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Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Lisbon Libel Trial Daily Reports and Judgements => Topic started by: pathfinder73 on March 21, 2017, 05:48:15 PM

Title: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: pathfinder73 on March 21, 2017, 05:48:15 PM
The Supreme Court in Portugal have dismissed the McCann's application for an annulment of their earlier decision.

From the Court website:

Supremo Tribunal de Justiça [Supreme Court of Justice]
Descritivo: [description]
Tabela da Sessão de 21-03-2017 10:00 [ table/chart of the sitting/session on 21 March 2017 at 10.00am]
(1ª SECÇÃO) [[section 1]

Recorrente [applicant] : Kate Marie Healy Mccann
Recorrente: Gerald Patrick Mccann
Recorrido: [applied against] Gonçalo Sousa Amaral
Recorrido: Editora Guerra e Paz-Lda

decisão = [decision]
Indeferida = [dismissed]



http://www.stj.pt/ficheiros/tabelas/Decididas/Civeis/1s-2017-03-21.pdf

216
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: jassi on March 21, 2017, 05:51:47 PM
just seen elsewhere

http://www.stj.pt/ficheiros/tabelas/Decididas/Civeis/1s-2017-03-21.pdf

Appears that the SC has given their decision - rejected

(bottom of second page)
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on March 21, 2017, 05:55:03 PM
Dismissed

http://www.stj.pt/ficheiros/tabelas/Decididas/Civeis/1s-2017-03-21.pdf

Interesting!
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: stephen25000 on March 21, 2017, 05:57:02 PM
Interesting!

Well that was totally unexpected.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on March 21, 2017, 06:03:14 PM
Well that was totally unexpected.

That's because us hoi polloi is too fik to spot the masterplan. This was merely a tactical withdrawal prompted by the poor standard of the Portuguese judiciary system.
"You wait til........................"
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 21, 2017, 06:09:05 PM
just seen elsewhere

http://www.stj.pt/ficheiros/tabelas/Decididas/Civeis/1s-2017-03-21.pdf

Appears that the SC has given their decision - rejected

(bottom of second page)
Does the case number match the annulment process?  1454/09.5TVLSB.L1.S1  is the number on the spreadsheet. 
Case No. 1.454 / 09.5TVLSB.L1.S1 from the OP  That might just be the original case file number originating from the process started in 2009?
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on March 21, 2017, 06:16:29 PM
Does the case number match the annulment process?  1454/09.5TVLSB.L1.S1  is the number on the spreadsheet. 
Case No. 1.454 / 09.5TVLSB.L1.S1 from the OP  That might just be the original case file number originating from the process started in 2009?

How many cases involving Kate Marie Healy, Gerald Patrick McCann and Goncalo Amaral do believe are to be heard by the SC on 21.03.2017?
The complaint is was the only one outstanding
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 21, 2017, 06:25:29 PM
How many cases involving Kate Marie Healy, Gerald Patrick McCann and Goncalo Amaral do believe are to be heard by the SC on 21.03.2017?
The complaint is was the only one outstanding
There could have been more than one attempt at introducing the complaint and the maybe the first one was rejected.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: barrier on March 21, 2017, 06:26:56 PM
There could have been more than one attempt at introducing the complaint and the maybe the first one was rejected.

Straws and clutching.

Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: stephen25000 on March 21, 2017, 06:27:44 PM
There could have befen more than one attempt at introducing the complaint and the maybe the first one was rejected.

Really ?

Where did you get that idea from.

It was the last chance saloon.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: misty on March 21, 2017, 06:39:11 PM
Really ?

Where did you get that idea from.

It was the last chance saloon.

Um....there's still the ECHR....by which time the investigation may well have produced some...unexpected....results.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: stephen25000 on March 21, 2017, 06:42:19 PM
Um....there's still the ECHR....by which time the investigation may well have produced some...unexpected....results.

A long backlog in cases in the ECHR.

As to the investigation........
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 21, 2017, 06:56:13 PM
A long backlog in cases in the ECHR.

As to the investigation........

There's no rush
I would like to see the McCanns more proactive in silencing their critics in the uk and answering them
Hopefully we will now see both


Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: stephen25000 on March 21, 2017, 07:12:09 PM
Time for the Mccanns to pay up.

No more delays.


Probability of success, even getting their case heard with the E.C.H.R. , minimal.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on March 21, 2017, 07:12:49 PM
There could have been more than one attempt at introducing the complaint and the maybe the first one was rejected.
Yeah! right Nobby riiiiight.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Eleanor on March 21, 2017, 07:16:27 PM
I'm awaiting the result of the success or otherwise of the McCann request for an annulment with great interest and not only from a partisan viewpoint.

Despite the oft stated belief that there was no leave to appeal following a Supreme Court Ruling ... it is now evident that was wrong and that such rulings may be open to question in appropriate circumstances.

Judges cannot be seen to be allowed to overturn the provisions of a written Constitution in a parliamentary democracy. 

What on earth fuelled the arrogance of these three individuals to assume that they would be allowed to do just that?

I wouldn't bank on this if I was you.  The Portuguese Justice System is now looking like real shit, and totally devoid of Justice.  Have at it, as they may.

Personally, I don't really care anymore.  I am just appalled, and nothing to be done.  The PJ still have the dregs of the fascists  which will only die when the old men die.

The day will come.

But I'll tell you what.  No other person will ever fall down some steps of a Police Station, and no one will ever be tortured again to extract a  "Confession."

This alone is what Madeleine has done for Portugal.  I do most sincerely hope that The McCanns can see this.

It is the best ever.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 21, 2017, 07:29:14 PM
Time for the Mccanns to pay up.

No more delays.


Probability of success, even getting their case heard in Portugal with the E.C.H.R. , minimal.

The case won't be heard in Portugal
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: stephen25000 on March 21, 2017, 07:33:00 PM
We already know that.

First hurdle, is that any case to the E.C.H.R. has to be accepted.

Meanwhile they have to pay up.

If they don't, well....................
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 21, 2017, 07:35:13 PM
Time for the Mccanns to pay up.

No more delays.


Probability of success, even getting their case heard in Portugal with the E.C.H.R. , minimal.
the case with the ECHR will not be heard in Portugal
You should edit your post
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: jassi on March 21, 2017, 07:41:27 PM
The case won't be heard in Portugal


The case probably won't even be heard.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 21, 2017, 07:47:07 PM

The case probably won't even be heard.

I would say it will
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: stephen25000 on March 21, 2017, 07:49:47 PM

The case probably won't even be heard.

Unfortunately Jassi, some people never know when to stop.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 21, 2017, 07:53:04 PM
Unfortunately Jassi, some people never know when to stop.
I'm sure you give up very easily
Others are more tenacious
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: slartibartfast on March 21, 2017, 08:02:03 PM
I'm sure you give up very easily
Others are more tenacious

This case is over.

ECHR will not overturn the case.

The best possible case scenario for the McCanns is that PT law may change in the future and they may get some compensation.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 21, 2017, 08:18:29 PM
This case is over.

ECHR will not overturn the case.

The best possible case scenario for the McCanns is that PT law may change in the future and they may get some compensation.
ECHR cannot overturn the case but can award compensation against the Portuguese government
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: slartibartfast on March 21, 2017, 08:23:13 PM
ECHR cannot overturn the case but can award compensation against the Portuguese government

That's what I said.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: stephen25000 on March 21, 2017, 08:27:41 PM
' McCann’s “frivolity” complaint rejected.

Gonçalo Amaral’s ‘libel win’ confirmed for 3rd time. '

http://portugalresident.com/mccann%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%9Cfrivolity%E2%80%9D-complaint-rejected-gon%C3%A7alo-amaral%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%98libel-win%E2%80%99-confirmed-for-3rd-time#disqus_thread

Nothing in the UK press yet. &%+((£
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 21, 2017, 08:27:49 PM
That's what I said.

You said will not
The correct phrase is cannot
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: G-Unit on March 21, 2017, 09:31:20 PM
Well thank goodness it's finally over. Amaral's faith in Portuguese justice has been repaid and he can get on with his life, different though it may be now.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: carlymichelle on March 21, 2017, 10:17:24 PM
 8@??)(  so where can the mcanns  go  from here anwhere??

http://www.stj.pt/ficheiros/tabelas/Decididas/Civeis/1s-2017-03-21.pdf
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Brietta on March 21, 2017, 10:18:48 PM
I wouldn't bank on this if I was you.  The Portuguese Justice System is now looking like real shit, and totally devoid of Justice.  Have at it, as they may.

Personally, I don't really care anymore.  I am just appalled, and nothing to be done.  The PJ still have the dregs of the fascists  which will only die when the old men die.

The day will come.

But I'll tell you what.  No other person will ever fall down some steps of a Police Station, and no one will ever be tortured again to extract a  "Confession."

This alone is what Madeleine has done for Portugal.  I do most sincerely hope that The McCanns can see this.

It is the best ever.

Prescient as always, Eleanor.

With such a display of institutionalised intransigence one wonders just how much of the Portuguese reopening of Madeleine's case was merely a smoke screen and how much was a genuine effort to find out what happened to her.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on March 21, 2017, 10:22:35 PM
You said will not
The correct phrase is cannot
Don't really matter squire.
Your prediction that Sr Amaral "was toast"  was somewhat wide of the mark.

Heads up for Call Me Mr Davel "doing a Daily Express".
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on March 21, 2017, 10:26:39 PM
' McCann’s “frivolity” complaint rejected.

Gonçalo Amaral’s ‘libel win’ confirmed for 3rd time. '

http://portugalresident.com/mccann%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%9Cfrivolity%E2%80%9D-complaint-rejected-gon%C3%A7alo-amaral%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%98libel-win%E2%80%99-confirmed-for-3rd-time#disqus_thread

Nothing in the UK press yet. &%+((£

Plenty of time yet. They are probably sitting at their whetstones.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: carlymichelle on March 21, 2017, 10:30:16 PM
Plenty of time yet. They are probably sitting at their whetstones.

the  sun never   fails to  react they adore the mcanns @)(++(*
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: carlymichelle on March 21, 2017, 10:35:24 PM
amaral said he would never let the mcanns  win and  he is  right
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: ferryman on March 21, 2017, 10:41:46 PM
amaral said he wuld never let the mcanns  win and  he is  right

It's the courts that will (apparently) never let Kate and Gerry win, even though justice and righteousness is absolutely on their side.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Eleanor on March 21, 2017, 10:43:46 PM
amaral said he wuld never let the mcanns  win and  he is  right

Ah, got that as a fact, have you?

Did you think about what you said?

Probably not.

But there you go.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: stephen25000 on March 21, 2017, 10:46:23 PM
It's the courts that will (apparently) never let Kate and Gerry win, even though justice and righteousness is absolutely on their side.

