Author Topic: Portuguese judicial secrecy law and its impact on the Madeleine case.  (Read 51689 times)

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Offline Brietta

Re: Portuguese judicial secrecy law and its impact on the Madeleine case.
« Reply #45 on: August 03, 2017, 02:27:59 PM »
Leaks occurred from both sides Brietta.

As to blackening opinion , the Mccanns in my view and others did that all by their actions.

This thread exists precisely because Madeleine's parents and their friends observed the secrecy laws so stringently that it was thought they had something to hide.

In the interim the Portuguese press was full of lies and innuendo concerning them.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Portuguese judicial secrecy law and its impact on the Madeleine case.
« Reply #46 on: August 03, 2017, 02:31:40 PM »
This thread exists precisely because Madeleine's parents and their friends observed the secrecy laws so stringently that it was thought they had something to hide.

In the interim the Portuguese press was full of lies and innuendo concerning them.

Yet there were statements coming from 'sources close to the Mccanns' all the way through these 10 years.

It was never a one sided issue Brietta.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2017, 02:44:55 PM by stephen25000 »

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Portuguese judicial secrecy law and its impact on the Madeleine case.
« Reply #47 on: August 03, 2017, 02:53:13 PM »
Page 338 in the hardback copy.
IMO British Consul Bill Henderson would have known about Amaral as the murder case of Michael Ahern was ongoing in the Algarve in the weeks prior to Madeleine's disappearance. Henderson was providing consular assistance for a UK citizen David Figueira - a case which involved a body in a freezer, a ballistics expert who couldn't determine if a gun had been fired & an autopsy at odds with the prosecutions version of events (yes, really).
Thank you.

p338 of 'madeleine'.
"Later the same month {May 2009}, Amaral was given an eighteen-month suspended prison sentence in connection with a case in which three of his officers were accused of torture. The mother and uncle of another missing child - eight-year old Joana Cipriano, who had disappeared in 2004 from a village from Praia da Luz - had been imprisoned for her murder, although no body has ever been found.  They claimed they had been tortured into confessing (the police maintained that Sra Cipriano had fallen down the stairs).  The officers concerned were cleared but the jury found that Amaral had falsified statements relating to the torture case.  His conviction was upheld in the Supreme Court in March 2011.  Joanna's mother is still in jail."

I am not going to get into a debate about the Joana Cipriano case, since there is a perfectly good sub-forum dedicated to that.

"It was a very close run thing for the McCanns who were no doubt aware of the Cipriano case." was Brietta's assertion.

Thus far, I have seen nothing that evidences this.  They might or might not have been aware of it.  Bill Henderson might or might not have informed them of it.  They might or might not have heard of the Cipriano case from relatives/supporters in the UK.

I am not familiar the contents of Gerry's blog.  Is there a reference to Joana Cipriano in that?

 
What's up, old man?

Offline misty

Re: Portuguese judicial secrecy law and its impact on the Madeleine case.
« Reply #48 on: August 03, 2017, 03:08:47 PM »
Thank you.

p338 of 'madeleine'.
"Later the same month {May 2009}, Amaral was given an eighteen-month suspended prison sentence in connection with a case in which three of his officers were accused of torture. The mother and uncle of another missing child - eight-year old Joana Cipriano, who had disappeared in 2004 from a village from Praia da Luz - had been imprisoned for her murder, although no body has ever been found.  They claimed they had been tortured into confessing (the police maintained that Sra Cipriano had fallen down the stairs).  The officers concerned were cleared but the jury found that Amaral had falsified statements relating to the torture case.  His conviction was upheld in the Supreme Court in March 2011.  Joanna's mother is still in jail."

I am not going to get into a debate about the Joana Cipriano case, since there is a perfectly good sub-forum dedicated to that.

"It was a very close run thing for the McCanns who were no doubt aware of the Cipriano case." was Brietta's assertion.

Thus far, I have seen nothing that evidences this.  They might or might not have been aware of it.  Bill Henderson might or might not have informed them of it.  They might or might not have heard of the Cipriano case from relatives/supporters in the UK.

I am not familiar the contents of Gerry's blog.  Is there a reference to Joana Cipriano in that?

It was Bill Henderson who told the McCanns shortly after Madeleine's disappearance about the spate of crimes against British children in the Algarve. Do you really think he was ignorant of the Cipriano case & the local PJ's role in that, along with the Intermezzo case which was also a very high profile case at the time & involved Amaral & Almeida?

