Do witness discrepancies point to lies or are they just improved memory?

[gilet]

It was goncalo Amaral's Documentary I do believe.  So why did he think it was strange?

On reason might be that he had not properly read the witness statements. The portrayal in the documentary by Amaral does not even correspond to what the GNR officer said. Why is Amaral so appallingly lax with such detail?

[icabodcrane]

It was goncalo Amaral's Documentary I do believe.  So why did he think it was strange?

On reason might be that he had not properly read the witness statements. The portrayal in the documentary by Amaral does not even correspond to what the GNR officer said. Why is Amaral so appallingly lax with such detail?

In fairness,  the reconstruction in Amaral's documentary was, on the whole,  closer to actual witness statements than the  reconstruction in the McCann's documentary was

[gilet]

It was goncalo Amaral's Documentary I do believe.  So why did he think it was strange?

On reason might be that he had not properly read the witness statements. The portrayal in the documentary by Amaral does not even correspond to what the GNR officer said. Why is Amaral so appallingly lax with such detail?

How does that excuse his mistakes?

In fairness,  the reconstruction in Amaral's documentary was, on the whole,  closer to actual witness statements than the  reconstruction in the McCann's documentary was

[debunker]

The Psychology of memory is complex. Memory is not a single facet, nor is it always accurate, or more accurate later rather than earlier.

Each time a memory is rehearsed (either silently or with other people, significant changes are introduced into the internal narrative that may in themselves become part of future recall.

Also, in interviews, what is produced is extremely dependent on the questions being asked and the context of the interview.

Anyone who claims to ´know´what statement is correct and what is not is either stupid or acting well above their intellectual pay-grade.

[icabodcrane]

The Psychology of memory is complex. Memory is not a single facet, nor is it always accurate, or more accurate later rather than earlier.

Each time a memory is rehear..d (either silently or with other people, significant changes are introduced into the internal narrative that may in themselves become part of future recall.

Also, in interviews, what is produced is extremely dependent on the questions being asked and the context of the interview.

Anyone who claims to ´know´what statement is correct and what is not is either stupid or acting well above their intellectual pay-grade.

What we can know, without a shadow of doubt,  is that when Gerry McCann said he entered the front door using his key  ...  and then said that he entered through the open patio doors  ...  that  one  of the statements  had to be  untrue   

No need for anyone to punch above their intellectual weight to come to that simple conclusion 

[debunker]

The Psychology of memory is complex. Memory is not a single facet, nor is it always accurate, or more accurate later rather than earlier.

Each time a memory is rehear..d (either silently or with other people, significant changes are introduced into the internal narrative that may in themselves become part of future recall.

Also, in interviews, what is produced is extremely dependent on the questions being asked and the context of the interview.

Anyone who claims to ´know´what statement is correct and what is not is either stupid or acting well above their intellectual pay-grade.

What we can know, without a shadow of doubt,  is that when Gerry McCann said he entered the front door using his key  ...  and then said that he entered through the open patio doors  ...  that  one  of the statements  had to be  untrue   

No need for anyone to punch above their intellectual weight to come to that simple conclusion

It is of course impossible for both to be true. But it is possible for a person to have different memories about the same event. This is normal. It does NOT mean that one of the statements is a lie- merely that his recollection was different at different times.

[icabodcrane]

The Psychology of memory is complex. Memory is not a single facet, nor is it always accurate, or more accurate later rather than earlier.

Each time a memory is rehear..d (either silently or with other people, significant changes are introduced into the internal narrative that may in themselves become part of future recall.

Also, in interviews, what is produced is extremely dependent on the questions being asked and the context of the interview.

Anyone who claims to ´know´what statement is correct and what is not is either stupid or acting well above their intellectual pay-grade.

What we can know, without a shadow of doubt,  is that when Gerry McCann said he entered the front door using his key  ...  and then said that he entered through the open patio doors  ...  that  one  of the statements  had to be  untrue   

No need for anyone to punch above their intellectual weight to come to that simple conclusion

It is of course impossible for both to be true. But it is possible for a person to have different memories about the same event. This is normal. It does NOT mean that one of the statements is a lie- merely that his recollection was different at different times.

OK,  let's explore that theory in relation to Gerry's two statements

The Tapas group arrived in Portugal on Saturday,  and ate,  together with their children in the Millenium restaurant that night

The following night  ( Sunday night )  they ate for the first time in the Tapas bar, leaving their children in the apartments

That's when the McCanns started leaving  the patio doors unlocked for checking  ... on  the  very first night of using the tapas bar

So then,  where did this memory of going in through the front door using his  key  to do a check come from  ?

How could Gerry McCann remember doing something he had never done  ?

[debunker]

The Psychology of memory is complex. Memory is not a single facet, nor is it always accurate, or more accurate later rather than earlier.

Each time a memory is rehear..d (either silently or with other people, significant changes are introduced into the internal narrative that may in themselves become part of future recall.

Also, in interviews, what is produced is extremely dependent on the questions being asked and the context of the interview.

Anyone who claims to ´know´what statement is correct and what is not is either stupid or acting well above their intellectual pay-grade.

What we can know, without a shadow of doubt,  is that when Gerry McCann said he entered the front door using his key  ...  and then said that he entered through the open patio doors  ...  that  one  of the statements  had to be  untrue   

No need for anyone to punch above their intellectual weight to come to that simple conclusion

It is of course impossible for both to be true. But it is possible for a person to have different memories about the same event. This is normal. It does NOT mean that one of the statements is a lie- merely that his recollection was different at different times.

