EU membership, should we stay or leave?

[Jean-Pierre]

Joking aside, the Australian system has been mentioned as being the foundation on which the UK government could build a proper immigration policy. It's all very well the likes of Jeremy Corbyn saying he doesn't care where workers in the NHS come from because he should care. With comments like that there is more chance of Turkey joining the EU than there is of him ever becoming PM. Every single poll shows that born and bred British people are sick to the back teeth of illegal immigrants being treated as if they have some God-given right to stay in this country.

One of the main planks of the brexit campaign is concern about uncontrolled immigration to the uk by European citizens.  And in particular those from Eastern Europe.  I get that.

But I am puzzled about why that is being conflated with illegal immigration from outside the EU.  This is clearly a very serious and ongoing issue, but I fail to see what it has to do with the EU referendum.  It's a completely different problem.  Voting for brexit will not stop it.

[stephen25000]

And Cameron refuses to answer, when asked, if he'd use it, that's because the traitor wants them in.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3649592/Dave-rack-Turkey-PM-fails-three-times-say-veto-country-s-entry-EU.html

Do you actually believe this rubbish, or are you just taking the piss Spam ?

[Wonderfulspam]

Encouraged by Merkel to destabilize the UK ?

She wants us to stay.

All I see on here from Brexit supporters is invariably illogical and rampant rhetoric, with no real facts to back it up.

Cameron won't veto Turkeys membership, he's paving the road from Ankara.

Fact.

[stephen25000]

One of the main planks of the brexit campaign is concern about uncontrolled immigration to the uk by European citizens.  And in particular those from Eastern Europe.  I get that.

But I am puzzled about why that is being conflated with illegal immigration from outside the EU.  This is clearly a very serious and ongoing issue, but I fail to see what it has to do with the EU referendum.  It's a completely different problem.  Voting for brexit will not stop it.

Precisely JP.


It is pleasant to be in agreement with you, at least on this issue.

[John]

And Cameron refuses to answer, when asked, if he'd use it, that's because the traitor wants them in.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3649592/Dave-rack-Turkey-PM-fails-three-times-say-veto-country-s-entry-EU.html

That is very obvious.  Cameron and the other 27 European heads of State have already agreed to give Turks access to Europe as long as they take back a few illegals.  Nobody is fooled by Cameron, he stated on Question Time the other day that he won't make the decision on Turkey because he will not be PM.  He wants to line his pockets now and then b....r off leaving a mess.

[John]

One of the main planks of the brexit campaign is concern about uncontrolled immigration to the uk by European citizens.  And in particular those from Eastern Europe.  I get that.

But I am puzzled about why that is being conflated with illegal immigration from outside the EU.  This is clearly a very serious and ongoing issue, but I fail to see what it has to do with the EU referendum.  It's a completely different problem.  Voting for brexit will not stop it.

Why every not?  The problem we have at the moment is that the UK cannot chuck out illegals because of EU Human Rights laws.  Dump the EU, bring back our own laws tailored to our country and send them packing.  When illegals realise that once they are caught in the UK that they will becdeported then that will make it a less attractive destination.

 

[stephen25000]

That is very obvious.  Cameron and the other 27 European heads of State have already agreed to give Turks access to Europe as long as they take back a few illegals.  Nobody is fooled by Cameron, he stated on Question Time the other day that he won't make the decision on Turkey because he will not be PM.  He wants to line his pockets now and then b....r off leaving a mess.

I completely disagree.

There is no way we would let millions of Turkish people into this country.

Then again Boris Johnson is of Turkish stock.

 

I'd be very happy to put him on a one way trip to Turkey. *&*%£

[stephen25000]

Why every not?  The problem we have at the moment is that the UK cannot chuck out illegals because of EU Human Rights laws.  Dump the EU, bring back our own laws tailored to our country and send them packing.  When illegals realise that once they are caught in the UK that will make it a less attractive destination.

Again John, what if those countries refuse to take them, what then ?

[John]

I completely disagree.

There is no way we would let millions of Turkish people into this country.

