Author Topic: J B Campaign Ltd - Much Ado About Nothing...  (Read 325647 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Caroline

Re: J B Campaign Ltd - Much Ado About Nothing...
« Reply #60 on: December 29, 2015, 11:32:08 PM »
1) That is the approach a lawyer would take but you might have people who don't care about the law who hope the judiciary will stretch things.

2) While technically it should not be entertained again in the courts it could be entertained in a petition for clemency so would not necessarily be a waste if it actually resulted in evidence of Jeremy's innocence. 

Ask yourself why the lawyers who did the last submission didn't wait for more testing before submitting it.  The reason why is they knew more testing would not accomplish anything further.

These claims have no where to go.  There was a hope the courts would be fooled, it failed and that's that.

At the appellate stage of the game you have to come up with evidence that refutes a major leg of the prosecution case. Judges have to be convinced the evidence is reliable and objectively does so.  The crap they are pursuing has no chance of doing that.

They need to be looking at something that refutes drawback would occur and thus the blood had to be planted.  I see little hope of finding anything and no doubt they looked at his angle and found nothing but if you want to undermine the moderator that is what you need to look at again.  Otherwise they have to try to get Julie to recant.  These would be the only things that could get his conviction overturned.

Yes, I did wonder that, it seemed to be the best they had so far and they wasted it.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: J B Campaign Ltd - Much Ado About Nothing...
« Reply #61 on: December 30, 2015, 12:11:50 AM »
Vanezis didn't mention finding a muzzle imprint = he didn't find a muzzle imprint. 

He described the wounds and for the lower one described an entrance wound with a bullet abrasion and dirt ring.  He didn't asses sit to be a contact wound.  If he assessed there was an imprint he would have stated there was a muzzle imprint and that it was a hard contact wound because only hard contact wounds can leave muzzle imprints.

Not only do you keep foolishly raising the nonsense already dismissed by the courts you even keep posting nonsense made up by Mike so there is little chance of you facing reality even when beat over the head with it.  You are running around insisting Cook disassembled the moderator on Aug 29 and took a photo of it and that he thus contaminated it and found no blood so it must have been planted.

What is your evidence to support this wild allegation that you took from Mike?  Mike took a photocopy of a photo received by the defense from COLP it even has a COLP Bates stamp.  According to COLP this photo was taken well after the lab removed the blood from it.  Mike hand wrote on this that it was taken Aug 29 and this doctoring by him is your solitary piece of evidence around which you craft your claims. 

If you are that biased and delusional that you think Mike adding a date to something proves it was taken that date then no wonder you are not able to comprehend why the CCRC and Courts reject the nonsense claims by Fowler and Sutherst.

CAL's book P196:

"Her stomach [SC] contained 'partially digested food'.  Vanezis made no reference to the stomach contents of the other victims, leading to speculation that Sheila might have eaten later than her family.  'I'm sure they all had some food in their stomachs - I noted it for her and took it as read with the others.'

The fact he doesn't mention something doesn't seem to count for much. 

P195 he seems to contradict himself:

"The lower wound on the right side of Sheila's throat showed bruising and residue marks and was the first to have been innflicted".

"The upper wound, just beneath Sheila's chin, was smallerwith firearm reside and slight bruising."

The above from 85/86.

CAL's interview:

"Both injuries were 'very loose' contact wounds, lacking the associated grazing and distribution of residue within the skin from full contact wounds".

Oh Scipio help a damsel in distress  8)><(

Dr V:

"You never know what you're going to find and we didn't see a large number of firearm cases at the time, so a ballistics expert was essential.  We don't always take gunshot residues at post-motem and I could have deferred to him [sexist] on that issue, as well as the range of fire, the calibre of the bullet etc".

VERY WORRYING

Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Admin

Re: J B Campaign Ltd - Much Ado About Nothing...
« Reply #62 on: December 30, 2015, 02:28:15 AM »
I agree.  I suggested this to JB ages ago.  I guess they might post under usernames but I don't see any evidence of this.

