Are there thousands of pages not in the file on the internet?

[Robittybob1]

I didn't ask for a new topic to be created based around missing pages.

I can edit this one as well.

[Robittybob1]

Is this the wording you want?  Proof also that thousands more pages "on the DVD" are not on the internet.

That to me suggests the job of translating the files on the DVD has not been completed.  Is that what you are suggesting?  Please explain why you added "on the DVD"?

[misty]

Is this the wording you want?  Proof also that thousands more pages "on the DVD" are not on the internet.

That to me suggests the job of translating the files on the DVD has not been completed.  Is that what you are suggesting?  Please explain why you added "on the DVD"?

Rob - there are many, many numbered pages forming part of the PJ files released on the DVD which are missing in their original form & thus not available for translation. That is proven by the figures quoted at the beginning of the legal summary. There are also many statements & other investigative information collected & recorded on HOLMES by UK police which cannot be released to anyone because of the data protection act. I do not know where other countries' data has been stored.

[Robittybob1]

Rob - there are many, many numbered pages forming part of the PJ files released on the DVD which are missing in their original form & thus not available for translation. That is proven by the figures quoted at the beginning of the legal summary. There are also many statements & other investigative information collected & recorded on HOLMES by UK police which cannot be released to anyone because of the data protection act. I do not know where other countries' data has been stored.

You might be right about all of these
1. there are many, many numbered pages forming part of the PJ files released on the DVD which are missing in their original form & thus not available for translation. That is proven by the figures quoted at the beginning of the legal summary.

2. There are also many statements & other investigative information collected & recorded on HOLMES by UK police which cannot be released to anyone because of the data protection act.

3.  I do not know where other countries' data has been stored.

2 and 3 seem logical as I did read a request from the British to have all their data kept confidential.

As far as 1. goes I'm not completely sure what you are talking about, was it like the original statement by Raj Balu?

[G-Unit]

Really? Here are just 2 examples of PJ page re-numbering which are confusing.

I have looked at the first one, which is about the DNA of the twins. It may be cross referencing to the original document which was in English? They would only include the Portuguese translations in the main files, the originals would go into an appendix (apensos).

[G-Unit]

You might be right about all of these
1. there are many, many numbered pages forming part of the PJ files released on the DVD which are missing in their original form & thus not available for translation. That is proven by the figures quoted at the beginning of the legal summary.

2. There are also many statements & other investigative information collected & recorded on HOLMES by UK police which cannot be released to anyone because of the data protection act.

3.  I do not know where other countries' data has been stored.

2 and 3 seem logical as I did read a request from the British to have all their data kept confidential.

As far as 1. goes I'm not completely sure what you are talking about, was it like the original statement by Raj Balu?

Leicestershire Constabulary had 11,000 pieces of information on 'the computer system'. How much of that was printed out and filed by the PJ isn't known.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6204.msg232060#msg232060


Looking at just one witness we know that a statement was taken from Stephen Carpenter on 17th May 2007 because it was discussed at his rogatory interview on 17th May 2008. We don;t know if his first statement was seen by the PJ or not.

[ShiningInLuz]

Leicestershire Constabulary had 11,000 pieces of information on 'the computer system'. How much of that was printed out and filed by the PJ isn't known.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6204.msg232060#msg232060


Looking at just one witness we know that a statement was taken from Stephen Carpenter on 17th May 2007 because it was discussed at his rogatory interview on 17th May 2008. We don;t know if his first statement was seen by the PJ or not.

This thread could turn into a treasure trove of information if those finding evidence of missing pieces were to stack them here.

Berry and Balu spring to mind, but there must be many more.

[G-Unit]

This thread could turn into a treasure trove of information if those finding evidence of missing pieces were to stack them here.

Berry and Balu spring to mind, but there must be many more.

The Carpenter statement is interesting because it was taken at the request of the McCanns. Berry and Balu were interviewed at the request of the PJ.

[Alice Purjorick]

What I meant is that a person shouldn't argue the point and keep on saying "all the files are on the internet".

You seem to agree with my stance that not all the files are on the internet as "the PP decides what goes in the case file and what is made available to the public on archiving".

Thanks for the support.

Yes and no problem 

In my opinion it pays to work out why the system was set up in the first place.
In this instance it was b****r all to do with the McCann case rather a pan Portuguese Criminal Case procedure/process.
The broad process is fairly well delineated in a paper written for the EU Commission by a couple of Portuguese advocados named Caiero and Costa.
Those with rights of access to the files are listed in generic terms. Only the custodians of the full files have any need to cross reference and retrieve.
Even those with rights of access do not have access to all of the files. Any files containing personal information and, NOW HEAR THIS, those containing information not considered to constitute evidence cannot be accessed.
One would presume the MP did not fire off a shedful of CDs buck shot style. The MP would have given them to the generic groups delineated in their own procedures. The question then becomes who was responsible for splattering it all over that t’internet?. One would also presume somewhere the MP kept a document transmittal showing what was sent to whom. Does anyone have a copy of that transmittal ?
IMO tis fanciful to consider that what is retrievable on the net by Joe Public is there as somekind of official missive from the MP.

