Wandering Off Topic

[Robittybob1]

The interim report signed by Almeida.
I don't need to post it, we all know what it said, those were the conclusions of the investigation at that time.

An interim report is hardly a conclusion.  IMO it was their "conclusions" at the time based on the misconceptions that the DNA results were a match.

[Brietta]

I said the police concluded in 2007.....the Robelo investigation didn't end until 2008....
As I understand it, the Robelo investigation neither found Maddie nor was able to confirm an abduction had occurred.

You said ... "The Police in 2007 concluded that is what happened, ..." which is entirely wrong.  The police concluded nothing in 2007 except the removal of Amaral from Madeleine's case.

[Robittybob1]

You are entitled to your opinion.  I see no reference to Eddie.  He definitely wasn't a she.  He definitely wasn't a sniffer dog.  And he alerted long after 28 days.

I don't know for certain if the blood dog was Keela.  It sounds like her, but I don't know the total number of blood dogs in the UK back then.

Do you?

This is how I see it: Keela has to be within inches of the "blood" before she is effective.  They needed to run a cadaver dog over an area first to get sites where there was an alert, and then bring in Keela to look for sites that could be analysed.
Without a doubt Eddie is a sniffer dog, he smells cadaver odour.

[Brietta]

IMO refers to both EVRD abd CSI dogs i.e Eddie and Keela.

I think that is a logical supposition.
The team consisted of Martin Grime ~ Eddie ~ and Keela. 

[G-Unit]

It was raised in the early stages of Madeleine's disappearance when their skills might have been put to beneficial use.

Snip
The question is ... why did they not deploy the dogs in the first place at a time when they might have been of some value to the investigation ... like actually discovering where Madeleine was.

The dogs were on stand by; but had to be stood down; I find the fact far more intriguing that their use was turned down when it might have been of assistance to Madeleine rather than them being used to implicate her parents.

Quote
Police in the Algarve appear no nearer to finding Maddie 20 days after she was snatched from her bed in the family's holiday apartment in Praia da Luz. But the sniffer dogs are still being snubbed.
 
A senior UK police source said: "It is an absolute scandal, time is fast running out for this little girl.
 
"These dogs have immense capability. Their tracking skills are among the finest in the world.
 
"The dogs were put on standby to go to the Algarve within days of Madeleine’s disappearance.
 
"You would expect the Portuguese to make use of the best resources available to them, but they repeatedly ignore the offers of assistance."
 
The dogs include a spaniel whose sense of smell is so keen she can sniff traces of blood on a weapon even after it has been scrubbed clean.
 
But the source warned: "They work most effectively within a 28-day time frame. After that the scent becomes much weaker."
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2890.msg100808#msg100808

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8044.msg397660#msg397660

That Sun article, which appeared on 23rd May 2007 seems to have confused sniifer dogs and CSI dogs.

"Two dogs attached to Britain's National Policing Improvement Agency have developed such powerful tracking skills they can follow a scent for miles, even one up to 28 days old.
 
By sniffing an item of Maddie's clothing, they could trace a trail that might finally unlock the mystery of the four-year-old's disappearance."
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2890.msg100808#msg100808

[Robittybob1]

That Sun article, which appeared on 23rd May 2007 seems to have confused sniifer dogs and CSI dogs.

"Two dogs attached to Britain's National Policing Improvement Agency have developed such powerful tracking skills they can follow a scent for miles, even one up to 28 days old.
 
By sniffing an item of Maddie's clothing, they could trace a trail that might finally unlock the mystery of the four-year-old's disappearance."
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2890.msg100808#msg100808

There are those types of sniffer dogs too.

[Brietta]

That Sun article, which appeared on 23rd May 2007 seems to have confused sniifer dogs and CSI dogs.

"Two dogs attached to Britain's National Policing Improvement Agency have developed such powerful tracking skills they can follow a scent for miles, even one up to 28 days old.
 
By sniffing an item of Maddie's clothing, they could trace a trail that might finally unlock the mystery of the four-year-old's disappearance."
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2890.msg100808#msg100808

Goodness gracious me ... we are talking Red Top 07 here  🙄  ... and way before any of us were aware that not only in the repertoire did we have victim recovery dogs they could even be enhanced too.

[ShiningInLuz]

This is how I see it: Keela has to be within inches of the "blood" before she is effective.  They needed to run a cadaver dog over an area first to get sites where there was an alert, and then bring in Keela to look for sites that could be analysed.
Without a doubt Eddie is a sniffer dog, he smells cadaver odour.

Without a doubt Eddie was not a sniffer dog.  Those are dogs that are given something from the individual to smell, then try to follow the scent trail.  Eddie did not have that capability.

The videos show that Eddie had to be deployed in a highly structured manner before he might give an alert.

Keela was the same.  She had no ability to track a person via scent.  She had to be deployed in a structured  search before she could smell blood.

The GNR deployed at least 4 tracker dogs, and the relevant statements make it clear those would be no good as a cadaver dog or a blood dog.  It's also clear they were deployed early, much sooner than the alleged 28 day limit.  And the handlers' statements make it clear the obstacles they faced.

[Brietta]

There are those types of sniffer dogs too.

