EU membership, should we stay or leave?

[John]

Not to mention their efforts to stabilise basket-case Greece from economic collapse.  The strange thing though is that the majority of Germans who live abroad are not in favour of the Euro, they see it as a second rate currency and would prefer to have their Deutsch Mark back again like us Brits have the pound.

But back to the main issue, what are your thoughts on the EU referendum Stephen? 

Do you want to remain in that unaccountable organisation paying more and more every year and getting less and less back? 

Do you want to continue to pay overinflated prices to European manufacturers who operate under a system of protectionism?

What about immigration, are you prepared to receive millions more into this country, diluting our culture and taking jobs which should go to our children?

What about education?  Are you prepared to watch as schools struggle to cope with an influx of immigrants whose children will take up valuable classroom space?

What about the NHS and hospital waiting lists?   This can only get worse as immigrants who have contributed nothing to the system expect the same treatments as the rest of us?

To be honest I cannot see a single benefit to remaining in the EU but feel free to suggest one.

[stephen25000]

Not to mention their efforts to stabilise basket-case Greece from economic collapse.  The strange thing though is that the majority of Germans who live abroad are not in favour of the Euro, they see it as a second rate currency and would prefer to have their Deutsch Mark back again like us Brits have the pound.

But back to the main issue, what are your thoughts on the EU referendum Stephen? 

Do you want to remain in that unaccountable organisation paying more and more every year and getting less and less back? 

Do you want to continue to pay overinflated prices to European manufacturers who operate under a system of protectionism?

What about immigration, are you prepared to receive millions more into this country, diluting our culture and taking jobs which should go to our children?

What about education?  Are you prepared to watch as schools struggle to cope with an influx of immigrants whose children will take up valuable classroom space?

What about the NHS and hospital waiting lists?   This can only get worse as immigrants who have contributed nothing to the system expect the same treatments as the rest of us?

To be honest I cannot see a single benefit to remaining in the EU but feel free to suggest one.

Well I see a lot of what might happen in your  statements there, and rhetoric.

How about some cold hard facts to back it up first.

Then I will give you my answer.

All I see in your last post is a statement that could have easily been written by  Farage.

[John]

Well I see a lot of what might happen in your  statements there, and rhetoric.

How about some cold hard facts to back it up first.

Then I will give you my answer.

All I see in your last post is a statement that could have easily been written by  Farage.

I asked for your opinion Stephen since you appear to want to stay in the EU.  I am willing to be convinced.

[stephen25000]

I asked for your opinion Stephen since you appear to want to stay in the EU.  I am willing to be convinced.

Well John, I am quite happy to do that once I have some data/statistics to deal with from the Brexit side.

For example, we do not have an open border, as some imply. We are not part of the EU Schengen deal, are we ?

I have never seen from any member of the Brexit Team, just how they intend to control borders, if we leave the EU.

As we have approximately 7,700 miles of coastline around the UK, including the Islands,  who would be monitoring that ?

[John]

Well John, I am quite happy to do that once I have some data/statistics to deal with from the Brexit side.

For example, we do not have an open border, as some imply. We are not part of the EU Schengen deal, are we ?

I have never seen from any member of the Brexit Team, just how they intend to control borders, if we leave the EU.

As we have approximately 7,700 miles of coastline around the UK, including the Islands,  who would be monitoring that ?

The only coastline requiring monitoring is the south and south east coasts of England but that isn't the issue.  At the moment would-be illegal immigrants know that once they get to the UK or even get picked up by UK maritime patrols in the English Channel that they are home free and will not be repatriated.  That is unacceptable.  Once the news gets round that illegals will be returned to where they originated then good old blighty ceases to be as appealing a destination as it once was.

It just isn't good enough to let every waif and stray into our country, if we do, where will it all end?  Schengen is not the all and be all it is made out to be, at the moment the UK has no control over immigration to our own country and that just isn't cricket!

Vote LEAVE and take back control, it is that simple.

[stephen25000]

The only coastline requiring monitoring is the south and south east coasts of England but that isn't the issue.  At the moment would-be illegal immigrants know that once they get to the UK or even get picked up by UK maritime patrols in the English Channel that they are home free and will not be repatriated.  That is unacceptable.  Once the news gets round that illegals will be returned to where they originated then good old blighty ceases to be as appealing a destination as it once was.

It just isn't good enough to let every waif and stray into our country, if we do, where will it all end?  Schengen is not the all and be all it is made out to be, at the moment the UK has no control over immigration to our own country and that just isn't cricket!

Vote LEAVE and take back control, it is that simple.

'good old blighty' and 'just isn't cricket' ?

More cliches.

The patrols were centered on the South East, the immigrants would try elsewhere. Your argument does not stack up

I have already asked if those  immigrants were attempted to be forced to return to their original countries, and those countries said NO, what then ?


Likewise, those same people refuse to get on the transport, and violence erupts, how would it be handled ?

All I see with Brexit, is bland statements with the direct intent to inspire fear.

As I said, I know people from the EU.

One families children I tutor, have looked at the possibility of living in several countries, including countries inside and outside the EU, such as Australia. The parents did not past the 'criteria' in Australia, even though they had private wealth and both had useful skills, one is an Accountant and the other an Airline Pilot. They are now both working in the UK and have invested their money here to.


Would you say bye bye to them John ?

[stephen25000]

'Do you want to remain in that unaccountable organisation paying more and more every year and getting less and less back?'

Let's have some INDEPENDENTLY  verified facts and figures on this then ?

The £350 Million claim , and more according to Boris, is pure B.S.

Including the number of companies who have invested in the UK because we are , at the moment in the EU.

