Author Topic: McCanns appeal to the European Court of Human Rights  (Read 531925 times)

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Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: McCanns appeal to the European Court of Human Rights
« Reply #2085 on: September 29, 2018, 06:08:01 PM »
Don't knock it until you have tried it :) ... in my opinion any 'restoration' of the type of Portuguese justice which was meted out to Madeleine's parents would be an improvement ... or more likely should never have been started just as a different book should have been written.


I think you are wrong that there will be no knock on effect to Amaral should Kate and Gerry be successful in the European Court of Human Rights ... as I think they may very well be.

In my opinion should Madeleine's parents win their case it will be an internationally public demonstration that in judging one man's 'right' to trample on the rights of others the Portuguese judges have brought their and his native land into disrepute.

No mean feat! and it will probably be a lot simpler to restore the elderly lady's work on that fresco than to restore Portugal's reputation in the eyes of the world if and when the case is found against them.

You being from Ecosse have no doubt heard of String Driven Thing.
From their "Regent Street Incident" : "I have heard it all before said a body from the floor........"
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: McCanns appeal to the European Court of Human Rights
« Reply #2086 on: September 29, 2018, 06:09:55 PM »
All in your rather limited opinion... Imo..
The ECHR judgment if favourable.. As I expect... Will have far reaching effects

So you keep saying.
Tell us precisely what and how in your opinion.

eta

Yeah if an' if the dawg hadn't stopped running he would have caught the hare.
an' if a sewing machine had bigger wheels it might be a car
any more ifs and buts?
« Last Edit: September 29, 2018, 06:13:21 PM by Alice Purjorick »
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Mr Gray

Re: McCanns appeal to the European Court of Human Rights
« Reply #2087 on: September 29, 2018, 06:11:40 PM »
You being from Ecosse have no doubt heard of String Driven Thing.
From their "Regent Street Incident" : "I have heard it all before said a body from the floor........"

What we have is sceptics posting opinion... Such as Angelo... Without any evidence to support it.  Sceptics claim the, application will or had been rejected but never suply any reasoned argument to support their view

Offline Mr Gray

Re: McCanns appeal to the European Court of Human Rights
« Reply #2088 on: September 29, 2018, 06:14:37 PM »
So you keep saying.
Tell us precisely what and how in your opinion.
What do you think the effect wil be if it is judged that amarals book has violated the McCann's human rights and that the Portuguese courts, have supported this violation


From what I have, seen the court will look at what evidence amaral has, to make these claims..
What do you think the effect will be if it's shown there us no evidence to support these  claims...
From what I have, seen the court will look if amaral has presented a, balanced view of the evidence

All of that does not look good for amaral and portugal.. Imo
« Last Edit: September 29, 2018, 06:43:26 PM by Davel »

Offline Mr Gray

Re: McCanns appeal to the European Court of Human Rights
« Reply #2089 on: September 29, 2018, 07:03:58 PM »
From what I have seen the ECHR will look at the, evidence that supports the allegations made by amaral..... So for the first time the evidence against the McCann's, will be assessed by a court... The McCann's must feel confident Re the evidence to go to the ECHR

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: McCanns appeal to the European Court of Human Rights
« Reply #2090 on: September 29, 2018, 08:03:36 PM »
From what I have seen the ECHR will look at the, evidence that supports the allegations made by amaral..... So for the first time the evidence against the McCann's, will be assessed by a court... The McCann's must feel confident Re the evidence to go to the ECHR


There is a lot of "from what I have seen" but no mention of precisely what it is you have seen.
First off what is the ECtHR being asked to rule on? Do you know? Have you had sight of the application?
The Supreme Court can only rule on points of law not points of fact. Points of fact which were dealt with by the court of appeal. Even the judge in the court of first instance was at pains to point out the veracity of the content of Sr Amaral's book was not being tried. Given that what was being tried in your opinion?
So the ECtHR will look at which of the ECHR Articles holds sway and was this ignored by the Supreme Court.
That is anybody's guess.
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Snowgirl

Re: McCanns appeal to the European Court of Human Rights
« Reply #2091 on: September 29, 2018, 08:08:02 PM »


There is a lot of "from what I have seen" but no mention of precisely what it is you have seen.
First off what is the ECtHR being asked to rule on? Do you know? Have you had sight of the application?
The Supreme Court can only rule on points of law not points of fact. Points of fact which were dealt with by the court of appeal. Even the judge in the court of first instance was at pains to point out the veracity of the content of Sr Amaral's book was not being tried. Given that what was being tried in your opinion?
So the ECtHR will look at which of the ECHR Articles holds sway and was this ignored by the Supreme Court.
That is anybody's guess.
Bib ,this is my understanding too ,  of what they will  do if in fact the application  is accepted .   

Offline Mr Gray

Re: McCanns appeal to the European Court of Human Rights
« Reply #2092 on: September 29, 2018, 08:25:59 PM »


There is a lot of "from what I have seen" but no mention of precisely what it is you have seen.
First off what is the ECtHR being asked to rule on? Do you know? Have you had sight of the application?
The Supreme Court can only rule on points of law not points of fact. Points of fact which were dealt with by the court of appeal. Even the judge in the court of first instance was at pains to point out the veracity of the content of Sr Amaral's book was not being tried. Given that what was being tried in your opinion?
So the ECtHR will look at which of the ECHR Articles holds sway and was this ignored by the Supreme Court.
That is anybody's guess.