You have got to be kidding.

Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on March 21, 2017, 10:50:03 PM
It's the courts that will (apparently) never let Kate and Gerry win, even though justice and righteousness is absolutely on their side.

Like Slarti said to one of your cohorts the other day.
"You seem to have a poor appreciation of the lack of importance this case has" or something approximatively simular
It will be a mere footnote in history as the most expensive missing child case ........................ or then depending on what shows up in the fullness of time... &%+((£
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: carlymichelle on March 21, 2017, 10:50:03 PM
You have got to be kidding.

expect tantrums about this  lol @)(++(*
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: pathfinder73 on March 22, 2017, 12:33:23 AM
Prescient as always, Eleanor.

With such a display of institutionalised intransigence one wonders just how much of the Portuguese reopening of Madeleine's case was merely a smoke screen and how much was a genuine effort to find out what happened to her.

Do you think the PJ are surprised that SY have got nowhere following other leads? At least they've eliminated a lot and maybe that was the point until one remains.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Brietta on March 22, 2017, 01:19:29 AM
Do you think the PJ are surprised that SY have got nowhere following other leads? At least they've eliminated a lot and maybe that was the point until one remains.

I am certain that Scotland Yard have been working to full capacity on Madeleine McCann's case.  I am delighted that you recognise the vast elimination programme they have had to pursue in that process.  Resulting in, as we know from Portuguese sources, their interest in a man who carried out a burglary in the resort at noon on the day Madeleine disappeared.

That would appear to be their present line of inquiry ... stranger abduction with an apparently known criminal who may or may not know other criminals working the resort at the same time he was. 

Quite obviously SY cannot take the initiative to do anything regarding this Portuguese National until all the formalities have been met ... which as we know can take a considerable amount of time.
So maybe the Policia Judiciaria are less surprised about anything impeding SY progress than you might give them credit for.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: carlymichelle on March 22, 2017, 02:23:36 AM
McCanns fail to stop 'not innocent' ruling in Madeleine's disappearance
Mark Saunokonoko
By Mark Saunokonoko

Kate and Gerry McCann were dealt a damaging blow today after a Supreme Court rejected a formal complaint against a ruling which stated they were not innocent in the disappearance of Madeleine.

The McCanns have been engaged in a protracted and expensive eight-year legal battle, using money from the Find Madeleine Fund, to silence a detective who authored a book that claimed they faked their daughter's abduction and covered up her death.

Last month, Portugal's Supreme Court upheld a 2016 ruling that Goncalo Amaral's 2008 book 'The Truth of the Lie' was indeed exercising his legal right to freedom of expression.

READ MORE: McCann's reaction to sniffer dogs in apartment and rental car 'didn't make sense'

READ MORE: Abduction theories blasted as ridiculous; 'Maddie likely dead', crime expert claims

In February's ruling the judges also declared the lifting of Kate and Gerry's 'arguidos' status (a kind of formal suspect), and the 2008 archiving of the criminal investigation into Maddie's disappearance, did not mean they were innocent.

Lawyers for the McCanns, who have steadfastly claimed Maddie was abducted, described the Supreme Court's assertion as "erroneous" and "frivolous". They immediately laid the formal complaint.

Today, Supreme Court judge Dr Jorge Manuel Roque Nogueira threw that complaint out.
Play Video
Dogs specialising in detecting human cadaver and human blood were brought to Portugal in 2007, several months after Maddie vanished.

   
Amaral oversaw the original investigation into Madeleine's disappearance from the family's holiday apartment on May 3, 2007.

The McCanns were made 'arguidos' in the days following a cadaver and blood dog search that saw alerts made inside the family's holiday apartment and also a rental car Kate and Gerry hired 25 days after Maddie vanished.

The cadaver dog, trained to detect the odour of dead bodies, also registered hits on Maddie's favourite cuddly toy, Cuddle Cat, and two items of Kate's clothing.
Kate McCann, mother of missing Madeleine, holds her daughter's "Cuddle Cat" as she walks out from a mass in a Portuguese beach resort in the southern province of Algarve 10 May 2007.

Kate McCann, mother of missing Madeleine, holds her daughter's "Cuddle Cat" as she walks out from a mass in a Portuguese beach resort in the southern province of Algarve 10 May 2007. Source: AFP
Madeleine Beth McCann has been missing since May 3, 2007 from a holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal.

Madeleine Beth McCann has been missing since May 3, 2007 from a holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal. Source: AFP

Amaral was controversially removed from the investigation in October 2007, after he was deemed to have been critical of British police in an interview with a Portuguese newspaper.

The Portuguese detective later wrote a book based on the Madeleine case, and released it three days after the case was officially shelved, which was also when 'arguidos' status was lifted from the McCanns.

Amaral's book theorised Maddie had died in apartment 5A, and her body had been disposed of by Kate and Gerry.

In 2009, the McCanns launched a class action suit against Amaral and won an injunction against his book.
Former Policia Judiciaria detective Goncalo Amaral holds a copy of "Maddie: The Truth about the Lie" at its launch in Lisbon on July 24, 2008. Amaral led the investigation on the McCann case until he was removed from the case.

Former Policia Judiciaria detective Goncalo Amaral holds a copy of "Maddie: The Truth about the Lie" at its launch in Lisbon on July 24, 2008. Amaral led the investigation on the McCann case until he was removed from the case. Source: AFP

However, in October, 2010, that decision was overturned by the Court of Appeal in Lisbon, which ruled the injunction had violated Amaral's freedom of expression.

That judgement set the wheels in motion for a showdown that threatened to financially ruin the ex-police chief.

In April 2015 Amaral was ordered to pay $704,000 plus interest in damages, resulting in the freezing of his assets.

But with the help of donations from his supporters, Amaral challenged the libel ruling and won, at the same time successfully overturning the ban on his book.

The McCanns quickly lodged an appeal with Portugal's Supreme Court, which was rejected this year in February.
Kate and Gerry McCann arrive to the court house in Lisbon on June 16, 2014 for the closing arguments of the McCann couple's libel proceedings against former inspector Goncalo Amaral.

Kate and Gerry McCann arrive to the court house in Lisbon on June 16, 2014 for the closing arguments of the McCann couple's libel proceedings against former inspector Goncalo Amaral. Source: AFP

The 76-page ruling by the Supreme Court stated that no one should infer guilt or innocence on the McCann's based on their judgement.

"It should not be said that the appellants [McCanns] were cleared via the ruling announcing the archiving of the criminal case," according to public court documents.

"In truth, that ruling was not made in virtue of Portugal's Public Prosecution Service having acquired the conviction that the appellants hadn't committed a crime.

"The archiving of the case was determined by the fact that public prosecutors hadn't managed to obtain sufficient evidence of the practice of crimes by the appellants."

Amaral has reportedly authored a second, yet-to-published, book about Madeleine's disappearance.

The McCanns are believed to have one final avenue to challenge today's decision – by lodging an appeal with the European Court of Human Rights.


© Nine Digital Pty Ltd 2017

Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/world/2017/03/22/12/26/kate-gerry-mccann-fail-to-stop-court-ruling-not-innocent-in-madeleine-disappearance#zFPH67tFjpSJCq4t.99



imo it shows how supressed the uk media is compared to our australian media

 8@??)(
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 22, 2017, 06:15:50 AM
I wonder if they will go to the European Court (European Court of Human Rights, ECHR)?
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: stephen25000 on March 22, 2017, 07:24:11 AM
McCanns fail to stop 'not innocent' ruling in Madeleine's disappearance
Mark Saunokonoko
By Mark Saunokonoko

Kate and Gerry McCann were dealt a damaging blow today after a Supreme Court rejected a formal complaint against a ruling which stated they were not innocent in the disappearance of Madeleine.

The McCanns have been engaged in a protracted and expensive eight-year legal battle, using money from the Find Madeleine Fund, to silence a detective who authored a book that claimed they faked their daughter's abduction and covered up her death.

Last month, Portugal's Supreme Court upheld a 2016 ruling that Goncalo Amaral's 2008 book 'The Truth of the Lie' was indeed exercising his legal right to freedom of expression.

READ MORE: McCann's reaction to sniffer dogs in apartment and rental car 'didn't make sense'

READ MORE: Abduction theories blasted as ridiculous; 'Maddie likely dead', crime expert claims

In February's ruling the judges also declared the lifting of Kate and Gerry's 'arguidos' status (a kind of formal suspect), and the 2008 archiving of the criminal investigation into Maddie's disappearance, did not mean they were innocent.

Lawyers for the McCanns, who have steadfastly claimed Maddie was abducted, described the Supreme Court's assertion as "erroneous" and "frivolous". They immediately laid the formal complaint.

Today, Supreme Court judge Dr Jorge Manuel Roque Nogueira threw that complaint out.
Play Video
Dogs specialising in detecting human cadaver and human blood were brought to Portugal in 2007, several months after Maddie vanished.

   
Amaral oversaw the original investigation into Madeleine's disappearance from the family's holiday apartment on May 3, 2007.

The McCanns were made 'arguidos' in the days following a cadaver and blood dog search that saw alerts made inside the family's holiday apartment and also a rental car Kate and Gerry hired 25 days after Maddie vanished.

The cadaver dog, trained to detect the odour of dead bodies, also registered hits on Maddie's favourite cuddly toy, Cuddle Cat, and two items of Kate's clothing.
Kate McCann, mother of missing Madeleine, holds her daughter's "Cuddle Cat" as she walks out from a mass in a Portuguese beach resort in the southern province of Algarve 10 May 2007.

Kate McCann, mother of missing Madeleine, holds her daughter's "Cuddle Cat" as she walks out from a mass in a Portuguese beach resort in the southern province of Algarve 10 May 2007. Source: AFP
Madeleine Beth McCann has been missing since May 3, 2007 from a holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal.

Madeleine Beth McCann has been missing since May 3, 2007 from a holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal. Source: AFP

Amaral was controversially removed from the investigation in October 2007, after he was deemed to have been critical of British police in an interview with a Portuguese newspaper.

The Portuguese detective later wrote a book based on the Madeleine case, and released it three days after the case was officially shelved, which was also when 'arguidos' status was lifted from the McCanns.

Amaral's book theorised Maddie had died in apartment 5A, and her body had been disposed of by Kate and Gerry.

In 2009, the McCanns launched a class action suit against Amaral and won an injunction against his book.
Former Policia Judiciaria detective Goncalo Amaral holds a copy of "Maddie: The Truth about the Lie" at its launch in Lisbon on July 24, 2008. Amaral led the investigation on the McCann case until he was removed from the case.

