Author Topic: "Please come over..."  (Read 9519 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Holly Goodhead

"Please come over..."
« on: November 29, 2014, 12:52:34 PM »
I firmly believe NB did call JB on that fateful morning of 7th August 1985.  However I am less sure that he used the words "Please come over..."

JB's WS dated 7th August 1985 : "Sheilas gone crazy she has got a gun"

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5631.0;attach=4566

MB's Log dated 7th August 1985 : "Daughter gone beserk" "Daugher Sheila Bamber aged 26 years has got hold of one of my guns"

(Sheila was in fact Sheila Caffell aged 28 years at the time of the tragedy)

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=177.0;attach=423

SM's WS dated 15th August 1985 : "Your sister has gone beserk and she has got a gun"

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5638.0;attach=4589

AE's WS dated 8th September 1985 : "Sheila has got the gun she has gone crazy"

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1053.0;attach=2189

AE's WS is particularly interesting as AE states that JB made reference to "She's got the gun" in the presence of the police and they queried it. JB then corrected himself by saying "Sheila has got the gun she has gone crazy"

The COA document 2002 states the following:

7. The police were first alerted that something out of the ordinary had occurred when they received a telephone call from the appellant. The call was logged at 3.36 a.m. but there was evidence that made clear that it must have been at least 10 minutes earlier. The caller was the appellant and having given his name and address he said:

"You've got to help me. My father has rang me and said "Please come over. Your sister has gone crazy and has got the gun." Then the line went dead."

JB's audio clip in the Daily Mirror dated 31st January 2011 : "Please come over your sister has gone crazy and has the gun"

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/the-jeremy-bamber-files-exclusive-audio-191151

I know the trial testimony of some witnesses makes reference to "Please come over" but I haven't had a chance to go through them yet.  West's trial testimony makes reference to "Please come over".  To my mind he is the weak link in the communication chain.  Firstly it was agreed by all concerned that he recorded the time incorrectly.  Secondly it is clear from his trial testimony that he uses different words and in different sequences when referring to JB's tel con.  I assume West made a WS but it isn't available here?  It would be interesting to see what he says in that.

Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Myster

Re: "Please come over..."
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2014, 01:44:32 PM »
Why are you questioning those three little words NB is supposed to have said when you can hear it straight from the horse's mouth?  It can't be any plainer than...

... said Goodnight to everybody, got in my car, drove home. And I guess it was about 10pm by this time. I rang Julie... had a hot drink, I don't-I don't think I had anything to eat and I had a quick bath and watched TV 'till about midnight. At around 3.15/3.30 I was woken up by the phone and I only had one in my house and that was by the kitchen door downstairs. And when I answered it I recognised dad's voice and he said "Please come over... your sister has gone crazy and has the gun" .

The call ended, although, I don't recall specifically hearing the dial tone, but I was still half asleep, I'd only just woken up to hear this, and so I rang dad back 'cause I thought you know I need more information.. what, where, how, you know what do you need me to do, how can I... and I specifically remember getting the engaged tone because I then pressed the last number redial at least twice more and both times got the engaged tone... and that's when I rang the police.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/the-jeremy-bamber-files-exclusive-audio-191151
« Last Edit: November 29, 2014, 02:17:36 PM by Myster »
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline adam

Re: "Please come over..."
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2014, 02:46:16 PM »
Why are you questioning those three little words NB is supposed to have said when you can hear it straight from the horse's mouth?  It can't be any plainer than...

... said Goodnight to everybody, got in my car, drove home. And I guess it was about 10pm by this time. I rang Julie... had a hot drink, I don't-I don't think I had anything to eat and I had a quick bath and watched TV 'till about midnight. At around 3.15/3.30 I was woken up by the phone and I only had one in my house and that was by the kitchen door downstairs. And when I answered it I recognised dad's voice and he said "Please come over... your sister has gone crazy and has the gun" .

The call ended, although, I don't recall specifically hearing the dial tone, but I was still half asleep, I'd only just woken up to hear this, and so I rang dad back 'cause I thought you know I need more information.. what, where, how, you know what do you need me to do, how can I... and I specifically remember getting the engaged tone because I then pressed the last number redial at least twice more and both times got the engaged tone... and that's when I rang the police.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/the-jeremy-bamber-files-exclusive-audio-191151

Neville must have said 'please come over'. After all Jeremy 'immediately' rang the police. Well 26 minutes later.