I think whatever their respective training all dogs use their noses and can therefore be described as sniffer dogs.
I'm sure that would be an OK description back in 2007.
We are far more sophisticated now.

[Brietta]

Without a doubt Eddie was not a sniffer dog.  Those are dogs that are given something from the individual to smell, then try to follow the scent trail.  Eddie did not have that capability.

The videos show that Eddie had to be deployed in a highly structured manner before he might give an alert.

Keela was the same.  She had no ability to track a person via scent.  She had to be deployed in a structured  search before she could smell blood.

The GNR deployed at least 4 tracker dogs, and the relevant statements make it clear those would be no good as a cadaver dog or a blood dog.  It's also clear they were deployed early, much sooner than the alleged 28 day limit.  And the handlers' statements make it clear the obstacles they faced.

I believe Eddie started off as a Victim Recovery Dog ... which by nature of the task they are trained for ... are wide ranging.

[pathfinder73]

Tell me the difference between a Victim Recovery dog and a cadaver dog?

[pathfinder73]

Without a doubt Eddie was not a sniffer dog.  Those are dogs that are given something from the individual to smell, then try to follow the scent trail.  Eddie did not have that capability.

The videos show that Eddie had to be deployed in a highly structured manner before he might give an alert.

Keela was the same.  She had no ability to track a person via scent.  She had to be deployed in a structured  search before she could smell blood.

The GNR deployed at least 4 tracker dogs, and the relevant statements make it clear those would be no good as a cadaver dog or a blood dog.  It's also clear they were deployed early, much sooner than the alleged 28 day limit.  And the handlers' statements make it clear the obstacles they faced.

They can track the scent they are trained to find i.e. cadaver or blood.

In order to confirm that the dog had effectively 'marked' the car key, that was found in the
map/glove pocket on the side of the driver's door, at 04h13, that key was retrieved from the car
and concealed in a place far distant from the vehicle on parking level -3 of the underground car
park.
At 04h14, it was verified that the dog 'marked' the area of a sandbox [bucket of sand] of the Fire
System where the car key had been concealed beneath the sand.
At 04h50, a new inspection was performed by Eddy on the parking level -4 where the above car
key was concealed in an area far distant from the vehicle.
At 04h51, it was verified that the dog 'marked' the area of a sandbox [bucket of sand] of the Fire
System where the car key had been concealed beneath the sand.

[Robittybob1]

Without a doubt Eddie was not a sniffer dog.  Those are dogs that are given something from the individual to smell, then try to follow the scent trail.  Eddie did not have that capability.

The videos show that Eddie had to be deployed in a highly structured manner before he might give an alert.

Keela was the same.  She had no ability to track a person via scent.  She had to be deployed in a structured  search before she could smell blood.

The GNR deployed at least 4 tracker dogs, and the relevant statements make it clear those would be no good as a cadaver dog or a blood dog.  It's also clear they were deployed early, much sooner than the alleged 28 day limit.  And the handlers' statements make it clear the obstacles they faced.

As you did also, I tend to call them "tracker dogs"    Who defines a "sniffer dog"?  Isn't that just a dog that uses its nose?

Of course they can track the scent they are trained to find i.e. cadaver or blood.

In order to confirm that the dog had effectively 'marked' the car key, that was found in the
map/glove pocket on the side of the driver's door, at 04h13, that key was retrieved from the car
and concealed in a place far distant from the vehicle on parking level -3 of the underground car
park.
At 04h14, it was verified that the dog 'marked' the area of a sandbox [bucket of sand] of the Fire
System where the car key had been concealed beneath the sand.
At 04h50, a new inspection was performed by Eddy on the parking level -4 where the above car
key was concealed in an area far distant from the vehicle.
At 04h51, it was verified that the dog 'marked' the area of a sandbox [bucket of sand] of the Fire
System where the car key had been concealed beneath the sand.

Not in the usual way of tracking scent .  A cadaver isn't moving from place to place leaving a continuous trail to track.

[Brietta]

Tell me the difference between a Victim Recovery dog and a cadaver dog?

Why don't you look it up ?

[ShiningInLuz]

I think whatever their respective training all dogs use their noses and can therefore be described as sniffer dogs.
I'm sure that would be an OK description back in 2007.
We are far more sophisticated now.

Of course they use their noses

A dog or dogs used by an American international airport screen inbound passengers for carrying larger amounts of cash than they have declared.  There was a particularly amusing incident when one Asian couple brought in a suitcase and box after box of 100US$ notes.  There was so much, customs officers did not have the time to count the notes, so they weighed it.  From that, the estimated value was 2.2 million.

Upon closer examination, Customs decided the notes were forgeries.

They asked the couple why they were carrying vast numbers of forged banknotes.  The Asian couple explained they were going a family ceremony in the US, and in Asian culture you burn cash as an 'offering'.  Their story checked out so they were permitted to leave.

Without the forged notes, which customs confiscated and incinerated.

It's clear that doggies do all sorts of fascinating things, many but not all using their nose.  To classify all as sniffer dogs is overly simplistic.  The 28 day period mentioned earlier might well be true for tracker dogs, I'm no expert.

But it did not apply to Eddie and Keela, because they were not tracker dogs,