I'll email the CT and see if they are up for it.  I'll send a copy to JB too. 

As Delia Smith said to the Norwich City fans:

"Where are you"?

"Lets be having you"

"Come on"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_8JLkwzpd0

 ?>)()<

Seriously Trudi and the CT how's about it?  We can agree certain rules beforehand with an equal number of moderators from both camps to ensure the event is a success for all concerned.

I like your style Holly and fair play to you for holding your own but I fear the campaign team would not enter into such a public debate for so many reasons.  I could be wrong though, nothing ventured, nothing gained.  &%+((£
« Last Edit: January 03, 2016, 10:04:10 PM by John »

Offline scipio_usmc

Re: J B Campaign Ltd - Much Ado About Nothing...
« Reply #63 on: December 30, 2015, 03:15:00 AM »
CAL's book P196:

"Her stomach [SC] contained 'partially digested food'.  Vanezis made no reference to the stomach contents of the other victims, leading to speculation that Sheila might have eaten later than her family.  'I'm sure they all had some food in their stomachs - I noted it for her and took it as read with the others.'

The fact he doesn't mention something doesn't seem to count for much.

There was no need to mention the food in the stomachs.  In describing the wounds it would be not only pertinent but extremely pertinent if a muzzle imprint had been found.  The defense had heir own experts and none of them found any evidence of a muzzle imprint.  A muzzle imprint only happens when there is a hard contact wound so had he noticed it then he would have assessed the lower wound to be a hard contact wound as a result.

P195 he seems to contradict himself:

"The lower wound on the right side of Sheila's throat showed bruising and residue marks and was the first to have been innflicted".

"The upper wound, just beneath Sheila's chin, was smallerwith firearm reside and slight bruising."

The above from 85/86.

CAL's interview:

"Both injuries were 'very loose' contact wounds, lacking the associated grazing and distribution of residue within the skin from full contact wounds".

Oh Scipio help a damsel in distress  8)><(

He contradicted himself by saying both were contact wounds though he assessed at the time tha tthe lower wound was a near contact wound.

He spoke to CAL how many years later.  His memory is faulty which is why accounts long after are treated with so much skepticism.  If he was given all the documents to review then asked about them to see what he remembers that is one thing but when you ask someone 30 years later to just recall everything it is invariably not going to end up fully accurate.  Look what happened to PC West, he testified a year later and he already could not remember so much. His assessments at the time are treated as the record.

I know you are asking what he is talking about.  The residue he is referring to is from the powder.  In  a hard contact wound the powder has no where to go except inside the wound and the powder will be inside the entrance wound itself.  It will form a ring around the inside of the wound and also often be found in surrounding tissue inside because all the powder expelled from the weapon goes inside.

The gases will tear the skin in a hard contact wound that is also something he says was lacking. In a loose contact some of the powder residue will ring the outside edge of the entrance wound and some powder and gases will escape through the sides so it won't all be propelled into the wound and won't be propelled as deep into the wound.  With a near contact wound there is a dirt ring around the outside of the entrance wound.  It will extend further outside than the ring from a loose contact wound.  Once you get beyond near contact the powder is much less condensed and instead of a nice tight ring you get what looks like tiny grain.  The further away the shot the more dispersed this will be until finally being too far away for any of it to hit. 

To the naked eye from the outside a distant shot and hard contact shot look very similar because there is no powder obvious in either case.  The distant shot no powder reached.  The hard contact shot it is all inside so you need to look at the inner tissue.

So Vanezis is saying that the powder distribution is different than if it were a hard contact wound and the bruising is different.  The bruising that existed outside the entrance wound was from the bullet aka a bullet abrasion as opposed to the kind of tearing you get from a hard contact wound.

Poke your finger into a fatty area of your body.  Notice how not only touches the very tip of your finger but beds around your finger so that it touches some of the side as well.  It does this will a bullet except a bullet is spinning so it bruises the skin as it touches. So the very outside of the entrance wound will have abraded skin.  In a contact wound the bullet doesn't do this because it is fired directly against the skin so the surrounding skin doesn't get a chance to touch. He obviously forgot that he assessed the lower wound was a near contact wound.