Former Policia Judiciaria detective Goncalo Amaral holds a copy of "Maddie: The Truth about the Lie" at its launch in Lisbon on July 24, 2008. Amaral led the investigation on the McCann case until he was removed from the case. Source: AFP

However, in October, 2010, that decision was overturned by the Court of Appeal in Lisbon, which ruled the injunction had violated Amaral's freedom of expression.

That judgement set the wheels in motion for a showdown that threatened to financially ruin the ex-police chief.

In April 2015 Amaral was ordered to pay $704,000 plus interest in damages, resulting in the freezing of his assets.

But with the help of donations from his supporters, Amaral challenged the libel ruling and won, at the same time successfully overturning the ban on his book.

The McCanns quickly lodged an appeal with Portugal's Supreme Court, which was rejected this year in February.
Kate and Gerry McCann arrive to the court house in Lisbon on June 16, 2014 for the closing arguments of the McCann couple's libel proceedings against former inspector Goncalo Amaral.

Kate and Gerry McCann arrive to the court house in Lisbon on June 16, 2014 for the closing arguments of the McCann couple's libel proceedings against former inspector Goncalo Amaral. Source: AFP

The 76-page ruling by the Supreme Court stated that no one should infer guilt or innocence on the McCann's based on their judgement.

"It should not be said that the appellants [McCanns] were cleared via the ruling announcing the archiving of the criminal case," according to public court documents.

"In truth, that ruling was not made in virtue of Portugal's Public Prosecution Service having acquired the conviction that the appellants hadn't committed a crime.

"The archiving of the case was determined by the fact that public prosecutors hadn't managed to obtain sufficient evidence of the practice of crimes by the appellants."

Amaral has reportedly authored a second, yet-to-published, book about Madeleine's disappearance.

The McCanns are believed to have one final avenue to challenge today's decision – by lodging an appeal with the European Court of Human Rights.


© Nine Digital Pty Ltd 2017

Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/world/2017/03/22/12/26/kate-gerry-mccann-fail-to-stop-court-ruling-not-innocent-in-madeleine-disappearance#zFPH67tFjpSJCq4t.99



imo it shows how supressed the uk media is compared to our australian media

 8@??)(

Well there still appears to be no sign of what happened yesterday in the MSM.

I wonder why, as they reported the Supreme Court Decision rather quickly.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: carlymichelle on March 22, 2017, 07:37:23 AM
Well there still appears to be no sign of what happened yesterday in the MSM.

I wonder why, as they reported the Supreme Court Decision rather quickly.

our australian  media are making up for that   @)(++(*
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: G-Unit on March 22, 2017, 08:31:59 AM
 *&*%£ *&*%£
I wonder if they will go to the European Court (European Court of Human Rights, ECHR)?

They would be very foolish to do so. The case is littered with references to human rights laws and judgements. They are taken into account throughout.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: stephen25000 on March 22, 2017, 08:34:38 AM
*&*%£ *&*%£
They would be very foolish to do so. The case is littered with references to human rights laws and judgements. They are taken into account throughout.

Also, the success rate for UK cases is abysmal, and any potential compensation minimal.

Do the McCann's seriously imagine they can take the State of Portugal to court and win ?
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: carlymichelle on March 22, 2017, 08:38:23 AM
Also, the success rate for UK cases is abysmal, and any potential compensation minimal.

Do the McCann's seriously imagine they can take the State of Portugal to court and win ?

its awesome our aus media  ??   fora long time they were pro mcann
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Brietta on March 22, 2017, 09:01:06 AM
*&*%£ *&*%£
They would be very foolish to do so. The case is littered with references to human rights laws and judgements. They are taken into account throughout.

Indeed so ... and the European Laws on defamation enshrined in the Portuguese Republic's Constitution have been totally disregarded by the Portuguese courts.

What price democracy?

Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: stephen25000 on March 22, 2017, 09:17:49 AM
Indeed so ... and the European Laws on defamation enshrined in the Portuguese Republic's Constitution have been totally disregarded by the Portuguese courts.

What price democracy?


Time to get a grip Brietta and accept the decision.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: G-Unit on March 22, 2017, 09:20:21 AM
Indeed so ... and the European Laws on defamation enshrined in the Portuguese Republic's Constitution have been totally disregarded by the Portuguese courts.

What price democracy?

Two blatant injustices that we know of.  There must be many more.

The judges reached their decisions with references to human rights laws and judgements throughout. Please explain just how you think the judges disregarded the defamation laws. Otherwise you are making unsupported allegations.

Do you really expect judges to reach their decisions by scrutinising the characters of the parties involved and finding for the most 'deserving'? That suggests a grave lack of understanding of how Judicial systems work. I thought each case was judged according to the evidence presented in that case only.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: carlymichelle on March 22, 2017, 09:47:36 AM
Time to get a grip Brietta and accept the decision.

they never  will   also amaral  has talked about  counter  sueing the mcanns i hope he does
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 22, 2017, 09:49:55 AM
they never  will   also amaral  has talked about  counter  sueing the mcanns i hope he does
He will look low if he does.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Benice on March 22, 2017, 09:54:58 AM
Indeed so ... and the European Laws on defamation enshrined in the Portuguese Republic's Constitution have been totally disregarded by the Portuguese courts.

What price democracy?



Apparently there has never been a 'miscarriage of justice' case in Portugal.   Every single person in prison is guilty.

The first time a prog equivalent to our 'Rough Justice' prog is aired in Portugal - will be a great day for the Portuguese people as it will denote a giant step forward in support of real justice.          Unfortunately judging by the snails-pace speed anything 'judicial' appears to move in Portugal - that day will be a very long time coming.
AIMHO
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Brietta on March 22, 2017, 09:55:07 AM
Time to get a grip Brietta and accept the decision.

To what decision of the Portuguese courts do you refer?

The one recognising torture and punishing the victim?

Or the one recognising the right to honour enjoyed by a dishonourable ex-policeman at the expense of the right to honour of the victims traduced by him?

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/83/93/7c/83937c7f3bcae65432aeb6e75e58f1ac.jpg)
In Portugal it seems the scales of justice seem to be a little out of kilter with the European Laws they signed up to without the slightest pretence of compliance.
This is a modern democracy? ... I rather think not.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: stephen25000 on March 22, 2017, 09:59:34 AM
To what decision of the Portuguese courts do you refer?

The one recognising torture and punishing the victim?

Or the one recognising the right to honour enjoyed by a dishonourable ex-policeman at the expense of the right to honour of the victims traduced by him?

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/83/93/7c/83937c7f3bcae65432aeb6e75e58f1ac.jpg)
In Portugal it seems the scales of justice seem to be a little out of kilter with the European Laws they signed up to without the slightest pretence of compliance.
This is a modern democracy? ... I rather think not.

Perhaps you could try a more original approach than supporting Correia.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Brietta on March 22, 2017, 10:00:55 AM
The judges reached their decisions with references to human rights laws and judgements throughout. Please explain just how you think the judges disregarded the defamation laws. Otherwise you are making unsupported allegations.

Do you really expect judges to reach their decisions by scrutinising the characters of the parties involved and finding for the most 'deserving'? That suggests a grave lack of understanding of how Judicial systems work. I thought each case was judged according to the evidence presented in that case only.

I expect judges to make their rulings according to the law of the land and without bias.  If you are content that applies to the Portuguese appeal court judges that is your privilege.
My right to freedom of speech regarding what I believe an obvious miscarriage of justice is my privilege.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Brietta on March 22, 2017, 10:04:36 AM
He will look low if he does.

From what I have read I believe to do so would involve him raising an action in Britain and arguing his case under British Law.

I rather doubt that would be a wise move on his part.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Benice on March 22, 2017, 10:26:28 AM
The judges reached their decisions with references to human rights laws and judgements throughout. Please explain just how you think the judges disregarded the defamation laws. Otherwise you are making unsupported allegations.

Do you really expect judges to reach their decisions by scrutinising the characters of the parties involved and finding for the most 'deserving'? That suggests a grave lack of understanding of how Judicial systems work. I thought each case was judged according to the evidence presented in that case only.

I haven't followed the ins and outs of this like you have G - but I have to say that:-

I would not expect Judges to promote virtually as an established fact that  'insufficient evidence' always means that other evidence is definitely around to be found - and completely ignore the possibility that the reason 'insuffiicient evidence' was collected was simply because no other evidence existed to be found in the first place.

Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: stephen25000 on March 22, 2017, 10:27:30 AM
I haven't followed the ins and outs of this like you have G - but I have to say that:-

I would not expect Judges to promote virtually as an established fact that  'insufficient evidence' always means that other evidence is definitely around to be found - and completely ignore the possibility that the reason 'insuffiicient evidence' was collected was simply because no other evidence existed to be found in the first place.

If you have objections, then take it up with the Portuguese Judiciary.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: G-Unit on March 22, 2017, 10:28:22 AM
I expect judges to make their rulings according to the law of the land and without bias.  If you are content that applies to the Portuguese appeal court judges that is your privilege.
My right to freedom of speech regarding what I believe an obvious miscarriage of justice is my privilege.

If you an't or won't explain the basis of your accusations that's your prerogative. I can't see how the Portuguese judges flouted either Portuguese or European law.

Stating that they did without explaining how you reached that conclusion renders your opinion meaningless. The same applies to your accusation of 'bias'. Unfounded allegations in my opinion.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: G-Unit on March 22, 2017, 10:32:09 AM
I haven't followed the ins and outs of this like you have G - but I have to say that:-

I would not expect Judges to promote virtually as an established fact that  'insufficient evidence' always means that other evidence is definitely around to be found - and completely ignore the possibility that the reason 'insuffiicient evidence' was collected was simply because no other evidence existed to be found in the first place.

Did the judges say that though? Please explain how you reached that conclusion?
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Benice on March 22, 2017, 10:51:25 AM
Did the judges say that though? Please explain how you reached that conclusion?


Have to go out now G - will try to get back to you later on this.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Brietta on March 22, 2017, 10:54:38 AM
If you an't or won't explain the basis of your accusations that's your prerogative. I can't see how the Portuguese judges flouted either Portuguese or European law.

Stating that they did without explaining how you reached that conclusion renders your opinion meaningless. The same applies to your accusation of 'bias'. Unfounded allegations in my opinion.

In an earlier post, one of those in which I laid out my opinion of the judgement and all of which you appear to have missed reading, I quoted  " ... none so blind as those who will not see."

Perhaps it is possible you don't recognise yourself in that truism even if others can make their own judgement on that from your posts.
You see. I do you the courtesy of reading the gist of your posts and remember the general content and context ... what a pity you affect not to read mine or if you do without the same retention, if your constant demand for explanation to my train of thought rests on one previous post.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: G-Unit on March 22, 2017, 10:57:34 AM
It's the courts that will (apparently) never let Kate and Gerry win, even though justice and righteousness is absolutely on their side.

Justice is based on evidence. The McCanns were unable to provide sufficient evidence to support their complaints. The courts can't be blamed for that.

