Wandering Off Topic

[G-Unit]

The lady who died did seem to like taking photos in high places.



https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/first-picture-british-tourist-boyfriend-12697956

[Sunny]

Yes. If in 2018 Portuguese forensics cannot obtain a DNA profile from a clump of hair found in one victim's clutch (which presumably had roots & was not cuttings from the floor of the local barber's) what chance of solving a crime back in 2007 by testing all the shed hairs collected from 5A?

You certainly make assumptions misty. Hair can be removed without roots without being cut by a barber or hairdresser as you surely will know. 

Anything to bash the PJ some more eh misty?

Edited

Even with a root it seems it is only upto 60 to 70% successful, and

Success Rate of Hair Samples
The success rate in terms of extraction of DNA from any samples is dependent on a number of factors:

Chemical treatment using dyes can alter the cuticle. Dyes can easily penetrate the spaces between the scaly cells forming the hair cuticle or even raise them in order to be better absorbed by the hair. Peroxides, one of the main constituent chemicals in hair dyes, heavily contribute to the degradation of DNA in hair. Peroxides act by specifically breaking the phosphodiester bonds in DNA. Once the hair is exposed to water on washing, the DNA is easily washed out of the hair fibers. The higher the number of washes, the more DNA is lost from the hairs. This loss of DNA is not only due to the degradation and breaking down of the phosphodiester bonds in DNA but also to the damage caused to the hair by simply washing it.

We cannot discount the importance and possible effects of other factors which would affect any type of DNA samples: the age of the sample, the way the sample has been collected and stored, and any external forces that may have altered the state of the DNA (for example, exposure to very high temperatures, soaps and cleaning agents, or to corrosive substances).

https://www.forensicmag.com/article/2013/04/challenges-dna-testing-and-forensic-analysis-hair-samples

[Brietta]

You certainly make assumptions misty. Hair can be removed without roots without being cut by a barber or hairdresser as you surely will know. 

Anything to bash the PJ some more eh misty?

Edited

Even with a root it seems it is only upto 60 to 70% successful, and

Success Rate of Hair Samples
The success rate in terms of extraction of DNA from any samples is dependent on a number of factors:

Chemical treatment using dyes can alter the cuticle. Dyes can easily penetrate the spaces between the scaly cells forming the hair cuticle or even raise them in order to be better absorbed by the hair. Peroxides, one of the main constituent chemicals in hair dyes, heavily contribute to the degradation of DNA in hair. Peroxides act by specifically breaking the phosphodiester bonds in DNA. Once the hair is exposed to water on washing, the DNA is easily washed out of the hair fibers. The higher the number of washes, the more DNA is lost from the hairs. This loss of DNA is not only due to the degradation and breaking down of the phosphodiester bonds in DNA but also to the damage caused to the hair by simply washing it.

We cannot discount the importance and possible effects of other factors which would affect any type of DNA samples: the age of the sample, the way the sample has been collected and stored, and any external forces that may have altered the state of the DNA (for example, exposure to very high temperatures, soaps and cleaning agents, or to corrosive substances).

https://www.forensicmag.com/article/2013/04/challenges-dna-testing-and-forensic-analysis-hair-samples

The judicial police appear to have started and ended their investigation into the fall from the finish and not the beginning.

According to newspaper reports the only witness interviewed was the person who had found the bodies.

I think that leaves a lot of space for criticism.

[Brietta]

Neil Mackay: Look around this nasty nation and you will see hatred everywhere
By Neil Mackay
Writer at large
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/17289367.neil-mackay-look-around-this-nasty-nation-and-you-will-see-hatred-everywhere/


While reading Neil McKay’s article on hatred I couldn’t help but make the comparison and the connection between the situations he describes and the vitriol spewed out against the McCann family, not by the day or by the hour but by the nanosecond in industrial loads.

According to MacKay, the element of hatred is described in the long term as having become synonymous with how we as a nation are forging a lasting opinion of who we are in the world arena.


“This is what we’ve become – hatred everywhere, hatred on the streets, hatred in debate, hatred eating us from the inside out.

It makes one wonder, though, if we were ever a nation of decency.

No truly decent society could split and sunder and curdle so quickly as we have if we had goodness at our core.

Surely, some rot was in the heart of this nation for a long time for us to crumble so quickly.