Since a muzzle imprint can only happen with a hard contact wound and he said they were not hard contact wounds that means it is not possible for Fowler's claims of the lower wound having a muzzle imprint to be possible.  Since the photos show no muzzle imprint and Vanazis didn't assess there to be a muzzle imprint it is a nonstarter really.   
 


Dr V:

"You never know what you're going to find and we didn't see a large number of firearm cases at the time, so a ballistics expert was essential.  We don't always take gunshot residues at post-motem and I could have deferred to him [sexist] on that issue, as well as the range of fire, the calibre of the bullet etc".

VERY WORRYING

I have repeatedly noted his expertise with guns was practically nonexistent and his expertise with gunshot wounds somewhat limited which is why he didn't recognize the butt of the rifle caused Nevill's injuries save the cracking of his skull but recognizing the butt cracked his skull is no big feat a monkey could recognize that.

In this case Vanezis wrote his report then the ballistic expert made his assessments after. If the expert made his assessments right away the report would have been a lot better at some things.  For instance the angle of the lower shot being an angle that doesn't fit suicide.  The ballistic experts reviewed the photos and his medical observations and basically agree with him with respect to the bullet wound assessments so there was no harm in that regard.  They got lucky it was not more complex with multiple weapons and so forth. 

 

 
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: J B Campaign Ltd - Much Ado About Nothing...
« Reply #64 on: December 30, 2015, 09:28:20 PM »
There was no need to mention the food in the stomachs.  In describing the wounds it would be not only pertinent but extremely pertinent if a muzzle imprint had been found.  The defense had heir own experts and none of them found any evidence of a muzzle imprint.  A muzzle imprint only happens when there is a hard contact wound so had he noticed it then he would have assessed the lower wound to be a hard contact wound as a result.

He contradicted himself by saying both were contact wounds though he assessed at the time tha tthe lower wound was a near contact wound.

He spoke to CAL how many years later.  His memory is faulty which is why accounts long after are treated with so much skepticism.  If he was given all the documents to review then asked about them to see what he remembers that is one thing but when you ask someone 30 years later to just recall everything it is invariably not going to end up fully accurate.  Look what happened to PC West, he testified a year later and he already could not remember so much. His assessments at the time are treated as the record.

I know you are asking what he is talking about.  The residue he is referring to is from the powder.  In  a hard contact wound the powder has no where to go except inside the wound and the powder will be inside the entrance wound itself.  It will form a ring around the inside of the wound and also often be found in surrounding tissue inside because all the powder expelled from the weapon goes inside.

The gases will tear the skin in a hard contact wound that is also something he says was lacking. In a loose contact some of the powder residue will ring the outside edge of the entrance wound and some powder and gases will escape through the sides so it won't all be propelled into the wound and won't be propelled as deep into the wound.  With a near contact wound there is a dirt ring around the outside of the entrance wound.  It will extend further outside than the ring from a loose contact wound.  Once you get beyond near contact the powder is much less condensed and instead of a nice tight ring you get what looks like tiny grain.  The further away the shot the more dispersed this will be until finally being too far away for any of it to hit. 

To the naked eye from the outside a distant shot and hard contact shot look very similar because there is no powder obvious in either case.  The distant shot no powder reached.  The hard contact shot it is all inside so you need to look at the inner tissue.

So Vanezis is saying that the powder distribution is different than if it were a hard contact wound and the bruising is different.  The bruising that existed outside the entrance wound was from the bullet aka a bullet abrasion as opposed to the kind of tearing you get from a hard contact wound.

Poke your finger into a fatty area of your body.  Notice how not only touches the very tip of your finger but beds around your finger so that it touches some of the side as well.  It does this will a bullet except a bullet is spinning so it bruises the skin as it touches. So the very outside of the entrance wound will have abraded skin.  In a contact wound the bullet doesn't do this because it is fired directly against the skin so the surrounding skin doesn't get a chance to touch. He obviously forgot that he assessed the lower wound was a near contact wound.

