Author Topic: What constitutes 'Fresh Evidence' for an appeal?  (Read 13091 times)

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Offline Nicholas

Re: What constitutes 'Fresh Evidence' for an appeal?
« Reply #30 on: April 20, 2018, 06:47:16 PM »
I wasn't privy to you communications so would have no idea.

You don't need to have been privy to any communication in order to answer the question.

You weren't privy to Jeremy Bambers communications with his legal teams but you seem to have an awful lot to say on the matter.

In fact you've even gone as far as taking sides (Bambers) and, according to recent forum posts, emailing his old barristers in order to give them a piece of your mind. Which further suggests you are emotionally involved, even if you are denying this to yourself.






« Last Edit: April 20, 2018, 07:03:40 PM by Stephanie »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: What constitutes 'Fresh Evidence' for an appeal?
« Reply #31 on: April 20, 2018, 08:29:14 PM »
You don't need to have been privy to any communication in order to answer the question.

You weren't privy to Jeremy Bambers communications with his legal teams but you seem to have an awful lot to say on the matter.

In fact you've even gone as far as taking sides (Bambers) and, according to recent forum posts, emailing his old barristers in order to give them a piece of your mind. Which further suggests you are emotionally involved, even if you are denying this to yourself.

Just a quickie as the BBQ and beer are calling.

Communications between a couple in an intimate relationship no know boundaries ie they could discuss anything and everything.

Communications between a lawyer and client can only cover certain parameters regarding the case.

I emailed MT QC shortly after meeting David who claims he met with MT QC and entered into email correspondence thereafter.  If it's true David met and received emails from MT QC then it raise serious questions about client confidentiality and data protection.  It's clear David and MT QC share the same views about the bible but both are oblivious to the fact they have no idea whose blood stained the pages as EP/FSS didn't disclose the results and JB's numpty lawyers at trial and defence didn't pursue.  The bible has since been destroyed against protocol.  This is the main reason I emailed MT QC.  I didn't expect to receive a response as I have a good understanding of client confidentiality and data protection act/law.  All emails were copied to another barrister.

I also forwarded emails from several experts which indicate the case against JB may well be fatally flawed.  A case MT QC obviously presided over at appeal.  No doubt much of it was painful reading for him.  This was Dec 2016 and further developments are not looking good for the one who can "secure a result like no other". 
« Last Edit: April 20, 2018, 08:32:31 PM by Holly Goodhead »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Nicholas

Re: What constitutes 'Fresh Evidence' for an appeal?
« Reply #32 on: April 20, 2018, 08:37:07 PM »
Just a quickie as the BBQ and beer are calling.

Communications between a couple in an intimate relationship no know boundaries ie they could discuss anything and everything.

Communications between a lawyer and client can only cover certain parameters regarding the case.

I emailed MT QC shortly after meeting David who claims he met with MT QC and entered into email correspondence thereafter.  If it's true David met and received emails from MT QC then it raise serious questions about client confidentiality and data protection.  It's clear David and MT QC share the same views about the bible but both are oblivious to the fact they have no idea whose blood stained the pages as EP/FSS didn't disclose the results and JB's numpty lawyers at trial and defence didn't pursue.  The bible has since been destroyed against protocol.  This is the main reason I emailed MT QC.  I didn't expect to receive a response as I have a good understanding of client confidentiality and data protection act/law.  All emails were copied to another barrister.

I also forwarded emails from several experts which indicate the case against JB may well be fatally flawed.  A case MT QC obviously presided over at appeal.  No doubt much of it was painful reading for him.  This was Dec 2016 and further developments are not looking good for the one who can "secure a result like no other".

You are making excuses Holly.

What kind of "intimate relationship" do you think we had following his confession to murder? Are you claiming you did not follow my posts on blue following the confession? Or posts made here?

You stated:
"Yes I feel for all Simon's supporters especially his adoptive family and Stephanie who I am sure all genuinely thought Simon innocent.  I know I would feel devastated if proved wrong re JB or he admitted to being responsible. 
I did ask myself the same q when I read this thread ie why now?  I can only think it might have had something to do with change in status ie to open prison pending release 14/15?  It's one hell of a secret to live with and I would imagine the burden was just too great. 
Perhaps we should just allow a little more time for confirmation that Simon has been seen by prison mental health professionals and that his admission is deemed safe?


"Why did he start to go off his rocker having been transferred to an open prison with a view to moving on to a bail hostel and then release Feb 2015 I think?  He had served some 10 years so why lose the plot when release was on the horizon?
Why did he confess to a burglary on the eve of the murders earlier on in the year?  Is this confession linked to the above?
Just out of interest will his confession to the murder of Mrs Albert now change his eligibility for parole and release
?

I too was initially surprised by the media seeing it as a non-event but when you think about it SH was found guilty in a court of law.  The conviction was a bit controversial as it was the first time, I believe, a defendant was convicted pretty much on fibre evidence alone.  In the absence of any other forensic evidence and SH's protests of innocence he was able to generate support for a potential MoJ from a small band of supporters.  Yet most ie public and professionals alike believe SH to be where he should be so the fact he has confessed is to most unworthy of comment. 

Now if something came to light to prove JB innocent or that his conviction is unsafe that would be a VERY BIG news story no doubt attracting global interest.  It's the reverse of SH


http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,4548.msg186617.html#msg186617

You are deluded to state the following; "Communications between a couple in an intimate relationship no know boundaries ie they could discuss anything and everything" in response to the following post:

Denial http://changingminds.org/explanations/behaviors/coping/denial.htm

Repression http://changingminds.org/explanations/behaviors/coping/repression.htm

Going slightly off topic but I think it's relevant to this thread;

I came across a letter written by Simon Hall to me on 19th Feb 2014, (4 days before he was found dead). He never finished or sent the letter but it was found amongst his belongings.

Simon Hall wrote;
"This all seems so surreal at times and I'm struggling to get my head around the fact I am guilty. It's becoming clearer to me how deep in denial I was and also how far into the back of my mind I kept all of this.

"I've been reading more and more about denial and repression. How the mind will lock things away if they're too harrowing or too painful and how this happens because the personality wants to protect its own self image. You know all this though don't you?

Why did he write "you know all this though don't you?"

He claimed he'd been reading "more and more about denial and repression," but claims "you know all this though?"

I look forward to your reply on this Holly.

And you appear to have a poor memory

Hi Mat.  Yes I agree it is a good overview. 