OK,  let's explore that theory in relation to Gerry's two statements

The Tapas group arrived in Portugal on Saturday,  and ate,  together with their children in the Millenium restaurant that night

The following night  ( Sunday night )  they ate for the first time in the Tapas bar, leaving their children in the apartments

That's when the McCanns started leaving  the patio doors unlocked for checking  ... on  the  very first night of using the tapas bar

So then,  where did this memory of going in through the front door using his  key  to do a check come from  ?

How could Gerry McCann remember doing something he had never done  ?

Because that is how memory works.

For reference see a paper entitled Lost In The Mall- I will look for the reference.

[debunker]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_in_the_mall_technique

[icabodcrane]

The Psychology of memory is complex. Memory is not a single facet, nor is it always accurate, or more accurate later rather than earlier.

Each time a memory is rehear..d (either silently or with other people, significant changes are introduced into the internal narrative that may in themselves become part of future recall.

Also, in interviews, what is produced is extremely dependent on the questions being asked and the context of the interview.

Anyone who claims to ´know´what statement is correct and what is not is either stupid or acting well above their intellectual pay-grade.

What we can know, without a shadow of doubt,  is that when Gerry McCann said he entered the front door using his key  ...  and then said that he entered through the open patio doors  ...  that  one  of the statements  had to be  untrue   

No need for anyone to punch above their intellectual weight to come to that simple conclusion

It is of course impossible for both to be true. But it is possible for a person to have different memories about the same event. This is normal. It does NOT mean that one of the statements is a lie- merely that his recollection was different at different times.

OK,  let's explore that theory in relation to Gerry's two statements

The Tapas group arrived in Portugal on Saturday,  and ate,  together with their children in the Millenium restaurant that night

The following night  ( Sunday night )  they ate for the first time in the Tapas bar, leaving their children in the apartments

That's when the McCanns started leaving  the patio doors unlocked for checking  ... on  the  very first night of using the tapas bar

So then,  where did this memory of going in through the front door using his  key  to do a check come from  ?

How could Gerry McCann remember doing something he had never done  ?

Because that is how memory works.

For reference see a paper entitled Lost In The Mall- I will look for the reference.

That's a disappointing response

I thought you might be able to apply your reasoning to this particular instance 

[gilet]

When one person's memory of a situation alters, that is a discrepancy.

When three people all suddenly come up with the same new material months after the event, that is a very, very big red flag.

And when someone then uses it as the only significant detail of the arrival on the scene of the first responders (no mention of the search organisation, no mention of the actions the GNR took, no mention of anything but the praying action) in his video to promote his thesis about death then it becomes an even bigger red flag in my opinion.

[Carana]

Interesting interview on cognitive interviews.

http://www.open.edu/openlearn/body-mind/psychology/becky-milne-explains-the-cognitive-interview


And this on eyewitness testimony:

http://www.whatispsychology.biz/putting-eyewitness-testimony-to-the-test-00030

[icabodcrane]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_in_the_mall_technique

So you re suggesting Gerry's memory of doing his check by way of the front door using a key had been 'implanted'   in his mind using the 'lost in the mall technique'

Who did this implanting then ? 

tsk tsk,  what nonsense

[Carana]

The Psychology of memory is complex. Memory is not a single facet, nor is it always accurate, or more accurate later rather than earlier.

Each time a memory is rehear..d (either silently or with other people, significant changes are introduced into the internal narrative that may in themselves become part of future recall.

Also, in interviews, what is produced is extremely dependent on the questions being asked and the context of the interview.

Anyone who claims to ´know´what statement is correct and what is not is either stupid or acting well above their intellectual pay-grade.

What we can know, without a shadow of doubt,  is that when Gerry McCann said he entered the front door using his key  ...  and then said that he entered through the open patio doors  ...  that  one  of the statements  had to be  untrue   

No need for anyone to punch above their intellectual weight to come to that simple conclusion

I posted what I find the most plausible explanation a bit further up.

They are just summaries of what was understood in a 3-way communication process involving translation. It wasn't a verbatim report.

[Carana]

The Psychology of memory is complex. Memory is not a single facet, nor is it always accurate, or more accurate later rather than earlier.

Each time a memory is rehear..d (either silently or with other people, significant changes are introduced into the internal narrative that may in themselves become part of future recall.

Also, in interviews, what is produced is extremely dependent on the questions being asked and the context of the interview.

Anyone who claims to ´know´what statement is correct and what is not is either stupid or acting well above their intellectual pay-grade.

What we can know, without a shadow of doubt,  is that when Gerry McCann said he entered the front door using his key  ...  and then said that he entered through the open patio doors  ...  that  one  of the statements  had to be  untrue   

No need for anyone to punch above their intellectual weight to come to that simple conclusion

It is of course impossible for both to be true. But it is possible for a person to have different memories about the same event. This is normal. It does NOT mean that one of the statements is a lie- merely that his recollection was different at different times.

I get the impression that people are talking about different things.

One being memory recall, but the other is the content of (PT) statements which are not verbatim and which are simply a summary of what the officer has understood. Factor in stress, language difficulties... and what we see on paper may not equate to what was actually said / understood.