I have posrted quite a lot on the forum to support my argument unlike others. The SC judgeemnt referred to a balance between freedom of speech and the right to reputaion...article 10 vs article 8........as that and the presumption of innocence is what the SC ruled on then its obvious that this is what the application will deal with. Ther is a whole list of cases ...article 10 vs article 8 on the ECHR website explaining how thw ECHR balance the two rights...again ive posted the link several times.

the SC did not look at the evidence...from what I have seen from the links provided the ECHR will look at the factual basis on which amaral makes his calims and if they are reasonable...they are obviously not...

it may be a guess to those who have not looked at the relevant law  and past cases as I have done...im not guessing....im using informed opinon...do abit of reserach and you will probably agree with me

Offline Mr Gray

Re: McCanns appeal to the European Court of Human Rights
« Reply #2093 on: September 29, 2018, 08:28:18 PM »
Bib ,this is my understanding too ,  of what they will  do if in fact the application  is accepted .   

again...can you give me a reason why it will not be acceoted or are you just guessing. The post you posted here from CMOMM was basically laughable...it posted two cases ...neither relavent in the slightest

Offline Mr Gray

Re: McCanns appeal to the European Court of Human Rights
« Reply #2094 on: September 29, 2018, 08:35:51 PM »
Ageyevy v. Russia
18 April 2013
In 2008 the applicants, a married couple, adopted two small children (a boy and a girl).
Following an incident in March 2009 in which the boy was badly burnt at home and had
to go to hospital for treatment, the authorities took the children into care as they
suspected abuse. The mother complained in particular that the Russian courts had failed
to protect her reputation in defamation proceedings she had instituted in respect of
media reports describing her alleged ill-treatment of her son.
The Court held that there had been a violation of Article 8 (right to respect for private
life) of the Convention on account of the Russian courts’ failure to protect the mother’s
right to reputation in the defamation proceedings against the media company concerned,
as it was not convinced that the reasons advanced by the courts regarding the protection
of the freedom of expression of the media company had outweighed the mother’s rights
to have her reputation and right to the presumption of innocence safeguarded. It was in
particular not evident that the domestic courts in the defamation proceedings had
attached any importance to the right to the presumption of innocence. Nor had they
examined closely whether the journalists had acted in good faith and had provided
reliable and precise information in accordance with the ethics of journalism. Moreover,
even though nothing in the case-file suggested that the journalists had not been acting
in good faith, they had obviously failed to take the necessary steps to report the incident
in an objective and rigorous manner, trying instead either to exaggerate or oversimplify
the underlying reality.




there you are again

Offline Montclair

Re: McCanns appeal to the European Court of Human Rights
« Reply #2095 on: September 29, 2018, 08:36:09 PM »
The application to have the SC judgeemnt overturned covers that

The ECHR is not an appeals court and does not overturn rulings made in national courts. The McCanns case will be against the state of Portugal, not against Gonçalo Amaral or the book or the other 3 defendants.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: McCanns appeal to the European Court of Human Rights
« Reply #2096 on: September 29, 2018, 08:42:48 PM »
The ECHR is not an appeals court and does not overturn rulings made in national courts. The McCanns case will be against the state of Portugal, not against Gonçalo Amaral or the book or the other 3 defendants.
Then why is GA waiting to hear the outcome before suing the McCanns?
« Last Edit: September 29, 2018, 08:47:18 PM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline Mr Gray

Re: McCanns appeal to the European Court of Human Rights
« Reply #2097 on: September 29, 2018, 08:43:14 PM »
The ECHR is not an appeals court and does not overturn rulings made in national courts. The McCanns case will be against the state of Portugal, not against Gonçalo Amaral or the book or the other 3 defendants.

I think most understand that...weve moved on a bit....it may not be against amaral but the courts decision will involve an investigation into amarals claims and the veracity of them...as there is basically no evidence to support his claims I cant see the ECHR supporting his rights under article 10 as teh SC did

Offline jassi

Re: McCanns appeal to the European Court of Human Rights
« Reply #2098 on: September 29, 2018, 08:44:26 PM »
Then whay is GA waiting to hear the outcome before suing the McCanns?

Maybe he's waiting to see if they are worth suing. No good going after someone without 2 beans to rub together.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Montclair

Re: McCanns appeal to the European Court of Human Rights
« Reply #2099 on: September 29, 2018, 08:45:12 PM »
I have posrted quite a lot on the forum to support my argument unlike others. The SC judgeemnt referred to a balance between freedom of speech and the right to reputaion...article 10 vs article 8........as that and the presumption of innocence is what the SC ruled on then its obvious that this is what the application will deal with. Ther is a whole list of cases ...article 10 vs article 8 on the ECHR website explaining how thw ECHR balance the two rights...again ive posted the link several times.

the SC did not look at the evidence...from what I have seen from the links provided the ECHR will look at the factual basis on which amaral makes his calims and if they are reasonable...they are obviously not...

it may be a guess to those who have not looked at the relevant law  and past cases as I have done...im not guessing....im using informed opinon...do abit of reserach and you will probably agree with me

Is this the same informed opinion and research you used when you insisted that Gonçalo Amaral would not be able to appeal against the ruling which awarded 500.000 € + interest to the McCanns.

Is it obvious from reading the acordão that the SC did examine the evidence when making their decision and they also used rulings by the ECHR to support it.