Author Topic: McCanns appeal to the European Court of Human Rights  (Read 531791 times)

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Offline G-Unit

Re: McCanns appeal to the European Court of Human Rights
« Reply #1470 on: June 20, 2018, 03:05:45 PM »
In my opinion if it was possible for him to retain the rank and privilege he enjoyed as a member of the PJ while drawing the pension he had worked for albeit two years earlier than he had perhaps hoped he did indeed continue to be governed by the rules of being a former member of a public body.

In my opinion he at least owed some discretion.

Perhaps you should tell the Portuguese what you think? They might even be interested, but I doubt it.
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Offline G-Unit

Re: McCanns appeal to the European Court of Human Rights
« Reply #1471 on: June 20, 2018, 03:09:40 PM »
not only didn't I miss it I pointed out to Anne Gueddes that the transaltion was wrong and she agreed with me...the report used the word comprovar which means demonstrate rather than provar which means prove

I think we all know what he meant; their innocence had been neither proved nor demonstrated, despite Duarte's claim that it had (277/1 again)
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Offline Mr Gray

Re: McCanns appeal to the European Court of Human Rights
« Reply #1472 on: June 20, 2018, 03:11:42 PM »
I think we all know what he meant; their innocence had been neither proved nor demonstrated, despite Duarte's claim that it had (277/1 again)
I disagree and we have been through this before...the lack of evidence against them would result ina n acquittal if it went to court and is evidence of their innocence

Offline Brietta

Re: McCanns appeal to the European Court of Human Rights
« Reply #1473 on: June 20, 2018, 03:21:44 PM »
Perhaps you should tell the Portuguese what you think? They might even be interested, but I doubt it.

I think they may probably be aware of it ... you appear to be the one with the problem regarding it or else why the hostility?
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: McCanns appeal to the European Court of Human Rights
« Reply #1474 on: June 20, 2018, 03:47:13 PM »
every profession is the same...some do it better than others


You were implying it was age related in the case of Portuguese judges.
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline misty

Re: McCanns appeal to the European Court of Human Rights
« Reply #1475 on: June 20, 2018, 03:48:32 PM »
Page one of the final report -  Type of crime UNKNOWN.

Can any find a single Portuguese media report which states that Robert Murat was anything other than cleared of this unknown crime?

Offline Mr Gray

Re: McCanns appeal to the European Court of Human Rights
« Reply #1476 on: June 20, 2018, 03:53:41 PM »

You were implying it was age related in the case of Portuguese judges.
.
I think it might be ...but I'm sure they will respect my freedom of speech

Offline Carana

Re: McCanns appeal to the European Court of Human Rights
« Reply #1477 on: June 20, 2018, 04:27:40 PM »
I agree.

It was, however, a diligence that should have been carried out and wasn't. Therefore the PJ were within their rights to request it. For them, the outcome was perhaps less important than the 'dotting of i's and crossing of t's' prior to archiving the case.

The refusals to attend by the witnesses handed the moral high ground to the Portuguese authorities. They were willing to keep on investigating.The friends and acquaintances of the McCanns were unwilling to cooperate with them.


Yes, I agree with quite a bit of that.

My impression is that Rebelo was a box-ticker - not out to "get" anyone or play at King Kong, just trying to quietly clear up what he could of the general mess within a very limited time. 

It was indeed a diligence that could be requested, possibly with no more intent than making sure that no one could complain that he'd ignored the possibility of organising one.

I can imagine that deciding not to attend wasn't appreciated - and some kind of reprimand was deemed appropriate. However, IMO, the prosecutor went a bit overboard on that one.

On the T9 + 1 side, I can also understand their suspicions. I'd be astonished if they weren't aware of a certain bizarre "reconstruction" in Amaral's only other major case as a coordinator and what that led to. Without the benefit of hindsight, they had no way of assessing whether Rebelo was fair and objective or not.

Russell apparently discovered (cf rog) that the date had been leaked to the media (I haven't seen this, so I've no way of verifying that). I've no idea whether he saw it personally, or whether someone simply told him. True or false, the media had stalked them outside their home and even at his place of work in anticipation of an imminent arrest  based on yet another half-baked leak.

They would presumably have been aware, by that time, that there was no way that attending it could lead to taking the investigation back to zero and follow up on leads that didn't involve the arguidos due to time constraints.

Rightly or wrongly, I can well imagine that they feared being paraded under the media projectors to instructions according to some pre-ordained scenario, and somehow being "stitched up", and made arguidos themselves for one reason or another.  In that sense, their question of "how will this help find Madeleine?" seems valid to me.

If they were indeed already suspicious, I can also imagine how they may have interpreted the request NOT to bring their children as hardly appeasing:
2 - There is no need for the witnesses to be accompanied by their children. For efficiency and celerity purposes, we indeed request that the children don't accompany their parents;
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RE_ENACTMENT.htm

So, if indeed 277/2 is the correct interpretation, they are no longer suspects in the investigations in either country, but because they are no longer arguidos, there is no presumption of innocence protection.