Since a muzzle imprint can only happen with a hard contact wound and he said they were not hard contact wounds that means it is not possible for Fowler's claims of the lower wound having a muzzle imprint to be possible.  Since the photos show no muzzle imprint and Vanazis didn't assess there to be a muzzle imprint it is a nonstarter really.   
 

I have repeatedly noted his expertise with guns was practically nonexistent and his expertise with gunshot wounds somewhat limited which is why he didn't recognize the butt of the rifle caused Nevill's injuries save the cracking of his skull but recognizing the butt cracked his skull is no big feat a monkey could recognize that.

In this case Vanezis wrote his report then the ballistic expert made his assessments after. If the expert made his assessments right away the report would have been a lot better at some things.  For instance the angle of the lower shot being an angle that doesn't fit suicide.  The ballistic experts reviewed the photos and his medical observations and basically agree with him with respect to the bullet wound assessments so there was no harm in that regard.  They got lucky it was not more complex with multiple weapons and so forth.

I don't have any and I'm not fattist but I know someone who should be able to help 8)-)))  I run about 50 miles a week and spend 30 mins most days lifting weights which I've done for years.  Some might think it's vain but I see it as a necessity from the way humans have evolved from cave woman to modern woman with sedentary lifestyles and an abundance of readily available calorie rich food. 

Anyway thanks for all the info Scipio I will have to think about it as it's not an aspect of the case I'm familiar with.  Who knows you might convert me but I wouldn't hold your breath  8((()*/
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline scipio_usmc

Re: J B Campaign Ltd - Much Ado About Nothing...
« Reply #65 on: December 30, 2015, 09:42:06 PM »
I don't have any and I'm not fattist but I know someone who should be able to help 8)-)))  I run about 50 miles a week and spend 30 mins most days lifting weights which I've done for years.  Some might think it's vain but I see it as a necessity from the way humans have evolved from cave woman to modern woman with sedentary lifestyles and an abundance of readily available calorie rich food. 

Anyway thanks for all the info Scipio I will have to think about it as it's not an aspect of the case I'm familiar with.  Who knows you might convert me but I wouldn't hold your breath  8((()*/

What do you use that bra for?  You must have boobs.  They will work far better than any other ear of the boxy for the demonstration purposes. I don't have manboobs yet so the best I can find to do it is my arm.
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline Myster

Re: J B Campaign Ltd - Much Ado About Nothing...
« Reply #66 on: December 30, 2015, 09:49:30 PM »
ear of the boxy?  Take it easy scipio and slow down the typing. We can't have you becoming as incomprehensible as gungun!
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: J B Campaign Ltd - Much Ado About Nothing...
« Reply #67 on: December 30, 2015, 10:04:02 PM »
What do you use that bra for?  You must have boobs.  They will work far better than any other ear of the boxy for the demonstration purposes. I don't have manboobs yet so the best I can find to do it is my arm.

Hehehe I understood what you meant anyway from a previous post:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6045.msg221392#msg221392

See I do read your posts!

Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: J B Campaign Ltd - Much Ado About Nothing...
« Reply #68 on: December 30, 2015, 10:30:26 PM »
The following invitation has been sent to JB's campaign team with a copy to JB via the email a prisoner system:

Dear Campaign Team: Trudi, Pat, Yvonne, Sarah, Heidi, Lorna and Matt

INVITATION TO A DEBATING SESSION @ THE UK JUSTICE FORUM
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php

Following Trudi's recent videos we would like to invite you to join in a debating session on the UK Justice Forum at a mutually agreed time.  If you accept we will ensure the session is properly managed with an equal numbers of moderators from both camps: guilty and innocent.  We can also agree on a format ie Q&A, one open thread or a set number of threads to discuss particular aspects of the case, perhaps 3 of your choosing and a further 3 chosen by members of the forum?  I prefer the latter option as I think it will be easier to manage and moderate.