[stephen25000]

'Do you want to continue to pay overinflated prices to European manufacturers who operate under a system of protectionism? '

Cite some facts on this please.

We have been paying over inflated prices from America, as well as other countries.

e.g. http://blogs.which.co.uk/technology/news/uk-vs-us-do-we-really-pay-more/

[stephen25000]

'What about the NHS and hospital waiting lists?   This can only get worse as immigrants who have contributed nothing to the system expect the same treatments as the rest of us? '



Would you care to remind me, why the Conservative M.P. Sarah Wollaston left Brexit, for 'Remain in Europe' ?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/08/eu-referendum-debate-george-osborne-grilled-by-bbc-veteran-andre/

Likewise, where would many crucial services be without immigrants ?

Answers on a postcard.

[stephen25000]

Jo Cox murder suspect Tommy Mair tells court "my name is death to traitors, freedom for Britain"

http://www.express.co.uk/

[stephen25000]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/17/eu-referendum-the-times-the-sun-brexit


http://www.thetimes.co.uk/?sunday


The Times’s editorial in Saturday’s issue concedes that, for most Britons, voting to remain inside the EU “would be a pragmatic rather than enthusiastic choice, made despite the behaviour of Brussels rather than because of it”.

To vote to leave “would be a vote of no confidence in the European project so shattering that it would rock it to the core, with unknown and possibly alarming consequences”.

It sees the “choice between change and a version of the status quo” as one “between risk and risk aversion” and argues that change “has inspired voters” because it “is more exciting than continuity, and because the status quo has become a byword for frustration”.

The paper thinks the institutions in Brussels are “undemocratic, meddling and short-sighted”, pointing to their failure to cope with the refugee crisis and the “token concessions” granted to Cameron when he sought a new EU relationship for Britain.

In such a situation, it is “the Brexiteers who seem to stand for freedom … Their vision is of a proud new independence and their account of how to get there has the romance of adventure… They are freebooting cavaliers to remain’s sturdy roundheads”.


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But the leave campaigners have varnished reality, says the paper. “It is not true that Britain sends £350m a week to Brussels … It is not true that EU migration is the main cause of pressure on the NHS … It is not true that Turkey is on a path to EU membership.”

Brexit, contends the Times, would not answer “the prayers of those Vote Leave is wooing.” And “a vote for Brexit is unquestionably economically riskier than a vote to remain”.

In a key paragraph, the newspaper states: “This referendum has rightly been a thunderous rebuke to Europe and a solid Brexit vote should shake Brussels out of its complacency. If Mr Cameron wins, he must seize the moment to galvanise other disgruntled allies from Denmark to Dubrovnik for a new assault on waste, red tape and anti-democratic interference.”

The Times is convinced that if Cameron wins the vote to stay in, he “would be at the peak of his powers” and “could go down in history as both an effective campaigner and the leader of a reform movement in Europe”.

It concludes that staying in “may not sound as exhilarating or romantic as a defiant march to Brexit, but it is the better choice for Britain and Europe”.

[Wonderfulspam]

Jo Cox murder suspect Tommy Mair tells court "my name is death to traitors, freedom for Britain"

http://www.express.co.uk/

I can't help but wonder if Jo Cox, during her time as MP, had put as much effort & interest into improving the mental health services in her constinuency, as she did into the plight of some muslim kids living some 3000 miles away.

[stephen25000]

I can't help but wonder if Jo Cox, during her time as MP, had put as much effort & interest into improving the mental health services in her constinuency, as she did into the plight of some muslim kids living some 3000 miles away.

I had thought better of your posts Wonderfulspam.

This is not one of them.

Perhaps you should ask the constituents she served as to how much work she did there, before and after becoming an MP.

[Wonderfulspam]

I had thought better of your posts Wonderfulspam.

This is not one of them.

Perhaps you should ask the constituents she served as to how much work she did there, before and after becoming an MP.

It's just cynical me.

I've since read that....

'The Telegraph has learnt that Mrs Cox, the week before she died, had raised concerns over the provision of mental health services in her constituency of Batley and Spen.

She had met with Musarrat Khan, a local Labour councillor, who herself had expressed fears that adult mental health services were under-funded at a meeting held at a Methodist Church in Batley on Thursday night.

Councillor Khan said: “We did talk about mental health and the difficulties for people with mental health problems particularly people who don’t know how to access the system and fall through the net. Jo had a good understanding of mental health issues.”

.....

I'd still be interested to know which was her priority.

...You see, I very much doubt that politicians in Syria spend a great deal of time worrying about the standards of mental health provisions in Batley & Spen.

[stephen25000]

It's just cynical me.

I've since read that....

'The Telegraph has learnt that Mrs Cox, the week before she died, had raised concerns over the provision of mental health services in her constituency of Batley and Spen.

She had met with Musarrat Khan, a local Labour councillor, who herself had expressed fears that adult mental health services were under-funded at a meeting held at a Methodist Church in Batley on Thursday night.

Councillor Khan said: “We did talk about mental health and the difficulties for people with mental health problems particularly people who don’t know how to access the system and fall through the net. Jo had a good understanding of mental health issues.”

.....

I'd still be interested to know which was her priority.

...You see, I very much doubt that politicians in Syria spend a great deal of time worrying about the standards of mental health provisions in Batley & Spen.

It's easy to be cynical as regards the referendum.

I take nothing any Politician says as fact, and that applies to both sides. Mrs. Cox was campaigning on the 'stay in' side, and she was killed by a mentally disturbed man who had in his collection, Nazi material and other right wing propaganda.

It would be 'pleasant' to see when campaigning starts again just to see real facts debated, not hyperbole.