductor know what the checking routine was of the children.  You've got Tanner's claimed checks mixed up

[Eleanor]

Yes and the McCann's apartment was located at the east end of the block and right on the corner.  Going west carrying a child would have been a silly thing to do as he would have been visible from all the front facing apartments.

And there aren't any quiet back roads in the opposite direction to the one he took.

[peter claridge]

But John,  if the abductor was meticulous and had been watching the Tapas group's coming and goings for some time,  then he would be aware that they had been leaving the patio doors unlocked since Sunday night

He would know there was no need  to open the window in order to disguise the fact that he had a key  because the apartment was unsecured in any event,  allowing free entry to any and all, whether they had a key or not

They would not be aware of this icabodcrane as they would have been unable to see what was actually happening at the patio door in the darkness.   In any event they would probably assume that the door was locked.

I prefer to go with the theory that the abductor opened the aluminium blind and the window in order to check if the coast was clear.

Then he walked in the direction that would have brought him into direct contact with the never ending stream of child checkers... not very bright is he this abductor of yours.
Of course, if he'd have taken the logical route away from the apartment' then Jane Tanner couldn't have seen him and Gerry in the same place at the same time.

The route in the opposite directions leads immediately to a main road.  Much more chance of being seen.
Look at the map.

Seen by whom exactly?