UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.

[stephen25000]

I don't agree that many of the arguments put forward in support of #brexit are defunct, it is very much early days. 

Sturgeon is an upstart, an opportunist who does not speak for the majority of people in Scotland. The fact is that the SNP represent around a million voters out of an electorate of over four million, not exactly an overwhelming mandate to ever consider independence, but then she knows that.  Sturgeon might be ambitious but she iisnt stupid, she knows that like Salmond, a failed Indy vote would mean the end of her career as Scots leader.

What about Johnson ?

An upstart and opportunist.

He used the referendum in an attempt to gain power, and if you think otherwise, you are mistaken.


Under 25% of the electorate voted for the Conservative government ?

[John]

Of course some think that because the Germans want to sell BMWs and Bosch whitegoods here and the French want to sell champagne here that gives us a lot of clout.
 

It does put us in a great negotiating position.  The Germans in particular will be crapping themselves in case their car industry is damaged.  However, Britain's imminent exit is by no means the end of it, there are rumblings from other countries who now wish a referendum vote.  Marine Le Pen will not stop until President Hollande agrees to a referendum in France and hevknoiws what the outcome will be thus why he is refusing one.  Democracy at its best under the EU.

https://www.rt.com/news/348422-hollande-rejects-frexit-referendum/

[stephen25000]

It does put us in a great negotiating position.  The Germans in particular will be crapping themselves in case their car industry is damaged.  However, Britain's imminent exit is by no means the end of it, there are rumblings from other countries who now wish a referendum vote.

Great negotiating position. 

Don't think so.

[Angelo222]

It does put us in a great negotiating position.  The Germans in particular will be crapping themselves in case their car industry is damaged.  However, Britain's imminent exit is by no means the end of it, there are rumblings from other countries who now wish a referendum vote.  Marine Le Pen will not stop until President Hollande agrees to a referendum in France and hevknoiws what the outcome will be thus why he is refusing one.  Democracy at its best under the EU.

https://www.rt.com/news/348422-hollande-rejects-frexit-referendum/

The EU sells much more to us than we do to them so it is in their interest and the interest of their manufacturing industry to maintain the status quo.

[Alfie]

The EU sells much more to us than we do to them so it is in their interest and the interest of their manufacturing industry to maintain the status quo.

This is becoming such a cliché.  Isn't it possible that preventing the EU's total collapse might just take precedence over continued trade on favourable terms with the UK?

[G-Unit]

OK, have it your way.  There is no correlation whatsoever between class, age, education and wealth and how people voted on Friday.  Happy now?  That said, do you agree that a significant percentage of those who voted "leave" will be from the less well-off sector of society?  If so, can we get back to the original question I asked which you have twice avoided answering:

yes, and what are you going to tell those who voted for Brexit that the prices of food, clothes and electricals are going to become even less affordable than before, as you have suggested they would and should?!

There is a correlation, but a correlation is not the same as a cause. For all we know there's a correlation between baldness and voting leave. Does that mean people voted to leave because they were bald? That's the absurdity of correlations, they don't fulfill the requirements of cause and effect. You could just as easily say being inclined to vote 'leave' 'causes' that type of person to prefer not to enter higher education.

Almost the whole of the regions in England a Wales voted 'leave'. I have no idea which people actually voted which way within those regions. It would be easy to hang around outside a polling station and ask people. Whether they would a] tell you or b] tell the truth I couldn't say.

I would guess that those who live alongside poorer immigrants are likely to be lower class. elderly and/or poor themselves. Their experiences of immigration would differ from the higher and more affluent classes and may well have affected the way they voted.

I don't remember saying prices should or would rise? I remember saying UK manufacturers could make high quality made in Britain goods as an alternative to trying to compete with cheap goods from low wage economies.

[Alfie]

I don't agree that many of the arguments put forward in support of #brexit are defunct, it is very much early days. 

Sturgeon is an upstart, an opportunist who does not speak for the majority of people in Scotland. The fact is that the SNP represent around a million voters out of an electorate of over four million, not exactly an overwhelming mandate to even consider independence, but then she knows that.  Sturgeon might be ambitious but she isn't stupid, she knows that like Salmond, a failed indy vote would mean the end of her career as Scots leader.

anecdotally I know a number of Scottish people who did not vote for Scottish independence at the last referendum who are now keen to vote yes at the next one.

[John]

The EU sells much more to us than we do to them so it is in their interest and the interest of their manufacturing industry to maintain the status quo.