Has the masked just slipped dramatically in the last two years revealing the truly ugly face of Britain?”  Neil MacKay


Just add the word “McCann” into that somewhere and you may see why I made the connection with so many – many – many hostile fora based on and nurturing McCann family hatred.
Is this our legacy for future generations?  I find the resonance of MacKay’s description painfully apt … “ … a diminished nation and a uniquely UK-style of troll – nasty, British and short …”



The second connection I made was with the successful action at the European Court of Justice.
I can’t find a link on the internet as yet … but the application to the ECJ can be explained here … https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/16894721.landmark-legal-victory-could-see-brexit-halted-at-11th-hour/

The paper version carries the headline ... Scotland's landmark legal case: A year-long fight against the odds JUDGES' RULING Tom Gordon

Food for thought.

[G-Unit]

Neil Mackay: Look around this nasty nation and you will see hatred everywhere
By Neil Mackay
Writer at large
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/17289367.neil-mackay-look-around-this-nasty-nation-and-you-will-see-hatred-everywhere/


While reading Neil McKay’s article on hatred I couldn’t help but make the comparison and the connection between the situations he describes and the vitriol spewed out against the McCann family, not by the day or by the hour but by the nanosecond in industrial loads.

According to MacKay, the element of hatred is described in the long term as having become synonymous with how we as a nation are forging a lasting opinion of who we are in the world arena.


“This is what we’ve become – hatred everywhere, hatred on the streets, hatred in debate, hatred eating us from the inside out.

It makes one wonder, though, if we were ever a nation of decency.

No truly decent society could split and sunder and curdle so quickly as we have if we had goodness at our core.

Surely, some rot was in the heart of this nation for a long time for us to crumble so quickly.

Has the masked just slipped dramatically in the last two years revealing the truly ugly face of Britain?”  Neil MacKay


Just add the word “McCann” into that somewhere and you may see why I made the connection with so many – many – many hostile fora based on and nurturing McCann family hatred.
Is this our legacy for future generations?  I find the resonance of MacKay’s description painfully apt … “ … a diminished nation and a uniquely UK-style of troll – nasty, British and short …”



The second connection I made was with the successful action at the European Court of Justice.
I can’t find a link on the internet as yet … but the application to the ECJ can be explained here … https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/16894721.landmark-legal-victory-could-see-brexit-halted-at-11th-hour/

The paper version carries the headline ... Scotland's landmark legal case: A year-long fight against the odds JUDGES' RULING Tom Gordon

Food for thought.

This reporter seems to be ignoring the fact that our 'nation' has never been harmonious.The Irish, Scottish and Welsh people have a history of conflict with the English going back centuries. A lot of Scottish people would like to get out of the United Kingdom.

I don't think the Brexit Leavers and Remainers hate each other at all. Well, they might do in Scotland, where 'hate'
seems to be one of their favourite words.

What we should all be concerned about is the low esteem in which a democratic vote is held by our political classes throughout the UK. The Labour politicians rejected the democratic election of their Leader and now most of our MP's seem quite happy to ignore the result of the Brexit Referendum.

I'm not a supporter of Theresa May, but she seems to be the only one attempting to carry out the will of the people.

[Brietta]

This reporter seems to be ignoring the fact that our 'nation' has never been harmonious.The Irish, Scottish and Welsh people have a history of conflict with the English going back centuries. A lot of Scottish people would like to get out of the United Kingdom.

I don't think the Brexit Leavers and Remainers hate each other at all. Well, they might do in Scotland, where 'hate'
seems to be one of their favourite words.

What we should all be concerned about is the low esteem in which a democratic vote is held by our political classes throughout the UK. The Labour politicians rejected the democratic election of their Leader and now most of our MP's seem quite happy to ignore the result of the Brexit Referendum.

I'm not a supporter of Theresa May, but she seems to be the only one attempting to carry out the will of the people.

The chaos of Brexit is a hiccup in history and is not to be confused with the apparent endemic hatred which it appears to reflect.

Not once did I mention Brexit in my post which concerned the wider connotation of the hatred which abounds in our society as outlined by Neil MacKay in relation to the deliberate targeting of an innocent family as international hated objects.

Rather interesting that on this board ... you chose to raise the telescope to a blind eye.