If Neville had not said 'please come over', how was Jeremy supposed to realise that Neville needed him at 3.10am ? Sheila may have just gone crazy with the water pistol.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: "Please come over..."
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2014, 02:48:15 PM »
Why are you questioning those three little words NB is supposed to have said when you can hear it straight from the horse's mouth?  It can't be any plainer than...

... said Goodnight to everybody, got in my car, drove home. And I guess it was around 10pm. by this time. I rang Julie... had a hot drink, I don't-I don't think I had anything to eat and had a quick bath and watched TV 'till about midnight. At around 3.15/3.30 I was woken up by the phone and I only had one in my house and that was by the kitchen door downstairs. And when I answered it I recognised dad's voice and he said "Please come over... your sister has gone crazy and has the gun" .

The call ended, although, I don't recall specifically hearing the dial tone, but I was still half asleep, I'd only just woken up to hear this, and so I rang dad back 'cause I thought you know I need more information.. what, where, how, you know what do you need me to do, how can I... and I specifically remember getting the engaged tone because I then pressed the last number redial at least twice more and both times got the engaged tone... and that's when I rang the police.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/the-jeremy-bamber-files-exclusive-audio-191151

Yes I made reference to JB's audio clip (2011) in the OP but why did he not mention "Please come over" in his original WS (1985)?  Or when discussing with AE and she also overheard him speaking with EP where JB made no ref to "Please come over"?  Why did Malcolm Bonnet not make ref to it in his log? Or SM in his WS? I am inclined to think it was innocently thrown in by West who imo seemed unreliable insofar as listening and accurately recording details go.  And it has taken on a life of its own with JB blindly following.  Perhaps not really seeing the significance.  Or perhaps the significance only exists in my mind!  &%+((£

Based on CC's book it seems NB and June preferred to keep the severity of SC's mental illness private to the extent that it appears the extended family were kept in the dark including June's sister, PB.  This being the case to my mind it would limit NB's choices as to who he could call locally eg I have seen posters ask why NB would not call the Foakes, relatives or others.  If they were unaware that there was anything seriously wrong with SC to suddenly get a call from NB at circa 3am saying "Sheila's gone crazy she got the gun" they are more likely to ask questions eg 'Sheila who?'  'What do you mean she's gone crazy?' 'Where are you'?

Excerpt from CC's book

"One of the most striking things about that day, although not altogether surprising for me, was the fact that, the more I talked to June and Nevill's relations, the more I realised none of them actually knew anything had been seriously wrong with Bambs - not even June's sister Pam.  Many of them said that had they known, they would have been more than willing to help and share the burden.  Why hadn't I contacted them and told them all about it?  I couldn't believe what I was hearing and could only reply by saying that I didn't feel it had been my business to betray the Bamber's confidence.  They were very private people whose decisions I had to respect - whether right or wrong.  These people had no idea how much I'd need them as allies to convince June and Nevill of how strongly I felt Bamb's treatment should have been changed".

JB may have been the only local person who was aware of the severity of SC's mental illness.  Obviously others were aware in London/Northampton eg CC, FE, SC's friends and neighbours, doctors, Dr F etc but it would appear no one locally.

If NB called 999 it would not be a quick call (or not as quick as saying to JB "Sheila's  gone crazy she's got a gun) as he would need to give:

- his full name
- full postal address
- tel number ?
- brief outline of the situation

If NB did call JB but didn't say "Please come over" just "Sheilas gone crazy and shes got a gun" and then the line went dead it seems more logical that JB would attempt to recall NB to clarify what action he wanted JB to take. And perhaps accounts for JB appearing indecisive as to what action he should take eg call the police, go over or what?  Calling JM to seek her opinion.  Phoning local police instead of 999.

Myster I am sure you will tell me, albeit very nicely, to stop being silly and there was no phone call  8)><( 8)><( 8)><(




Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: "Please come over..."
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2014, 04:52:03 PM »
Just flicked thru' JB's police interviews and no mention is made of "Please come over".  It appears to me EP were trying to create inconsistencies in JB's version of events and attempting to tie JB in knots over whether JB called EP first or JM.  Therefore if there were variations in EP WS's eg West's/Bonnetts and JB's why was JB not grilled over omitting "Please come over" in his WS during his police interviews?

When did "Please come over" first come into the equation?  And who was the originator?   
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline adam

Re: "Please come over..."
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2014, 05:20:27 PM »
http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/how-and-why-did-sheila-do-it/Mirrorcoverandinside05.08.100002.jpg

This link is on the Official Site.

It is on the front page of the The Mirror in 2010.  Which I assume Jeremy & his team told them about. It says Neville said 'Please come over'.

