Author Topic: Why is there so much support for Leonor Cipriano from McCann supporters?  (Read 228367 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Carana

Re: Why is there so much support for Leonor Cipriano from McCann supporters?
« Reply #1935 on: January 26, 2016, 04:24:52 PM »
A few threads at random...


http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1722.msg52234#msg52234


Or

Paulo Sargento: «Public Ministry Cannot Dismiss the Blanket’s Disappearance»

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1722.msg52355#msg52355
« Last Edit: January 26, 2016, 04:27:07 PM by Carana »

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Why is there so much support for Leonor Cipriano from McCann supporters?
« Reply #1936 on: January 26, 2016, 04:27:13 PM »
I believe that if PPC is convicted for many of the offences he is charged with, lawyers will be jumping at the chance to pursue claims for wrongful conviction on behalf of Leonor. I wonder how much all those years in jail would be worth in compensation?

In UK it is capped at £500k max for less than ten years inside and £1MM max  for more than ten years inside.
Do Portugal run such a scheme?
The Grauniad ran an article last year about how the UK is now reluctant to pay out compensation for miscarriages of justice. Probably because there are so many over here and only "high profile" cases are reported on (imo).
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Why is there so much support for Leonor Cipriano from McCann supporters?
« Reply #1937 on: January 26, 2016, 04:32:27 PM »
In UK it is capped at £500k max for less than ten years inside and £1MM max  for more than ten years inside.
Do Portugal run such a scheme?
The Grauniad ran an article last year about how the UK is now reluctant to pay out compensation for miscarriages of justice. Probably because there are so many over here and only "high profile" cases are reported on (imo).

it seems there are none in portugal...or they admit none

Offline Carana

Re: Why is there so much support for Leonor Cipriano from McCann supporters?
« Reply #1938 on: January 26, 2016, 04:43:09 PM »
I believe that if PPC is convicted for many of the offences he is charged with, lawyers will be jumping at the chance to pursue claims for wrongful conviction on behalf of Leonor. I wonder how much all those years in jail would be worth in compensation?

I don't think his potential convictions on anything else will have any bearing on the Cipriano case. That just doesn't seem to be how PT law works. It may not in other jurisdictions, either.

I posted some of the code articles about this yesterday, from memory.



Offline Jean-Pierre

Re: Why is there so much support for Leonor Cipriano from McCann supporters?
« Reply #1939 on: January 26, 2016, 04:48:11 PM »
Paulo Sargento apparently tried.

He was the eminent clinical psychologist who testified that Leonor had psycopathic tendencies.

http://www.tvi24.iol.pt/sociedade/ultimas-noticias/leonor-cipriano-tem-caracteristicas-psicopaticas

He appears to be incidentally the person in charge of Amaral's defence fund.

http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/2015/10/sufficient.html

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6716.0

He appears to have tried to reopen the PT investigation into the McCann case, but apparently without much success.

Seemingly the fact that Kate admitted to having washed Cuddlecat because it ponged after 3 months of having clutched it in her hand wasn't deemed to be sufficient evidence to reopen the case, despite the eminent psychologist's view.


Psychologist wants to reopen the Maddie case 24horas

Paulo Sargento
Prosecutor receives the request of Paulo Sargento

By Duarte Levy
18 September 2009
Thanks to Mercedes for Portuguese-Spanish translation,
and Dr Martin Roberts for Spanish-English translation

The man who reconstructed the disappearance of Maddie in 3D does not want the case to die

Public Prosecutor General (PGR), Pinto Monteiro, yesterday received yet another petition for the re-opening of the process in relation to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, this one authored by Forensic Psychologist Paulo Sargento.

Besides the petition sent today to the PGR, Ana Lima, advisor to Pinto Monteiro, confirmed to 24horas that an identical initiative had already been taken by a Spanish citizen, "but without prompting anything of investigative interest, for which reason it was archived."

In the recent document - to which 24horas has had access - Sargento bases his petition on the premise that "the couple were not correctly investigated" by either the Portuguese judiciary or the English authorities following the departure of Goncalo Amaral from the PJ's Department of Criminal Investigation in Portimao.

According to the psychologist, author of a 3-D video simulation based on the testimonies concerning the night of May 3rd 2007 - when Maddie is considered to have been abducted - the McCann couple were never interrogated with regard to the circumstances which prompted the washing of cuddle cat - a pink soft toy belonging to the little girl: "It would be of interest to know if Kate and Gerry were informed of the arrival of the English dogs, when and by whom." said Sargento to 24horas.

Before the dogs arrived

For the psychologist, it is revealing that Kate should wash cuddle cat before the two dogs, 'Eddie and Keela' - trained to detect cadaver odour and the scent of human blood - had arrived in Praia da Luz.

"Today I washed cuddle cat. I hoped not to have to do that until Madeleine's return", Kate wrote in her personal diary which she began after the disappearance of the little girl from the apartment the family occupied in Praia da Luz in the Algarve. In the diary, Maddie's mother justifies her action on the grounds that the soft toy was "a little dirty and smelly", an attitude the psychologist finds strange: "It doesn’t conform to the behaviour expected of a mother in such a situation."

