Brexit has well and truly begun!

[G-Unit]

Hmmm. The referendum was advisory.

If the government had done its homework BEFORE a) the referendum and b) before triggering Article 50, the UK might not be in its current mess.

The referendum wasn't legally binding, but the government promised to implement the result in leaflets sent to every household. Ignoring the will of the people as Parliament is currently doing may be legal, but it's clearly not moral imo.

[John]

The referendum wasn't legally binding, but the government promised to implement the result in leaflets sent to every household. Ignoring the will of the people as Parliament is currently doing may be legal, but it's clearly not moral imo.

I think Parliament has lost all credibility now, a general election is probably the only way forward.

[Sunny]

I think Parliament has lost all credibility now, a general election is probably the only way forward.

Who would you vote for though John?

Personally I don't like any of them.

[Carana]

It seems to me that it's time for some truth. Those who don't know should say so. Those with a vested interest should reveal it. Those taking idealogical positions should admit it.

The electorate has been subjected to so much spin and misinformation in recent years that they don't believe what anyone says any more. Therefore they made their own minds up during the referendum campaign and voted for what they wanted.

The electorate was then castigated for the way they voted. Those whose job it was to inform didn't blame themselves for dailing to convince, they blamed the voters for failing to understand. They were told they were too stupid, too racist or too old to know what they were doing.

I think the voters remember that and won't be swayed by those people in future either. I'm not a Conservative but I've seen two recently speaking calmly and, I believe, sincerely; Esther McVey and Jacob Rees Mogg. If another vote becomes a reality it is my opinion that the voters will listen to those who are calm, sincere and reassuring, not the prophets of doom.

I'd agree with most of that except that I'm not at all impressed by either Esther McVey or Jacob Rees Mogg (nor am I by a long list of other politicians for that matter).

[Carana]

I think Parliament has lost all credibility now, a general election is probably the only way forward.

How would a general election improve the general chaos with only 10 weeks to go until D-day?

Irrespective of who one may vote for in less turbulent times, who else could steer their way through the current Brexit clusterf**k? Extremists on either side of the political spectrum are the last thing the UK needs right now, IMO.

[Venturi Swirl]

It's not triggering Article 50 that created the mess, it's the fact that instead of preparing for leaving the EU the government spent the time trying to make a deal. Why? No-one asked them to do that.

So everyone who voted to Leave wanted to do so immediately and without any negotiation, or to have their cake and eat it?  Do you have a cite for this?

[Venturi Swirl]

I think Parliament has lost all credibility now, a general election is probably the only way forward.

And in its place...?  Who is looking forward to a Brexit under a Labour government?  Anyone?

[Carana]

The referendum wasn't legally binding, but the government promised to implement the result in leaflets sent to every household. Ignoring the will of the people as Parliament is currently doing may be legal, but it's clearly not moral imo.

Personally, I don't find the lie on the side of the bus, nor waving the silly red flag that 70+ million Turks were about to invade the UK, very moral either.

[Venturi Swirl]

Personally, I don't find the lie on the side of the bus, nor waving the silly red flag that 70+ million Turks were about to invade the UK, very moral either.

Did you watch “An Uncivil War”?  It was terrific, and made you realise what a bunch of self-interested, reckless shysters were behind the Leave campaign.  IMO.

[G-Unit]

Personally, I don't find the lie on the side of the bus, nor waving the silly red flag that 70+ million Turks were about to invade the UK, very moral either.

If you think your fellow citizens were taken in by the antics of either side you are sadly mistaken in my opinion. Don't underestimate the intelligence of the voters as the politicians did (and some still do).

I think our policians may need remedial English teaching. The man responsible for inventing the 'Brexit' word was just interviewed; a former adviser to Cameron. He was asked why he thought Parliament was so reluctant to leave the EU, given that the electorate voted to leave.

His answer was that 'no-one knows what 'out' means. It seems our politicians are unable to grasp that 'out' is the opposite of 'in'. It doesn't mean out of some things but still in others, or partly out but not just yet.

[Venturi Swirl]

If you think your fellow citizens were taken in by the antics of either side you are sadly mistaken in my opinion. Don't underestimate the intelligence of the voters as the politicians did (and some still do).

I think our policians may need remedial English teaching. The man responsible for inventing the 'Brexit' word was just interviewed; a former adviser to Cameron. He was asked why he thought Parliament was so reluctant to leave the EU, given that the electorate voted to leave.

His answer was that 'no-one knows what 'out' means. It seems our politicians are unable to grasp that 'out' is the opposite of 'in'. It doesn't mean out of some things but still in others, or partly out but not just yet.

But there are lots of versions of Out.  It’s disingenuous to pretend otherwise.  When the referendum was held, all the leavers I spoke to expected there to be a deal like Norway’s or Canada’s or Switzerland’s, none of them expected to sever ties immediately with no attempt at a negotiated deal.  Where do you get off on the idea that you know what was in the minds of everyone who voted to leave?

[misty]

Corbyn tables vote of no confidence following catastrophic loss in Deal vote.

For: 202  Against: 432. (Majority: 230)

Who's going to get us out of this mess?

[Venturi Swirl]

Corbyn tables vote of no confidence following catastrophic loss in Deal vote.

For: 202  Against: 432. (Majority: 230)

Who's going to get us out of this mess?

Corbyn.   

[Carana]

Did you watch “An Uncivil War”?  It was terrific, and made you realise what a bunch of self-interested, reckless shysters were behind the Leave campaign.  IMO.

Not yet. Was it on Ch4? I watched the undercover Ch4 one about Cambridge Analytica. Quite something.

[Carana]

But there are lots of versions of Out.  It’s disingenuous to pretend otherwise.  When the referendum was held, all the leavers I spoke to expected there to be a deal like Norway’s or Canada’s or Switzerland’s, none of them expected to sever ties immediately with no attempt at a negotiated deal.  Where do you get off on the idea that you know what was in the minds of everyone who voted to leave?

I distinctly remember being told that various EU countries would be knocking down doors to keep UK trade. The EU will certainly be worse off post-Brexit, but the UK will be the biggest loser. EU countries can diversify tommorow to other members plus all the non-EU countries with which deals have been made.

The UK will have to start from scratch. And trade deals take years, not months. Even the relatively simple Canada deal took 6 years to negotiate and 2 to ratify, IIRC.