Anni Dewani - Introduction to the case

[AnneGuedes]

Seriously Anne, how does this sound remotely like a prank? Either Shrien Dewani set her up to be killed, or he is telling the truth and they were kidnapped and she was murdered. She was quite obviously deliberately murdered and that is never a prank of any description. Regardless of Shrien Dewani's guilt or innocence it obviously is not a prank of any description. It is a vicious and cowardly murder. Only the number of people involved and their identities are yet to be fully resolved.

If it was a deliberately planned murder, what was the motive ? What could Shrien hope to gain out of it ? If he orchestrated all this, he was also risking to be caught, as it in fact happened. So it must have been crucial for him. Why ? And what about his mental state ? Is it faked ?

[Angelo222]

Well the evidence given in court so far appears to point to his involvement in setting up the whole distasteful mess.

[AnneGuedes]

Well the evidence given in court so far appears to point to his involvement in setting up the whole distasteful mess.

I'm not denying this, Angelo, but it doesn't make sense. Admitting he had no other way to get rid of a wife he was for some reason forced to marry in spite of the repulsion she inspired him, why setting up such mess ? It was like signing his crime ! He had no chance to come out of this as a victim. Those guys of course would talk and denounce him to save a part of their skin.

[Angelo222]

I'm not denying this, Angelo, but it doesn't make sense. Admitting he had no other way to get rid of a wife he was for some reason forced to marry in spite of the repulsion she inspired him, why setting up such mess ? It was like signing his crime ! He had no chance to come out of this as a victim. Those guys of course would talk and denounce him to save a part of their skin.

People with mental heath problems do the weirdest things for all sorts of reasons.

[AnneGuedes]

People with mental heath problems do the weirdest things for all sorts of reasons.

Well, this has yet to be demonstrated, Angelo. Actually very often the weirdest things are done by people diagnosed as mentally responsible, not schizo, parano or whatever.
What sort of mental health problem would you identify in the cultured and educated XXth people who forced other people into subhuman conditions in order to despise them and to destroy them?

[Sherlock Holmes]

I'm not denying this, Angelo, but it doesn't make sense. Admitting he had no other way to get rid of a wife he was for some reason forced to marry in spite of the repulsion she inspired him, why setting up such mess ? It was like signing his crime ! He had no chance to come out of this as a victim. Those guys of course would talk and denounce him to save a part of their skin.

If he was gay -- we discussed this on the other thread - a claim for which there seems to be a reasonable amount of evidence,  and the couple did not sleep together before the wedding (according to Anni's account), he may not have realised until after the wedding itself that he was unable to consummate the relationship. This could have caused him to panic, explaining the hasty way in which the crime was arranged, and why he did not try and find a way out of the relationship earlier.

He may have thought that he could have a reasonably normal relationship with his wife, to the extent she would not suspect he was gay. (Yes, it does happen in today's world, more often than one would imagine. I know of a few cases myself and I am just a young thing, much younger than my pipe-smoking avatar!).

[lane99]

If it was a deliberately planned murder, what was the motive ? What could Shrien hope to gain out of it ?...

He was under pressure from his very conservative family (who also had control of his purse strings) to get married.  And being gay was certainly not an option his family would have accepted.

Getting married, suffering a tragic loss, and then being a lifelong widower in mourning for "the love of his life" was one way to get his family off his back and avoid being written out of the will.

The above appears to me the most likely motive for the murder, if it indeed was orchestrated by Shrien Dewani.

[John]

He was under pressure from his very conservative family (who also had control of his purse strings) to get married.  And being gay was certainly not an option his family would have accepted.

Getting married, suffering a tragic loss, and then being a lifelong widower in mourning for "the love of his life" was one way to get his family off his back and avoid being written out of the will.

The above appears to me the most likely motive for the murder, if it indeed was orchestrated by Shrien Dewani.

Should be an eye opener of a trial if the previous dramatics are anything to go by.

[dewanifacts]

He was under pressure from his very conservative family (who also had control of his purse strings) to get married.  And being gay was certainly not an option his family would have accepted.

But they have accepted it. And they've also accepted the fact that Shrien's sister is openly lesbian. Neither child has been disowned. Shrien is apparently working in the family business and going on holidays, so clearly he still has access to the family money.