The majority of the UK’s motor vehicle imports are from the EU, consistently accounting for over 85% of total motor vehicle imports each year since 1998. Imports from the EU have grown from £14.3 billion to £31.3 billion between 1998 and 2014, whereas imports from non-EU countries have grown from £2.2 billion to £4.0 billion over the same period.

In 1998, a broadly similar composition to imports existed for UK exports; exports of motors vehicles to the EU accounted for three quarters of total motor vehicle exports. This has changed noticeably, with exports to non-EU countries growing at a faster rate than exports to EU countries. Consequently, the share of total motor vehicle manufacturing exports to the EU has fallen to 40%. Exports to non-EU countries have grown from £2.9 billion to £17.9 billion from 1998 to 2014, whereas exports to EU countries have grown from £8.0 billion to £11.9 billion over the same period. The strong demand for exported UK cars is widely reported by car manufacturing trade body the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT).

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20160105160709/http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/abs/annual-business-survey/car-production/sty-car.html

[Angelo222]

anecdotally I know a number of Scottish people who did not vote for Scottish independence at the last referendum who are now keen to vote yes at the next one.

and?

[John]

anecdotally I know a number of Scottish people who did not vote for Scottish independence at the last referendum who are now keen to vote yes at the next one.

Voting for indy and bankruptcy is akin to turkeys voting for Christmas.  Most Scots aren't that stupid.

[Alfie]

There is a correlation, but a correlation is not the same as a cause. For all we know there's a correlation between baldness and voting leave. Does that mean people voted to leave because they were bald? That's the absurdity of correlations, they don't fulfill the requirements of cause and effect. You could just as easily say being inclined to vote 'leave' 'causes' that type of person to prefer not to enter higher education.

Almost the whole of the regions in England a Wales voted 'leave'. I have no idea which people actually voted which way within those regions. It would be easy to hang around outside a polling station and ask people. Whether they would a] tell you or b] tell the truth I couldn't say.

I would guess that those who live alongside poorer immigrants are likely to be lower class. elderly and/or poor themselves. Their experiences of immigration would differ from the higher and more affluent classes and may well have affected the way they voted.

I don't remember saying prices should or would rise? I remember saying UK manufacturers could make high quality made in Britain goods as an alternative to trying to compete with cheap goods from low wage economies.

And do you think UK manufacturers can produce high quality goods at the same price as cheap goods from low wage economies?

[Alfie]

Voting for indy and bankruptcy is akin to turkeys voting for Christmas.  Most Scots aren't that stupid.

I didn't think more people would vote for financial chaos and instability for years either, but then what do I know!

[stephen25000]

Here's Boris on his mission to Mars.

[Wonderfulspam]

Jeremy Corbyn supporters to march on parliament to demand that Labour leader keeps job.



Thousands of people are to descend on parliament to demand Jeremy Corbyn keeps his job.

Amid mass resignations in the shadow cabinet, supporters of the Labour leader are being urged to march on Parliament Square to demand that Corbyn stays as Labour leader.

The event was posted onto Facebook by the Momentum campaign group, in the wake of the resignation of a large number of Corbyn’s shadow cabinet. In the hours after the event, thousands of people have said that they will be at the event, which begins at 6pm.


Shadow chancellor John McDonnell and Diane Abbott – both high-profile supporters of Corbyn’s leadership – are to speak at the event. Other high-profile Corbyn allies such as journalist Paul Mason and trade unionists will also speak at the event.

It is being supported by a hashtag campaign that urges people to tweet with #KeepCorbyn.

Those behind the event have said that it is a reaction to what they see as a right-wing takeover of the Labour party, against the wishes of its membership.

“The future is uncertain,” reads a message on the event’s page. “We face a Tory Brexit, Cameron has resigned and we are likely to have a general election in the coming months with the potential of Britain lurching yet further to the right.


“A small number of Labour MPs are using this as an opportunity to oust Jeremy, disrespect the Labour membership who elected him and disregard our movement for a new kind of politics.

“We cannot let this undemocratic behaviour succeed.”

The Facebook page is busy with messages of support for the protest, from people urging others to attend.

“Let's be clear this is not a small number of MPs this is the full scale right wing revolt,” writes one user. “The PLP is again treating Labour membership with complete contempt.”

But others have written on its wall to support those MPs who have been sacked or have resigned in protest at Mr Corbyn’s leadership. “No point in leading a government for the people if your peers do not support you,” writes one user.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/jeremy-corbyn-brexit-labour-leader-shadow-cabinet-latest-news-eu-referendum-a7105666.html

[John]

I didn't think more people would vote for financial chaos and instability for years either, but then what do I know!

Blame u-turn Cameron.  He changed the game after the result was known and now hasn't the bottle to see it through.