Offline Brietta

Re: Portuguese judicial secrecy law and its impact on the Madeleine case.
« Reply #49 on: August 03, 2017, 03:15:37 PM »
Thank you.

p338 of 'madeleine'.
"Later the same month {May 2009}, Amaral was given an eighteen-month suspended prison sentence in connection with a case in which three of his officers were accused of torture. The mother and uncle of another missing child - eight-year old Joana Cipriano, who had disappeared in 2004 from a village from Praia da Luz - had been imprisoned for her murder, although no body has ever been found.  They claimed they had been tortured into confessing (the police maintained that Sra Cipriano had fallen down the stairs).  The officers concerned were cleared but the jury found that Amaral had falsified statements relating to the torture case.  His conviction was upheld in the Supreme Court in March 2011.  Joanna's mother is still in jail."

I am not going to get into a debate about the Joana Cipriano case, since there is a perfectly good sub-forum dedicated to that.

"It was a very close run thing for the McCanns who were no doubt aware of the Cipriano case." was Brietta's assertion.

Thus far, I have seen nothing that evidences this.  They might or might not have been aware of it.  Bill Henderson might or might not have informed them of it.  They might or might not have heard of the Cipriano case from relatives/supporters in the UK.

I am not familiar the contents of Gerry's blog.  Is there a reference to Joana Cipriano in that?

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8392.msg418607#msg418607 where it says ...

Police officer made arguido in the process of assaults against Leonor Cipriano Expresso

An official of the PJ of Portimao is the seventh police officer to be implicated in the process of alleged assaults on the mother of Joana.
18:00 Friday, May 4, 2007
Gonçalo Amaral, coordinator of the Judicial Police of Portimão, was accused in the case investigating the alleged assaults on Leonor Cipriano, which occurred in October 2004. The woman complained of being beaten, kicked and with a cardboard tube During informal interrogations? Which would have taken place without the presence of the defense lawyer and without the knowledge of the public prosecutor investigating the disappearance of the eight-year-old daughter of Leonor.
Gonçalo Amaral was at that time coordinator of the PJ of Faro
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id176.htm
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline John

Re: Portuguese judicial secrecy law and its impact on the Madeleine case.
« Reply #50 on: August 03, 2017, 03:29:35 PM »
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8392.msg418607#msg418607 where it says ...

Police officer made arguido in the process of assaults against Leonor Cipriano Expresso

An official of the PJ of Portimao is the seventh police officer to be implicated in the process of alleged assaults on the mother of Joana.
18:00 Friday, May 4, 2007
Gonçalo Amaral, coordinator of the Judicial Police of Portimão, was accused in the case investigating the alleged assaults on Leonor Cipriano, which occurred in October 2004. The woman complained of being beaten, kicked and with a cardboard tube During informal interrogations? Which would have taken place without the presence of the defense lawyer and without the knowledge of the public prosecutor investigating the disappearance of the eight-year-old daughter of Leonor.
Gonçalo Amaral was at that time coordinator of the PJ of Faro
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id176.htm

Its quite a coincidence that Gonçalo Amaral was made an arguido in the Cipriano case the very day he was assigned the position of coordinator in the McCann case.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2017, 04:16:21 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline sadie

Re: Portuguese judicial secrecy law and its impact on the Madeleine case.
« Reply #51 on: August 03, 2017, 04:56:38 PM »
The McCanns were made arguidos before this date.

I am still awaiting a cite that supports Brietta's assertion.  I am not the origin of this assertion - Brietta is.  Forum protocol is a cite.

By the way, I have lived here for 5 years, and to find Figueira I would have to use Google.  Just like I did when I heard about Portelas.
The article in the SUN was dated the 8th Sept and the Mccanns were made arguidos on the 7th Sept.

Are you saying that the SUN managed to find Leandro, interview him, and then write the piece and publish in less thann 12 hours?

I think The Mccanns knew about what had happened to Leonor in advance of being made arquidos.



SIL, why are you lowering yourself to the cheap tactics of insinuating (for any reader who didn't have the means to check) that probably The Mccanns didn't know about what happened in the Cipriano case?    You must surely have checked the dates and realised the timings ruled in the fact that The Mccanns would know.

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Portuguese judicial secrecy law and its impact on the Madeleine case.
« Reply #52 on: August 03, 2017, 04:59:46 PM »
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8392.msg418607#msg418607 where it says ...