This entire line of argument can be chucked out the window.

[Passer-by]

But they have accepted it. And they've also accepted the fact that Shrien's sister is openly lesbian. Neither child has been disowned. Shrien is apparently working in the family business and going on holidays, so clearly he still has access to the family money.

This entire line of argument can be chucked out the window.

They've accepted it retrospectively - it was the lesser if 2 evils for their family honour, wasn't it?  And let's face it, Cape Town is one if the gayest cities in the planet and it's highly likely that was not the first time he'd been there.

[dewanifacts]

I can't speak to the gayness of Cape Town but will take your word for it.  There is no record of Shrien ever visiting Cape Town, or indeed SA previously. You say "highly likely" as though its virtually a known fact that he visited, but its plain speculation just like the Dr Pox story. These sorts of tangential red herring stories just act as a distraction from the actual facts of the case. 

Don't forget, first and foremost, he's been completely exonerated of any wrongdoing.  Any talk of family honour, him being at risk of being disinherited, cultural pressures to marry etc are interesting topics in their own right, but have little relevance to the facts of the case.  It just amounts to speculation as to a possible motive.  But what's the point discussing possible motive when there isn't any evidence whatsoever of wrongdoing?  The judge quite rightly decided that that little sideshow was of no value to the court.  She was looking for evidence of guilt but all she found was fabricated evidence, contradictions, and lies specifically designed to incriminate the accused - it's all there in the judgement. http://www.saflii.org/za/cases/ZAWCHC/2014/188.html

[Passer-by]

If you have to take my word for it that Cape Town is packed to the gills with gay people you clearly haven't been there.  So I find it really odd that you challenged my knowledge of the Airport, the taxi system and what everyone obviously does when visiting that beautiful city.  You clearly have no perspective of how epically out of place his actions were.  It is utterly beyond belief that anyone would go to the Cape Grace and then poke off 30-40 miles away to look at a slum.  I'm betting - though of course I don't know - that they didn't go for a tour of the slums of Mumbai to patronise the poor people when they got married there.

[dewanifacts]

Having enjoyed a marvellous two week family vacation in Cape Town in 2007, I concur that it is one of the world's most attractive tourist destinations. I wasn't aware of the sexuality of most of the people around us so unfortunately I have to defer to your intricate knowledge of the gay scene.

Interestingly, we did barely any of the activities that you detailed in your post in the other thread yet it was still one of our most memorable vacations ever and we hope to return one day to that beautiful city. 

Just goes to show how everyone travels differently, eh?

 

[Passer-by]

I'm astonished you didn't notice how many couples only had a single gender.  It was the Gay Pound that rehabilitated the centre of Cape Town starting from the notorious de Waterkant district where they did up all the former slave cottages to be stunning townhouses with rooftop gardens:  it's very well known.  Obviously I'm making a big leap in assuming that men who hold hands and women who kiss each other are gay without questioning them about their sexuality, but I can assert that in the apartment building I lived in right in the centre most of my neighbours were gay couples.  When I rented it out it was via an agent who was openly gay.  I gather some of the people they let it to were gay.  Strike up conversations with people in bars:  transact business meetings, visit the GP, go round houses with estate agents - all openly gay.  If you go to Third Beach you will notice that everyone else is a single-gender couple:  it is famous for being a 'gay beach' - I used to go to it every day because it is smaller and quieter and there was less risk of my toddler running off.  If you go around the CBD there are loads of Kookie little antique shops, clothes and book and book shops with very flamboyant owners.

In fact you're right, you barely touched Cape Town if you didn't notice - that's without even going to Cape Point Gym. 

And which Township did you visit?

[dewanifacts]

Didn't notice the gayness. I must not have a very attuned gaydar. Was perhaps preoccupied with making sure the little ones didn't wander off.   

Did not visit a township, although next time I think I might. Will hopefully be sans children. Cape Town's tourism website certainly makes a visit to Gugulethu sound like a good experience.

http://www.capetown.travel/attractions/entry/Gugulethu

Will likely do a safe guided tour. Don't think we'll be trusting a taxi driver to be our guide!