Offline adam

Re: "Please come over..."
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2014, 05:28:13 PM »
As previously said, it does seem strange that Neville would ring Jeremy. Then not introduce himself. Then not make a request like 'please come over'.

He had time to make the call, so surely enough time to say 'it's dad, please come over'. These would be the first things he would say.

If Neville did not say this, Jeremy knew Sheila was a 'nutter', 'looney', 'psychotic depressive' & 'do lally'. And had just been told at 3.10am she had 'gone crazy' & 'got the gun'. Not sure what other hints he would need.

Offline puglove

Re: "Please come over..."
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2014, 05:36:21 PM »
Yes I made reference to JB's audio clip (2011) in the OP but why did he not mention "Please come over" in his original WS (1985)?  Or when discussing with AE and she also overheard him speaking with EP where JB made no ref to "Please come over"?  Why did Malcolm Bonnet not make ref to it in his log? Or SM in his WS? I am inclined to think it was innocently thrown in by West who imo seemed unreliable insofar as listening and accurately recording details go.  And it has taken on a life of its own with JB blindly following.  Perhaps not really seeing the significance.  Or perhaps the significance only exists in my mind!  &%+((£

Based on CC's book it seems NB and June preferred to keep the severity of SC's mental illness private to the extent that it appears the extended family were kept in the dark including June's sister, PB.  This being the case to my mind it would limit NB's choices as to who he could call locally eg I have seen posters ask why NB would not call the Foakes, relatives or others.  If they were unaware that there was anything seriously wrong with SC to suddenly get a call from NB at circa 3am saying "Sheila's gone crazy she got the gun" they are more likely to ask questions eg 'Sheila who?'  'What do you mean she's gone crazy?' 'Where are you'?

Excerpt from CC's book

"One of the most striking things about that day, although not altogether surprising for me, was the fact that, the more I talked to June and Nevill's relations, the more I realised none of them actually knew anything had been seriously wrong with Bambs - not even June's sister Pam.  Many of them said that had they known, they would have been more than willing to help and share the burden.  Why hadn't I contacted them and told them all about it?  I couldn't believe what I was hearing and could only reply by saying that I didn't feel it had been my business to betray the Bamber's confidence.  They were very private people whose decisions I had to respect - whether right or wrong.  These people had no idea how much I'd need them as allies to convince June and Nevill of how strongly I felt Bamb's treatment should have been changed".

JB may have been the only local person who was aware of the severity of SC's mental illness.  Obviously others were aware in London/Northampton eg CC, FE, SC's friends and neighbours, doctors, Dr F etc but it would appear no one locally.

If NB called 999 it would not be a quick call (or not as quick as saying to JB "Sheila's  gone crazy she's got a gun) as he would need to give:

- his full name
- full postal address
- tel number ?
- brief outline of the situation

If NB did call JB but didn't say "Please come over" just "Sheilas gone crazy and shes got a gun" and then the line went dead it seems more logical that JB would attempt to recall NB to clarify what action he wanted JB to take. And perhaps accounts for JB appearing indecisive as to what action he should take eg call the police, go over or what?  Calling JM to seek her opinion.  Phoning local police instead of 999.

Myster I am sure you will tell me, albeit very nicely, to stop being silly and there was no phone call  8)><( 8)><( 8)><(

Stop being silly, there was no phone call.     8)-)))

I just can't envisage a moment when Ralph could risk making a call if Sheila HAD A GUN (and according to Bamber she did). Ralph's priority would have been to take the gun out of Sheila's hands, whether she'd "gone crazy" or was just sitting and thoughtfully stroking the bloody thing. If Sheila WAS just holding it or waving it about, Ralph could have taken it from her and made it safe. If Sheila had started shooting upstairs, Ralph couldn't really leave her to get on with it while he went to the kitchen and the phone. Even if he thought that all was lost and June and the boys were dead, if Ralph could get to the kitchen he could get to the door and run outside to the nearest cottage, maybe even make it to his car. I doubt if he would waste precious moments hoping that Bamber would answer his phone.

I hope this makes sense, Holl. The phone call just doesn't work for me, it never has.
Jeremy Bamber kicked Mike Tesko in the fanny.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: "Please come over..."
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2014, 05:53:36 PM »
http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/how-and-why-did-sheila-do-it/Mirrorcoverandinside05.08.100002.jpg

This link is on the Official Site.

It is on the front page of the The Mirror in 2010.  Which I assume Jeremy & his team told them about. It says Neville said 'Please come over'.

