J B Campaign Ltd - Much Ado About Nothing...

[John]

Dr Craig, a police surgeon with some 30 years experience at the time of the WHF case, certified the deaths as follows:

38. At 8.10 a.m., Dr Craig attended the scene to formally certify the deaths. In cross-examination at the trial he said the deaths could have occurred at any time during the previous night.  The appearance of Sheila Caffell's body suggested to him that the wounds had been inflicted by her own hand. In answer to the judge the witness made it clear this was not an opinion the jury should rely upon as a true indication that the injuries had been self-inflicted.

If SC shot herself shortly before or after the raid team entered then the signs would be obvious.  SC would be in a completely different state than the other victims and she wasn't.  I would suggest supporters that persist with claims that SC was alive and seen in the kitchen shortly before the raid team broke in and/or the police shot SC are cranks.

As SC's gunshot wounds were contact this can act as a natural suppressor reducing the sound of gunshot.  So it might be possible SC shot herself whilst the police/JB stood outside at circa 4am and the shots went unheard.

"In many cases, the body's absorption of the muzzle blast will act as a suppressor, trapping the propellant gases under the skin and muffling the sound of the shot".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contact_shot

I only wish someone could reenact the shooting oneself in the neck twice using a .22 rifle if only to reveal that Sheila could never have done it and ended up as she did.

[Myster]

I only wish someone could reenact the shooting oneself in the neck twice using a .22 rifle if only to reveal that Sheila could never have done it and ended up as she did.

I don't think Holly would be prepared to go that far... or would she?  &%+((£

[david1819]

I only wish someone could reenact the shooting oneself in the neck twice using a .22 rifle if only to reveal that Sheila could never have done it and ended up as she did.

No need, I have something even better. Below is an autopsy image of man who shot himself in the neck four times! with a similar weapon. So no more excuses she cant have shot herself twice 

[Holly Goodhead]

I only wish someone could reenact the shooting oneself in the neck twice using a .22 rifle if only to reveal that Sheila could never have done it and ended up as she did.

But if it was so obvious I don't understand why the likes of Dr Craig, police surgeon, with 30 years experience at the time, Chief Supt Harris and Dr Vanezis all called it wrong.

[Holly Goodhead]

No need, I have something even better. Below is an autopsy image of man who shot himself in the neck four times! with a similar weapon. So no more excuses she cant have shot herself twice 

I think John is also referring to SC's overall state eg clean looking with intact nails etc.

[Holly Goodhead]

I don't think Holly would be prepared to go that far... or would she?  &%+((£

We know from Dr V it was physiologically possible hence he was unable to say murder or suicide.

[Myster]

Yet another boring, old Vlog with the well-worn "Jeremy is innocent because he's... errrm, innocent"...

[Holly Goodhead]

Troods said last week she was struggling to find time to do any housework.  Perhaps that was a hint to her fellow campaigners.  Hope you used the time wisely Troods and put Kim and Aggie to shame!

Nearly four months worth of Vlogs and only one relating to the forensics which doesn't fill me with confidence as far as donations and forensic testing go.  I guess there's nothing to stop anyone commissioning their own tests on JB's behalf   &%+((£

[Myster]

Troods said last week she was struggling to find time to do any housework.  Perhaps that was a hint to her fellow campaigners.  Hope you used the time wisely Troods and put Kim and Aggie to shame!

Nearly four months worth of Vlogs and only one relating to the forensics which doesn't fill me with confidence as far as donations and forensic testing go.  I guess there's nothing to stop anyone commissioning their own tests on JB's behalf   &%+((£

Well stop beating around the bush and put your money where your mouth is! That's two cliches for the price of one... or should that be three?

They'll be keeping schtum about reaching the £10,000 target. Some rich donor with more brass than sense will have filled their coffers already.

[scipio_usmc]

We know from Dr V it was physiologically possible hence he was unable to say murder or suicide.

Vanezis simply said it is possible she didn't die from the first and could have pulled the second from a medical standpoint.

John's question is about her position. Vanezis did not attempt to figure out if she could have ended up in the position she did.  He failed to evaluate the blood evidence and thus to recognize she was dragged flat after she was dead. He left this to the blood experts who also failed to pick up on it until the appeal stage.  Only at the appeal stage did the prosecution light bulb come on.  The Appeal Court said too bad for them they should have recognized it sooner and raised it at the trial.

If there were a retrial the prosecution could and would raise it.  All the Appeal Court ruling meant is that in order for the defense to get a new trial it doesn't have to refute such blood evidence it just has to refute the evidence used at trial. At the appeal stage new evidence cuts both ways.  When the defense is using new evidence to appeal and there is new evidence that was discovered post verdict by the prosecution which could not have been discovered at the time of trial using due diligence that corroborates guilt then the defense has to overcome that in addition to everything used at trial. Consider someone trying to appeal a long term rape murder conviction asking for a DNA test and the DNA matches. To successfully appeal they not only must overcome the evidence used at trial but now have the added burden of the DNA to overcome.

