Author Topic: Are there thousands of pages not in the file on the internet?  (Read 25741 times)

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Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Are there thousands of pages not in the file on the internet?
« Reply #45 on: August 11, 2018, 08:15:48 PM »
You know the situation you are thinking of.  I'm just learning, but if you say someone had to go through 40,000 pages looking for a particular document you would hope they had a very good index system to assist you.

Those who have a right of access have to apply for access through the Judicial Authority. It can be declined under certain circumstances apparently.
I would presume the files have a workable indexing system on the basis that the file custodians are the ones who will be doing the retrieval and searches. It would seem counterproductive to devise a system that is inoperable by those who need to use it. Remember this cannot be looked at solely through the "McCann prism".
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline G-Unit

Re: Are there thousands of pages not in the file on the internet?
« Reply #46 on: August 11, 2018, 09:07:03 PM »
Although Madeleine's case was archived information continued to come in to the Policia Judiciaria; by this time the man in charge being Ricardo Piava.

At the libel trial in 2010 the judge ordered these files to be released to Isobel Duarte, the McCann lawyer.

Snip
Isabel Duarte, the couple’s solicitor, asked to see the police file after Inspector Paiva mentioned it during the court case.

“It is a disgrace that none of this information was given to Kate and Gerry. Some of the photos are shockingly similar to Madeleine.

“Every piece was treated the same way – Ricardo Paiva writes on it ‘this is not relevant to the investigation’.

“I said to him ‘How can you find a person when you are not looking for them?’”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/7353737/Madeleine-McCann-more-than-50-new-leads.html


Any information coming into the investigation post 2008 would be contained in those files Paiva had ... we have little idea what information might have been contained therein, but the files were extensive.
For example just one instance re: telephone traffic ...

Snip
There were some 70,000 calls on the documents provided to the officers but I do not believe they have ever been properly analysed. It would be good if they did that now                   Lawyer Isabel Duarte

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/317111/Madeleine-McCann-The-lost-clues

I wonder why she was so interested in this dossier and not in these files which were treated similarly?

22 dossiers were constituted, with more than 5000 pages, concerning fanciful or senseless news, yet organised out of mere caution.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Are there thousands of pages not in the file on the internet?
« Reply #47 on: August 11, 2018, 10:16:12 PM »
I wonder why she was so interested in this dossier and not in these files which were treated similarly?

22 dossiers were constituted, with more than 5000 pages, concerning fanciful or senseless news, yet organised out of mere caution.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm
Disgusting on both accounts IMO.
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Offline Brietta

Re: Are there thousands of pages not in the file on the internet?
« Reply #48 on: August 11, 2018, 11:02:51 PM »
I wonder why she was so interested in this dossier and not in these files which were treated similarly?

22 dossiers were constituted, with more than 5000 pages, concerning fanciful or senseless news, yet organised out of mere caution.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm

I'm not quite sure if I know what you are talking about.

During a trial it was discovered that information sent to the Policia Judiciaria from the shelving of Madeleine's case in 2008 until 2010 had admittedly been filed as irrelevant to the investigation with no investigative activity being taken regarding them.

Can you think of any reason at all why anyone interested in Madeleine would not be desperate to access files which had never seen the light of day since receipt?
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Are there thousands of pages not in the file on the internet?
« Reply #49 on: August 11, 2018, 11:16:29 PM »
I'm not quite sure if I know what you are talking about.

During a trial it was discovered that information sent to the Policia Judiciaria from the shelving of Madeleine's case in 2008 until 2010 had admittedly been filed as irrelevant to the investigation with no investigative activity being taken regarding them.

Can you think of any reason at all why anyone interested in Madeleine would not be desperate to access files which had never seen the light of day since receipt?
That is the feeling I had when reading about that too.
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Offline G-Unit

Re: Are there thousands of pages not in the file on the internet?
« Reply #50 on: August 11, 2018, 11:22:08 PM »
Disgusting on both accounts IMO.