[kizzy]

The chaos of Brexit is a hiccup in history and is not to be confused with the apparent endemic hatred which it appears to reflect.

Not once did I mention Brexit in my post which concerned the wider connotation of the hatred which abounds in our society as outlined by Neil MacKay in relation to the deliberate targeting of an innocent family as international hated objects.

Rather interesting that on this board ... you chose to raise the telescope to a blind eye.

N M didnt mention mcns either - obviously your opinion.

Just add the word “McCann” into that somewhere and you may see why I made the connection with so many – many – many hostile fora based on and nurturing McCann family hatred.
Is this our legacy for future generations?  I find the resonance of MacKay’s description painfully apt … “ … a diminished nation and a uniquely UK-style of troll – nasty, British and short …”



What is your proof its hatred - does it occur to you its just maybe they don't believe the mcns version or maddie was abducted

[G-Unit]

The chaos of Brexit is a hiccup in history and is not to be confused with the apparent endemic hatred which it appears to reflect.

Not once did I mention Brexit in my post which concerned the wider connotation of the hatred which abounds in our society as outlined by Neil MacKay in relation to the deliberate targeting of an innocent family as international hated objects.

Rather interesting that on this board ... you chose to raise the telescope to a blind eye.

The journalist seems to be using Brexit to pontificate about hatred just as you seem to use the McCanns to do it.   I think hatred, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. I see more kindness in society now than I did 50 years ago, so I disagree with both of you.

[Brietta]

The journalist seems to be using Brexit to pontificate about hatred just as you seem to use the McCanns to do it.   I think hatred, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. I see more kindness in society now than I did 50 years ago, so I disagree with both of you.

Make no mistake about it.  There is nothing that I "seem" to think about the constant stream of hatred directed at the McCann family ... I am very firm about it and the horrible effect it must have on the hated but more particularly on the psyche of the perpetrators of that hate.
Pontificate?? maybe so as far as some may be concerned ... and there is at least one brand of kindness shown today that was unnecessary fifty years ago in the efforts of those running food banks and those contributing to them to feed working families.

[faithlilly]

The chaos of Brexit is a hiccup in history and is not to be confused with the apparent endemic hatred which it appears to reflect.

Not once did I mention Brexit in my post which concerned the wider connotation of the hatred which abounds in our society as outlined by Neil MacKay in relation to the deliberate targeting of an innocent family as international hated objects.

Rather interesting that on this board ... you chose to raise the telescope to a blind eye.

Why do you think that the McCanns, who should be the subject of overwhelming sympathy, find themselves ‘international hated objects’ ? Amongst the parents of missing and murdered children aren’t these parents unique in this ?

[Venturi Swirl]

Why do you think that the McCanns, who should be the subject of overwhelming sympathy, find themselves ‘international hated objects’ ? Amongst the parents of missing and murdered children aren’t these parents unique in this ?

No, that woman whose baby was stolen by a dingo was not very popular either, and that was pre-internet. 

[Brietta]

Why do you think that the McCanns, who should be the subject of overwhelming sympathy, find themselves ‘international hated objects’ ? Amongst the parents of missing and murdered children aren’t these parents unique in this ?

I haven't a clue ... but I am sure you would be able to elucidate.

[Eleanor]

Make no mistake about it.  There is nothing that I "seem" to think about the constant stream of hatred directed at the McCann family ... I am very firm about it and the horrible effect it must have on the hated but more particularly on the psyche of the perpetrators of that hate.
Pontificate?? maybe so as far as some may be concerned ... and there is at least one brand of kindness shown today that was unnecessary fifty years ago in the efforts of those running food banks and those contributing to them to feed working families.

I go to a Food Bank every week.  No one ever makes me feel somehow diminished.  They are all very kind.  But then France is so much more understanding of the need.

[jassi]

I go to a Food Bank every week.  No one ever makes me feel somehow diminished.  They are all very kind.  But then France is so much more understanding of the need.

In the Uk, these are only supposed to be for the occasional user.
People are not supposed to go on a weekly basis

[faithlilly]

I go to a Food Bank every week.  No one ever makes me feel somehow diminished.  They are all very kind.  But then France is so much more understanding of the need.

No one should ever feel diminished because they need help. Every one of us are just a few wage packets from penury.