I completely agree, it will not happen because the British people won't stand for it.  But apathy and maintaining the status quo just isn't an option. Those who think that we should remain in the EU and reform it from within are seriously deluded.  Have they not seen what happened to Cameron last time he sought a few EU crumbs?

[John]

Again John, what if those countries refuse to take them, what then ?

These being countries where we send £ millions in aid?  It's a no-brainer!

[Jean-Pierre]

Why every not?  The problem we have at the moment is that the UK cannot chuck out illegals because of EU Human Rights laws.  Dump the EU, bring back our own laws tailored to our country and send them packing.  When illegals realise that once they are caught in the UK that they will becdeported then that will make it a less attractive destination.

This is where you need to understand the difference between the ECJ - which is an EC institution and is responsible for applying EU law.  And the ECHR to which we are a signatory but which is not an EU institution. 

If you think that leaving the EU will resolve the illegal immigration problems then you are going to be disappointed. 

[John]

My principle reason for wishing to remain is that I think that a vote to leave will cause unprecedented economic crisis for years to come.  Leave campaigners tell me "never mind, it's only the economy, it'll be fine" but I'm sorry  - the economy drives pretty much everything else, and "don't worry, it'll be fine" doesn't really inspire much confidence.  So I'm not prepared to risk the country's economic health (and knock-on effect a meltdown would have on every single person on this island's standard of living) on some wishful thinking.  Stay in the EU, push for reform, that's what I vote for.  Now your turn to denigrate me!

I fear the EU won't survive that long if the UK leaves.  You might not be aware but I have seen it for myself, most European countries are struggling at the moment. Greece is bust and Portugal isn't far behind.  Unprecedented unemployment especially among young people has become the norm.  Europe is struggling to cope with its debts, if we remain we will be asked to pay more and more into the EU coffers as seven new States are brought on board.  These States are all former Soviet bloc States with little to offer.  They will have to be susidized for decades with us paying a large part of it.  If the UK leaves, the EU will face a bigger crisis than we will. The EU needs us more than we need them.

Without the burdens imposed by the EU the UK will be free of European tariffs and free to make our own deals with the rest of the world. Short term uncertainty is a small price to pay for long term prosperity as an independent free trading nation?

The way I see it, we have everything to gain by getting out now before it is too late!

[John]

This is where you need to understand the difference between the ECJ - which is an EC institution and is responsible for applying EU law.  And the ECHR to which we are a signatory but which is not an EU institution. 

If you think that leaving the EU will resolve the illegal immigration problems then you are going to be disappointed.

I don't agree.

[Angelo222]

I have yet to see anything positive from the remain campaign, all they have done is run down our country and make out we are wholly dependent on a charitable EU.  A load of bollocks and scaremongering at its best.

Stephen, you posted that we have a moral responsibility to help poorer European countries.  Don't we do that already without them needing to join the EU?

[Jean-Pierre]

I have yet to see anything positive from the remain campaign, all they have done is run down our country and make out we are wholly dependent on a charitable EU.  A load of bollocks and scaremongering at its best.

Stephen, you posted that we have a moral responsibility to help poorer European countries.  Don't we do that already without them needing to join the EU?

I think you may be misreading the sentiment, Angelo.  The U.K. Is more than capable of fighting our corner in the EU in trade and finance, and punching way above our weight in diplomatic and foreign affairs.  According to certain measures   We are the worlds fifth largest economy.  We are not part of schengen and have control of our borders.  We have retained sterling.  We have various opt outs and vetoes.  So we have all the advantages of eu membership without some of the disadvantages. 

So far from escaping the yoke of the EU (as those advocating brexit are saying) remaining would be a very positive vote to retain and develop our place at the top table of a vibrant trading block of some 475m please. The EU certainly has problems, but they will only be resolved from within.  Cutting ourselves off would be, in my view, an act of madness.

for those concerned about immigration, remember that immigrants only gravitate to successful economies.  And this county has been founded on immigration. 

There is a very easy way to solve the immigration "problem".  Vote LEAVE, crash the economy and nobody will want to come here.  Problem solved.  Good luck.