EU membership, should we stay or leave?

[stephen25000]

I have yet to see anything positive from the remain campaign, all they have done is run down our country and make out we are wholly dependent on a charitable EU.  A load of bollocks and scaremongering at its best.

Stephen, you posted that we have a moral responsibility to help poorer European countries.  Don't we do that already without them needing to join the EU?

I have some idea of how much the UK spends of Foreign Aid Angelo, but before I give the figures, do you think the UK, not including charities, spends more on the EU or Foreign Aid ?

[stephen25000]

I think you may be misreading the sentiment, Angelo.  The U.K. Is more than capable of fighting our corner in the EU in trade and finance, and punching way above our weight in diplomatic and foreign affairs.  According to certain measures   We are the worlds fifth largest economy.  We are not part of schengen and have control of our borders.  We have retained sterling.  We have various opt outs and vetoes.  So we have all the advantages of eu membership without some of the disadvantages. 

So far from escaping the yoke of the EU (as those advocating brexit are saying) remaining would be a very positive vote to retain and develop our place at the top table of a vibrant trading block of some 475m please. The EU certainly has problems, but they will only be resolved from within.  Cutting ourselves off would be, in my view, an act of madness.

for those concerned about immigration, remember that immigrants only gravitate to successful economies.  And this county has been founded on immigration. 

There is a very easy way to solve the immigration "problem".  Vote LEAVE, crash the economy and nobody will want to come here.  Problem solved.  Good luck.

Excellent post JP.   

[Angelo222]

I think you may be misreading the sentiment, Angelo.  The U.K. Is more than capable of fighting our corner in the EU in trade and finance, and punching way above our weight in diplomatic and foreign affairs.  According to certain measures   We are the worlds fifth largest economy.  We are not part of schengen and have control of our borders.  We have retained sterling.  We have various opt outs and vetoes.  So we have all the advantages of eu membership without some of the disadvantages. 

So far from escaping the yoke of the EU (as those advocating brexit are saying) remaining would be a very positive vote to retain and develop our place at the top table of a vibrant trading block of some 475m please. The EU certainly has problems, but they will only be resolved from within.  Cutting ourselves off would be, in my view, an act of madness.

for those concerned about immigration, remember that immigrants only gravitate to successful economies.  And this county has been founded on immigration. 

There is a very easy way to solve the immigration "problem".  Vote LEAVE, crash the economy and nobody will want to come here.  Problem solved.  Good luck.

You managed to prove my point perfectly, vote leave will not crash our economy, just ask Cameron because he stated as much.

As far as Schengen is concerned it might as well not exist. You claim we have control of our borders and I claim the contrary.  We cannot send illegal immigrant home so that sort of decides that argument.  We don't have control of our borders.

The UK cannot win any open vote in the EU as the eastern Europe bloc will always win, have you learned nothing from the Eurovision Song Contest?  The UK has limited veto powers but that isn't set in stone.

If you want a United States of Europe, a federal one State EU, a European Army and our country overrun by foreigners then you're welcome to it.

[Angelo222]

I have some idea of how much the UK spends of Foreign Aid Angelo, but before I give the figures, do you think the UK, not including charities, spends more on the EU or Foreign Aid ?

Maybe you hadn't realised it but the money we squander on the EU (the money we don't get back) is foreign aid.

[stephen25000]

You managed to prove my point perfectly, vote leave will not crash our economy, just ask Cameron because he stated as much.

As far as Schengen is concerned it might as well not exist. You claim we have control of our borders and I claim the contrary.  We cannot send illegal immigrant home so that sort of decides that argument.  We don't have control of our borders.

The UK cannot win any open vote in the EU as the eastern Europe bloc will always win, have you learned nothing from the Eurovision Song Contest?  The UK has limited veto powers but that isn't set in stone.

If you want a United States of Europe, a federal one State EU, a European Army and our country overrun by foreigners then you're welcome to it.

If we have no control of our borders, then why have border guards at all ?

By the way, how has the United States of America coping with a United Army and is it overrun with foreigners (and bare in mind it has bigger borders than us)  ?