"I determined that the washing of cuddle cat, several days before the arrival of the investigative dogs, as well as the motive for such an act, were NOT made the subject of inquiry within the overall framework of the investigation!" wrote Sargento in the petition sent to Pinto Monteiro, emphasising the fact that 'Eddie and Keela', the dogs brought in from England, had effected a "positive identification of cadaver odour on the soft toy, but not on the bed, nor the sheets where it was found by the investigators."

Besides this formal petition for the re-opening of the process, Ana Lima explained to 24horas that the PGR had received "dozens of e-mails and letters, usually anonymous" concerning the Maddie case, although until now they have had "no judicial relevance, failing to point specifically to concrete and credible facts."

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id227.html

Ah - Duarte Levy Again

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3835.0

First post. 

Offline Brietta

Re: Why is there so much support for Leonor Cipriano from McCann supporters?
« Reply #1940 on: January 26, 2016, 05:25:08 PM »
I don't think his potential convictions on anything else will have any bearing on the Cipriano case. That just doesn't seem to be how PT law works. It may not in other jurisdictions, either.

I posted some of the code articles about this yesterday, from memory.

I'm not sure if he is going to get off with only a rap over the knuckles if found guilty of what is some very heavy stuff.  It seems to me the most outrage has been generated by the football charges.
We will just have to wait till April when the judgement is due.  Nothing will surprise me.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Carana

Re: Why is there so much support for Leonor Cipriano from McCann supporters?
« Reply #1941 on: January 26, 2016, 05:28:29 PM »
I'm not sure if he is going to get off with only a rap over the knuckles if found guilty of what is some very heavy stuff.  It seems to me the most outrage has been generated by the football charges.
We will just have to wait till April when the judgement is due.  Nothing will surprise me.


I don't see how that would have any bearing on the Cipriano case.

He already quietly got a 120-day sanction over that case and was invited to take compulsory retirement.

Offline Carana

Re: Why is there so much support for Leonor Cipriano from McCann supporters?
« Reply #1942 on: January 26, 2016, 05:58:24 PM »
Ah - Duarte Levy Again

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3835.0

First post.

But with what would appear to be a direct quote from an article apparently dating from 1.5 years after the disappearance:

"I determined that the washing of cuddle cat, several days before the arrival of the investigative dogs, as well as the motive for such an act, were NOT made the subject of inquiry within the overall framework of the investigation!" wrote Sargento in the petition sent to Pinto Monteiro, emphasising the fact that 'Eddie and Keela', the dogs brought in from England, had effected a "positive identification of cadaver odour on the soft toy, but not on the bed, nor the sheets where it was found by the investigators."




He may have missed this bit in Grime's report:


Eddie & Keela Martin Grime Report

August 2007

Therefore in this particular case, as no human remains were located, the only
alert indications that may become corroborated are those that the CSI dog
indicated by forensic laboratory analysis.

09-Processo 9 pages 2473 to 2483

He also had this view on the pink blanket:

Paulo Sargento: «Public Ministry Cannot Dismiss the Blanket’s Disappearance»

Paulo Sargento, the psychologist which usually comments on the TV aspects related to the Maddie case, explained to «SP» the importance that this blanket had to the British child : “The blankets, toys, and other objects acquire a special meaning for children at early stages of their lives. Dr. Winnicot, a famous paediatrician, conceived a designation of transitional objects (most times, plush toys, small blankets, diapers, etc...) which attain some special characteristics to children. Has I have been saying, this objects that the paediatrician adjectived of transitional, are invested of a particular passion by the children, even some addiction (in the sense of affective dependency), since they possess symbolic characteristics of security, comfort, care and other qualities which emanate from the maternal figure.”

For Paulo Sargento, the thesis that Gonçalo Amaral revealed at first hand to «SP» that the blanket could have been used in a funerary ceremony at the Luz chapel “is very interesting”.

And he adds: “In reality, when the McCanns went to Oprah’s Show [video excerpt here], the blanket was mentioned. At a given moment, when Oprah tells Kate that she heard her mention a blanket several times, Kate argued that a mother who misses a child always wants to know if she is comfortable, if she is warm, and added, referring to Maddie, that sometimes she asked herself if the person who had taken her would cover her up with her little blanket (but the blanket was on the bed after Maddie, supposedly, disappeared!!!).

Well, that blanket is missing. Nobody knows where it is. But, this brief dialogue between Oprah and Kate is bizarre and looks like a slip. It seems that blanket is a word that shouldn’t have emerged under that circumstance because it didn’t find a meaning that would fit into the conversation, and the justification was very confusing”.


http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/07/maddies-blanket-missing-from-ocean-club.html

If he'd checked, he might have realised that the GNR dog handlers had taken the blanket.

...They began searching with the dogs from the main entrance to the apartment, having given the blanket to his dog Numi to smell and begin to search.

 Witness Statement

Date: 2007-05-16

Carlos Manuel Carvalho Lacão
05-Processos Vol V Pages 1335-1337