Police officer made arguido in the process of assaults against Leonor Cipriano Expresso

An official of the PJ of Portimao is the seventh police officer to be implicated in the process of alleged assaults on the mother of Joana.
18:00 Friday, May 4, 2007
Gonçalo Amaral, coordinator of the Judicial Police of Portimão, was accused in the case investigating the alleged assaults on Leonor Cipriano, which occurred in October 2004. The woman complained of being beaten, kicked and with a cardboard tube During informal interrogations? Which would have taken place without the presence of the defense lawyer and without the knowledge of the public prosecutor investigating the disappearance of the eight-year-old daughter of Leonor.
Gonçalo Amaral was at that time coordinator of the PJ of Faro
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id176.htm
Why do you keep referring me to large slabs of material that appear, to me, to prove nothing relevant?

If you have evidence that the McCanns knew about the Cipriano case, then cite it.

The date when Amaral was made an arguido has no relevance to the issue of whether the McCanns did or did not know about Joana's case.

I take it that since thus far you have not provided a cite for your assertion, you cannot.  Until you do, it is an IYO.
What's up, old man?

Offline slartibartfast

Re: Portuguese judicial secrecy law and its impact on the Madeleine case.
« Reply #53 on: August 03, 2017, 05:05:30 PM »
It was Bill Henderson who told the McCanns shortly after Madeleine's disappearance about the spate of crimes against British children in the Algarve. Do you really think he was ignorant of the Cipriano case & the local PJ's role in that, along with the Intermezzo case which was also a very high profile case at the time & involved Amaral & Almeida?

Please provide a cite.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.


Offline misty

Re: Portuguese judicial secrecy law and its impact on the Madeleine case.
« Reply #55 on: August 03, 2017, 05:19:10 PM »
Why do you keep referring me to large slabs of material that appear, to me, to prove nothing relevant?

If you have evidence that the McCanns knew about the Cipriano case, then cite it.

The date when Amaral was made an arguido has no relevance to the issue of whether the McCanns did or did not know about Joana's case.

I take it that since thus far you have not provided a cite for your assertion, you cannot.  Until you do, it is an IYO.

Encarnacao, who was Amaral's superior in the Madeleine case, also oversaw the Joana case. He worked closely with UK police officers from the get-go. Do you think he would have withheld details of another unsolved case from a few years before?

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Portuguese judicial secrecy law and its impact on the Madeleine case.
« Reply #56 on: August 03, 2017, 05:24:55 PM »
It was Bill Henderson who told the McCanns shortly after Madeleine's disappearance about the spate of crimes against British children in the Algarve. Do you really think he was ignorant of the Cipriano case & the local PJ's role in that, along with the Intermezzo case which was also a very high profile case at the time & involved Amaral & Almeida?
I have very little information on the content of discussions between Henderson and the McCanns, despite his name getting several mentions in 'madeleine'.

The key references appear to be p89-90 and 323.  323 implies Kate has access to parts of the PJ Files that were ordered to not be released.  Hmm.

There is no reference to Henderson discussing Amaral or Cipriano.

Perhaps Henderson gave her a heads-up on Amaral, and she is merely being diplomatic.  But the truth is, I cannot see anything consistent with that.  Kate portrays the McCanns (largely) as co-operating with the PJ until Kate was made an arguida, not as some cloak-and-dagger conflict with 'the alleged evildoer Amaral'.
What's up, old man?

Offline jassi

I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Brietta

Re: Portuguese judicial secrecy law and its impact on the Madeleine case.
« Reply #58 on: August 03, 2017, 05:31:42 PM »
Why do you keep referring me to large slabs of material that appear, to me, to prove nothing relevant?

If you have evidence that the McCanns knew about the Cipriano case, then cite it.

The date when Amaral was made an arguido has no relevance to the issue of whether the McCanns did or did not know about Joana's case.

I take it that since thus far you have not provided a cite for your assertion, you cannot.  Until you do, it is an IYO.

Actually ... it was in response to your request regarding Gerry McCann's blog and whether or not Joana Cipriano is mentioned there.

Please refrain from demanding cites if none given by me appear destined ever to meet with your approval.  Thank you.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Brietta

Re: Portuguese judicial secrecy law and its impact on the Madeleine case.
« Reply #59 on: August 03, 2017, 05:39:01 PM »

Date for that article is 2011

He must have had a time machine then ... the article states ...

He told the McCanns shortly after the abduction that there had been "several cases of men getting into bed with children". When police made public their files on the case in the summer of 2008, Mrs McCann discovered five cases of British children being sexually abused in their beds while on holiday and while their parents slept in another room.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....