Author Topic: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.  (Read 125634 times)

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stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
« Reply #780 on: June 28, 2016, 01:56:41 PM »
Stephen supports everything EU but hasn't been able to explain why.

Stephen and others have explained, but some are too blind to see, metaphorically or otherwise.

Likewise, I won't be swayed by redundant cliches.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2016, 02:03:07 PM by stephen25000 »

Offline G-Unit

Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
« Reply #781 on: June 28, 2016, 02:19:29 PM »
What immigration really means to Britain


A picture of an NHS surgical team who come from around the European Union has been shared thousands of times online.

The photo, titled "We are Europe!", shows three scrub nurses from Spain, an Irish radiographer, a German consultant anaesthetist, a Greek urology specialist registrar and a British Pakistani consultant urologist.

Junaid Masood, who posted the picture while working at Homerton University Hospital in east London, said immigration is "the backbone" of the NHS.

The locum consultant urologist wrote: "Today we have been hard at work improving people's lives! This is what our friends from Europe do for the NHS."
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/what-immigration-really-means-to-britain-a7106166.html

Nice picture, but a bit simplistic to say that this is 'What immigration really means to Britain' surely?

Not all immigrants fill worthwhile jobs. Not all immigrants have jobs. Some are in our prisons. Immigrants, like everyone else, come in all shapes, sizes and types.

In respect of the NHS several questions arise;
 
Why are we short of doctors and nurses?

Answer; because the UK has been cutting training places so our own people can't get into the jobs; The Royal College of Nursing said;

there are 54,000 homegrown applicants a year seeking training places. However, in 2010-2011 there were only 20,092 nurse training commissions in the UK. In each of the next four years under the coalition there were fewer places, a reduction of 8,000 British nurses coming into the system.

Andy Burnham, the shadow health secretary, said: “Because there are not enough nurses coming out of training, hospitals are having to tour Europe looking for recruits.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/apr/04/nhs-recruits-one-in-four-nurses-from-abroad

I think the same is true for doctors. Instead of investing in training we are just recruiting overseas.

Guardian investigation finds that aggressive recruitment sees doctors from at least 27 countries hired in 32 of the 160 hospital trusts in England......Dr David Rosser, medical director of University hospitals Birmingham, one of England’s biggest trusts, said: “The NHS doesn’t have the number of doctors it needs. The shortage is real. We aren’t training enough doctors in this country, and so we are dependent on foreign-trained doctors. Doctors in more and more branches of medicine report shortages, especially in specialities such as A&E, where it’s tough work.”
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/jan/28/-sp-nhs-hires-3000-foreign-doctors-staff-shortage

So needing immigrants to work in the NHS is due to lack of investment in training our own doctors and nurses. Are these doctors as well trained as our home trained ones? Possibly not;
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/10772690/The-NHS-must-raise-the-bar-for-foreign-doctors.html

A pretty picture, as I said, but the underlying reasons for our international NHS staff should also be communicated and considered. Haven't we had enough propoganda?


Read and abide by the forum rules.
Result = happy posting.
Ignore and break the rules
Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
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Offline Myster

Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
« Reply #782 on: June 28, 2016, 02:24:19 PM »
 

So why aren'the you referring in your comments to burglars from the UK  ?

It's obvious, stephen, that criminals from any part of the European mainland are an additional burden this country doesn't need and is better off without.

Have to go now, need to get some work done.
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Angelo222

Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
« Reply #783 on: June 28, 2016, 02:35:02 PM »
Stephen and others have explained, but some are too blind to see, metaphorically or otherwise.

Likewise, I won't be swayed by redundant cliches.

I haven't seen any points from you in favour of remaining within the EU.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline rotti

Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
« Reply #784 on: June 28, 2016, 02:43:34 PM »
I haven't seen any points from you in favour of remaining within the EU.
yes i agree 8((()*/

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
« Reply #785 on: June 28, 2016, 03:22:08 PM »
Nice picture, but a bit simplistic to say that this is 'What immigration really means to Britain' surely?

Not all immigrants fill worthwhile jobs. Not all immigrants have jobs. Some are in our prisons. Immigrants, like everyone else, come in all shapes, sizes and types.

In respect of the NHS several questions arise;
 
Why are we short of doctors and nurses?

Answer; because the UK has been cutting training places so our own people can't get into the jobs; The Royal College of Nursing said;

there are 54,000 homegrown applicants a year seeking training places. However, in 2010-2011 there were only 20,092 nurse training commissions in the UK. In each of the next four years under the coalition there were fewer places, a reduction of 8,000 British nurses coming into the system.

Andy Burnham, the shadow health secretary, said: “Because there are not enough nurses coming out of training, hospitals are having to tour Europe looking for recruits.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/apr/04/nhs-recruits-one-in-four-nurses-from-abroad

I think the same is true for doctors. Instead of investing in training we are just recruiting overseas.