As for 'righteousness', that has no relevance to legal processes.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Brietta on March 22, 2017, 11:02:50 AM
Did the judges say that though? Please explain how you reached that conclusion?

I see you don't bother reading Benice's posts with any retention either.  Why would either myself or Benice giving you a detailed explanation of our conclusions, which in my opinion are already there to be read and understood, help your understanding?

One should wonder if you really don't understand or if you really do understand ... I think your comprehension skills are just fine though.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: G-Unit on March 22, 2017, 11:12:16 AM
In an earlier post, one of those in which I laid out my opinion of the judgement and all of which you appear to have missed reading, I quoted  " ... none so blind as those who will not see."

Perhaps it is possible you don't recognise yourself in that truism even if others can make their own judgement on that from your posts.
You see. I do you the courtesy of reading the gist of your posts and remember the general content and context ... what a pity you affect not to read mine or if you do without the same retention, if your constant demand for explanation to my train of thought rests on one previous post.

I have looked back through your posts to 17th March with no sign of an explanation for your opinions.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 22, 2017, 11:17:52 AM
If you have objections, then take it up with the Portuguese Judiciary.
Are you trying to be funny Stephen?
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: G-Unit on March 22, 2017, 11:22:14 AM
I see you don't bother reading Benice's posts with any retention either.  Why would either myself or Benice giving you a detailed explanation of our conclusions, which in my opinion are already there to be read and understood, help your understanding?

One should wonder if you really don't understand or if you really do understand ... I think your comprehension skills are just fine though.

If people post assertions the onus is on them to provide cites or links supporting what they say, not on the reader to find the information.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: stephen25000 on March 22, 2017, 11:29:47 AM
Are you trying to be funny Stephen?

Not in the slightest.

If Mccann supporters have a problem with yesterdays rejection, take it to them, rather than typing it on here.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: G-Unit on March 22, 2017, 11:34:09 AM
The UK media seem to be lagging behind on the latest libel trial news. I wonder when they're going to catch up?
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 22, 2017, 11:36:06 AM
Not in the slightest.

If Mccann supporters have a problem with yesterdays rejection, take it to them, rather than typing it on here.
They don't have to read it so it won't do any good.   
The UK media seem to be lagging behind on the latest libel trial news. I wonder when they're going to catch up?
I'm wondering if that notice was just a joke someone was pulling on us.  It would be rather easy to set up a fake notice like that.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: stephen25000 on March 22, 2017, 11:48:12 AM
They don't have to read it so it won't do any good.   I'm wondering if that notice was just a joke someone was pulling on us.  It would be rather easy to set up a fake notice like that.

Why would anyone do that Rob ?
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on March 22, 2017, 12:29:58 PM
The UK media seem to be lagging behind on the latest libel trial news. I wonder when they're going to catch up?

I think Ye Olde Currant Bun just has.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: G-Unit on March 22, 2017, 12:32:25 PM
I think Ye Olde Currant Bun just has.

So it has. Where's Ms Kandohla gone I wonder?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3149599/madeleine-mccann-parents-kate-gerry-lose-libel-case-goncalo-amaral-maddie-book/amp
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on March 22, 2017, 12:37:26 PM
You really should let go of the straw. It's over.

It is worse than the aftermath of an evening bridge rubber!. It's not over until the pointless post mortem the following morning when each player has said something like "Why the "ordinary" did you lay that ten of hearts you should have laid.....................".
Or as we hayseeds would have it "had the dog not stopped running he would have caught the bunny".

p.s I have put a tenner in the ambucopter box in pennance for using the "d" word.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: stephen25000 on March 22, 2017, 12:39:56 PM
So it has. Where's Ms Kandohla gone I wonder?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3149599/madeleine-mccann-parents-kate-gerry-lose-libel-case-goncalo-amaral-maddie-book/amp

You mean Kate Mccann's close friend, who is not in the slightest biased ?  8)--))
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on March 22, 2017, 12:49:52 PM
Well there is now a decision by the highest court in a country which is an EU Member State.
What happens next may be interesting.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: G-Unit on March 22, 2017, 12:54:47 PM
Well there is now a decision by the highest court in a country which is an EU Member State.
What happens next may be interesting.

No comments by Mitchell or their 'friend' today. Speechless at last?
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Alfie on March 22, 2017, 01:46:53 PM
No comments by Mitchell or their 'friend' today. Speechless at last?
No one likes a gloater, just sayin' like.... 8(0(*
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: jassi on March 22, 2017, 01:50:41 PM
Us sceptics don't gloat - Oh no, but just like Gerry, we can't resist having a little smirk
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: G-Unit on March 22, 2017, 02:35:00 PM
No one likes a gloater, just sayin' like.... 8(0(*

1. I was merely wondering why all the usual sources seem to have nothing to say.
2. I don't actually care about being 'liked'. I got over that years ago.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on March 22, 2017, 03:31:06 PM
At least "the right wing rag" has the neck to call it like it is:

"Madeleine McCann's parents lose third libel case to silence detective who claimed they faked their daughter's abduction"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4338616/McCanns-lose-final-court-case-silence-policeman.html
 
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 22, 2017, 04:06:38 PM
Interesting point comes to mind
Up until now the McCanns opponent has been amaral
The latest complaint is to have a decision of the Portuguese SC nullified
Their opponent now is the state of Portugal
Looks like The European Court is in their sights
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: stephen25000 on March 22, 2017, 04:19:20 PM
A reminder is needed.

The success rate of cases brought to the ECHR by UK citizens is abysmal.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 22, 2017, 04:21:44 PM
A reminder is needed.

The success rate of cases brought to the ECHR by UK citizens is abysmal.

Depends on the strength of the case
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 22, 2017, 04:27:30 PM
It may well be the McCanns knew the request for an anulment would not be successful but was necessary to ensure that an appeal to Europe succeeded
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: stephen25000 on March 22, 2017, 04:28:12 PM

It seems the Mccanns are quite happy to use donated money from other people.

Now if they try to go to the ECHR, it's about time they used money they earned themselves.

Not from donations, magazines, interviews, serialization rights, or the book.

Just from their salaries, as other people have to do (and I doubt they would get legal aid either).
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: stephen25000 on March 22, 2017, 04:34:01 PM
Another reminder.

An appeal to the ECHR has to be accepted, and it has to be precisely drawn up.

Now, taking Portugal to the court, when they have had every opportunity to do so there, stands as a  waste of time.

If their case had been more professionally constructed, then they might have succeeded. However, from the initial witness reports, before the first judge, the 'preparation' was extremely amateurish and lacking substance.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 22, 2017, 04:37:01 PM
Another reminder.

An appeal to the ECHR has to be accepted, and it has to be precisely drawn up.

Now, taking Portugal to the court, when they have had every opportunity to do so there, stands as a  waste of time.

If their case had been more professionally constructed, then they might have succeeded. However, from the initial witness reports, before the first judge, the 'preparation' was extremely amateurish and lacking substance.

All your opinion and you have zero legal qualification in this area
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Brietta on March 23, 2017, 09:40:24 AM
I don't think there's anything to worry about. I'm sure the 'learned judges' got their arguments spot on and misinterpreted nothing. They were very careful to support their arguments with reference to all the applicable laws and judgements.

If Madeleine's parents decide to test your argument in the European Court I think your argument will be found to be redundant.

It is a matter entirely for them to decide though. 
However I am sure that if they do decide to do so, the legal argument and counter argument will be fascinating.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 23, 2017, 10:11:47 AM
If Madeleine's parents decide to test your argument in the European Court I think your argument will be found to be redundant.

It is a matter entirely for them to decide though. 
However I am sure that if they do decide to do so, the legal argument and counter argument will be fascinating.
And it won't just be responded to by the words "rejected".
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 23, 2017, 10:35:41 AM
the Portuguese judges have allowed amaral to defame the McCanns which is contrary to European law
they have not respected the right of the McCanns to be presumed innocent which is contrary to European law
They have a good case imo
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: slartibartfast on March 23, 2017, 11:36:49 AM
the Portuguese judges have allowed amaral to defame the McCanns which is contrary to European law
they have not respected the right of the McCanns to be presumed innocent which is contrary to European law
They have a good case imo

No matter how many times you state your opinion as fact, the Supreme Court in an EU country has decided otherwise.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 23, 2017, 01:38:09 PM
No matter how many times you state your opinion as fact, the Supreme Court in an EU country has decided otherwise.

my opinion is that the SC have allowed amaral to defame the McCanns....and that is contrary to european law...imo
that means...imo...that the McCanns have a good case to take to Europe...imo

perhaps other posters...including you...should stop stating your opinion as fact
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: slartibartfast on March 23, 2017, 02:59:45 PM
my opinion is that the SC have allowed amaral to defame the McCanns....and that is contrary to european law...imo
that means...imo...that the McCanns have a good case to take to Europe...imo

perhaps other posters...including you...should stop stating your opinion as fact

Mine was a fact.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 23, 2017, 03:19:05 PM
Mine was a fact.

It wasn't
The SC had not decided the McCanns were not defamed
They have decided his right to free speech was more important
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: slartibartfast on March 23, 2017, 03:22:34 PM
It wasn't
The SC had not decided the McCanns were not defamed
They have decided his right to free speech was more important

I'm sure you will be able to provide the quote saying they were defamed in the SC judgement?
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 23, 2017, 03:39:04 PM
I'm sure you will be able to provide the quote saying they were defamed in the SC judgement?

I don't need to
amaral accused them of covering up their daughters death and lying to the police....a multi million pound fraud on the fund...that is defamation...he has been allowed to get away with it
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: slartibartfast on March 23, 2017, 03:41:13 PM
I don't need to
amaral accused them of covering up their daughters death and lying to the police....a multi million pound fraud on the fund...that is defamation...he has been allowed to get away with it

So the SC didn't rule that GA defamed the McCann's, The Court of Davel decided that one.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 23, 2017, 03:54:07 PM
So the SC didn't rule that GA defamed the McCann's, The Court of Davel decided that one.

the SC decided that amarals right to free speech was more important that than the mccans right to a good name
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Alfie on March 23, 2017, 06:49:18 PM
I'm sure you will be able to provide the quote saying they were defamed in the SC judgement?
I'm sure you will be able to provide the quote that they were NOT defamed in the SC judgement.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: slartibartfast on March 23, 2017, 06:52:38 PM
I'm sure you will be able to provide the quote that they were NOT defamed in the SC judgement.

As we are always told, it was for the McCanns to prove defamation, not GA to prove his innocence.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Alfie on March 23, 2017, 06:54:56 PM
As we are always told, it was for the McCanns to prove defamation, not GA to prove his innocence.
I thought it was never about libel but about damages?  wasn't that the sceptic mantra a while ago?
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: slartibartfast on March 23, 2017, 07:08:33 PM
I thought it was never about libel but about damages?  wasn't that the sceptic mantra a while ago?