I don't for one minute think SH thought late SH guilty pre confession but personally I wouldn't allow myself to become emotionally involved with someone behind bars if I hadn't been emotionally involved with the person pre prison.  To my mind it's different where there's an existing relationship and he/she decides to stand by his/her man/woman.  Where no such relationship exists I think the chances are it's pretty dysfunctional.  How can you get to know someone to the extent you enter into marriage when the person had had his/her liberty removed?  I would want to check out the wedding tackle before tying the knot.   

Imagine if like this couple you find you're sexually incompatible eg too soft/gentle or too firm/rough you might find upon consummating the marriage you're then filing for divorce:

http://www.google.co.uk/url?q=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4969900/Doctor-s-indecent-assault-conviction-CONSENSUAL-sex.html&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwjO_tvImfDWAhUnCMAKHZZnD20QFggLMAA&usg=AOvVaw27Te53ipyzke4MNSvB3mhv

There seems to be some misunderstanding here.  I 100% don't believe SH ever thought Hall guilty before he confessed.  What I struggle to understand is why anyone would want to become emotionally involved with a prisoner to the extent they marry behind bars?

The difference being I support JB as I believe he's a victim of a MoJ.  I'm not emotionally involved with him in any shape or form.

What % of teenage boys spend time in youth offender institutions for violence?

From what I've read I don't believe SH knew Hall pre-prison.  They were acquainted through work.  There's knowing someone and there's knowing someone?

How can you genuinely love someone you barely know? 

I don't believe you can compare JM's relationship with JB and that of SH's with Hall.  It's not a question of whether or not the men are guilty or innocent or what JM/SH believe(d) but the emotional involvement.

JM dated JB for some 18 months and they did all the normal couple stuff.  Hall was behind bars so this was not possible.  I don't believe letters, phone calls and prison visits are a substitute.

Not only do you appear to have a poor memory you appear full of contradictions and seem to make things up in order to suit your current position. You aren't consistent. Your appear to move the goalposts when it suits you.

"Communications between a lawyer and client can only cover certain parameters regarding the case."

By stating what you have if adds further weight to my opinion that your behaviour is irrational.

You are deluded if that is how you perceive a murder trial. A psychological assessment was carried out on Bamber on behalf of his defence team. I'd call that fairly intimate wouldn't you.

Practically no part of Bambers life would have been out of bounds. Remember his defence team would have had copies of the intimate case files.

I'd say charges of mass murder of his family (including two sleeping little boys) was a big deal, wouldn't you?

Maybe the "fatal flaws" to which you refer are you own?

I've no idea what you are talking about with regards David and Michael Turner QC but we've come to learn, as you yourself have pointed out, that David is not to be trusted.

Why are you referring to "client confidentiality?" And who are you suggesting has broken this?

You appear to be making sweeping assertions you really know nothing about, but you do not appear concerned by this and carry on regardless.

You stated the following:

I get perverse pleasure out of teasing him  8(8-))

Seems more than "perverse pleasure" to me.

Didn't you recently offer to pay for future forensic testing?

When shown you're wrong you either go into denial or ignore it.  Or you become abusive and/or you use emoticons and gifs to goad. 

I recognise this in your posts Holly

Incidentally, why would you "feel devastated" if you came to learn you were wrong regarding Bamber? Sounds very much to me like you've become emotionally involved, as has been pointed out to you numerous times before.

Btw can you post a link to where Michael Turner QC has claimed he "passionately believes Jeremy Bamber is innocent." Ta
« Last Edit: April 20, 2018, 10:58:20 PM by Stephanie »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: What constitutes 'Fresh Evidence' for an appeal?
« Reply #33 on: April 20, 2018, 08:48:44 PM »
Please provide the link.

Only barristers with considerable experience in appeals are in a position to give an opinion about the likely success or not of criticism of trial/appeal lawyers.

As I said the other day it's not the ability to read but to interpret and apply in meaningful ways.

I think I can see many ways in which it could work but I might be completely wrong as I appreciate my opinion is simply a lay persons opinion based on a lay persons interpretation and understanding.   

David don't forget the link please.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

david1819

  • Guest
Re: What constitutes 'Fresh Evidence' for an appeal?
« Reply #34 on: April 21, 2018, 02:48:02 AM »
Please provide the link.

Only barristers with considerable experience in appeals are in a position to give an opinion about the likely success or not of criticism of trial/appeal lawyers.

As I said the other day it's not the ability to read but to interpret and apply in meaningful ways.

I think I can see many ways in which it could work but I might be completely wrong as I appreciate my opinion is simply a lay persons opinion based on a lay persons interpretation and understanding.   

Its from a book about the CCRC. I cant give a link nor can I attach a copy as it is too large. It has various authors, but that section I pasted is by "Dr Andrew Green" Who teaches law at the university of Sheffield.

Here is quote taken from an appeal that took place in 2008

"The Court has in the past accepted that section 23 may apply to expert evidence, and we would not wish to circumscribe the operation of a statutory rule enacted to protect defendants against the risk of wrongful conviction.  But it seems unlikely that the section was framed with expert evidence prominently in mind.  The requirement in subsection (2)(a) that the evidence should appear to be capable of belief applies more aptly to factual evidence than to expert opinion, which may or may not be acceptable or persuasive but which is unlikely to be thought to be incapable of belief in any ordinary sense. The giving of a reasonable explanation for failure to adduce the evidence before the jury again applies more aptly to factual evidence of which a party was unaware, or could not adduce, than to expert evidence, since if one expert is unavailable to testify at a trial a party would ordinarily be expect to call another unless circumstances prevented this.  Expert witnesses, although inevitably varying in standing and experience, are interchangeable in a way in which factual witnesses are not.  It would clearly subvert the trial possess if a defendant, convicted at trial, were to be generally free to mount on appeal an expert case which, if sound, could and should have been advanced before the jury. If it is said that the only expert witness in an established field whose opinion supports a certain defence was unavailable to testify at the trial, that may be thought (save in unusual circumstances) to reflect on the acceptability of that opinion."


The power to receive fresh evidence is discretionary, so it depends in part who the judges are and probably what mood they are in that day.



david1819

  • Guest
Re: What constitutes 'Fresh Evidence' for an appeal?
« Reply #35 on: April 21, 2018, 04:14:52 AM »
Just a quickie as the BBQ and beer are calling.

Communications between a couple in an intimate relationship no know boundaries ie they could discuss anything and everything.

Communications between a lawyer and client can only cover certain parameters regarding the case.

I emailed MT QC shortly after meeting David who claims he met with MT QC and entered into email correspondence thereafter.  If it's true David met and received emails from MT QC then it raise serious questions about client confidentiality and data protection.

Considering that his client wrote to me asking me to visit him and even included in the letter "Say Jeremy told you to go" and the Bar code allows discussion with other parties so long as he "is satisfied that it is in the lay client's best interests"

Nothing wrong what so ever.


It's clear David and MT QC share the same views about the bible but both are oblivious to the fact they have no idea whose blood stained the pages as EP/FSS didn't disclose the results and JB's numpty lawyers at trial and defence didn't pursue.  The bible has since been destroyed against protocol.  This is the main reason I emailed MT QC.  I didn't expect to receive a response as I have a good understanding of client confidentiality and data protection act/law.  All emails were copied to another barrister.

I also forwarded emails from several experts which indicate the case against JB may well be fatally flawed.  A case MT QC obviously presided over at appeal.  No doubt much of it was painful reading for him.  This was Dec 2016 and further developments are not looking good for the one who can "secure a result like no other".

Work has been carried out, things are moving forward. What do you think all the fundraising was for that started in October of 2016? No point making condemnatory statements claiming those involved are "oblivious" when you are not even acquainted with the most recent developments yourself.

Your uncooperative attitude and scornful grumblings are totally uncalled for. Not long ago the blue forum was taken over by guiltards with just Mike using magic spirit pogs to try and solve the case. Wile you were stuck here buried under Scipio's relentless wrath without much hope in sight.

What do you have to complain about? Nothing!
« Last Edit: April 21, 2018, 04:49:42 AM by David1819 »

Offline Nicholas

Re: What constitutes 'Fresh Evidence' for an appeal?
« Reply #36 on: April 21, 2018, 08:11:34 AM »
Its from a book about the CCRC. I cant give a link nor can I attach a copy as it is too large. It has various authors, but that section I pasted is by "Dr Andrew Green" Who teaches law at the university of Sheffield.

Here is quote taken from an appeal that took place in 2008

"The Court has in the past accepted that section 23 may apply to expert evidence, and we would not wish to circumscribe the operation of a statutory rule enacted to protect defendants against the risk of wrongful conviction.  But it seems unlikely that the section was framed with expert evidence prominently in mind.  The requirement in subsection (2)(a) that the evidence should appear to be capable of belief applies more aptly to factual evidence than to expert opinion, which may or may not be acceptable or persuasive but which is unlikely to be thought to be incapable of belief in any ordinary sense. The giving of a reasonable explanation for failure to adduce the evidence before the jury again applies more aptly to factual evidence of which a party was unaware, or could not adduce, than to expert evidence, since if one expert is unavailable to testify at a trial a party would ordinarily be expect to call another unless circumstances prevented this.  Expert witnesses, although inevitably varying in standing and experience, are interchangeable in a way in which factual witnesses are not.  It would clearly subvert the trial possess if a defendant, convicted at trial, were to be generally free to mount on appeal an expert case which, if sound, could and should have been advanced before the jury. If it is said that the only expert witness in an established field whose opinion supports a certain defence was unavailable to testify at the trial, that may be thought (save in unusual circumstances) to reflect on the acceptability of that opinion."


The power to receive fresh evidence is discretionary, so it depends in part who the judges are and probably what mood they are in that day.

I can - it's edited by Michael Naughton! "The Criminal Cases Review Commision - Hope for the innocent"

The very same Michael Naughton who represented Simon Hall around the time he confessed in 2013
Dr Michael Naughton told how he received a letter last week from Hall's wife Stephanie telling him her husband had admitted the murder and asking him to close the case down. There was no letter btw
"We are not shocked - we are alive to the possibility that a lot of people who say they are innocent are not.
"We are looking for needles in haystacks in our project.
"It is quite sad in terms of the waste of resources and the distress to (Mrs Albert's) family members when it turns out like this."
And the "thousands of hours" Bristol law students have spent on the Hall case, said Dr Naughton, could easily have been spent on "somebody else's case".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-23630287

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=nS8WDAAAQBAJ&pg=PA47&lpg=PA47&dq=The+main+explanations+for+not+adducing+evidence+that+defence+lawyers+could+have+obtained+and/or+used+in+earlier+court+proceedings+is+that+they+were+negligent,+incompetent,+indifferent+or+made+poor+judgments+about+how+to+conduct+their+clients’+cases.+Such+allegations+are+frequently+made+by+those+who+believe+themselves+to+have+been+wrongly+convicted,+but+they+are+very+hard+to+substantiate.+There+appears+to+be+an+assumption+that+defence&source=bl&ots=zexUImZfzs&sig=V84R4qtY-8n03JE7mXm-0JT2Ccg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi3y9PH58raAhWNxaYKHbIXDRgQ6AEwAHoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=The%20main%20explanations%20for%20not%20adducing%20evidence%20that%20defence%20lawyers%20could%20have%20obtained%20and%2For%20used%20in%20earlier%20court%20proceedings%20is%20that%20they%20were%20negligent%2C%20incompetent%2C%20indifferent%20or%20made%20poor%20judgments%20about%20how%20to%20conduct%20their%20clients’%20cases.%20Such%20allegations%20are%20frequently%20made%20by%20those%20who%20believe%20themselves%20to%20have%20been%20wrongly%20convicted%2C%20but%20they%20are%20very%20hard%20to%20substantiate.%20There%20appears%20to%20be%20an%20assumption%20that%20defence&f=false

Michael Naughton Simon Hall case https://insidetime.org/the-criminal-cases-review-commission-hope-for-the-innocent/

Andrew Green https://innocent.org.uk/about/     
http://www.thejusticegap.com/2016/04/investigative-competence-ccrc-innocence-projects/

I have emails from Andrew Green somewhere

28th Septempber 2010
"I hope you appreciate that Michael Naughton from the Bristol Innocence Project will be speaking at the meeting, and that it is an open, public meeting, with a large number of people present. Details available at http://www.unitedagainstinjustice.org.uk/MOJ%2010%20day/2010flyer.html
I don't want to take sides in any dispute that doesn't concern me directly, but you do seem to have alienated a lot of people who would otherwise be willing to give support to Simon, simply because they want to see an innocent person exonerated. I don't want trouble at our meeting any more than you do, so we'll do all we can to avoid it.
Andrew
INNOCENT
challenging miscarriages of justice since 1993

"Alienation The act of cutting off or interfering with an individual's relationships with others http://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/2015/10/21/alienation

United Against Injustice - Billy Middleton, Kevin Craigie to name but a few
https://insidetime.org/its-yesterday-once-more/ (read the comments under each article)
https://insidetime.org/heaven-from-hell/

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=367.0
« Last Edit: April 21, 2018, 11:51:57 AM by Stephanie »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: What constitutes 'Fresh Evidence' for an appeal?
« Reply #37 on: April 21, 2018, 09:53:30 AM »
Its from a book about the CCRC. I cant give a link nor can I attach a copy as it is too large. It has various authors, but that section I pasted is by "Dr Andrew Green" Who teaches law at the university of Sheffield.

Here is quote taken from an appeal that took place in 2008

"The Court has in the past accepted that section 23 may apply to expert evidence, and we would not wish to circumscribe the operation of a statutory rule enacted to protect defendants against the risk of wrongful conviction.  But it seems unlikely that the section was framed with expert evidence prominently in mind.  The requirement in subsection (2)(a) that the evidence should appear to be capable of belief applies more aptly to factual evidence than to expert opinion, which may or may not be acceptable or persuasive but which is unlikely to be thought to be incapable of belief in any ordinary sense. The giving of a reasonable explanation for failure to adduce the evidence before the jury again applies more aptly to factual evidence of which a party was unaware, or could not adduce, than to expert evidence, since if one expert is unavailable to testify at a trial a party would ordinarily be expect to call another unless circumstances prevented this.  Expert witnesses, although inevitably varying in standing and experience, are interchangeable in a way in which factual witnesses are not.  It would clearly subvert the trial possess if a defendant, convicted at trial, were to be generally free to mount on appeal an expert case which, if sound, could and should have been advanced before the jury. If it is said that the only expert witness in an established field whose opinion supports a certain defence was unavailable to testify at the trial, that may be thought (save in unusual circumstances) to reflect on the acceptability of that opinion."


The power to receive fresh evidence is discretionary, so it depends in part who the judges are and probably what mood they are in that day.

"What NJEC plans to do

We would assess cases for their eligibility. This depends on two matters:

-  That the person seeking our help (the applicant) has been convicted through use of the joint enterprise law (see above) rather than a similar law such as conspiracy or any other law. The words 'joint enterprise' or 'common purpose' should appear in the trial summing up, applied specifically to the applicant as a defendant.

-  That the person claims to be innocent of the crime of which she or he is convicted, under the law as it stands at the time of the conviction.

This means that we would be prepared to help people who may be guilty of a less serious offence than the offence of which they were convicted (such as theft rather than murder).

We will consider cases where the law may have been applied unjustly, such as those in which prosecution evidence appears to be clearly inadequate.

But we would not be able to help people who are guilty of a serious crime according to the law, however unfair we may think the law is: for example, people who play a minor part in a crime but know that the crime is going to take place.

We would next assess whether we can offer assistance with the applicant's case. We may either work on the case ourselves, or we may refer it to another organisation if we think that organisation could do more to help than we can. We may continue to work on a case together with another organisation, such as a university student innocence project.

We would keep all applicants informed about the progress of their case and we would seek their approval, suggestions and permission before undertaking any important work or referring their case to another organisation. By 'applicants' we mean applicants and their families or other supporters acting with the consent of the applicants.

How quickly we can work and respond to applications depends on how many applications we receive and how many competent people we can find to join our team. We cannot make any promises about how quickly we will respond, and if we cannot handle cases for practical reasons, we will tell people honestly what the problem is.

All applications, supporting material and any fresh material we obtain will be treated as confidential, unless we have obtained permission from applicants to share the material or use it for agreed publicity purposes. But it should be noted that none of the casework team are qualified lawyers and none of our communications are legally privileged.

This is a free service. We will not ask applicants, their families or their supporters for money to support the work we do. If we find additional sources of help, such as experts and lawyers, we will aim to find these at no cost to applicants. We believe that innocent victims of miscarriages of justice should not have to pay to put right the mistakes of the criminal justice system. In our experience, casework takes a lot of time but does not need much money. We hope to obtain some help from sympathetic organisations.

Who we are

Andrew Green
Andrew has 20 years' experience of analysing miscarriage of justice cases, many of them involving joint enterprise. He works mainly with INNOCENT on appeals and applications to the Criminal Cases Review Commission, with some successes. He is Chairperson of United Against Injustice and Deputy Director of the University of Sheffield School of Law Innocence Project. His PhD was awarded for a thesis on the construction of wrongful convictions. He is the author of Power Resistance Knowledge: the Epistemology of Policing.

Ange Drozdowski
Ange has been involved with United Against Injustice for over 8 years, and has been part of the planning and running of the National UAI days on the last five occasions, including chairing the meeting in Birmingham in 2011. She is an active member of Innocent and Yorkshire and Humberside against Injustice and will consult with members privately if they are nervous of speaking in a group. Ange is a qualified plumber and plumbing instructor and taught a practical plumbing course in HMP Ranby for two and a half years.

Ashleigh Towers
Ashleigh campaigns on behalf of her brother Jordan Towers, who was wrongly convicted under Joint Enterprise for murder. For the past 5 years she has worked hard to progress Jordan's case. She is part of team that has secured a Judicial Review in the near future for Jordan, which hopefully will lead to an appeal against his conviction. Ashleigh has experience in working closely with solicitors, advising them and attending meetings. She has experience with CCRC applications and extensive knowledge of Joint Enterprise and Human Rights law. Ashleigh lobbied the Government on the yourGov website in relation to Joint Enterprise which played a crucial part in Lord Ouseley raising the subject with Parliament, and which played a significant role in the Parliamentary Justice Committee's decision to inquire into the Joint Enterprise doctrine. Ashleigh also has experience in advising others on various subjects in relation to the law where a miscarriage of justice has occurred and will give any case she works on as much hard work and dedication as she has given her brother's and others alike.

Audra McKenna
Currently campaigning on behalf of her son Wesley Porter wrongly convicted under joint enterprise for murder. Audra has experience liaising with solicitors and communicating with appropriate contacts for advice and information on various specialist aspects of a given case. What she doesn't know herself, she seeks to find out, and is never afraid to draw on the knowledge of others in the team. The compassion and commitment she shows in her 9-5 job is evident in the work she does for others suffering injustice. Founder member of AIM (Against Injustice Merseyside) and represents it at United Against Injustice (UAI).

Billy Middleton
Billy founded the Wrongly Accused Person organisation in 2009 following his own experience with the justice system. He has been reviewing cases ever since and where appropriate helping people highlight their plights to in a way capable of changing public opinion with some success. Many are Joint Enterprise case. He has assisted with appeals and applications to the Criminal Cases Review Commission liaising with solicitors, expert witnesses and the Media.

Sandra Lean
Sandra Lean has 9 years experience of investigating and researching wrongful convictions. She works with individuals and families, as well as professionals in the legal and voluntary sectors, assisting with appeals and applications to the S/CCRC. A PhD candidate, funded by the Scottish Centre for Crime and Justice Research (SCCJR) at Stirling University, she is about to submit a thesis on the gap between public perceptions of the CJS and its actual operations. She has a specialist paralegal qualification in criminal law and is the author of No Smoke; The Shocking Truth about British Justice. Sandra is a trustee of the charity organisation Wrongly Accused Person.

Each member of the team will take on a case load that she or he thinks is practical. Casework will be discussed regularly with other team members, who will support and learn from each other. If a case is taken on by a member who appears to be less experienced than others, that case will be reviewed to the same standard as any other case through these sharing and consultation arrangements.

Research
We intend to use the information contained in the cases for research purposes, to be carried out by members of the casework team. From the outset the team will include scholars (see above) who have a track record of qualitative research into miscarriage of justice cases, and who, like the rest of the team, have personal experience of involvement in joint enterprise cases that have led to the conviction of innocent people.

We will only use cases for research purposes with the clear permission of those whose cases they are. We will only identify the persons concerned if they wish us to do so.

We will use the information from the cases to discover how the use of the joint enterprise law by police, prosecutors and judges leads to the conviction of innocent people. We will aim to explain how the law has been developed with the result that it now has these effects, exposing the root cause of the problems we find in the cases.

We hope to attract funding for our research, which may be carried out by individuals who are members of our casework team and in conjunction with an established university department.

Our research results will be made freely available for everyone to use. We hope that they will be used to change how the general public view joint enterprise prosecutions, through media coverage that is more sympathetic to the victims' point of view.

We hope that judges and prosecutors will become more aware of how easily injustice can occur in joint enterprise prosecutions, and take steps to prevent injustices. As a result, the police will have to work harder and better to find out who really is guilty.

We hope that when politicians change the law, they will be better informed about the dangers of the present law, and make better law as a consequence. http://www.mojuk.org.uk/WMAI/jointenterprisemark2.




I have strong doubts regarding Dr Andrew Green's judgement http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=89.msg766#msg766
and I concur with what John states here http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=89.msg863#msg863


"To members of INNOCENT
This is a reminder that our next meeting will be on Wednesday, 7 March, starting at 7.00 pm, in the usual venue the Royal Oak pub in Union Street, Oldham OL1 1EN.
Members of INNOCENT have noticed that another meeting has been arranged in Manchester on the same date and at the same time by Gloria Morrison and Janet Cunliffe, who are members of JENGBA (Joint Enterprise Not Guilty By Association). This is the first of a series of meetings arranged to coincide with ours. JENGBA has contacted members of INNOCENT and urged them to attend their meetings rather than ours.
We have asked Gloria and Janet to change the date of their meetings so that INNOCENT members can attend meetings of both organisations if they wish, and do not feel forced into choosing one organisation over another. But they have flatly refused to change their meetings to different dates
.
We have been saddened by the discovery that this is a deliberately hostile act. We would like to ignore this childish behaviour and we hope that all INNOCENT members will do so. JENGBA has an excellent record of publicising the terrible and frightening way in which the joint enterprise law is being used to convict innocent people, and we would not wish to prevent members of INNOCENT whose cases involve the use of joint enterprise law from participating in JENGBA's activities. The aims of INNOCENT and the aims of JENGBA are completely compatible.
But although JENGBA offers to help people with their cases, in practice it does not help anyone, and we know of no cases which it has helped to progress in any way. INNOCENT, on the other hand, has a 19 year record of helping with cases, some of which have progressed to successful appeals and the release of innocent prisoners.
Members of INNOCENT know that our meetings are of key importance for our casework. In meetings we exchange information, are brought up to date on cases, clarify the details of what has happened in them, and give support to families. It is essential that members attend meetings if they possibly can. We cannot guarantee to continue supporting cases if the families or supporters concerned stop attending our meetings.
We look forward to seeing you all on 7 March and on subsequent regular meetings of INNOCENT.

Andrew Green
Secretary
INNOCENT  /  <innocent@uk2.net>
challenging miscarriages of justice since 1993

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=8119.0
« Last Edit: April 21, 2018, 10:53:14 AM by Stephanie »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: What constitutes 'Fresh Evidence' for an appeal?
« Reply #38 on: April 21, 2018, 10:26:58 AM »
Considering that his client wrote to me asking me to visit him and even included in the letter "Say Jeremy told you to go" and the Bar code allows discussion with other parties so long as he "is satisfied that it is in the lay client's best interests"

Nothing wrong what so ever.


Work has been carried out, things are moving forward. What do you think all the fundraising was for that started in October of 2016? No point making condemnatory statements claiming those involved are "oblivious" when you are not even acquainted with the most recent developments yourself.

Your uncooperative attitude and scornful grumblings are totally uncalled for. Not long ago the blue forum was taken over by guiltards with just Mike using magic spirit pogs to try and solve the case. Wile you were stuck here buried under Scipio's relentless wrath without much hope in sight.

What do you have to complain about? Nothing!

You are being groomed by Jeremy Bamber David! https://neuroinstincts.com/grooming-embarking-on-a-romantic-relationship-with-a-psychopath/

"Grooming is the art of covertly holding influence 24/7, 365 days a year over another person’s thoughts and emotions. It’s the art of making people pay complete, total, and focused attention on meeting YOUR needs in some Machiavellian, devious, egocentric way.
http://flyingmonkeysdenied.com/2016/05/25/narcissists-and-sociopaths-groom-victims-to-enable-abuse/
« Last Edit: April 21, 2018, 11:35:12 AM by Stephanie »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: What constitutes 'Fresh Evidence' for an appeal?
« Reply #39 on: April 21, 2018, 10:58:35 AM »
Its from a book about the CCRC. I cant give a link nor can I attach a copy as it is too large. It has various authors, but that section I pasted is by "Dr Andrew Green" Who teaches law at the university of Sheffield.

Here is quote taken from an appeal that took place in 2008

"The Court has in the past accepted that section 23 may apply to expert evidence, and we would not wish to circumscribe the operation of a statutory rule enacted to protect defendants against the risk of wrongful conviction.  But it seems unlikely that the section was framed with expert evidence prominently in mind.  The requirement in subsection (2)(a) that the evidence should appear to be capable of belief applies more aptly to factual evidence than to expert opinion, which may or may not be acceptable or persuasive but which is unlikely to be thought to be incapable of belief in any ordinary sense. The giving of a reasonable explanation for failure to adduce the evidence before the jury again applies more aptly to factual evidence of which a party was unaware, or could not adduce, than to expert evidence, since if one expert is unavailable to testify at a trial a party would ordinarily be expect to call another unless circumstances prevented this.  Expert witnesses, although inevitably varying in standing and experience, are interchangeable in a way in which factual witnesses are not.  It would clearly subvert the trial possess if a defendant, convicted at trial, were to be generally free to mount on appeal an expert case which, if sound, could and should have been advanced before the jury. If it is said that the only expert witness in an established field whose opinion supports a certain defence was unavailable to testify at the trial, that may be thought (save in unusual circumstances) to reflect on the acceptability of that opinion."


The power to receive fresh evidence is discretionary, so it depends in part who the judges are and probably what mood they are in that .day.

National Training Conference on Investigating Miscarriages of Justice 2018
"Mark Newby, solicitor advocate, possibly the UK's foremost criminal appeal lawyer and a long term active supporter of innocence projects MJRCs, will talk about his recent successes and the technicalities of putting together an appeal case. Andrew Green, is the Director of the Miscarriages of Justice Review Centre at the University of Sheffield. Andrew also runs INNOCENT and has a long history of working with the families and victims of Miscarriages of Justice.
http://events.manchester.ac.uk/event/event:v7f-jdftuiyz-ea4yoz/national-training-conference-on-investigating-miscarriages-of-justice-2018
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: What constitutes 'Fresh Evidence' for an appeal?
« Reply #40 on: April 21, 2018, 04:05:03 PM »
"What NJEC plans to do

We would assess cases for their eligibility. This depends on two matters:

-  That the person seeking our help (the applicant) has been convicted through use of the joint enterprise law (see above) rather than a similar law such as conspiracy or any other law. The words 'joint enterprise' or 'common purpose' should appear in the trial summing up, applied specifically to the applicant as a defendant.

-  That the person claims to be innocent of the crime of which she or he is convicted, under the law as it stands at the time of the conviction.

This means that we would be prepared to help people who may be guilty of a less serious offence than the offence of which they were convicted (such as theft rather than murder).

We will consider cases where the law may have been applied unjustly, such as those in which prosecution evidence appears to be clearly inadequate.

But we would not be able to help people who are guilty of a serious crime according to the law, however unfair we may think the law is: for example, people who play a minor part in a crime but know that the crime is going to take place.

We would next assess whether we can offer assistance with the applicant's case. We may either work on the case ourselves, or we may refer it to another organisation if we think that organisation could do more to help than we can. We may continue to work on a case together with another organisation, such as a university student innocence project.

We would keep all applicants informed about the progress of their case and we would seek their approval, suggestions and permission before undertaking any important work or referring their case to another organisation. By 'applicants' we mean applicants and their families or other supporters acting with the consent of the applicants.

How quickly we can work and respond to applications depends on how many applications we receive and how many competent people we can find to join our team. We cannot make any promises about how quickly we will respond, and if we cannot handle cases for practical reasons, we will tell people honestly what the problem is.

All applications, supporting material and any fresh material we obtain will be treated as confidential, unless we have obtained permission from applicants to share the material or use it for agreed publicity purposes. But it should be noted that none of the casework team are qualified lawyers and none of our communications are legally privileged.

This is a free service. We will not ask applicants, their families or their supporters for money to support the work we do. If we find additional sources of help, such as experts and lawyers, we will aim to find these at no cost to applicants. We believe that innocent victims of miscarriages of justice should not have to pay to put right the mistakes of the criminal justice system. In our experience, casework takes a lot of time but does not need much money. We hope to obtain some help from sympathetic organisations.

Who we are

Andrew Green
Andrew has 20 years' experience of analysing miscarriage of justice cases, many of them involving joint enterprise. He works mainly with INNOCENT on appeals and applications to the Criminal Cases Review Commission, with some successes. He is Chairperson of United Against Injustice and Deputy Director of the University of Sheffield School of Law Innocence Project. His PhD was awarded for a thesis on the construction of wrongful convictions. He is the author of Power Resistance Knowledge: the Epistemology of Policing.

Ange Drozdowski
Ange has been involved with United Against Injustice for over 8 years, and has been part of the planning and running of the National UAI days on the last five occasions, including chairing the meeting in Birmingham in 2011. She is an active member of Innocent and Yorkshire and Humberside against Injustice and will consult with members privately if they are nervous of speaking in a group. Ange is a qualified plumber and plumbing instructor and taught a practical plumbing course in HMP Ranby for two and a half years.

Ashleigh Towers
Ashleigh campaigns on behalf of her brother Jordan Towers, who was wrongly convicted under Joint Enterprise for murder. For the past 5 years she has worked hard to progress Jordan's case. She is part of team that has secured a Judicial Review in the near future for Jordan, which hopefully will lead to an appeal against his conviction. Ashleigh has experience in working closely with solicitors, advising them and attending meetings. She has experience with CCRC applications and extensive knowledge of Joint Enterprise and Human Rights law. Ashleigh lobbied the Government on the yourGov website in relation to Joint Enterprise which played a crucial part in Lord Ouseley raising the subject with Parliament, and which played a significant role in the Parliamentary Justice Committee's decision to inquire into the Joint Enterprise doctrine. Ashleigh also has experience in advising others on various subjects in relation to the law where a miscarriage of justice has occurred and will give any case she works on as much hard work and dedication as she has given her brother's and others alike.

Audra McKenna
Currently campaigning on behalf of her son Wesley Porter wrongly convicted under joint enterprise for murder. Audra has experience liaising with solicitors and communicating with appropriate contacts for advice and information on various specialist aspects of a given case. What she doesn't know herself, she seeks to find out, and is never afraid to draw on the knowledge of others in the team. The compassion and commitment she shows in her 9-5 job is evident in the work she does for others suffering injustice. Founder member of AIM (Against Injustice Merseyside) and represents it at United Against Injustice (UAI).

Billy Middleton
Billy founded the Wrongly Accused Person organisation in 2009 following his own experience with the justice system. He has been reviewing cases ever since and where appropriate helping people highlight their plights to in a way capable of changing public opinion with some success. Many are Joint Enterprise case. He has assisted with appeals and applications to the Criminal Cases Review Commission liaising with solicitors, expert witnesses and the Media.

Sandra Lean
Sandra Lean has 9 years experience of investigating and researching wrongful convictions. She works with individuals and families, as well as professionals in the legal and voluntary sectors, assisting with appeals and applications to the S/CCRC. A PhD candidate, funded by the Scottish Centre for Crime and Justice Research (SCCJR) at Stirling University, she is about to submit a thesis on the gap between public perceptions of the CJS and its actual operations. She has a specialist paralegal qualification in criminal law and is the author of No Smoke; The Shocking Truth about British Justice. Sandra is a trustee of the charity organisation Wrongly Accused Person.

Each member of the team will take on a case load that she or he thinks is practical. Casework will be discussed regularly with other team members, who will support and learn from each other. If a case is taken on by a member who appears to be less experienced than others, that case will be reviewed to the same standard as any other case through these sharing and consultation arrangements.

Research
We intend to use the information contained in the cases for research purposes, to be carried out by members of the casework team. From the outset the team will include scholars (see above) who have a track record of qualitative research into miscarriage of justice cases, and who, like the rest of the team, have personal experience of involvement in joint enterprise cases that have led to the conviction of innocent people.

We will only use cases for research purposes with the clear permission of those whose cases they are. We will only identify the persons concerned if they wish us to do so.

We will use the information from the cases to discover how the use of the joint enterprise law by police, prosecutors and judges leads to the conviction of innocent people. We will aim to explain how the law has been developed with the result that it now has these effects, exposing the root cause of the problems we find in the cases.

We hope to attract funding for our research, which may be carried out by individuals who are members of our casework team and in conjunction with an established university department.

Our research results will be made freely available for everyone to use. We hope that they will be used to change how the general public view joint enterprise prosecutions, through media coverage that is more sympathetic to the victims' point of view.

We hope that judges and prosecutors will become more aware of how easily injustice can occur in joint enterprise prosecutions, and take steps to prevent injustices. As a result, the police will have to work harder and better to find out who really is guilty.

We hope that when politicians change the law, they will be better informed about the dangers of the present law, and make better law as a consequence. http://www.mojuk.org.uk/WMAI/jointenterprisemark2.




I have strong doubts regarding Dr Andrew Green's judgement http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=89.msg766#msg766
and I concur with what John states here http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=89.msg863#msg863


"To members of INNOCENT
This is a reminder that our next meeting will be on Wednesday, 7 March, starting at 7.00 pm, in the usual venue the Royal Oak pub in Union Street, Oldham OL1 1EN.
Members of INNOCENT have noticed that another meeting has been arranged in Manchester on the same date and at the same time by Gloria Morrison and Janet Cunliffe, who are members of JENGBA (Joint Enterprise Not Guilty By Association). This is the first of a series of meetings arranged to coincide with ours. JENGBA has contacted members of INNOCENT and urged them to attend their meetings rather than ours.
We have asked Gloria and Janet to change the date of their meetings so that INNOCENT members can attend meetings of both organisations if they wish, and do not feel forced into choosing one organisation over another. But they have flatly refused to change their meetings to different dates
.
We have been saddened by the discovery that this is a deliberately hostile act. We would like to ignore this childish behaviour and we hope that all INNOCENT members will do so. JENGBA has an excellent record of publicising the terrible and frightening way in which the joint enterprise law is being used to convict innocent people, and we would not wish to prevent members of INNOCENT whose cases involve the use of joint enterprise law from participating in JENGBA's activities. The aims of INNOCENT and the aims of JENGBA are completely compatible.
But although JENGBA offers to help people with their cases, in practice it does not help anyone, and we know of no cases which it has helped to progress in any way. INNOCENT, on the other hand, has a 19 year record of helping with cases, some of which have progressed to successful appeals and the release of innocent prisoners.
Members of INNOCENT know that our meetings are of key importance for our casework. In meetings we exchange information, are brought up to date on cases, clarify the details of what has happened in them, and give support to families. It is essential that members attend meetings if they possibly can. We cannot guarantee to continue supporting cases if the families or supporters concerned stop attending our meetings.
We look forward to seeing you all on 7 March and on subsequent regular meetings of INNOCENT.

Andrew Green
Secretary
INNOCENT  /  <innocent@uk2.net>
challenging miscarriages of justice since 1993

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=8119.0

I forgot to add Trudi Benjamin http://www.unitedagainstinjustice.com

and Michelle Bates https://mobile.twitter.com/uainjustice/status/721660711789834241

to the contributors of United Against Injustice, no doubt carrying on from where people like Billy Middleton and co left off.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2018, 04:07:11 PM by Stephanie »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: What constitutes 'Fresh Evidence' for an appeal?
« Reply #41 on: April 21, 2018, 04:13:21 PM »
Considering that his client wrote to me asking me to visit him and even included in the letter "Say Jeremy told you to go" and the Bar code allows discussion with other parties so long as he "is satisfied that it is in the lay client's best interests"

Nothing wrong what so ever.

You received a letter from JB and posted it up on Blue.  JB asked you to send your so-called forensic evidence breakthrough (feb) to his lawyers. 

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7566.msg397617.html#msg397617

When we met you claimed you dropped your feb off at MT QC's chambers and by chance you met him outside on a cigarette break.  According to you the pair of you struck up a conversation which then extended to exchanging emails until MT QC stopped responding. 

Your claims of a chance meeting with MT QC sound remarkably reminiscent of PH claiming he had a chance meeting with the late Ed Lawson QC.

Work has been carried out, things are moving forward. What do you think all the fundraising was for that started in October of 2016? No point making condemnatory statements claiming those involved are "oblivious" when you are not even acquainted with the most recent developments yourself.

Your uncooperative attitude and scornful grumblings are totally uncalled for. Not long ago the blue forum was taken over by guiltards with just Mike using magic spirit pogs to try and solve the case. Wile you were stuck here buried under Scipio's relentless wrath without much hope in sight.

What do you have to complain about? Nothing!

I don't care how much money has been thrown at it or who's involved I maintain:

- There's nothing remotely forensic about it
- It contains nothing of evidential value
- It wouldn't break through a paper bag

I said as much when we met face to face.  After our meeting you emailed me further info and I can't recall exactly what I said without checking back, which I can't be bothered to do, but I said something to appease you just to keep you quiet. 

You even told me you had tracked down Geoffrey Rivlin at his home address and asked my opinion as to whether you should drop off your feb to him at his home address.  I advised against.  It was at this point I was glad our meeting was at a busy public place. 

So now I'm not just "catty", "nasty" and "horrible" towards MT QC but I also have "an uncooperative attitude" towards you/feb and my "scornful grumblings" are totally uncalled for. 

David in case it has escaped your attention Blue and Red are debating forums.  The fact we both share the same view that JB is innocent is about where the similarities end.  I don't share your views on your feb and most other aspects of the case.  In fact I don't share the views held by many 'supporters' incl posters on Blue, CT, Andrew Hunter, Eric Allison and MT QC.  I don't even share the same views as JB.  No doubt they don't share my views.  Who cares?  The only people capable of changing JB's fate are 3 appeal court judges.  Maybe they will be blown away by your feb so why worry yourself what I think? 

 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Nicholas

Re: What constitutes 'Fresh Evidence' for an appeal?
« Reply #42 on: April 21, 2018, 04:21:59 PM »
You received a letter from JB and posted it up on Blue.  JB asked you to send your so-called forensic evidence breakthrough (feb) to his lawyers. 

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7566.msg397617.html#msg397617

When we met you claimed you dropped your feb off at MT QC's chambers and by chance you met him outside on a cigarette break.  According to you the pair of you struck up a conversation which then extended to exchanging emails until MT QC stopped responding. 

Your claims of a chance meeting with MT QC sound remarkably reminiscent of PH claiming he had a chance meeting with the late Ed Lawson QC.

I don't care how much money has been thrown at it or who's involved I maintain:

- There's nothing remotely forensic about it
- It contains nothing of evidential value
- It wouldn't break through a paper bag

I said as much when we met face to face.  After our meeting you emailed me further info and I can't recall exactly what I said without checking back, which I can't be bothered to do, but I said something to appease you just to keep you quiet. 

You even told me you had tracked down Geoffrey Rivlin at his home address and asked my opinion as to whether you should drop off your feb to him at his home address.  I advised against.  It was at this point I was glad our meeting was at a busy public place. 

So now I'm not just "catty", "nasty" and "horrible" towards MT QC but I also have "an uncooperative attitude" towards you/feb and my "scornful grumblings" are totally uncalled for. 

David in case it has escaped your attention Blue and Red are debating forums.  The fact we both share the same view that JB is innocent is about where the similarities end.  I don't share your views on your feb and most other aspects of the case.  In fact I don't share the views held by many 'supporters' incl posters on Blue, CT, Andrew Hunter, Eric Allison and MT QC.  I don't even share the same views as JB.  No doubt they don't share my views.  Who cares?  The only people capable of changing JB's fate are 3 appeal court judges.  Maybe they will be blown away by your feb so why worry yourself what I think? 

 

Did Jezza tell you that he told David to drop his "feb" off to his lawyers?

And why was David going to drop his "Feb" off to GR QC?

Do you think Andrew Hunter is behind this or Bamber? Or is this all of David's making?

David reminds me of a young Mike Tesco; "handing the sealed envelope over... http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8088.msg457554#msg457554
What a plank!

David really should have listened to his Dad and gone to the papers when he had a chance to make himself some pocket money; as he claimed when he first joined blue.

Apparently he's not happy because this morning someone on blue removed a cartoon he'd done of Essex police.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2018, 04:35:04 PM by Stephanie »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: What constitutes 'Fresh Evidence' for an appeal?
« Reply #43 on: April 21, 2018, 04:37:24 PM »
Did Jezza tell you that he told David to drop his "feb" off to his lawyers?

And why was David going to drop his "Feb" off to GR QC?

Do you think Andrew Hunter is behind this or Bamber? Or is this all of David's making?

David reminds me of a young Mike Tesco; "handing the sealed envelope over... http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8088.msg457554#msg457554

I've never discussed David's so called feb with JB.

The letter David posted on Blue from JB makes clear JB asked David to send his feb to MT QC.  There are no original docs involved so David could just send it via the post or even email it.  No need for a fanfare and grandstanding.  Why even mention it in the first place if you don't want it placed under the microscope?  The whole thing is a nonsense and sideshow.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: What constitutes 'Fresh Evidence' for an appeal?
« Reply #44 on: April 21, 2018, 05:58:45 PM »
Its from a book about the CCRC. I cant give a link nor can I attach a copy as it is too large. It has various authors, but that section I pasted is by "Dr Andrew Green" Who teaches law at the university of Sheffield.

Here is quote taken from an appeal that took place in 2008

"The Court has in the past accepted that section 23 may apply to expert evidence, and we would not wish to circumscribe the operation of a statutory rule enacted to protect defendants against the risk of wrongful conviction.  But it seems unlikely that the section was framed with expert evidence prominently in mind.  The requirement in subsection (2)(a) that the evidence should appear to be capable of belief applies more aptly to factual evidence than to expert opinion, which may or may not be acceptable or persuasive but which is unlikely to be thought to be incapable of belief in any ordinary sense. The giving of a reasonable explanation for failure to adduce the evidence before the jury again applies more aptly to factual evidence of which a party was unaware, or could not adduce, than to expert evidence, since if one expert is unavailable to testify at a trial a party would ordinarily be expect to call another unless circumstances prevented this.  Expert witnesses, although inevitably varying in standing and experience, are interchangeable in a way in which factual witnesses are not.  It would clearly subvert the trial possess if a defendant, convicted at trial, were to be generally free to mount on appeal an expert case which, if sound, could and should have been advanced before the jury. If it is said that the only expert witness in an established field whose opinion supports a certain defence was unavailable to testify at the trial, that may be thought (save in unusual circumstances) to reflect on the acceptability of that opinion."


The power to receive fresh evidence is discretionary, so it depends in part who the judges are and probably what mood they are in that day.

Thanks. 

Personally I think those best placed to determine what constitutes 'fresh evidence' and whether criticism of trial/appeal lawyers could feature are practitioners with decades of experience in the appeal courts. 

Academics are usually big on theory and short on practice. 

The idea the likes of us could do any more than guess is fanciful IMO.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?