[stephen25000]

Maybe you hadn't realised it but the money we squander on the EU (the money we don't get back) is foreign aid.

Define Foreign Aid, and by the way, what does the money given to the EU get used for ?

By the way, we do spend more on Aid, than with the EU.

For reference purposes............


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-35226478

and before you say anything, I already know that some Aid money is wasted and could be more wisely allocated, and not to Swiss Bank Accounts of certain recipients of finance.

[G-Unit]

I don't know if it will happen in my lifetime, but I fully expect a United States of Europe to emerge eventually. Business needs it and what business needs politicians enable.

[Jean-Pierre]

I don't know if it will happen in my lifetime, but I fully expect a United States of Europe to emerge eventually. Business needs it and what business needs politicians enable.

I think it might - eventually.  A few issues like language to solve first. 

And successful business is vital to any economy.  In my view, we should not take a step to isolate ourselves from Europe. 

[John]

If we have no control of our borders, then why have border guards at all ?

By the way, how has the United States of America coping with a United Army and is it overrun with foreigners (and bare in mind it has bigger borders than us)  ?

The UK border controls mostly exist at major international ports and airports.  Staff from the Borders Agency recently complained that they are undermanned and underfunded.  This will have to change, gone are the days when complacency is acceptable.

Isn't that why The Donald wants to build a wall on the border between Arizona, Mexico, Texas and Mexico?

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/02/17/politics/donald-trump-mexico-wall/

[John]

I don't know if it will happen in my lifetime, but I fully expect a United States of Europe to emerge eventually. Business needs it and what business needs politicians enable.

Can't see it, history has told us that the one size fits all ethos doesn't work in Europe.    More likely to go the other way and a return to seperate national identities. At least that is the view of many Spaniards I have spoken to. I wonder what Eleanor has found in northern France?

[stephen25000]

The UK border controls mostly exist at major international ports and airports.  Staff from the Borders Agency recently complained that they are undermanned and underfunded.  This will have to change, gone are the days when complacency is acceptable.

Isn't that why The Donald wants to build a wall on the border between Arizona, Mexico, Texas and Mexico?

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/02/17/politics/donald-trump-mexico-wall/

So whose fault is the lack of staff at border controls?

[stephen25000]

The UK border controls mostly exist at major international ports and airports.  Staff from the Borders Agency recently complained that they are undermanned and underfunded.  This will have to change, gone are the days when complacency is acceptable.

Isn't that why The Donald wants to build a wall on the border between Arizona, Mexico, Texas and Mexico?

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/02/17/politics/donald-trump-mexico-wall/

Trump IMHO is several cents short of a dollar.

He has, I believe already been made bankrupt 4 times.

Not a man you want leading any country or giving advice to others.

[Jean-Pierre]

You managed to prove my point perfectly, vote leave will not crash our economy, just ask Cameron because he stated as much.

As far as Schengen is concerned it might as well not exist. You claim we have control of our borders and I claim the contrary.  We cannot send illegal immigrant home so that sort of decides that argument.  We don't have control of our borders.

The UK cannot win any open vote in the EU as the eastern Europe bloc will always win, have you learned nothing from the Eurovision Song Contest?  The UK has limited veto powers but that isn't set in stone.

If you want a United States of Europe, a federal one State EU, a European Army and our country overrun by foreigners then you're welcome to it.

Voting out will cause a significant financial shock and the uncertainty will mean it'll last for years.  There may be many reasons for voting out but they will come at a significant financial cost. 

[G-Unit]

I think it might - eventually.  A few issues like language to solve first. 

And successful business is vital to any economy.  In my view, we should not take a step to isolate ourselves from Europe.

Just to be a little controversial successful business is vital only to a capitalist economy.

[Myster]

Voting out will cause a significant financial shock and the uncertainty will mean it'll last for years.  There may be many reasons for voting out but they will come at a significant financial cost.

Absolute ballcocks!!!... I see you've got your opaque crystal ball out again!!!