You are diverting.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: jassi on March 23, 2017, 07:36:55 PM
I thought it was never about libel but about damages?  wasn't that the sceptic mantra a while ago?

I've never known what it was about. All I know is that it is over, bar the McCanns coughing up the dough.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 23, 2017, 08:02:20 PM
As we are always told, it was for the McCanns to prove defamation, not GA to prove his innocence.
That was done in the first case where the McCanns won.  It was appealed on the right to freedom of speech.  So the argument changed.  It isn't about the amount of damage entirely, but they confused the argument again by saying the McCanns had a blemished name already for there was insufficient evidence of innocence.
When in criminal law has anyone had to prove themselves innocent?  So the judges confused the situation again saying it is a civil case.
So when Amaral said the McCanns disposed of the body of their daughter that wasn't a criminal accusation but a civil one!
Can you accept that as logic?
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: John on March 23, 2017, 08:04:40 PM
Since my post made earlier today has disappeared I am posting this again in case some members haven't seen it.

The Supreme Court in Portugal have dismissed the McCann's application for an annulment of their earlier decision.

From the Court website:

Supremo Tribunal de Justiça [Supreme Court of Justice]
Descritivo: [description]
Tabela da Sessão de 21-03-2017 10:00 [ table/chart of the sitting/session on 21 March 2017 at 10.00am]
(1ª SECÇÃO) [[section 1]

Recorrente [applicant] : Kate Marie Healy Mccann
Recorrente: Gerald Patrick Mccann
Recorrido: [applied against] Gonçalo Sousa Amaral
Recorrido: Editora Guerra e Paz-Lda

decisão = [decision]
Indeferida = [dismissed]



http://www.stj.pt/ficheiros/tabelas/Decididas/Civeis/1s-2017-03-21.pdf
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: stephen25000 on March 23, 2017, 08:19:54 PM
That was done in the first case where the McCanns won.  It was appealed on the right to freedom of speech.  So the argument changed.  It isn't about the amount of damage entirely, but they confused the argument again by saying the McCanns had a blemished name already for there was insufficient evidence of innocence.
When in criminal law has anyone had to prove themselves innocent?  So the judges confused the situation again saying it is a civil case.
So when Amaral said the McCanns disposed of the body of their daughter that wasn't a criminal accusation but a civil one!
Can you accept that as logic?

Why don't you examine the reasons why the case was originally shelved, and the statement, in full, that came with it, Rob ?
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 23, 2017, 08:35:22 PM
Why don't you examine the reasons why the case was originally shelved, and the statement, in full, that came with it, Rob ?
Don't worry I have read the archiving report.  Is that "the statement"?  Or are you referring to Tavares' statement? You need to be a bit more specific.

But going back to the confusion in the cases, the first Judge said Amaral had a duty of reserve (i.e. Amaral broke Portuguese law), but subsequent Judges said that that duty of reserve does not apply to retired officers!

The ideas were formulated while he was the PJ Coordinator, He wrote the book while he was still in the PJ.  He sold the idea of publishing it along with the Newspaper while still employed, but once they agreed to promote it he resigned and 3 days later the book was published. (timeline subject to discussion) 
So any argument that it reflects the opinion of a retired PJ officer is stretching the definition to the limit.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: ferryman on March 23, 2017, 08:35:44 PM
Why don't you examine the reasons why the case was originally shelved, and the statement, in full, that came with it, Rob ?

The first investigation was shelved because there was no indication of any crime by any of the (original) 3 arguidos and all other leads appeared dead.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: stephen25000 on March 23, 2017, 08:41:05 PM
The first investigation was shelved because there was no indication of any crime by any of the (original) 3 arguidos and all other leads appeared dead.

In fact there was a lack of evidence, per se, of anything.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 23, 2017, 08:44:57 PM
In fact there was a lack of evidence, per se, of anything.
Quite so.  Therefore it is entirely defamatory for a former PJ Coordinator to say those things about the McCanns.  OK if it really was his opinion he should have sought the evidence to prove it.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: stephen25000 on March 23, 2017, 08:46:30 PM
Quite so.  Therefore it is entirely defamatory for a former PJ Coordinator to say those things about the McCanns.  OK if it really was his opinion he should have sought the evidence to prove it.

Need you be reminded yet again, it was a thesis, and and shared by others.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: ferryman on March 23, 2017, 08:46:37 PM
In fact there was a lack of evidence, per se, of anything.

Quote
The non involvement of the arguidos parents of Madeleine in any penally relevant action seems to result from the objective circumstances of them not being inside the apartment when she disappeared, from the normal behaviour that they adopted until said disappearance and afterwards, as can be amply concluded from the witness statements, from the telephone communications analysis and also from the forensics' conclusions, namely the Reports from the FSS and from the National Institute for Legal Medicine.

Lack of evidence is a sceptic-myth the appeal-court judges appear, scandalously, to have swallowed.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: stephen25000 on March 23, 2017, 08:48:45 PM
Lack of evidence is a sceptic-myth the appeal-court judges appear, scandalously, to have swallowed.

Not at all.

You don't appear to have understood yet, court action is over for the McCann's in Portugal.

However, of course, if they don't pay what they owe, it will be a different story.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 23, 2017, 08:50:14 PM
Need you be reminded yet again, it was a thesis, and and shared by others.
Shared by his mate Tavares (but that should have stayed within the investigation.  Tavares report has no factual basis but is just another list of opinion (hunches).  The archiving of the case was after the release of the book.  So that is no justification for making that public. 
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: misty on March 23, 2017, 08:54:19 PM
Shared by his mate Tavares (but that should have stayed within the investigation.  Tavares report has no factual basis but is just another list of opinion (hunches).  The archiving of the case was after the release of the book.  So that is no justification for making that public.

Amaral sold the copyright of the book to the publishers in March 2008, at which time he was still a serving officer. I do not understand how the SC court could keep referencing the final report which had not even been written at that time.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: stephen25000 on March 23, 2017, 08:57:07 PM
Shared by his mate Tavares (but that should have stayed within the investigation.  Tavares report has no factual basis but is just another list of opinion (hunches).  The archiving of the case was after the release of the book.  So that is no justification for making that public.

It wasn't just two people Rob, and others did not need to know Amaral's thesis, to share a similar belief.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 23, 2017, 08:59:36 PM
Amaral sold the copyright of the book to the publishers in March 2008, at which time he was still a serving officer. I do not understand how the SC court could keep referencing the final report which had not even been written at that time.
Quite so.  It is the timing of the release of the book in relation to his role at the time that is important, not that in 2015 he was definitely retired.

It wasn't just two people Rob, and others did not need to know Amaral's thesis, to share a similar belief.
These others are only in your imagination Stephen!

Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 23, 2017, 10:09:21 PM
Argue against the points I raised please.  I want to intensify my reasons.

1. The first case the McCanns won.  It was appealed on the right to freedom of speech.  So the argument changed.  It isn't about the amount of damage entirely, but they confused the argument again by saying the McCanns had a blemished name already for there was insufficient evidence of innocence.
When in criminal law has anyone had to prove themselves innocent?  So the judges confused the situation again saying it is a civil case.
So when Amaral said the McCanns disposed of the body of their daughter that wasn't a criminal accusation but a civil one!

2. The first Judge said Amaral had a duty of reserve (i.e. Amaral broke Portuguese law), but subsequent Judges said that that duty of reserve does not apply to retired officers!
Amaral's ideas were formulated while he was the PJ Coordinator, He wrote the book while he was still in the PJ.  He sold the idea of publishing it along with the Newspaper while still employed, but once they agreed to promote it he resigned and 3 days later the book was published. (timeline subject to discussion) 
So any argument that it reflects the opinion of a retired PJ officer is stretching the definition to the limit.

3. The Tavares report has no factual basis but is just another list of opinion (hunches).  The archiving of the case was after the release of the book.  So that is no justification for making that public.

Note according to the timeline page posted by Brietta http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8034.msg391975#msg391975 some of my points could be in error. http://newsoutlines.blogspot.co.nz/2010/11/timeline-maddie-truth-of-lie.html
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: G-Unit on March 24, 2017, 06:47:43 AM
Amaral sold the copyright of the book to the publishers in March 2008, at which time he was still a serving officer. I do not understand how the SC court could keep referencing the final report which had not even been written at that time.

The SC judges referred to the archiving dispatch because it was referred to in Duarte's appeal. She brought it up, not them.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 24, 2017, 07:37:03 AM
The SC judges referred to the archiving dispatch because it was referred to in Duarte's appeal. She brought it up, not them.
The whole thing is a house of cards one bit leaning on another but nothing of any substance.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: G-Unit on March 24, 2017, 08:00:43 AM
The whole thing is a house of cards one bit leaning on another but nothing of any substance.

The case is over Rob.  The McCanns failed to prove their allegations against Amaral and lost the case. Raking over the ashes may comfort those who refuse to accept that fact, but it won't change it.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: stephen25000 on March 24, 2017, 08:09:40 AM
The case is over Rob.  The McCanns failed to prove their allegations against Amaral and lost the case. Raking over the ashes may comfort those who refuse to accept that fact, but it won't change it.

Exactly. It does appear that some people are deluding themselves that the legal process is effectively over.

Whist an attempt could be made to go to the E.C.H.R., that too will be pointless and merely result in more expenditure.

Meanwhile the McCann's have to pay up, and if they don't, the legal action will be directed at them.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: slartibartfast on March 24, 2017, 08:20:49 AM
The case is over Rob.  The McCanns failed to prove their allegations against Amaral and lost the case. Raking over the ashes may comfort those who refuse to accept that fact, but it won't change it.

If they had wanted a different outcome, they needed a better case.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: G-Unit on March 24, 2017, 08:32:36 AM
Exactly. It does appear that some people are deluding themselves that the legal process is effectively over.

Whist an attempt could be made to go to the E.C.H.R., that too will be pointless and merely result in more expenditure.

Meanwhile the McCann's have to pay up, and if they don't, the legal action will be directed at them.

The wriggling and squirming is quite amusing but irrelevant. The process is finished and it looks like the money raised to search for Madeleine McCann will end up being paid to the Portuguese Judiciary if the directors of the Fund agree to that. Some of it will then go to Amaral and his co-defendants for their costs and legal fees.

If the directors decide not to release those funds the McCanns may face ruin. Perhaps their supporters should be addressing that problem rather than arguing about the past.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Benice on March 24, 2017, 08:36:03 AM
The case is over Rob.  The McCanns failed to prove their allegations against Amaral and lost the case. Raking over the ashes may comfort those who refuse to accept that fact, but it won't change it.