Oh well it must be right then  8(0(*

But that was 2010.  Why was there no mention of "Please come over" pre trial?  It seems to have appeared at trial and continued post trial?  I have now re read JB's police interviews and as far as I can see there's no ref to "Please come over".  Wests WS and Bonnett's log are dated pre JB's interviews so why did EP not seize on any inconsistency?  And more importantly why didn't the prosecution or defence pick up on this and cross examine/use to their advantage.  Imo it is a very important point and potentially puts the phone calls in a different light.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: "Please come over..."
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2014, 06:19:44 PM »
As previously said, it does seem strange that Neville would ring Jeremy. Then not introduce himself. Then not make a request like 'please come over'.

He had time to make the call, so surely enough time to say 'it's dad, please come over'. These would be the first things he would say.

If Neville did not say this, Jeremy knew Sheila was a 'nutter', 'looney', 'psychotic depressive' & 'do lally'. And had just been told at 3.10am she had 'gone crazy' & 'got the gun'. Not sure what other hints he would need.

Adam I'm not sure that JB used all these derogatory terms in connection with SC's mental illness which were commonly used at that time.  Are you able to provide a source for "do lally"? 

What do people say in distress calls?  May day calls etc?  JB claims there was a pause of a few seconds before NB spoke.

When you say "not sure what other hints he would need" I'm not sure what you mean? 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: "Please come over..."
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2014, 06:38:06 PM »
Stop being silly, there was no phone call.     8)-)))

I just can't envisage a moment when Ralph could risk making a call if Sheila HAD A GUN (and according to Bamber she did). Ralph's priority would have been to take the gun out of Sheila's hands, whether she'd "gone crazy" or was just sitting and thoughtfully stroking the bloody thing. If Sheila WAS just holding it or waving it about, Ralph could have taken it from her and made it safe. If Sheila had started shooting upstairs, Ralph couldn't really leave her to get on with it while he went to the kitchen and the phone. Even if he thought that all was lost and June and the boys were dead, if Ralph could get to the kitchen he could get to the door and run outside to the nearest cottage, maybe even make it to his car. I doubt if he would waste precious moments hoping that Bamber would answer his phone.

I hope this makes sense, Holl. The phone call just doesn't work for me, it never has.

But if SC was threatening to shoot herself with the gun holding it under her chin or holding it at NB at point blank range with her finger on the trigger I am not so sure he would feel confident in his ability to disarm her  &%+((£ NB was military trained and being a WW2 RAF pilot  was likely to be brave in the face of adversity but it may be that he was not just concerned for his own safety but SC's too and also if he should be injured that SC was still left with a loaded firearm and June and the twins.

Why did EP call out FSU?  Why not just send in an unarmed officer to disarm SC if it was that easy?

See ya later for some Munch Mega Flaming Hot  8(0(* X

 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Myster

Re: "Please come over..."
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2014, 08:26:52 PM »
So why would NB call for his son's help to disarm her, when that very morning Jeremy Bamber told police they "didn't like each other and never got on"?  He'd be more likely to exacerbate the situation and end up dead himself, rather than calm it down.  JB was on a Sheila's scary and dangerous wind-up with Messrs Bews and Myall, so it's no wonder they scarpered for cover to call for TFU support.

I'll pray for you tonight to see the light, Holy Godhead... otherwise this missionary position of yours is gonna become permanent.
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Matthew Wyse

Re: "Please come over..."
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2014, 08:30:23 PM »
So why would NB call for his son's help to disarm her, when that very morning Jeremy Bamber told police they "didn't like each other and never got on"?  He'd be more likely to exacerbate the situation and end up dead himself, rather than calm it down.  JB was on a Sheila's scary and dangerous wind-up with Messrs Bews and Myall, so it's no wonder they scarpered for cover to call for TFU support.

I'll pray for you tonight to see the light, Holy Godhead... otherwise this missionary position of yours is gonna become permanent.


Why do you guys still argue over Bamber?       Hasnt he had every opportunity to prove his innocence and has summarily failed to do so.   Yawn
Most people suspect the truth but few are able to admit it.

Offline Myster

Re: "Please come over..."
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2014, 08:36:31 PM »

Why do you guys still argue over Bamber?       Hasnt he had every opportunity to prove his innocence and has summarily failed to do so.   Yawn

Don't look at me... Holly's the argumentative one.  I'm just trying to steer her on the righteous path.
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Matthew Wyse

Re: "Please come over..."
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2014, 08:44:51 PM »
Come on Holly, you strike me as an intelligent lass so why do you persist with your Bamber might be innocent theme?  Dont you think it would have been established by now had there been the slightest doubt in his conviction?
Most people suspect the truth but few are able to admit it.