Guardian investigation finds that aggressive recruitment sees doctors from at least 27 countries hired in 32 of the 160 hospital trusts in England......Dr David Rosser, medical director of University hospitals Birmingham, one of England’s biggest trusts, said: “The NHS doesn’t have the number of doctors it needs. The shortage is real. We aren’t training enough doctors in this country, and so we are dependent on foreign-trained doctors. Doctors in more and more branches of medicine report shortages, especially in specialities such as A&E, where it’s tough work.”
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/jan/28/-sp-nhs-hires-3000-foreign-doctors-staff-shortage

So needing immigrants to work in the NHS is due to lack of investment in training our own doctors and nurses. Are these doctors as well trained as our home trained ones? Possibly not;
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/10772690/The-NHS-must-raise-the-bar-for-foreign-doctors.html

A pretty picture, as I said, but the underlying reasons for our international NHS staff should also be communicated and considered. Haven't we had enough propoganda?

Or consider the basic problem, "sides" excluded the problem is:
A single state owned organisation which is the fifth largest employer in the world needing 650,000 clinically qualified staff providing health care for a population of 67 million.
Two questions arising:
Q1 can they be sourced in UK as a "raw material"?
Q2 does UK have the facilities to "process" the "raw material"?

"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
« Reply #786 on: June 28, 2016, 03:25:04 PM »
It's obvious, stephen, that criminals from any part of the European mainland are an additional burden this country doesn't need and is better off without.

Have to go now, need to get some work done.

We can't have all these Johnny Foreigner Burgulah types putting the English Burgulahs out of work by fencing the swag at cut rates can we... @)(++(*
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
« Reply #787 on: June 28, 2016, 03:29:52 PM »
I haven't seen any points from you in favour of remaining within the EU.

Try reading.

Now if it helps, even though you will have been told this or already know it.

We have benefitted from foreign investors/companies coming to the UK, because of our access to the single market and with beneficial tax arrangements and grants for doing so.

Why jeopardise that.

Note Branson's comments earlier.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2016, 04:05:09 PM by stephen25000 »

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
« Reply #788 on: June 28, 2016, 03:31:43 PM »
It's obvious, stephen, that criminals from any part of the European mainland are an additional burden this country doesn't need and is better off without.

Have to go now, need to get some work done.

Am I disagreeing with you as regards criminals ?

Offline John

Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
« Reply #789 on: June 28, 2016, 04:46:51 PM »
Quote
A picture of an NHS surgical team who come from around the European Union has been shared thousands of times online.

The photo, titled "We are Europe!", shows three scrub nurses from Spain, an Irish radiographer, a German consultant anaesthetist, a Greek urology specialist registrar and a British Pakistani consultant urologist.

Junaid Masood, who posted the picture while working at Homerton University Hospital in east London, said immigration is "the backbone" of the NHS.

The locum consultant urologist wrote: "Today we have been hard at work improving people's lives! This is what our friends from Europe do for the NHS."

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/what-immigration-really-means-to-britain-a7106166.html

Why is immigration the backbone of the NHS?     Why are hospitals in other regions of the UK not filled with foreigners?
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
« Reply #790 on: June 28, 2016, 05:26:27 PM »
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/what-immigration-really-means-to-britain-a7106166.html

Why is immigration the backbone of the NHS?     Why are hospitals in other regions of the UK not filled with foreigners?

Cite.

How many foreign nationals work in the N.H.S. ?

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
« Reply #791 on: June 28, 2016, 05:55:45 PM »
http://www.exodus2013.co.uk/on-the-buses-west-indian-migration-after-wwii/

http://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/united-kingdom-reluctant-country-immigration

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/uk/2002/race/short_history_of_immigration.stm

"The booming UK economy proved an attractive destination for many A8 citizens. Together with restrictions elsewhere in Europe, high unemployment at home, favorable exchange rates, and pent-up demand, a wave of immigration was unleashed".

"The report estimated the size of the illegally resident population at 430,000, based on census data from 2001. That number is about 9 percent of the 4.9 million foreign born in 2001 and less than 1 percent of the total UK population".
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
« Reply #792 on: June 28, 2016, 06:08:31 PM »
We have Brexit ?

Nothing has been agreed yet and until it is assumptions of control of immigration will continue to be hyperbole.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2016, 02:13:49 AM by John »

Offline Angelo222

Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
« Reply #793 on: June 28, 2016, 06:09:20 PM »
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/what-immigration-really-means-to-britain-a7106166.html

Why is immigration the backbone of the NHS?     Why are hospitals in other regions of the UK not filled with foreigners?

Because our doctors and nurses are all pissing off to Canada, New Zealand and Australia leaving their tuition debts behind them.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: UK votes for #BrExit from the EU. 52% Leave - 48% Stay.
« Reply #794 on: June 28, 2016, 06:10:40 PM »
Because our doctors and nurses are all pissing off to Canada, New Zealand and Australia leaving their tuition debts behind them.

You can cite the numbers pissing off ?