It's nothing to do with 'comfort' G.       In my case I have come to the conclusion that the vast difference in cultures between our two countries - particularly in relation to how the police and the judiciary operate are so far apart we might as well be on different planets.      Unfortunately those cultural differences worked against the McCanns on every level and every step of the way imo.

I have no doubt whatsoever that if the case had been tried in the UK - the McCanns would have won it.   Would you agree?   Just curious.


Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Brietta on March 24, 2017, 08:43:08 AM
The SC judges referred to the archiving dispatch because it was referred to in Duarte's appeal. She brought it up, not them.

Was it in the remit of the appeal court judges to include prejudicial opinion relating to a criminal case in a civil court ruling?
Particularly since the criminal case had never had charges laid against anyone nor was ever brought to trial.

Apparently so.

As a result of their ruling that Amaral's freedom of expression outweighed the McCann right to reputation it is my opinion the Portuguese judges abused their position both in law and in common decency. 

This was amply demonstrated when in their ruling they engineered a continuation of the arrogance of Amaral the self appointed prosecutor, judge and jury and they too denied the McCanns their right under European law.

In reality what happened as a result of the appeal court judges' interpretations was a demonstration of the classic definition of a kangaroo court in action.
The McCanns were not on trial.
The McCanns have never been on trial.
As far as the content of Amaral's book goes only the interim report presented by a convicted torturer was as far as it went.

The McCanns seem to have been unknowingly on trial.

A criminal trial at that and not the civil action of a defamation appeal court.
Else why the did the appeal court judges redefine the content of the Attorney General's report which formally lifted the McCann and Murat suspect status and call their innocence in a criminal matter into question?

As the tenth anniversary of their daughter's disappearance approaches the McCanns could have expected to be done with having to defend themselves and their search for Madeleine through the courts.
Sadly, that may not prove to be the case.

Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: stephen25000 on March 24, 2017, 08:46:39 AM
Was it in the remit of the appeal court judges to include prejudicial opinion relating to a criminal case in a civil court ruling?
Particularly since the criminal case had never had charges laid against anyone nor was ever brought to trial.

Apparently so.

As a result of their ruling that Amaral's freedom of expression outweighed the McCann right to reputation it is my opinion the Portuguese judges abused their position both in law and in common decency. 

This was amply demonstrated when in their ruling they engineered a continuation of the arrogance of Amaral the self appointed prosecutor, judge and jury and they too denied the McCanns their right under European law.

In reality what happened as a result of the appeal court judges' interpretations was a demonstration of the classic definition of a kangaroo court in action.
The McCanns were not on trial.
The McCanns have never been on trial.
As far as the content of Amaral's book goes only the interim report presented by a convicted torturer was as far as it went.

The McCanns seem to have been unknowingly on trial.

A criminal trial at that and not the civil action of a defamation appeal court.
Else why the did the appeal court judges redefine the content of the Attorney General's report which formally lifted the McCann and Murat suspect status and call their innocence in a criminal matter into question?

As the tenth anniversary of their daughter's disappearance approaches the McCanns could have expected to be done with having to defend themselves and their search for Madeleine through the courts.
Sadly, that may not prove to be the case.

You can type your OPINIONS until the cows come home.

It won't make a difference, and by the way, who else can you blame for how this case was initiated ?

Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: G-Unit on March 24, 2017, 09:18:09 AM
I have read the transcripts of the case and can understand how and why the McCann's case failed. It had nothing to do with Portuguese culture and everything to do with Portuguese law.

As the case wasn't tried in the UK I see no point in speculation. I will just point out that a lot of people thought they were going to win in Portugal, but they were wrong.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: G-Unit on March 24, 2017, 09:42:35 AM
Was it in the remit of the appeal court judges to include prejudicial opinion relating to a criminal case in a civil court ruling?
Particularly since the criminal case had never had charges laid against anyone nor was ever brought to trial.

Apparently so.

As a result of their ruling that Amaral's freedom of expression outweighed the McCann right to reputation it is my opinion the Portuguese judges abused their position both in law and in common decency. 

This was amply demonstrated when in their ruling they engineered a continuation of the arrogance of Amaral the self appointed prosecutor, judge and jury and they too denied the McCanns their right under European law.

In reality what happened as a result of the appeal court judges' interpretations was a demonstration of the classic definition of a kangaroo court in action.
The McCanns were not on trial.
The McCanns have never been on trial.
As far as the content of Amaral's book goes only the interim report presented by a convicted torturer was as far as it went.

The McCanns seem to have been unknowingly on trial.

A criminal trial at that and not the civil action of a defamation appeal court.
Else why the did the appeal court judges redefine the content of the Attorney General's report which formally lifted the McCann and Murat suspect status and call their innocence in a criminal matter into question?

As the tenth anniversary of their daughter's disappearance approaches the McCanns could have expected to be done with having to defend themselves and their search for Madeleine through the courts.
Sadly, that may not prove to be the case.

The judges didn't "call their innocence in a criminal matter into question", they dismissed Duarte's claim that the archiving dispatch cleared them.

I think the judges are more likely to know the purpose. function and meaning of an archiving dispatch than you are.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: stephen25000 on March 24, 2017, 09:54:24 AM
No matter how some McCann supporters may wish to prevaricate, the legal action in Portugal is over, and the McCann's have to pay up.

Now let us see, when and from what financial source(s) they do this with.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: ferryman on March 24, 2017, 10:02:34 AM
Given that the prosecutors expressly considered -- and dismissed -- lesser charges of 'neglect', it is clearly plain barking to suppose that they did not, also, dismiss (potentially) more serious charges that might have been brought.

This 'cleared' business is a misnomer. 

They were not 'cleared' because they were never charged, and therefore never in need of being 'cleared'.

More accurately, no basis for levelling charges was ever established.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: G-Unit on March 24, 2017, 10:21:17 AM
Given that the prosecutors expressly considered -- and dismissed -- lesser charges of 'neglect', it is clearly plain barking to suppose that they did not, also, dismiss (potentially) more serious charges that might have been brought.

This 'cleared' business is a misnomer. 

They were not 'cleared' because they were never charged, and therefore never in need of being 'cleared'.

More accurately, no basis for levelling charges was ever established.

Take it up with the McCann's lawyers; it is they who suggested that the archiving dispatch cleared them.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: barrier on March 24, 2017, 10:28:30 AM
Take it up with the McCann's lawyers; it is they who suggested that the archiving dispatch cleared them.

One wonders why it was brought up,it was never mentioned in the first judgement nor the first appeal,so why bring it to the supreme court.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: G-Unit on March 24, 2017, 10:42:31 AM
Lack of evidence is not evidence of anything. I also predicted the reaction of the SC to the McCann's complaint. Their claim that investigators found evidence proving them innocent was clearly doomed.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: G-Unit on March 24, 2017, 10:45:55 AM
One wonders why it was brought up,it was never mentioned in the first judgement nor the first appeal,so why bring it to the supreme court.

Desperation? Couldn't think of another argument?
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 24, 2017, 10:50:56 AM
Desperation? Couldn't think of another argument?
You usually are more thoughtful than that.  I'm sure it mattered to the McCanns that they had a reputation to uphold.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: stephen25000 on March 24, 2017, 10:53:40 AM
You usually are more thoughtful than that.  I'm sure it mattered to the McCanns that they had a reputation to uphold.

What is more important Rob, your reputation or your children's safety ?
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on March 24, 2017, 11:04:38 AM
I've never known what it was about. All I know is that it is over, bar the McCanns coughing up the dough.

Indeed. The trouble hereabouts is that with some, the penny will not drop.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 24, 2017, 11:10:26 AM
I understand the argument perfectly. Lack of evidence is not evidence of anything. I also predicted the reaction of the SC to the McCann's complaint. Their claim that investigators found evidence proving them innocent was clearly doomed.

I dispute that they claim there was any proof of innocence....evidence of innocence yes...but not proof

lack of evidence is evidence of innocence

you did not understand the argument
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 24, 2017, 11:12:36 AM
I dispute that they claim there was any proof of innocence....evidence of innocence yes...but not proof

lack of evidence is evidence of innocence
Were some full stops missed out?
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: stephen25000 on March 24, 2017, 11:21:00 AM
I dispute that they claim there was any proof of innocence....evidence of innocence yes...but not proof

lack of evidence is evidence of innocence

you did not understand the argument

A lack of evidence does not mean it doesn't exist.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Brietta on March 24, 2017, 11:49:14 AM
(https://t2.ftcdn.net/jpg/00/27/56/03/160_F_27560375_hcG5cysCMMTvZgMmgGK7Dvk5lIJMaHR7.jpg)

Sigh ... Amaral never had an ace to play but who could have imagined it was actually a loaded dice he meant.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on March 24, 2017, 11:58:38 AM
(https://t2.ftcdn.net/jpg/00/27/56/03/160_F_27560375_hcG5cysCMMTvZgMmgGK7Dvk5lIJMaHR7.jpg)

Sigh ... Amaral never had an ace to play but who could have imagined it was actually a loaded dice he meant.

Groundhog day:
"Sr Amaral played his ace ages ago. Most people did not spot it for what it was".
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: ferryman on March 24, 2017, 12:00:10 PM
(https://t2.ftcdn.net/jpg/00/27/56/03/160_F_27560375_hcG5cysCMMTvZgMmgGK7Dvk5lIJMaHR7.jpg)

Sigh ... Amaral never had an ace to play but who could have imagined it was actually a loaded dice he meant.

Yes.

Loaded dice rather than ace.

Lovely description (of something the antithesis of 'lovely').

And bang-on right ...

https://www.thediceshoponline.com/dice-sets/569/Loaded-and-Cheat-Dice

Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: G-Unit on March 24, 2017, 12:07:54 PM
You usually are more thoughtful than that.  I'm sure it mattered to the McCanns that they had a reputation to uphold.

They misunderstood the archiving dispatch completely if they believed it cleared them. Of course the case wasn't about them; it was brought because of the damage to the search for Madeleine (not proven) and the effect of the 'libel' on their other children (not admissable). Well, it was at first, then it became about them and their reputations. 
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: G-Unit on March 24, 2017, 12:15:08 PM
I dispute that they claim there was any proof of innocence....evidence of innocence yes...but not proof

lack of evidence is evidence of innocence

you did not understand the argument

You don't seem to have understood the text of the complaint;

As far as the appellants are aware of, the archiving at stake was carried out, in the course of the investigation, because sufficient proof had been gathered that the then arguidos did not commit any facts of a criminal relevance and in any way whatsoever, this conclusion substantiating an archiving for factual reasons,
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Annulment_request.htm
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: slartibartfast on March 24, 2017, 12:54:37 PM
I dispute that they claim there was any proof of innocence....evidence of innocence yes...but not proof

lack of evidence is evidence of innocence

you did not understand the argument

Lack of evidence is lack of evidence, it doesn't provide evidence of anything. Other contradictory evidence helps.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 24, 2017, 03:39:26 PM
A lack of evidence does not mean it doesn't exist.
Could that line ever be used in the court room of a criminal case?  "A lack of evidence does not mean it doesn't exist."
Someone is murdered.
The investigating officer has a hunch.
Someone is arrested and charged with murder.
They have insufficient evidence so they invent the idea of potential evidence "the lack of evidence does not mean evidence doesn't exist.
Does this potential evidence have to be found or is it sufficient to let it ride on the potential?
Will the jury find the person guilty or not guilty?