Does that therefore leave them in a limbo land in which they have no legal redress over perpetual accusations of unproven criminal activity?



« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 04:34:48 PM by Carana »

Offline jassi

Re: McCanns appeal to the European Court of Human Rights
« Reply #1478 on: June 20, 2018, 04:34:17 PM »

Yes, I agree with quite a bit of that.

My impression is that Rebelo was a box-ticker - not out to "get" anyone or play at King Kong, just trying to quietly clear up what he could of the general mess within a very limited time. 

It was indeed a diligence that could be requested, possibly with no more intent than making sure that no one could complain that he'd ignored the possibility of organising one.

I can imagine that deciding not to attend wasn't appreciated - and some kind of reprimand was deemed appropriate. However, IMO, the prosecutor went a bit overboard on that one.

On the T9 + 1 side, I can also understand their suspicions. I'd be astonished if they weren't aware of a certain bizarre "reconstruction" in Amaral's only other major case as a coordinator and what that led to. Without the benefit of hindsight, they had no way of assessing whether Rebelo was fair and objective or not.

Russell apparently discovered (cf rog) that the date had been leaked to the media (I haven't seen this, so I've no way of verifying that). I've no idea whether he saw it personally, or whether someone simply told him. True or false, the media had been stalked outside their home and even at his place of work in anticipation of an imminent arrest  based on yet another half-baked leak.

They would presumably have been aware, by that time, that there was no way that attending it could lead to taking the investigation back to zero and follow up on leads that didn't involve the arguidos due to time constraints.

Rightly or wrongly, I can well imagine that they feared being paraded under the media projectors to instructions according to some pre-ordained scenario, and somehow being "stitched up", and made arguidos themselves for one reason or another.  In that sense, their question of "how will this help find Madeleine?" seems valid to me.

If they were indeed already suspicious, I can also imagine how they may have interpreted the request NOT to bring their children as hardly appeasing:
2 - There is no need for the witnesses to be accompanied by their children. For efficiency and celerity purposes, we indeed request that the children don't accompany their parents;
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RE_ENACTMENT.htm

So, if indeed 277/2 is the correct interpretation, they are no longer suspects in the investigations in either country, but because they are no longer arguidos, there is no presumption of innocence protection..

Does that therefore leave them in a limbo land in which they have no legal redress over perpetual accusations of unproven criminal activity?

Very likely.  Life can be such a bummer sometimes.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Carana

Re: McCanns appeal to the European Court of Human Rights
« Reply #1479 on: June 20, 2018, 04:38:30 PM »
Very likely.  Life can be such a bummer sometimes.

Indeed.

No need for mods to attempt to moderate defamatory comment then. If you're not a suspect in a crime, then it's fair game for anyone to accuse anyone of munching on newborn kittens for breakfast.

Where's the limit?


Offline slartibartfast

Re: McCanns appeal to the European Court of Human Rights
« Reply #1480 on: June 20, 2018, 04:49:15 PM »
I disagree and we have been through this before...the lack of evidence against them would result ina n acquittal if it went to court and is evidence of their innocence

Their innocence or guilt has not been subject to test. The only reason it came into the SC judgment was because their team claimed they had been cleared, a fairly bad move IMO.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline jassi

Re: McCanns appeal to the European Court of Human Rights
« Reply #1481 on: June 20, 2018, 04:58:50 PM »
Indeed.

No need for mods to attempt to moderate defamatory comment then. If you're not a suspect in a crime, then it's fair game for anyone to accuse anyone of munching on newborn kittens for breakfast.

Where's the limit?

You may not intend it but you sound a little bitter
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Carana

Re: McCanns appeal to the European Court of Human Rights
« Reply #1482 on: June 20, 2018, 04:59:00 PM »
Their innocence or guilt has not been subject to test. The only reason it came into the SC judgment was because their team claimed they had been cleared, a fairly bad move IMO.

But in a more general sense, if none of us here are currently officially suspects in some crime or other, is it ok to have a free-for-all accusing each other of whatever comes into our heads?

Offline slartibartfast

Re: McCanns appeal to the European Court of Human Rights
« Reply #1483 on: June 20, 2018, 05:12:40 PM »
But in a more general sense, if none of us here are currently officially suspects in some crime or other, is it ok to have a free-for-all accusing each other of whatever comes into our heads?

Not a free for all, just someone involved in the investigation writing what the investigation thought up to a certain point.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: McCanns appeal to the European Court of Human Rights
« Reply #1484 on: June 20, 2018, 05:42:09 PM »
Their innocence or guilt has not been subject to test. The only reason it came into the SC judgment was because their team claimed they had been cleared, a fairly bad move IMO.
If they have not been cleared, then neither has Murat, agreed?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly