Wandering Off Topic

[Lace]

The PJ searches were after many bins had been emptied and taken to landfill.

I have no reason to believe there was any 'systematic' search before that.

And why should Madeleine have been put into a wheelie bin anywhere near Luz?

When did the bin men arrive as there is no mention of it during the search.

[Venturi Swirl]

I have to say I’d be bloody pissed off if I lived in Luz and had my sleep interrupted every night by the dustcarts. How do people put up with it?

[Robittybob1]

I have to say I’d be bloody pissed off if I lived in Luz and had my sleep interrupted every night by the dustcarts. How do people put up with it?

Wouldn't that just be in the commercial district?

[ShiningInLuz]

Why couldn’t Eddie have been brought in earlier?

I am not aware of the date when such a suggestion arose, nor who raised the possibility.

AFAIK, Portugal did not operate cadaver dogs at the time.  If correct, I can see no reason for them to suspect that the UK did.  Can you?

[ShiningInLuz]

A systematic search would have taken the form of emptying them individually,imo.Maybe this is one criticism the PJ failed in ,which could be justified.

There were 4 different designs of bin systems in use in Luz at that time.  These require more than one design of bin lorry to empty them.  However, all automate the process as far as possible,which makes perfect sense.

The operator does not see the detailed contents of the rubbish as it goes in.  To check thoroughly, you would need to get into the back of the lorry and rake around on every bin emptying.

There were over 180 bins in Luz in May 2007.  The search process was carried out on Monday 7th, as I remember.  The total was searched by 2 PJ officers and 3 council bin workers.

I wasn't convinced this was sufficient, so I looked at how rubbish was processed after this.

In one case in Lisbon, an 8 month old baby was detected in this way.  However, Corrie McKeague and Duke Flores both suggest bodies larger than Madeline can escape detection. and end up in landfill.

[ShiningInLuz]

Because the sceptic view is that Gerry disposed of her while carrying her on foot within a very limited time window.

Do you think the PJ took advice from such 'sceptics' in May 2007?

[ShiningInLuz]

I have to say I’d be bloody pissed off if I lived in Luz and had my sleep interrupted every night by the dustcarts. How do people put up with it?

They run nearly every night, but I don't believe every bin gets emptied once per day.  In our last place, the bins were normally emptied during the day, because we got very little traffic, so access was easy.

Plus there seems to be a common sense approach.  Bins that get filled up most often got emptied most frequently.  Ours were emptied less frequently.

[Brietta]

The idea that simply because the McCann's have no previous, this makes them incapable of faking an abduction following the accidental death of their child is well, laughable really.
The Police in 2007 concluded that is what happened, I've seen nothing presented since, despite two current police investigations, that disproves that particular theory, No evidence, nothing, just the words 'Not Suspects' for what they're worth.

You are wrong. 
The Amaral theory prevailed enough to have constituted Kate and Gerry as arguidos.  Rebelo's investigation totally dismissed that by relying on organisation and proper interpretation of the evidence.  All as detailed in the PJ final report.

Snip
The document outlines the different hypothesis explored by detectives and provides details of the extensive forensic research carried out.

But it admits that the McCanns were made arguidos "due to the mere possibility of their involvement" in Madeleine's disappearance and that subsequent forensic tests failed to link them to the death of their daughter.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/2445177/Madeleine-McCann-Kate-and-Gerry-made-arguidos-on-mere-possibility-of-involvement.html

[Brietta]

I am not aware of the date when such a suggestion arose, nor who raised the possibility.

AFAIK, Portugal did not operate cadaver dogs at the time.  If correct, I can see no reason for them to suspect that the UK did.  Can you?

It was raised in the early stages of Madeleine's disappearance when their skills might have been put to beneficial use.

Snip
The question is ... why did they not deploy the dogs in the first place at a time when they might have been of some value to the investigation ... like actually discovering where Madeleine was.

The dogs were on stand by; but had to be stood down; I find the fact far more intriguing that their use was turned down when it might have been of assistance to Madeleine rather than them being used to implicate her parents.

Quote
Police in the Algarve appear no nearer to finding Maddie 20 days after she was snatched from her bed in the family's holiday apartment in Praia da Luz. But the sniffer dogs are still being snubbed.
 
A senior UK police source said: "It is an absolute scandal, time is fast running out for this little girl.
 
"These dogs have immense capability. Their tracking skills are among the finest in the world.
 
"The dogs were put on standby to go to the Algarve within days of Madeleine’s disappearance.
 
"You would expect the Portuguese to make use of the best resources available to them, but they repeatedly ignore the offers of assistance."
 
The dogs include a spaniel whose sense of smell is so keen she can sniff traces of blood on a weapon even after it has been scrubbed clean.
 
But the source warned: "They work most effectively within a 28-day time frame. After that the scent becomes much weaker."
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2890.msg100808#msg100808

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8044.msg397660#msg397660

[ShiningInLuz]

It was raised in the early stages of Madeleine's disappearance when their skills might have been put to beneficial use.

Snip
The question is ... why did they not deploy the dogs in the first place at a time when they might have been of some value to the investigation ... like actually discovering where Madeleine was.

The dogs were on stand by; but had to be stood down; I find the fact far more intriguing that their use was turned down when it might have been of assistance to Madeleine rather than them being used to implicate her parents.

Quote
Police in the Algarve appear no nearer to finding Maddie 20 days after she was snatched from her bed in the family's holiday apartment in Praia da Luz. But the sniffer dogs are still being snubbed.
 
A senior UK police source said: "It is an absolute scandal, time is fast running out for this little girl.
 
"These dogs have immense capability. Their tracking skills are among the finest in the world.
 
"The dogs were put on standby to go to the Algarve within days of Madeleine’s disappearance.
 
"You would expect the Portuguese to make use of the best resources available to them, but they repeatedly ignore the offers of assistance."
 
The dogs include a spaniel whose sense of smell is so keen she can sniff traces of blood on a weapon even after it has been scrubbed clean.
 
But the source warned: "They work most effectively within a 28-day time frame. After that the scent becomes much weaker."
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2890.msg100808#msg100808

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8044.msg397660#msg397660

That appears to be a reference to Keela and sniffer dogs, not Eddie.

I take it as Eddie and Keela both alerted 4 months later, the 28 day time limit applies solely to sniffer dogs.

[Wonderfulspam]

You are wrong. 
The Amaral theory prevailed enough to have constituted Kate and Gerry as arguidos.  Rebelo's investigation totally dismissed that by relying on organisation and proper interpretation of the evidence.  All as detailed in the PJ final report.

Snip
The document outlines the different hypothesis explored by detectives and provides details of the extensive forensic research carried out.

But it admits that the McCanns were made arguidos "due to the mere possibility of their involvement" in Madeleine's disappearance and that subsequent forensic tests failed to link them to the death of their daughter.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/2445177/Madeleine-McCann-Kate-and-Gerry-made-arguidos-on-mere-possibility-of-involvement.html

I said the police concluded in 2007.....the Robelo investigation didn't end until 2008....
As I understand it, the Robelo investigation neither found Maddie nor was able to confirm an abduction had occurred.

[Robittybob1]

That appears to be a reference to Keela and sniffer dogs, not Eddie.

I take it as Eddie and Keela both alerted 4 months later, the 28 day time limit applies solely to sniffer dogs.

IMO refers to both EVRD abd CSI dogs i.e Eddie and Keela.

[Robittybob1]

I said the police concluded in 2007.....the Robelo investigation didn't end until 2008....
As I understand it, the Robelo investigation neither found Maddie nor was able to confirm an abduction had occurred.

What do you mean by "I said the police concluded in 2007"?  Please explain?

[Wonderfulspam]

What do you mean by "I said the police concluded in 2007"?  Please explain?

The interim report signed by Almeida.
I don't need to post it, we all know what it said, those were the conclusions of the investigation at that time.

[ShiningInLuz]

IMO refers to both EVRD abd CSI dogs i.e Eddie and Keela.

You are entitled to your opinion.  I see no reference to Eddie.  He definitely wasn't a she.  He definitely wasn't a sniffer dog.  And he alerted long after 28 days.

I don't know for certain if the blood dog was Keela.  It sounds like her, but I don't know the total number of blood dogs in the UK back then.

Do you?