[G-Unit]

Yes and no problem 

In my opinion it pays to work out why the system was set up in the first place.
In this instance it was b****r all to do with the McCann case rather a pan Portuguese Criminal Case procedure/process.
The broad process is fairly well delineated in a paper written for the EU Commission by a couple of Portuguese advocados named Caiero and Costa.
Those with rights of access to the files are listed in generic terms. Only the custodians of the full files have any need to cross reference and retrieve.
Even those with rights of access do not have access to all of the files. Any files containing personal information and, NOW HEAR THIS, those containing information not considered to constitute evidence cannot be accessed.
One would presume the MP did not fire off a shedful of CDs buck shot style. The MP would have given them to the generic groups delineated in their own procedures. The question then becomes who was responsible for splattering it all over that t’internet?. One would also presume somewhere the MP kept a document transmittal showing what was sent to whom. Does anyone have a copy of that transmittal ?
IMO tis fanciful to consider that what is retrievable on the net by Joe Public is there as somekind of official missive from the MP.

I think it contains what everyone with the correct credentials was allowed to see, including the McCann's lawyers.

[Brietta]

This thread could turn into a treasure trove of information if those finding evidence of missing pieces were to stack them here.

Berry and Balu spring to mind, but there must be many more.

Although Madeleine's case was archived information continued to come in to the Policia Judiciaria; by this time the man in charge being Ricardo Piava.

At the libel trial in 2010 the judge ordered these files to be released to Isobel Duarte, the McCann lawyer.

Snip
Isabel Duarte, the couple’s solicitor, asked to see the police file after Inspector Paiva mentioned it during the court case.

“It is a disgrace that none of this information was given to Kate and Gerry. Some of the photos are shockingly similar to Madeleine.

“Every piece was treated the same way – Ricardo Paiva writes on it ‘this is not relevant to the investigation’.

“I said to him ‘How can you find a person when you are not looking for them?’”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/7353737/Madeleine-McCann-more-than-50-new-leads.html


Any information coming into the investigation post 2008 would be contained in those files Paiva had ... we have little idea what information might have been contained therein, but the files were extensive.
For example just one instance re: telephone traffic ...

Snip
There were some 70,000 calls on the documents provided to the officers but I do not believe they have ever been properly analysed. It would be good if they did that now                   Lawyer Isabel Duarte

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/317111/Madeleine-McCann-The-lost-clues

[Alice Purjorick]

Although Madeleine's case was archived information continued to come in to the Policia Judiciaria; by this time the man in charge being Ricardo Piava.

At the libel trial in 2010 the judge ordered these files to be released to Isobel Duarte, the McCann lawyer.

Snip
Isabel Duarte, the couple’s solicitor, asked to see the police file after Inspector Paiva mentioned it during the court case.

“It is a disgrace that none of this information was given to Kate and Gerry. Some of the photos are shockingly similar to Madeleine.

“Every piece was treated the same way – Ricardo Paiva writes on it ‘this is not relevant to the investigation’.

“I said to him ‘How can you find a person when you are not looking for them?’”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/7353737/Madeleine-McCann-more-than-50-new-leads.html


Any information coming into the investigation post 2008 would be contained in those files Paiva had ... we have little idea what information might have been contained therein, but the files were extensive.
For example just one instance re: telephone traffic ...

Snip
There were some 70,000 calls on the documents provided to the officers but I do not believe they have ever been properly analysed. It would be good if they did that now                   Lawyer Isabel Duarte

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/317111/Madeleine-McCann-The-lost-clues

It is a shame we have no record of Paiva's response...... or do we?

[Robittybob1]

does the process work? 

[Alice Purjorick]

does the process work?

Clearly not if the counsel for the defence is allowed to wander willy nilly through offices looking at documents she has no right of access to and then questioning an investigative officer wtf he thinks he is at.Then on the other hand I'd probably take that tale with a bushel or two of salt, working on the premise the process works until I had incontrovertible evidence it didn't. Incontrovertible in my book being something a bit more substantial than an article in the Daily Telegraph about ONE case in who knows how many.

[Robittybob1]

Clearly not if the counsel for the defence is allowed to wander willy nilly through offices looking at documents she has no right of access to and then questioning an investigative officer wtf he thinks he is at.Then on the other hand I'd probably take that tale with a bushel or two of salt, working on the premise the process works until I had incontrovertible evidence it didn't. Incontrovertible in my book being something a bit more substantial than an article in the Daily Telegraph about ONE case in who knows how many.

You know the situation you are thinking of.  I'm just learning, but if you say someone had to go through 40,000 pages looking for a particular document you would hope they had a very good index system to assist you.