If you agree and the session is a success we could look to arrange further sessions by inviting other interested parties to join in/view eg law firms and the media. 

I hope you will agree that healthy debate can highlight strengths and weaknesses in the case for and against and will consider the invitation.

Kind regards

Holly
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline scipio_usmc

Re: J B Campaign Ltd - Much Ado About Nothing...
« Reply #69 on: December 30, 2015, 11:11:39 PM »
ear of the boxy?  Take it easy scipio and slow down the typing. We can't have you becoming as incomprehensible as gungun!

For those not fluent in typo- area of the body.
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline John

Re: J B Campaign Ltd - Much Ado About Nothing...
« Reply #70 on: December 31, 2015, 01:10:04 PM »
The following invitation has been sent to JB's campaign team with a copy to JB via the email a prisoner system:

Dear Campaign Team: Trudi, Pat, Yvonne, Sarah, Heidi, Lorna and Matt

INVITATION TO A DEBATING SESSION @ THE UK JUSTICE FORUM
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php

Following Trudi's recent videos we would like to invite you to join in a debating session on the UK Justice Forum at a mutually agreed time.  If you accept we will ensure the session is properly managed with an equal numbers of moderators from both camps: guilty and innocent.  We can also agree on a format ie Q&A, one open thread or a set number of threads to discuss particular aspects of the case, perhaps 3 of your choosing and a further 3 chosen by members of the forum?  I prefer the latter option as I think it will be easier to manage and moderate.

If you agree and the session is a success we could look to arrange further sessions by inviting other interested parties to join in/view eg law firms and the media. 

I hope you will agree that healthy debate can highlight strengths and weaknesses in the case for and against and will consider the invitation.

Kind regards

Holly


It will be interesting to hear what Jeremy responds with if anything.  Have you considered sending him a set of questions generated by members here?
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Myster

Re: J B Campaign Ltd - Much Ado About Nothing...
« Reply #71 on: December 31, 2015, 01:36:35 PM »
Even more interesting will be Essex Police response to his open letter, which I predict will be on the lines of...

Dear Jeremy,

Thank you for your letter of the 7th. inst.

Please stop pestering us for documents we don't have, because you've already got the bl**dy lot!

Happy New Year!
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline John

Re: J B Campaign Ltd - Much Ado About Nothing...
« Reply #72 on: December 31, 2015, 01:42:47 PM »
Even more interesting will be Essex Police response to his open letter, which I predict will be on the lines of...

Dear Jeremy,

Thank you for your letter of the 7th. inst.

Please stop pestering us for documents we don't have, because you've already got the bl**dy lot!

Happy New Year!


Actually it will be two words...Mike's favourite two.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline puglove

Re: J B Campaign Ltd - Much Ado About Nothing...
« Reply #73 on: December 31, 2015, 04:33:52 PM »
Actually it will be two words...Mike's favourite two.

 @)(++(*
Jeremy Bamber kicked Mike Tesko in the fanny.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: J B Campaign Ltd - Much Ado About Nothing...
« Reply #74 on: December 31, 2015, 06:07:46 PM »
It will be interesting to hear what Jeremy responds with if anything.  Have you considered sending him a set of questions generated by members here?

That's a possibility I guess.  I've never asked him anything of significance as I take the view if he's innocent he's unlikely to know anything of significance that I don't know or couldn't find out.  Plus, although he seems ok, I suspect he suffers somewhat mentally with anxiety, depression, paranoia etc.  He has never even alluded to anything of this nature just my own thoughts.  Difficult to see how it could be otherwise if he's innocent given what he has been through over 30 years.  Even if he's guilty 30 years incarcerated must surely have taken its toll.

I can't even think of anything that I would want to ask him case related.  I can think of lots of questions I would like to ask the various experts: Dr Vanezis, Dr Ferguson, Glynnis Howard, Malcolm Fletcher, John Hayward (deceased), Mark Webster, Dr Lincloln and many others.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?