That is a damn good analogy.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 24, 2017, 03:51:41 PM
lets take it further....someone is charged with murder and found not guilty...the evidence is pathetic....does the not guilty verdict provide any evidence of innocence...of course it does. Not proof of innocence...but evidence of innocence
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on March 24, 2017, 05:37:52 PM
I have pruned and altered a number of posts re personal insults.  Please cease and desist.  8((()*/
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Eleanor on March 24, 2017, 06:03:07 PM

I don't suppose we could possibly get back On Topic, could we?

But never mind.  I will be deleting Off Topic Posts.  So wast your time if you wish.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: G-Unit on March 24, 2017, 10:18:10 PM


I expect some people are rather upset because the McCanns were unable to silence and impoverish Amaral. They were also unable to bend the Supreme Court of Portugal to their will. Hardly surprising really; accusing judges of being frivolous doesn't usually go down well.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on March 24, 2017, 10:19:48 PM


I think it has something to do with the annulment application being dismissed.
It would appear it angered some.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on March 24, 2017, 10:26:48 PM
Yeah the annulment, that is still standing yeah?  Just checking... 8(>((

So slagging of the SC, the PJ, Co ordinator,and the whole of Portugal has brought them closer to Maddie at this sad time of year... erm  um.   It would be a bit of a bummer if  IF  the person who is responsible for Maddies disappearance was British.. oh the shame of it can you imagine.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 25, 2017, 12:34:19 AM

I think it has something to do with the annulment application being dismissed.
It would appear it angered some.
I am happy it was dismissed, for now they can go to the ECHR.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 25, 2017, 02:28:41 AM
I am happy it was dismissed, for now they can go to the ECHR.

I  think the dismissal was expected but was a necessary prerequisite to the application to the ECHR
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Eleanor on March 25, 2017, 02:45:07 AM
I  think the dismissal was expected but was a necessary prerequisite to the application to the ECHR

It certainly looks that way.  And somebody has to do something about The Portuguese Justice System.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: G-Unit on March 25, 2017, 07:32:22 AM
It certainly looks that way.  And somebody has to do something about The Portuguese Justice System.

I think the Portuguese Justice System is fine.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 25, 2017, 07:43:04 AM
I think the Portuguese Justice System is fine.
afaiak its a disgrace
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: G-Unit on March 25, 2017, 08:02:57 AM
afaiak its a disgrace

If you meant AFAIK then you don't know as much as you think you do.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: stephen25000 on March 25, 2017, 08:12:55 AM
I am happy it was dismissed, for now they can go to the ECHR.


The case has to be accepted.

Highly unlikely.

There must be no flaws in the documentation, i.e. their 'case'.

Then , they are taking the state of Portugal to court, and with their actions and behaviour in Portugal, since the cases inception..........................

Probability of success, ZERO.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: ferryman on March 25, 2017, 08:20:44 AM
It certainly looks that way.  And somebody has to do something about The Portuguese Justice System.

Shouldn't that be the Portuguese in-justice system?
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: G-Unit on March 25, 2017, 08:43:00 AM
Shouldn't that be the Portuguese in-justice system?

That's right. If a complainant presents flawed evidence, blame the Judiciary.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: barrier on March 25, 2017, 08:47:51 AM
One thing to note is that Mr Amaral remains in a dignified silence,no  gloating,for him justice has been done and seen to be done.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: G-Unit on March 25, 2017, 09:04:31 AM
One thing to note is that Mr Amaral remains in a dignified silence,no  gloating,for him justice has been done and seen to be done.

Which supports his statements that his book wasn't written with any malicious intent.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Alfie on March 25, 2017, 09:06:50 AM
One thing to note is that Mr Amaral remains in a dignified silence,no  gloating,for him justice has been done and seen to be done.
No need - he has an army of gloaters to do so on his behalf.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 25, 2017, 09:07:15 AM
Which supports his statements that his book wasn't written with any malicious intent.
I think he will be lying low hoping not to be arrested by the PJ for breaking the Code of Reserve.
His book was clearly written while he was employed by the PJ.  Completely against the law in Portugal.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: stephen25000 on March 25, 2017, 09:10:43 AM
I think he will be lying low hoping not to be arrested by the PJ for breaking the Code of Reserve.

I'm afraid not Rob.

Apparently his next book is due out at the end of April.

Something tells me you will be an avid reader of it.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 25, 2017, 09:12:28 AM
I'm afraid not Rob.

Apparently his next book is due out at the end of April.

Something tells me you will be an avid reader of it.
Was it the one where he criticises the PJ?  He won't be back in Portugal anytime soon. 
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: G-Unit on March 25, 2017, 09:15:16 AM
I think he will be lying low hoping not to be arrested by the PJ for breaking the Code of Reserve.

I think that is dead in the water;

Madeleine McCann's parents to report Portuguese cop for breach of secrecy

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/madeleine-mccanns-parents-to-report-portuguese-cop-for-breach-of-secrecy/news-story/07405dcf5c9a82adea2a910119c60f91?sv=bb223ac845a7fd2514409417b33ef35d
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: stephen25000 on March 25, 2017, 09:15:24 AM
Was it the one where he criticises the PJ?  He won't be back in Portugal anytime soon.

No Rob, a new book.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 25, 2017, 09:18:50 AM
No Rob, a new book.
Could be another chance for the McCanns to get their money back.
What is the book about.  Can't be very good as they have no new evidence.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 25, 2017, 09:23:21 AM
I think that is dead in the water;

Madeleine McCann's parents to report Portuguese cop for breach of secrecy

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/madeleine-mccanns-parents-to-report-portuguese-cop-for-breach-of-secrecy/news-story/07405dcf5c9a82adea2a910119c60f91?sv=bb223ac845a7fd2514409417b33ef35d
Link not working for me.  I would think this will be the PJ taking action against Amaral not the McCanns.  Especially now that he is flush with capital again.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Brietta on March 25, 2017, 09:45:25 AM
It seems that the supreme court in Portugal throws up some interesting anomalies in relation to human rights and freedom of speech.

The European Court's decision in this particular case has interesting contrasts and parallels I thought, with the McCann v Amaral decision of the Portuguese court and could very well be the reason for "the dignified silence" in which Amaral has received his victory.

That of course and the fact he may be struggling with the manuscript of his next best seller  8(0(* which seems to be taking him longer than the three days in which he rattled out his first.

It is worth noting that it seems to have proved worthwhile for Tavares de Almeida Fernandes to have taken his case to the ECHR.
Members should not bank on it that the same will not be the case for the McCanns should they decide to take their case to a court where they can expect a fair hearing.


EU human rights court condemns Portugal for limiting free speech
IN NEWS · 19-01-2017
Portugal has been found guilty at the European Court of Human Rights and ordered to pay almost €10,000 to the journalist Tavares de Almeida Fernandes regarding an article from 2006 about the Portuguese Supreme Court elections.

In a decision published on Tuesday, the European Court of Human Rights agreed with the former editor of Público newspaper Tavares de Almeida Fernandes, who had been condemned by the Portuguese courts for the article.
Tavares de Almeida Fernandes appealed to the ECHR against having to pay €60,000 to a judge after publishing the article in September 2006 with the headline “The strategy of the spider” about the election of the president of the Supreme Court.
After having lost in various Portuguese courts, Tavares de Almeida Fernandes said that under the terms of article 10 of the Human Rights’ Convention, that the decisions breached his right to free speech and that the €60,000 compensation was “disproportionate and had a negative effect on exercising the freedom of opinion”. TPN/Lusa
http://www.theportugalnews.com/news/eu-human-rights-court-condemns-portugal-for-limiting-free-speech/40808
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 25, 2017, 09:52:21 AM
He still seems to be on the losing side.  He had to pay 60.000 euros but only got compensated 10,000 euros.  Is that how it panned out?
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: stephen25000 on March 25, 2017, 10:02:34 AM
It seems that the supreme court in Portugal throws up some interesting anomalies in relation to human rights and freedom of speech.

The European Court's decision in this particular case has interesting contrasts and parallels I thought, with the McCann v Amaral decision of the Portuguese court and could very well be the reason for "the dignified silence" in which Amaral has received his victory.

That of course and the fact he may be struggling with the manuscript of his next best seller  8(0(* which seems to be taking him longer than the three days in which he rattled out his first.

It is worth noting that it seems to have proved worthwhile for Tavares de Almeida Fernandes to have taken his case to the ECHR.
Members should not bank on it that the same will not be the case for the McCanns should they decide to take their case to a court where they can expect a fair hearing.

 
EU human rights court condemns Portugal for limiting free speech
IN NEWS · 19-01-2017
Portugal has been found guilty at the European Court of Human Rights and ordered to pay almost €10,000 to the journalist Tavares de Almeida Fernandes regarding an article from 2006 about the Portuguese Supreme Court elections.

In a decision published on Tuesday, the European Court of Human Rights agreed with the former editor of Público newspaper Tavares de Almeida Fernandes, who had been condemned by the Portuguese courts for the article.
Tavares de Almeida Fernandes appealed to the ECHR against having to pay €60,000 to a judge after publishing the article in September 2006 with the headline “The strategy of the spider” about the election of the president of the Supreme Court.
After having lost in various Portuguese courts, Tavares de Almeida Fernandes said that under the terms of article 10 of the Human Rights’ Convention, that the decisions breached his right to free speech and that the €60,000 compensation was “disproportionate and had a negative effect on exercising the freedom of opinion”. TPN/Lusa
http://www.theportugalnews.com/news/eu-human-rights-court-condemns-portugal-for-limiting-free-speech/40808

They had more than a fair hearing.

As to the ECHR, forget it.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: jassi on March 25, 2017, 10:04:05 AM
So going before the ECHR isn't necessarily a good idea and demonstrates the vagaries of going to law .

I notice, also, that it took 10 years to get a result.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Montclair on March 25, 2017, 10:05:47 AM
I  think the dismissal was expected but was a necessary prerequisite to the application to the ECHR

It was not a necessary prerequisite before making an application to the ECHR. The initial ruling by the SC was enough.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 25, 2017, 10:07:29 AM
So going before the ECHR isn't necessarily a good idea and demonstrates the vagaries of going to law .