I would imagine most investigations which appeal for information (not that the PJ did) from the public end up with 99% of it being senseless or fanciful. LP were prepared to part with 81 such 'trivial' pieces of information, much to Kate McCann's chagrin. She had hoped to get her hands on some useful evidence.
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Are there thousands of pages not in the file on the internet?
« Reply #51 on: August 11, 2018, 11:32:21 PM »
I would imagine most investigations which appeal for information (not that the PJ did) from the public end up with 99% of it being senseless or fanciful. LP were prepared to part with 81 such 'trivial' pieces of information, much to Kate McCann's chagrin. She had hoped to get her hands on some useful evidence.
'That must have been frustrating for Kate.  They wanted to lead their own investigation and all the information already submitted locked up in police files.
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Offline G-Unit

Re: Are there thousands of pages not in the file on the internet?
« Reply #52 on: August 11, 2018, 11:53:00 PM »
'That must have been frustrating for Kate.  They wanted to lead their own investigation and all the information already submitted locked up in police files.

Oh it was. She failed to understand the fact that members of the public don't get access to police evidence no matter why they want it. She made several mistakes imo. She believed the UK police when they said they couldn't tell her things because of judicial secrecy. She thought she was letting them off that hook by getting a court to order the release of the information. She was shocked to discover that LP had no intention of giving her what she wanted when they, the Attorney General and ACPO showed that they were prepared to fight the request tooth and nail.
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Are there thousands of pages not in the file on the internet?
« Reply #53 on: August 12, 2018, 12:22:06 AM »
Oh it was. She failed to understand the fact that members of the public don't get access to police evidence no matter why they want it. She made several mistakes imo. She believed the UK police when they said they couldn't tell her things because of judicial secrecy. She thought she was letting them off that hook by getting a court to order the release of the information. She was shocked to discover that LP had no intention of giving her what she wanted when they, the Attorney General and ACPO showed that they were prepared to fight the request tooth and nail.
Hardly the actions of a guilty person IMO. 
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Offline Brietta

Re: Are there thousands of pages not in the file on the internet?
« Reply #54 on: August 12, 2018, 02:53:05 AM »
I would imagine most investigations which appeal for information (not that the PJ did) from the public end up with 99% of it being senseless or fanciful. LP were prepared to part with 81 such 'trivial' pieces of information, much to Kate McCann's chagrin. She had hoped to get her hands on some useful evidence.

A little girl was missing.

They suspended work on her case in July 2008 ... only 14 months after her disappearance.  Thereafter information forwarded about her from other police forces and independent witnesses to the (non) investigation now in the charge of Ricardo Paiva was effectively ignored.

Information about a little girl in New Zealand lay neglected in police files for two years.  She was so similar to Madeleine that it subsequently took a DNA test to eliminate her.  Had she been Madeleine ... I very much doubt if she would still have been there two years down the line.

In my opinion that is not how one would expect the search for a missing child to be conducted.  Interesting you should condone that.


Madeleine McCann: more than 50 new leads
More than 50 potential new leads into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann surfaced last night as details of a previously unknown police file were released.


Caroline Gammell in Portimao7:20AM GMT 03 Mar 2010

Scores of sightings were reported after the Portuguese police formally closed their investigation in July 2008 but the majority were not followed up.

The 2,000 page dossier contains hundreds of witness statements, photographs and unsolved lines of inquiry.

The sightings ranged from Europe to the west coast of the US, Hong Kong and Australasia and were passed on by independent witnesses and international police forces.

Madeleine was three when she vanished from her family’s apartment in the Algarve resort town of Praia da Luz in May 2007.

Her parents Kate and Gerry, both 41, have fought to keep their daughter’s plight in the spotlight, hiring their own private investigators to continue the search.

They only discovered the existence of the Portuguese police file last month during their court battle against Goncalo Amaral, the disgraced detective who tried to publish a book accusing the couple of covering up their daughter’s death.

The extensive dossier was released by the Portuguese authorities in Portimao yesterday after a request by The Daily Telegraph and includes:

:: Information about a British-registered white Mercedes box van which travelled on a ferry from Tarifa to Tangiers to Morocco from Spain with false number plates in the week Madeleine went missing. Its driver could not be traced

:: CCTV footage of a young girl resembling Madeleine which was taken in a supermarket in New Zealand in December 2007.

:: Repeated sightings of a girl who looked like Madeleine in Gent, Kortrijk and Bruges in Belgium in November 2008.

:: Information about a girl similar to Madeleine wearing a pyjama top similar to the one she was wearing when she disappeared who was with an “unkempt” couple in Agua Marina, near Murcia in Spain on May 15, 2007.

