J B Campaign Ltd - Much Ado About Nothing...

[Myster]

I forgot to add Chief Sup George Harris' bio was at the bottom of page 3

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6386.msg252540#msg252540

http://www.essex.police.uk/museum/thelaw/n_8306lw.pdf

This has really intrigued me now.  Is it just a coincidence it was removed due to some unrelated matter or was it in connection with the above?  If the latter why?

Spooky!  Just looked at other copies of "The Law" featuring CS George Harris and they're also blank.

[Holly Goodhead]

Spooky!  Just looked at other copies of "The Law" featuring CS George Harris and they're also blank.

Yes I found that too  &%+((£ 

I found the following where he's guest speaker.  The Secretary promotes the fact he was involved in the Jeremy Bamber murder enquiry and was in charge of Royal visits to Essex:

http://www.marconi-veterans.org/?p=1123

[david1819]

Yes it would have to be a replica otherwise you would get crude results. I believe the dress is Vanity Fair Victory Nightie.

I know a few girls that do modelling but I'm not sure if they would be too keen on this. But first thing is first we would have to get hold a replica dress then see what can be done.

I Believe it is this, These are vintage replicas. the dress was available in Purple, Light Blue and Black

[Holly Goodhead]

I Believe it is this, These are vintage replicas. the dress was available in Purple, Light Blue and Black

But the neckline and hem are different.  The neckline on SC's nightdress has a frill of sorts and the hem doesn't have the satin finish. 

[Holly Goodhead]

But the neckline and hem are different.  The neckline on SC's nightdress has a frill of sorts and the hem doesn't have the satin finish.

And there's no yoke!  I think that's what you call it?  The seams that cut across the bust?  SC's nightie was seamless.

[david1819]

But the neckline and hem are different.  The neckline on SC's nightdress has a frill of sorts and the hem doesn't have the satin finish.

I know what you are saying but the CS photos can be misleading. I could be wrong, but remember the replicas are not going to be 100%

[Harry]

Vanezis simply said it is possible she didn't die from the first and could have pulled the second from a medical standpoint.

John's question is about her position. Vanezis did not attempt to figure out if she could have ended up in the position she did.  He failed to evaluate the blood evidence and thus to recognize she was dragged flat after she was dead. He left this to the blood experts who also failed to pick up on it until the appeal stage.  Only at the appeal stage did the prosecution light bulb come on.  The Appeal Court said too bad for them they should have recognized it sooner and raised it at the trial.

If there were a retrial the prosecution could and would raise it.  All the Appeal Court ruling meant is that in order for the defense to get a new trial it doesn't have to refute such blood evidence it just has to refute the evidence used at trial. At the appeal stage new evidence cuts both ways.  When the defense is using new evidence to appeal and there is new evidence that was discovered post verdict by the prosecution which could not have been discovered at the time of trial using due diligence that corroborates guilt then the defense has to overcome that in addition to everything used at trial. Consider someone trying to appeal a long term rape murder conviction asking for a DNA test and the DNA matches. To successfully appeal they not only must overcome the evidence used at trial but now have the added burden of the DNA to overcome.

Nemerous experts say she was moved after she died including MacDonnell but John wishes testing were done to confirm things.

The police definitely moved Sheila's body as can be seen in this comparison of photographs at Injustice Anywhere. Unfortunately you can't see the modified photo there without logging in, so I saved it, then uploaded it to a hosting site.

http://www.injusticeanywhereforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=162716&sid=c49300c968bec7d57e25ea427592ad63#p162700

[Myster]

The police definitely moved Sheila's body as can be seen in this comparison of photographs at Injustice Anywhere. Unfortunately you can't see the modified photo there without logging in, so I saved it, then uploaded it to a hosting site.

http://www.injusticeanywhereforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=162716&sid=c49300c968bec7d57e25ea427592ad63#p162700

Nope... that's another myth generated by the CT which needs dismissing once and for all.  The only movement of the body, if it was ever moved before being taken to the mortuary, was by Bamber himself. Photos can be deceptive and those above were taken from different positions, the first from towards the foot end of the bed, the second from the head end. The height of the camera above the floor might also have changed with each photo, maybe only slightly but enough to make a difference between the two.  Obviously, the arm has been moved but this was admitted to by DI Ron Cook at trial and that was only in order to examine the stains on Sheila Caffell's hands and nightdress...



Look at the difference a simple reorientation of the first photograph makes to show that no movement took place, noting also how the direction of the chequered upholstery pattern of the bed changes...

[APRIL]

I Believe it is this, These are vintage replicas. the dress was available in Purple, Light Blue and Black

Sheila's nightdress was cotton -LAWN if it was up market- and the one you're showing appears to be nylon. I'm inclined to think the garment she was wearing may have been an M&S which was one of June's. It doesn't look like the sort of thing a modern young woman would have worn.