I notice, also, that it took 10 years to get a result.
The wheels of progress turn slowly.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 25, 2017, 10:09:23 AM
It was not a necessary prerequisite before making an application to the ECHR. The initial ruling by the SC was enough.

in your opinion....and I see no reason to accept that
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: stephen25000 on March 25, 2017, 10:14:03 AM
He still seems to be on the losing side.  He had to pay 60.000 euros but only got compensated 10,000 euros.  Is that how it panned out?

That is irrelevant.

What is, was that the McCann's have lost their legal action in Portugal, and now they have to pay up, or they will; face legal action.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 25, 2017, 10:17:22 AM
That is irrelevant.

What is, was that the McCann's have lost their legal action in Portugal, and now they have to pay up, or they will; face legal action.
Amaral may have to go back to Portugal to claim his rights. 
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: stephen25000 on March 25, 2017, 10:18:29 AM
Amaral may have to go back to Portugal to claim his rights.

That lies with the courts Rob.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on March 25, 2017, 10:55:03 AM
So going before the ECHR isn't necessarily a good idea and demonstrates the vagaries of going to law .

I notice, also, that it took 10 years to get a result.

That seems to be the norm. Five years to reach review stage the if it is not bombed out at that stage as 80% are then another five years to be heard.
Exceeded only by a fraud case in India which was closed without result after nearly 40 years when the last person involved died....seriously... ?{)(**
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Brietta on March 25, 2017, 11:07:41 AM
Well they have court costs and presumably other bills to pay, including Duarte's, before they consider anything else.

I have no interest in what may come into their considerations ... that is entirely a matter for them.

What is evident ... despite protestations from some on this forum ... is that there is neither impediment to an ordinary citizen taking a case to the European Court of Human Rights.
Having done so that there is every chance of success in justice being served.

It is my opinion that the McCanns would have a very strong case to present to the ECHR. Many of the examples rehearsed by members here illustrating very obvious breaches of European Law suffered by them.

If they do decide to follow that route it will be interesting to see how many if any of the arguments made by members on the forum will coincide with the case their lawyers might present.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 25, 2017, 11:20:23 AM


it really does sum it up...it shows Brietta has the good manners not to post her opinion as fact....as others on here do
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Mr Gray on March 25, 2017, 11:21:34 AM
Well they have court costs and presumably other bills to pay, including Duarte's, before they consider anything else.

The McCanns have incredible earning power....money is the least of their worries
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 25, 2017, 11:22:43 AM

it really does sum it up...it shows Brietta has the good manners not to post her opinion as fact....as others on here do
My favourite too!
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: stephen25000 on March 25, 2017, 11:29:53 AM
The McCanns have incredible earning power....money is the least of their worries

Really.

Do you not perceive the irony of this alleged earning power from a case which was instigated by their own actions ?

Oh, by the way , can you provide a cite for this 'earning power'. ?
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: stephen25000 on March 25, 2017, 11:32:02 AM
My favourite too!

That is matter of opinion. 8(0(*
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: faithlilly on March 25, 2017, 12:03:13 PM
I have no interest in what may come into their considerations ... that is entirely a matter for them.

What is evident ... despite protestations from some on this forum ... is that there is neither impediment to an ordinary citizen taking a case to the European Court of Human Rights.
Having done so that there is every chance of success in justice being served.

It is my opinion that the McCanns would have a very strong case to present to the ECHR. Many of the examples rehearsed by members here illustrating very obvious breaches of European Law suffered by them.

If they do decide to follow that route it will be interesting to see how many if any of the arguments made by members on the forum will coincide with the case their lawyers might present.

I know you are being supportive of the McCanns Brietta but do you really think it's helpful forcing them into the position that, because their supporters expect it, they take their case to the ECHR ?
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Montclair on March 25, 2017, 12:18:24 PM
Was it the one where he criticises the PJ?  He won't be back in Portugal anytime soon.

Where do you get this idea that he is not in Portugal? Gonçalo Amaral lives in Lisbon and one tabloid took a photo of him recently drinking a beer in a café in Lisbon.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: stephen25000 on March 25, 2017, 12:24:36 PM
Where do you get this idea that he is not in Portugal? Gonçalo Amaral lives in Lisbon and one tabloid took a photo of him recently drinking a beer in a café in Lisbon.

It is what they like to believe in mythland.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on March 25, 2017, 12:30:57 PM
I know you are being supportive of the McCanns Brietta but do you really think it's helpful forcing them into the position that, because their supporters expect it, they take their case to the ECHR ?

The press seem to think it is unlikely going by all the stuff printed since 21st March 2017.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on March 25, 2017, 12:39:46 PM

http://portugalresident.com/silence-settles-over-mccann%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%9Ccostly%E2%80%9D-court-defeat
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: G-Unit on March 25, 2017, 12:42:55 PM
I know you are being supportive of the McCanns Brietta but do you really think it's helpful forcing them into the position that, because their supporters expect it, they take their case to the ECHR ?

Well, if they do and they get rejected again it might finally sink in that defamation has to be proved, not just alleged.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: stephen25000 on March 25, 2017, 12:48:08 PM
Well, if they do and they get rejected again it might finally sink in that defamation has to be proved, not just alleged.

Well as they would be taking the State of Portugal to court, it would seem very likely the case would never be heard.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Alfie on March 25, 2017, 12:50:26 PM
Well, if they do and they get rejected again it might finally sink in that defamation has to be proved, not just alleged.
If someone wrote a book in which the author claimed you had hidden your child's body and yet there was no evidence that you had done so, and following an extensive police investigation you had never been charged let alone arrested, so in the eyes of the law were innocent, would you not consider the book defamatory?  If not, why not?
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on March 25, 2017, 02:59:11 PM
Well as they would be taking the State of Portugal to court, it would seem very likely the case would never be heard.

I wonder if there will be an attempt to sequester the funds of The State of Portugal ?.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: stephen25000 on March 25, 2017, 03:08:37 PM
I wonder if there will be an attempt to sequester the funds of The State of Portugal ?.

 @)(++(* @)(++(*

I'm sure the Portuguese could give them as few Pilchards.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 25, 2017, 06:03:38 PM
Well, if they do and they get rejected again it might finally sink in that defamation has to be proved, not just alleged.
I thought it was obvious that there was defamation, so there is nothing to prove.  Anyone just need ask themselves would they like those accusations be presented in a book that make it sound like it was the truth and your own theory called a lie. 
Damages might need to be proved though.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 25, 2017, 06:05:37 PM
@)(++(* @)(++(*

I'm sure the Portuguese could give them as few Pilchards.
Have they munched through all the sardines?
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: misty on March 25, 2017, 06:55:42 PM
IMO the McCanns need to keep the Portuguese Judiciary & State onside while the investigation is ongoing. Any move to damage Portugal's reputation before a conclusion, in whatever form, is reached will mean the last 10 years of searching & court actions have been absolutely wasted.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Brietta on March 25, 2017, 10:41:28 PM
IMO the McCanns need to keep the Portuguese Judiciary & State onside while the investigation is ongoing. Any move to damage Portugal's reputation before a conclusion, in whatever form, is reached will mean the last 10 years of searching & court actions have been absolutely wasted.

I agree with that to a point Misty.  But how to gauge exactly how far the Portuguese establishment have actually been onside with them?
Should Madeleine be found I think there are those within that establishment who are of the belief that will be enough to damage Portugal's reputation.

The McCanns are indeed in a catch 22 situation ... but I think any chance for Madeleine now lies with the ECHR.
They will undoubtedly know better than I what their status is and will act appropriately.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Brietta on March 25, 2017, 10:55:50 PM
I know you are being supportive of the McCanns Brietta but do you really think it's helpful forcing them into the position that, because their supporters expect it, they take their case to the ECHR ?

Madeleine's parents will take whatever course of action they choose based on what is in her best interests.  The only expectation I have of them is that consideration for Madeleine and her brother and sister will remain at the heart of everything they do.  The word for that is love.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 26, 2017, 05:46:12 AM
Madeleine's parents will take whatever course of action they choose based on what is in her best interests.  The only expectation I have of them is that consideration for Madeleine and her brother and sister will remain at the heart of everything they do.  The word for that is love.
It is the waiting that gets me.  I'm really impatient.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: stephen25000 on March 26, 2017, 08:51:37 AM
Have they munched through all the sardines?

Is that another Tony Parsons reference again.

Now he is a rather nasty piece of work.

IMHO.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: stephen25000 on March 26, 2017, 08:55:13 AM
Madeleine's parents will take whatever course of action they choose based on what is in her best interests.  The only expectation I have of them is that consideration for Madeleine and her brother and sister will remain at the heart of everything they do.  The word for that is love.


How do you know what they might be thinking ???

However, we have this........

 “I know I'm not scared but that man has caused us so much upset and anger because of how he has treated my beautiful Madeleine and the search to find her. He deserves to be miserable and feel fear."

From the same person who was prepared to forgive an 'abductor'.

Mmmm.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: ferryman on March 26, 2017, 01:34:39 PM
IMO the McCanns need to keep the Portuguese Judiciary & State onside while the investigation is ongoing. Any move to damage Portugal's reputation before a conclusion, in whatever form, is reached will mean the last 10 years of searching & court actions have been absolutely wasted.

I hadn't thought of that.

But that is, actually, a very sage comment.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: faithlilly on March 26, 2017, 02:24:13 PM
Madeleine's parents will take whatever course of action they choose based on what is in her best interests.  The only expectation I have of them is that consideration for Madeleine and her brother and sister will remain at the heart of everything they do.  The word for that is love.

A splendid sentiment Brietta but not really borne out by their past actions.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: Alfie on March 26, 2017, 02:40:48 PM
A splendid sentiment Brietta but not really borne out by their past actions.
I thought you had previously agreed that the parents of Madeleine McCann were loving and caring, have you now changed your position? 
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: faithlilly on March 26, 2017, 03:27:39 PM
I thought you had previously agreed that the parents of Madeleine McCann were loving and caring, have you now changed your position?

Not at all however I don't think they pursued Amaral out of love for their children.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: John on March 27, 2017, 12:46:52 PM
Members are again reminded that posts should be constructive and add to the debate.  Members are allowed to express their own opinions but comments should not include attacks on other members.  If this continues temporary bans will ensue.
Title: Re: McCanns application to have Supreme Court judgement annulled dismissed.
Post by: G-Unit on September 25, 2017, 10:27:00 PM
IMO the McCanns need to keep the Portuguese Judiciary & State onside while the investigation is ongoing. Any move to damage Portugal's reputation before a conclusion, in whatever form, is reached will mean the last 10 years of searching & court actions have been absolutely wasted.

 &%+((£