:: Reports in October 2008 of a girl matching Madeleine’s description being dragged along a road towards Faro airport on May 3, 2007 – the night she disappeared.

:: An account from lorry driver Michel Guidard who saw how a young girl who looked like Madeleine wearing a dirty yellow jumper and naked from the waist down being held at gunpoint at a motorway toll on the A20 near Paris in August 2008.

:: Photographs from the internet uncovered by a female French detective showing images of sexual abuse which involved a girl resembling Madeleine.

The previously unseen CCTV footage from New Zealand was sent to the Portuguese police by Interpol in Wellington in July 2008, just as they closed their investigation.

A female security guard at a supermarket in Dunedin, on the south island, thought she saw Madeleine on December 6, 2007.

She said the girl and the man holding her hand had British accents. Attempts to identify them failed and the information was passed to the Portuguese.

A hand-written note on the papers in the file said: “This has been checked by PJ and has no relevance to this investigation.”

The McCanns, from Rothley in Leicestershire, are furious that they were not told about the leads at the time and that they were not followed up to their satisfaction.

After successfully blocking the publication of Mr Amaral’s book The Truth of the Lie last month, Mrs McCann said: “There are instances where information which we think is very credible and worthy of information has not been actioned.

“We’re gutted, it’s absolutely shocking and difficult. Some of the information handed in was very credible, it’s heartbreaking to know that it seems to end there.”

Mr McCann was angered by Inspector Ricardo Paiva, their former liaison officer, who was responsible for collating any information that came into the police about Madeleine after the formal Portuguese investigation came to an end.

He said: “Inspector Paiva believes Madeleine is dead. How can he investigate thoroughly if he believes that?

“We know now there is a lot of information just filed away – and that is not acceptable.

“Once the file has been closed, what has actually been done? Next to nothing.”

Isabel Duarte, the couple’s solicitor, asked to see the police file after Inspector Paiva mentioned it during the court case.

“It is a disgrace that none of this information was given to Kate and Gerry. Some of the photos are shockingly similar to Madeleine.

“Every piece was treated the same way – Ricardo Paiva writes on it ‘this is not relevant to the investigation’.

“I said to him ‘How can you find a person when you are not looking for them?’”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/7353737/Madeleine-McCann-more-than-50-new-leads.html
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Are there thousands of pages not in the file on the internet?
« Reply #55 on: August 12, 2018, 05:35:21 AM »
Well that is an admission of a 2000 page dossier right there. 
"The 2,000 page dossier contains hundreds of witness statements, photographs and unsolved lines of inquiry".
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Offline G-Unit

Re: Are there thousands of pages not in the file on the internet?
« Reply #56 on: August 12, 2018, 08:38:46 AM »
Hardly the actions of a guilty person IMO.

Wouldn't that depend on why there were repeated attempts to see what evidence the PJ and LP had? Forewarned is forearmed, after all.
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Offline G-Unit

Re: Are there thousands of pages not in the file on the internet?
« Reply #57 on: August 12, 2018, 08:47:40 AM »
I'm not quite sure if I know what you are talking about.

During a trial it was discovered that information sent to the Policia Judiciaria from the shelving of Madeleine's case in 2008 until 2010 had admittedly been filed as irrelevant to the investigation with no investigative activity being taken regarding them.

Can you think of any reason at all why anyone interested in Madeleine would not be desperate to access files which had never seen the light of day since receipt?

It's also a fact that before the archiving 5.000 pages of information had been labelled 'senseless or fanciful' by the PJ. Those 5,000 pages have never been released. Why didn't the McCanns try to get those 22 dossiers so their PI's could make sure there was nothing in there which might be useful?
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Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Are there thousands of pages not in the file on the internet?
« Reply #58 on: August 12, 2018, 09:00:18 AM »
It's also a fact that before the archiving 5.000 pages of information had been labelled 'senseless or fanciful' by the PJ. Those 5,000 pages have never been released. Why didn't the McCanns try to get those 22 dossiers so their PI's could make sure there was nothing in there which might be useful?
How do you know for a fact they didn’t?
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Offline G-Unit

Re: Are there thousands of pages not in the file on the internet?
« Reply #59 on: August 12, 2018, 09:12:45 AM »
How do you know for a fact they didn’t?

I expect we would have heard about poor anguished Kate and Gerry being denied access to evidence which might help in their search by the nasty heartless Portuguese authorities.
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