[Harry]

Nope... that's another myth generated by the CT which needs dismissing once and for all.  The only movement of the body, if it was ever moved before being taken to the mortuary, was by Bamber himself. Photos can be deceptive and those above were taken from different positions, the first from towards the foot end of the bed, the second from the head end. The height of the camera above the floor might also have changed with each photo, maybe only slightly but enough to make a difference between the two.  Obviously, the arm has been moved but this was admitted to by DI Ron Cook at trial and that was only in order to examine the stains on Sheila Caffell's hands and nightdress...



Look at the difference a simple reorientation of the first photograph makes to show that no movement took place, noting also how the direction of the chequered upholstery pattern of the bed changes...

Just take the black line on the left which starts from a large blood spot and passes through the socks. In the photograph on the left it crosses Sheila's thighs about six inches below the hem of her night dress. In the photo on the right it crosses at the same level as the hem on her dress. The blood spots have not moved and the socks have not been moved. Only Sheila's body has been moved.

You can also tell that the bible has been moved. In the photo on the right it has been placed closer to the socks. 

But there's no room for argument on this one. You either see it or you don't.

[david1819]

Just take the black line on the left which starts from a large blood spot and passes through the socks. In the photograph on the left it crosses Sheila's thighs about six inches below the hem of her night dress. In the photo on the right it crosses at the same level as the hem on her dress. The blood spots have not moved and the socks have not been moved. Only Sheila's body has been moved.

But there's no room for argument on this one. You either see it or you don't.

The pictures you are looking at are very misleading they don't prove anything, I can explain more in detail later why. However we know the body has been moved because the police first on the scene disagree with the crime scene photos, This is evident in the notes of an early investigation



The most probably scenario would be, While a police officer walks through the box room and then proceeds to open the door to the main bedroom, the door pushes the bible towards Shelia and also moves Shelia's body somewhat, The officer not knowing what he has done until he walks past the door.

[Harry]

The pictures you are looking at are very misleading they don't prove anything, I can explain more in detail later why. However we know the body has been moved because the police first on the scene disagree with the crime scene photos, This is evident in the notes of an early investigation



The most probably scenario would be, While a police officer walks through the box room and then proceeds to open the door to the main bedroom, the door pushes the bible towards Shelia and also moves Shelia's body somewhat, The officer not knowing what he has done until he walks past the door.

I would like you to explain why you think those lines crossing the body at a different level in the two pictures don't prove anything and why you think they are misleading. To me it's as plain as day that the police moved the body along the floor. I've heard it suggested that it's all down to a change in the camera angle. But those blood spots are on the floor. The change wouldn't make much difference if any.

I don't know what your new evidence is, but I hope it doesn't rest on assuming where the bible was first found. It is possible that at some point the police might admit to moving Sheila's body, but emphasize that it does not prove Bamber is innocent. In fact, John Lamberton has expressed that view.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=36.msg16747#msg16747

[Harry]

The pictures you are looking at are very misleading they don't prove anything, I can explain more in detail later why. However we know the body has been moved because the police first on the scene disagree with the crime scene photos, This is evident in the notes of an early investigation



The most probably scenario would be, While a police officer walks through the box room and then proceeds to open the door to the main bedroom, the door pushes the bible towards Shelia and also moves Shelia's body somewhat, The officer not knowing what he has done until he walks past the door.

You're not thinking logically, David. The photos show that the body was moved between frames, not before any pictures were taken.

Secondly, it has been moved by about half a foot and that would have taken a good deal of effort. It would not be like just accidentally catching the bible with your foot or something like that.

I have noticed that a number of astute observers agree. Clive Wismayer at Injustice Anywhere and Reader at Bamber forum to name a couple of them. Clive suggests that Bamber's defence, at the 2002 Appeal, missed a great opportunity to prove that the police moved Sheila's body.

http://www.injusticeanywhereforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=162716&sid=c49300c968bec7d57e25ea427592ad63#p162716

[Myster]

Contrary to what you may think, it would would take very little effort to move a woman's body of average weight dressed only in a skimpy nightie by a short distance, simply by getting hold of both ankles and pulling. The type of nightie material itself may also help by reducing friction with the carpet.

The point however is this... what difference to Bamber's conviction would the police moving Sheila's body a paltry six inches or so make, say to allow closer examination of the neck wounds because her head was jammed up against the bedside cabinet so they couldn't at first be seen?  Absolutely none!

[Harry]

Contrary to what you may think, it would would take very little effort to move a woman's body of average weight dressed only in a skimpy nightie by a short distance, simply by getting hold of both ankles and pulling. The type of nightie material itself may also help by reducing friction with the carpet.

The point however is this... what difference to Bamber's conviction would the police moving Sheila's body a paltry six inches or so make, say to allow closer examination of the neck wounds because her head was jammed up against the bedside cabinet so they couldn't at first be seen?  Absolutely none!

I admit it does not prove Bamber is innocent, but certain other arguments are tied up with it. Evidence that the body was moved after death have been used as proof that Sheila could not have killed herself. But if it is evident that the police moved the body, that argument falls down.