Nemerous experts say she was moved after she died including MacDonnell but John wishes testing were done to confirm things. 

[david1819]

Nemerous experts say she was moved after she died including MacDonnell but John wishes testing were done to confirm things.

I was thinking the other day, if I could get a replica of the dress maybe simple experiments could be carried out?

[Holly Goodhead]

Vanezis simply said it is possible she didn't die from the first and could have pulled the second from a medical standpoint.

John's question is about her position. Vanezis did not attempt to figure out if she could have ended up in the position she did.  He failed to evaluate the blood evidence and thus to recognize she was dragged flat after she was dead. He left this to the blood experts who also failed to pick up on it until the appeal stage.  Only at the appeal stage did the prosecution light bulb come on.  The Appeal Court said too bad for them they should have recognized it sooner and raised it at the trial.

If there were a retrial the prosecution could and would raise it.  All the Appeal Court ruling meant is that in order for the defense to get a new trial it doesn't have to refute such blood evidence it just has to refute the evidence used at trial. At the appeal stage new evidence cuts both ways.  When the defense is using new evidence to appeal and there is new evidence that was discovered post verdict by the prosecution which could not have been discovered at the time of trial using due diligence that corroborates guilt then the defense has to overcome that in addition to everything used at trial. Consider someone trying to appeal a long term rape murder conviction asking for a DNA test and the DNA matches. To successfully appeal they not only must overcome the evidence used at trial but now have the added burden of the DNA to overcome.

Nemerous experts say she was moved after she died including MacDonnell but John wishes testing were done to confirm things.

I accept that Dr Vanezis did not see SC in situ but Dr Craig did, police surgeon with 30 years experience, along with numerous police officers with hundreds of years combined experience.  If it was so obvious SC could not have murdered her family and taken her own life why wasn't it apparent to any of these individuals?  DS Jones was the only early dissenter and according to Dr Vanezis he was unable to offer anything of evidential value.

I was looking for an old post re Chief Sup George Harris who atteneded the scene and observed SC in situ.  I've located the post and link which contained Chief Sup George Harris' bio in an Essex Police newspaper.  However the bio has now disappeared; it looks like it has been covered over?  I'm 100% certain it was there when I posted the link.  The whole purpose of posting the link was to show his high profile background.  Are we being spied on?  And why would someone want to cover over Chief Sup George Harris' bio? 

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6386.msg252540#msg252540

Who are the numerous experts stating SC was moved post death and pre raid team entering?  Any subsequent opinion from experts will not have the benefit of observing SC in situ unlike Dr Craig and the numerous police officers. 

Who are the blood experts you are referring to above?

[Holly Goodhead]

I was thinking the other day, if I could get a replica of the dress maybe simple experiments could be carried out?

Does it have to be a replica?  It looks like a simple nightdress and anyone modelling it will not have SC's exact measurements.  No I'm not acting as a model while you manipulate me like a rag doll and in any event I'm about 3" shorter than SC. 

Can we rule out the raid team moving SC to access the box room from the main bedroom and/or Crispy jumping up and moving her nightidress? 

[Holly Goodhead]

I accept that Dr Vanezis did not see SC in situ but Dr Craig did, police surgeon with 30 years experience, along with numerous police officers with hundreds of years combined experience.  If it was so obvious SC could not have murdered her family and taken her own life why wasn't it apparent to any of these individuals?  DS Jones was the only early dissenter and according to Dr Vanezis he was unable to offer anything of evidential value.

I was looking for an old post re Chief Sup George Harris who atteneded the scene and observed SC in situ.  I've located the post and link which contained Chief Sup George Harris' bio in an Essex Police newspaper.  However the bio has now disappeared; it looks like it has been covered over?  I'm 100% certain it was there when I posted the link.  The whole purpose of posting the link was to show his high profile background.  Are we being spied on?  And why would someone want to cover over Chief Sup George Harris' bio? 

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6386.msg252540#msg252540

Who are the numerous experts stating SC was moved post death and pre raid team entering?  Any subsequent opinion from experts will not have the benefit of observing SC in situ unlike Dr Craig and the numerous police officers. 

Who are the blood experts you are referring to above?

I forgot to add Chief Sup George Harris' bio was at the bottom of page 3

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6386.msg252540#msg252540

http://www.essex.police.uk/museum/thelaw/n_8306lw.pdf

This has really intrigued me now.  Is it just a coincidence it was removed due to some unrelated matter or was it in connection with the above?  If the latter why? 

[david1819]

Does it have to be a replica?  It looks like a simple nightdress and anyone modelling it will not have SC's exact measurements.  No I'm not acting as a model while you manipulate me like a rag doll and in any event I'm about 3" shorter than SC. 

Yes it would have to be a replica otherwise you would get crude results. I believe the dress is Vanity Fair Victory Nightie.

I know a few girls that do modelling but I'm not sure if they would be too keen on this. But first thing is first we would have to get hold a replica dress then see what can be done.